Name: 烏克蘭與德國進行 "坦誠 "會談，因為它推動了坦克的發展 - BBC新聞 (Ukraine has ‘frank’ talks with Germany as it pushes for tanks - BBC News)
Uploaded: 2023-01-23T17:00:51.000Z
Duration: 8 min 35 s

Ukraine's Defense Minister has said that he had a frank discussion with his German counterpart about German Leopard two tanks.

烏克蘭國防部長表示，他與德國國防部長就德國豹式二號坦克進行了坦誠的討論。

Germany has not yet decided whether to send the tanks to Ukraine or allow other countries to donate.

德國尚未決定是否將坦克送往烏克蘭或允許其他國家捐贈。

情態副詞

There's despite pressure on Berlin to act while President Zelensky says his country urgently needs modern weapons to push back the Russian invasion.

儘管柏林有采取行動的壓力，但澤倫斯基總統說他的國家迫切需要現代武器來擊退俄羅斯的入侵。

Yes, we will still have to fight for the supply of modern tanks.

是的，我們仍將不得不為現代坦克的供應而戰。

But every day we make it more obvious that there is no alternative that a decision about tanks must be made.

但是，我們每天都讓人更清楚地看到，沒有其他選擇，必須做出關於坦克的決定。

Germany's new Defense minister has denied blocking the use of its leopard tanks.

德國新任國防部長否認阻止其豹式坦克的使用。

He said that such a decision had to be carefully considered.

他說，這樣的決定必須經過仔細考慮。

Russia has warned that providing tanks would mark an extremely dangerous escalation.

俄羅斯警告說，提供坦克將標誌著一種極其危險的升級。

However, Ukraine's allies have agreed at a meeting at Ramstein Air base in Germany to supply more armored vehicles at defense systems and ammunition are europe correspondent, Jessica Parker has the details.

然而，烏克蘭的盟友在德國拉姆施泰因空軍基地舉行的會議上同意在防禦系統和彈藥方面提供更多的裝甲車，這是歐洲記者傑西卡-帕克的細節。

This is what Kiev wants but can't yet have german made leopard tanks to help defend and reclaim its territory from Russia Britain's gone first in sending western main battle tanks, but it's a fraction of what's being asked for.

這就是基輔想要的，但還不能擁有德國製造的豹式坦克，以幫助保衛和從俄羅斯手中奪回其領土 英國率先派出西方主戰坦克，但這只是要求的一小部分。

All of us can use thousands of wars in discussions, but I cannot put words instead of guns that are needed against Russian artillery.

我們所有人都可以在討論中使用數以千計的戰爭，但我不能用文字來代替對抗俄羅斯大炮的需要。

Defense chiefs have pledged fresh support but Berlin is still resisting pressure to release its leopard two's.

國防部長們已承諾提供新的支持，但柏林仍在抵制釋放其豹二的壓力。

It gets to decide where german made tanks can go, even those bought by other countries.

它可以決定德國製造的坦克可以去哪裡，甚至是那些被其他國家購買的坦克。

Minister why is Berlin so hesitant on this issue.

部長，為什麼柏林在這個問題上如此猶豫不決。

We are just very carefully in balance and all the proof and contrast, we are not talking just about delivering anything to anybody.

我們只是非常小心地在平衡，所有的證明和對比，我們不是在談論只是向任何人提供什麼。

These crowds in Berlin want Germany to do more, but the government has its eye on broader public opinion.

柏林的這些人群希望德國做得更多，但政府卻把目光投向了更廣泛的公眾輿論。

The country's World War II history still casts a long shadow.

這個國家的二戰歷史仍然投下了漫長的陰影。

While there are fears of escalation, they've not made a decision on the provision of leopard tanks.

雖然人們擔心局勢升級，但他們還沒有就提供豹式坦克做出決定。

What we're really focused on is making sure that Ukraine has a capability that it needs to be successful.

我們真正關注的是，確保烏克蘭擁有成功所需的能力。

The NATO military alliance is pressing a sense of urgency.

