It's great for your health and⏤I exercise⏤it's great for your heart, but absolutely not...

它對你的健康很好，我也會運動，它對心臟很好，但絕不⋯⋯

If your goal is weight loss, you have to do something about changing your diet.

如果你的目標是減重，你得在改變飲食這方面著手。

- Exercise doesn't help weight loss. - No.

- 運動對於減重沒有幫助。 - 沒有。

Well, we've got a fitness group among some of my friends, about 10 of us in it,

嗯，我跟幾個朋友組了一個健身小組，大概有 10 個人，

and we've been tracking how often we work out and how frequently we work out and the workouts that we do.

我們一直在記錄我們各自的健身次數、頻率和健身方式。

And one of the things I have to say is, pretty much no one in the group has lost any weight.

我不的不說的一件事是，小組裡幾乎沒有人減掉任何重量。

We've been doing this for a year.

我們已經持續一年了。

And that kind of bucks what you would th⏤so, the only time that I lost weight was actually when I went on the keto... keto diet.

而那會有點抵抗——我唯一有減重的時候是我採用生酮飲食法時。

I went from 14 stone 8 to 13 stone 8 in roughly⏤in several weeks.

我在幾週內從 14 英石 8 磅減到 13 英石 8 磅。（譯註：英石為英國重量單位，一英石等於 6.35 公斤，一磅等於 453 克）

But exercise, and exercising for, almost religiously, for the last 2 and a half years, doesn't really seem to impact my weight at all in, you know, in the way that the fitness experts might tell me on Instagram.

我過去兩年半頻繁且規律地運動，但運動似乎完全沒有影響我的體重，不像 Instagram 上面的健身專家可能會跟我說的。

What's your stance on the role that exercise play... plays in weight loss?

對於運動在減重當中的角色，你的看法如何？

(It) Has very little role in weight loss.

它扮演了極小的角色。

All the studies⏤long-term studies⏤show it doesn't help weight loss, and it's been grossly exaggerated as an easy fix for our obesity problem.

而所有長期研究都顯示，它對於減重沒有幫助，並被嚴重誇大為解決我們肥胖問題的簡單方法。

- Exercise doesn't help weight loss. - No.

- 運動對於減重沒有幫助。 - 沒有。

All the studies show that.

所有研究結果都這樣。

The only caveat to that is if you have changed your diet, improved your diet, and you've lost some weight, maintaining some exercise does help prevent it going back up again.

那唯一但書就是，如果你必須改變飲食、改善飲食，並減了一些體重，持續運動的確可以幫你預防體重回彈。

But as⏤on its own, if you don't change your diet, it's of no use.

但它獨立存在時，如果你不改變飲食，就沒有用處。

And that's well-known, now, by all the obesity experts and all the studies.

而那目前在肥胖專家和研究中都是廣為所知的。

Does sugar make us fat? Is that the culprit?

糖分會讓我們變胖嗎？它是罪魁禍首嗎？

Is that one of the main things that's contributing to...

那是主要貢獻的一個東西⋯⋯

No, again, that's... that's reductionism, you know?

不，我重申，那是過度簡化，懂嗎？

But... the reason... the reason exercise doesn't work...

但是，運動沒效的原因是⋯⋯

It's important to realize this is because, we all know this, that, you know, you go for a walk, build up hunger before a meal.

意識到這點很重要，因為我們都知道在飯前去散步會堆積飢餓感。

That's what your parents told you, you know.

這是你父母跟你說的。

And everything about exercises is, after it, your body slows down, your metabolism slows down, and it tries to regain the energy that you've lost.

而任何運動後的一切都會讓你的身體減緩、新陳代謝會慢下來，你的身體會試著重新找回遺失的精力。

That's just our evolution.

這只是人類的演化。

And, so, that's why it's⏤you're not gonna... it's great for your health and, you know, I exercise; fantastic for your mood.

所以這就是你不會——運動對健康很好，我也會運動，它會提振你的心情。

It's great for your heart, anti-cancer, all kinds of things; we should all do it.

它對你的心臟很好、抗癌之類的，我們都該運動。

But absolutely not⏤if your goal is weight loss, you have to do something about changing your diet.

但絕不⋯⋯如果你的目標是減重，你得在改變飲食這方面著手。

And I think that's... that's the big⏤huge myth, particularly perpetuated by gyms and fitness apps and everything else.

而我想那是一個很大的迷思，被健身房、健身應用程式等所有東西強化延長。

It is complete nonsense.

它完全是胡說八道。

I read that you... when you looked at studies over 30 years and you looked at how many studies have been done on the relationship of exercise and weight versus things like sugar and weight,

我讀到你說⋯⋯當你觀察過去 30 多年的研究並看看有多少研究是針對運動和體重的關係，並對比糖分和體重關係的研究數量，

there was 12 more⏤12 times more studies done on the relationship of exercise and weight versus sugar and weight.

運動和體重關聯的研究比糖分和體重關聯的研究多出 12 倍。

And why... why is that? Why is there less research done on the latter?

為什麼會這樣？後者的研究為什麼會比較少？

I think that's the influence of governments and the food companies and the drink companies.

我覺得那受到政府、食品公司和飲料公司的影響。

So, a lot of the exercise research done in the last 20 years was sponsored by large corporations who wanted to make this link between exercise and weight loss

那麼，很多在過去 20 年間進行的運動研究都是由大企業贊助，他們想要做出運動和減重之間的連結，

so that they could continue to sell sugary, ultra-processed foods and drinks, and just say it's childhood obesity is because we... we don't have playgrounds and we don't encourage this.

讓他們可以繼續銷售含糖、過度加工的食物和飲品，並指稱那是年幼肥胖，因為我們沒有遊樂場而且不提倡運動。

And that's why the cokes and Pepsis are always there.

這就是為什麼可樂之類的飲料一直存在。

The Olympic⏤sponsoring Olympic events and associating themselves with sport.

會贊助奧林匹克之類的賽事並將自身與運動做連結。

And they gave hundreds of millions to various physiology departments, sports departments, nutrition departments to do research in this area.

它們貢獻了數億元給生理學、運動、營養學等單位以在這個領域做研究。

Basically, it was really hard to get anyone to do research into how sugary drinks make you gain weight or cause problems because they...

基本上，要找到任何人願意進行糖分讓人增重或是引起問題的研究是很困難的，因為他們⋯⋯

The amount of money for nutrition has been abysmally poor, you know, in... from... from governments.

營養領域從政府單位獲得的資新少得可憐。

And, that's why, you know, we⏤the only, the first-ever study of ultra-processed food in a controlled trial was only about 3 years ago, and it's been around for, you know, 30, 40 years.

這就是為什麼，你知道——大約 3 年前才出現首次對過度加工食品進行對照試驗的研究，而它已經存在了 30、40 年。

So, such is the power of that lobby that it... it doesn't necessarily distort the research in a, sort of, in an evil way,

這種遊說的力量就是這樣，它不一定是以邪惡的方式扭曲研究，

but they point it to make sure that the researchers are working in an area that they want people to work in, and distracting them,

但他們將研究人員導向他們希望人們工作的領域中，並分散他們的注意力，

keeping (them) away from talking about sugars or even artificial sweeteners, which, in my view, are nearly as bad, ' cause they're, sort of, you know, "hidden".

讓他們避不討論糖分或甚至人工甜味劑，這在我看來幾乎同樣糟糕，因為它們有點被隱蔽。

And deflecting us from the idea that, yes, giving kids sugary drinks or even artificial sweet drinks is gonna be bad for them and cause obesity.

這也轉移了我們的注意力，沒意識到給孩子含糖飲料或人工甜味飲料對他們不利並導致肥胖。

Wait, so, I'm... I've been... I've cut my... I cut out sugary drinks about a year ago; I still have the same brands, but I have the no sugar version.

等等，我已經超過一年不喝含糖飲料了，我還是會喝一樣的品牌，但是是買無糖版本。

Oh, dear.

喔，老天。

Oh, shit; what do you mean, "oh, dear"?

該死的，你說「喔，老天」是什麼意思？

All the... all the summary of the trials shows that if you take young adults, young adults and kids, and they were, say, on two cans of, you know, full-sugar sodas and you change them to the diet version,

所有實驗的結論都顯示，如果你找年輕人和小孩，他們假設一天喝兩罐全糖汽水，你把它們改成健怡版，

there's no real difference in... in weight or metabolic changes in their blood.

他們的體重或是血液當中的新陳代謝都沒有實質的差異。

You will go to the dentist less, so, you don't get as many fillings, but...