北約軍事聯盟正在壓迫一種緊迫感。

There is a need for support to Ukraine to enable them, not only to survive, but actually to retake territory to win this war.

有必要向烏克蘭提供支持，使他們不僅能夠生存，而且實際上能夠奪回領土，贏得這場戰爭。

But there's a lot of talk of course about a Russian spring offensive.

但當然有很多關於俄羅斯春季攻勢的討論。

But do you think Ukraine can take back territory this year?

但你認為烏克蘭今年能奪回領土嗎？

And that's the reason why NATO allies, our partners are providing significantly more support to Ukraine, a soviet era tank.

而這就是為什麼北約盟友，我們的合作伙伴正在向烏克蘭這個蘇聯時代的坦克提供明顯更多支持的原因。

In a war of today, frontline Ukrainian units are hungry for more modern weapons to help unfreeze this conflict, Jessica Parker.

在今天的戰爭中，前線的烏克蘭部隊渴望得到更多的現代武器來幫助解凍這場衝突，傑西卡-帕克。

Well earlier we spoke to yuri sack who is an adviser to Ukraine's defense Minister and he shared with us his views on yesterday's meeting Of those Western allies in Ramstein.

早些時候，我們採訪了烏克蘭國防部長的顧問尤里-薩克，他與我們分享了他對昨天在拉姆施泰因舉行的那些西方盟友會議的看法。

And you know, it has followed the same logic as the previous ones.

而且你知道，它遵循了與以前相同的邏輯。

More military assistance was pledged to Ukraine.

向烏克蘭承諾了更多的軍事援助。

More countries have said again that they will stand with Ukraine for as long as necessary.

更多國家再次表示，只要有必要，他們將與烏克蘭站在一起。

And essentially what we need to do now is to redefine what it means to stand with Ukraine because for us, defending at this stage of this warfare does not mean just stabilizing the front line and actually we are very grateful to our allies for the military support that we have received so far because thanks to that support, we were able to stabilize the front line.

而從本質上講，我們現在需要做的是重新定義與烏克蘭站在一起的含義，因為對我們來說，在這場戰爭的這個階段，防禦並不僅僅意味著穩定前線，實際上我們非常感謝我們的盟友到目前為止對我們的軍事支持，因為多虧了這種支持，我們才得以穩定了前線。

We were able to stop the enemy from advancing and we were able to even drive the enemy out of certain areas.

我們能夠阻止敵人前進，我們甚至能夠把敵人趕出某些地區。

But of course right now for us to be able to defend our land, means to be able to de occupy our land to liberate our territories and for this, we need heavy tanks for this, we need armored vehicles and from this perspective, today's Ramstein was very successful and this is something that our Minister of Defense Mr Alexey Reznikoff said today, but at the same time it could have been even more successful because look, this was Ramstein number eight, but at the same time, for example, Ukraine has been already target of 12 massive missile attacks.

但當然，現在對我們來說，能夠保衛我們的土地，意味著能夠佔領我們的土地，解放我們的領土，為此，我們需要重型坦克，我們需要裝甲車，從這個角度來看，今天的拉姆施泰因非常成功，這是我們的國防部長Alexey Reznikoff先生今天說的，但與此同時，它本來可以更加成功，因為看，這是拉姆施泰因第八次，但與此同時，例如，烏克蘭已經成為12次大規模飛彈襲擊的目標。

So we need to be as a coalition of free nations, we need to be one or couple of steps ahead of our enemy, not behind our enemy.

是以，我們需要作為一個自由國家的聯盟，我們需要比我們的敵人領先一步或幾步，而不是落後於我們的敵人。

The german defense minister has said that he won't stand in the way Germany won't stand in the way if the allies are acting as one does that, then now mean that it's it's in NATO's NATO members, the ball is in their court is over to them.

德國國防部長已經說過，他不會阻擋德國不會阻擋，如果盟友們都像一個人那樣行動，那麼現在意味著它是它在北約的北約成員，球在他們的法庭上是交給他們的。

How likely is it that they will act unified on this?