你看牙醫的次數會變少，所以不需要那麼常補牙，但⋯⋯

And, yet, you should be gaining "300 calories", right, if you were doing two cans a day.

然而，如果你一天喝兩罐健怡汽水，應該只會獲得「300 卡」，對吧？

So, it doesn't work out as it should do, and that's because of the extra... these chemicals are not inert.

所以它的效果並不會如預期一般，因為多出來的材料並非屬於惰性。

So, the sweeteners, in kids, they changed their... their brains to give them⏤they want more sweetness in their food, OK?

所以孩子們攝取的甜味劑會改變他們的大腦，讓他們想要在食物中獲得更多甜份。

So, it... it could reflect your wish for your... your late-night milk chocolate; who knows?

所以它可能會反映到你深夜對牛奶巧克力的渴望，誰知道呢？

It makes it very difficult to train kids to have more bitter foods or sour foods if they've got these artificial sweeteners in their diet all the time.

這讓我們難以訓練孩子們食用苦味或酸味的食物，尤其如果他們飲食中持續有這些人工甜味劑。

But they've now shown that all these sweeteners actually affect your gut microbes.

但是研究已經顯示這些甜味劑其實都會影響你的腸道菌群。

So, even stevia, you know, these, sort of, so-called healthy ones, have an effect on your gut microbes and they're not inert.

所以即便是甜菊之類所謂的健康甜味劑都對你的腸道菌群腸有影響，且不是惰性的。

So, we know that saccharin and sucralose also cause spikes in your blood sugar.

那麼，我們知道糖精和三氯蔗糖也會提升你的血糖。

When I did it, you know, have a trace, they're not supposed to⏤but they actually do things they're not supposed to.

當我去做追蹤時，它們不應該——它們其實會做不該做的事。

So, we know very little about these... these products, and my view is that they are harmful, probably not as bad as having the sugar, but they are absolutely not a health drink.

所以我們對這些產品的認識非常少，我的觀點是，他們是有害的，大概不會跟直接攝取糖分一樣遭，但絕對不是健康的飲料。

And we should be encouraging people to have, you know, teas and kombuchas and more bitter-tasting, interesting flavors and foods than just these ultra-sweet chemical concoctions.

我們應該鼓勵人們多飲用茶類和康普茶，還有苦味、特別的口味和食物，而不是這個超甜的化學混合物。

This sugar conglomerate that have been funding much of the research that points towards some of the things you're talking about there,

這種糖類聯合企業一直資助著許多研究，都導向你剛剛談論的論點，

that's also the conglomerate that wants us to believe the "calories in, calories out" approach.

那些聯合企業也希望我們相信「熱量攝取與排除」的手法。

Because if I just view every⏤all foods as kind of equal and on this, sort of, calorie number, then I can drink some of the sugary fizzery⏤fizzy drinks and some of the processed foods,

因為我如果只把每一項食品的熱量計算視為平等，讓我就可以攝取一切汽水和加工食品，

as long as I keep it within that, sort of, calorie deficit, I'll be fine.

只要我維持在熱量範圍內，就會無恙。

And, so, are they... is that sugar conglomerate⏤is the processed food conglomerate for the calorie model?

所以這些糖分聯合企業、加工食物聯合企業是支持熱量模型的嗎？

Absolutely.

絕對的。

They need that, right?

他們需要它，對吧？

They⏤absolutely vital, you know.

它們是絕對必要的。

Zero calories or one calorie, you know, on the can, that's what you see and,

不管是零卡或一卡，都是你可以在罐子上看到的，

you know, you're fooling people into thinking this is a healthy drink and, you know, if I used to have full coke or Pepsi and now having the diet version, I'm getting 300 calories less a day, I should lose weight.

你是在混淆視聽，讓人們以為這是健康的飲料，如果我過去是喝全糖可樂但現在喝健怡版，我每天都會少攝取 300 卡，就應該要減重。

If you love the "Diary of a CEO" brand and you watch this channel, please do me a huge favor, become part of the 15% of the viewers on this channel that have hit the subscribe button.

如果你喜歡 Diary of a CEO 這個品牌，也有在收看頻道，請幫我一個忙並成為 15% 已經點擊訂閱的頻道觀眾之一。

It helps us tremendously, and the bigger the channel gets, the bigger the guests.

那對我們會有極大幫助，而頻道越強大、來賓就會更大咖。