他們在這方面採取統一行動的可能性有多大？

We are confident and we have no doubt that the decision to start providing Ukraine with heavy tanks will be made actually it in a way has already been made because the United Kingdom has shown leadership and was the first country to actually overcome this mental hurdle and start providing Ukraine with tanks or we are very grateful to the United Kingdom for the Challenger two tanks that hopefully will arrive on our battlefield soon.

我們有信心，而且我們毫不懷疑，開始向烏克蘭提供重型坦克的決定將被作出，實際上在某種程度上它已經被作出，因為英國已經顯示出領導力，是第一個真正克服這一心理障礙並開始向烏克蘭提供坦克的國家，或者說我們非常感謝英國提供的挑戰者二號坦克，希望它將很快抵達我們的戰場。

Now, at the same time, of course it is, we know that there are more than 2000, for example, leo tanks in europe and we have said it, but Before that there is no rational explanation why Ukraine who is now, which is now fighting for the freedom of Europe, why we're not getting a fraction of that because you know that our military command has said in the past, we need 300 tanks.

現在，與此同時，當然是，我們知道有超過2000輛，例如，歐洲的利奧坦克，我們已經說過了，但在此之前，沒有合理的解釋，為什麼現在的烏克蘭，現在正在為歐洲的自由而戰，為什麼我們沒有得到其中的一小部分，因為你知道，我們的軍事指揮部在過去說，我們需要300輛坦克。

This is a fraction of what the NATO allies and European countries actually are in a position to provide Ukraine.

這只是北約盟國和歐洲國家實際有能力提供給烏克蘭的一小部分。

So as our President Zelensky said Ukraine will continue to push for this political decision and we are very hopeful that this will be taken in time for our next stages of the military counter offensive.

是以，正如我國總統澤倫斯基所說，烏克蘭將繼續推動這一政治決定，我們非常希望在我們下一階段的軍事反攻中及時採取這一決定。

Okay, and what do you make then, also of the german argument that the U.

好吧，那你怎麼看德國人關於美國的說法？

Should be providing their Abrams tank to Ukraine and that would help to facilitate the matter for yourselves.

應該向烏克蘭提供他們的艾布拉姆斯坦克，這將有助於促進你們自己的事情。

Abrams tanks are also something that we have been asking for, but we understand that there are some concerns in the US as with regard to the maintenance issues of these tanks.

艾布拉姆斯坦克也是我們一直要求的東西，但我們知道在美國對這些坦克的維護問題有一些擔憂。

Um actually, I have to say that today, another important decision was made that some european countries will already begin training Ukrainian servicemen, Ukrainian tank pilots to use to operate Leo part two tanks.

實際上，我不得不說，今天做出了另一個重要決定，一些歐洲國家已經開始培訓烏克蘭軍人，烏克蘭坦克飛行員，以使用操作利奧第二部分坦克。

So the first step is already being taken.

So whether the US will decide to change their opinion and start providing crane with Abrams tanks, we'll have to see one thing we are confident is that the Ukrainian servicemen learn very fast.

是以，美國是否會決定改變他們的意見並開始向起重機提供艾布拉姆斯坦克，我們將不得不看到一件事，我們確信烏克蘭軍人學得非常快。

We have shown this in the past and you know, when it comes to, for example, issues like fuel consumption because this was one of the issues Abrams are apparently as they've been done gas guzzlers, but at the same time, look, it's fuel versus blood is the fuel that needs to be put into those tanks against the blood, that Ukrainian Ukrainian people are paying for this war of freedom every day.

我們在過去已經表明了這一點，你知道，當它涉及到，例如，像燃料消耗的問題，因為這是問題之一艾布拉姆斯顯然是，因為他們已經做了氣體消耗者，但在同一時間，看，這是燃料與血是需要投入這些坦克的燃料對血，烏克蘭烏克蘭人民每天都在為這場自由戰爭付出。

所以對我們來說，這是一個非常簡單的決定。

 We hope that allies will make that decision in favor of providing Ukraine tax soon, because this war must not be allowed to become a protracted war. 

我們希望盟國能夠儘快做出有利於向烏克蘭提供稅收的決定，因為決不能讓這場戰爭變成一場持久戰。