The company said the power plant had just 15 days of fuel left to run the generators and would be switching part of the plan to a cold state to preserve energy supplies.

該公司說，發電廠只剩下15天的燃料來運行發電機，將把部分計劃轉為冷態，以保存能源供應。

Meanwhile, seven ships carrying green have left from Ukraine's Black Sea ports a day after Russia rejoined a scheme to allow its export Moscow pulled out of the deal last week after an attack on its naval base in Crimea.

同時，在俄羅斯重新加入允許其出口的計劃後的一天，七艘運載綠色的船隻已經從烏克蘭的黑海港口離開。在克里米亞的海軍基地遭到襲擊後，莫斯科上週退出了這項交易。

Well, let's go to keep now.

好了，我們現在去保持。

And our correspondent there, Catherine by hunger and Catherine, lots of development, lots of movements.

而我們在那裡的記者，飢餓和凱瑟琳，很多的發展，很多的運動。

But let's begin with the apparition the nuclear power plant first.

但讓我們先從核電站的幻象開始。

Yes, the news that we're getting is that there was heavy shelling around this operation nuclear power plant overnight.

是的，我們得到的消息是，一夜之間在這個操作核電站周圍發生了猛烈的炮擊。

As a result, the main high power voltage lines bringing electricity to the facility were then knocked out.

結果，為該設施供電的主要高壓線隨後被擊斷。

And this means that the facility is now running on backup generators.

而這意味著，該設施現在是靠備用發電機運行。

Now this is an extraordinary situation because this is europe's biggest nuclear power plant.

現在，這是一個特殊的情況，因為這是歐洲最大的核電站。

It's six main reactors have had to be shut down because of safety concerns, but it doesn't need constant supply of electricity to make sure that it doesn't go into a nuclear meltdown.

由於安全問題，它的六個主要反應堆不得不被關閉，但它不需要持續的電力供應來確保它不會陷入核熔斷。

Now it has been knocked off the grid before that has happened and it has been reconnected.

現在它在發生這種情況之前就已經被打掉了，而且已經重新連接了。

Obviously this this incident does add to the international concerns about the safety of the facility and we've heard from the director general of the international atomic Energy Agency, Rafael Grossi.

顯然，這一事件確實增加了國際社會對該設施安全的擔憂，我們已經聽到國際原子能機構總幹事拉斐爾-格羅西的發言。

He said that this incident underlines extremely precarious nuclear safety and security situation at the facility.

他說，這一事件凸顯了該設施極其不穩定的核安全和安保狀況。

And he renewed calls for a protect protection zone around the nuclear power plant.

他還再次呼籲在核電站周圍設立保護區域。

As you mentioned there further south at the in Ukraine's Black Sea ports, we've seen seven ships leave carrying nearly 300,000 tons of grain.

正如你提到的，在烏克蘭黑海港口的更南端，我們已經看到七艘船離開，裝載了近30萬噸的糧食。

They're going to countries like Spain Italy and the Netherlands, Netherlands.

他們要去西班牙意大利和荷蘭等國家，荷蘭。

The fact that this grain initiative is continuing is positive news.

這一糧食倡議正在繼續，這是一個積極的消息。

And we've seen global prices for food on the global stock markets going down again because of the positive developments in the Black Sea Catherine.

而且我們已經看到全球股票市場上的全球食品價格因為黑海凱瑟琳的積極發展而再次下降。

Thank you so much for that update.

非常感謝你的更新。

I'm joined now by dr ross peel an expert on nuclear power plant security from King's College London.

現在我請到了羅斯-皮爾博士，他是倫敦國王學院的核電站安全問題專家。

Thank you dr Peale for joining us here on the program.

謝謝皮爾博士參加我們的節目。

Mean, frankly, these nuclear power plants across Ukraine have been at the center of this conflict from the very beginning.

坦率地說，整個烏克蘭的這些核電站從一開始就處於這場衝突的中心。

Yes, absolutely.

是的，當然。

And thank you very much for having me.

非常感謝你邀請我。

These nuclear power plants have been a key objective, it seems, of the Russian invasion with we are seeing in the early days of the invasion, military forces moving very quickly to secure a variety of nuclear facilities.

這些核電站似乎是俄羅斯入侵的一個關鍵目標，我們看到在入侵的早期，軍隊非常迅速地移動，以確保各種核設施。

And it seems now that the only one they've managed to hold on to is a poor Asia, although that's not it's all a good thing.

而現在看來，他們唯一能堅持下來的是一個可憐的亞洲，雖然這並不全是好事。

Help us understand, help our audiences understand this grid system and once they're turned off, you know, why do they need energy for?

幫助我們理解，幫助我們的閱聽人理解這個電網系統，一旦他們被關閉，你知道，他們為什麼需要能源？

How long do they need energy?

他們需要多長時間的能量？

So nuclear fuel in a reactor, even when you shut the reactor down remains very hot and generates even more heat actually than it has at the start over time.

是以，反應堆中的核燃料，即使你關閉了反應堆，仍然非常熱，隨著時間的推移，實際產生的熱量甚至比開始時更多。

And so you need to continue to remove that heat in order to prevent the temperature rising to the point of being in danger.

是以，你需要繼續消除這種熱量，以防止溫度上升到危險的地步。

Now that situation that heat generation will continue for quite a long period of time, it might initially be very hot and very high generating.

現在這種情況下，發熱將持續相當長的一段時間，最初可能是非常熱，而且發熱量非常高。

But it remains that way for for for a long time for years and years actually.

但它在很長一段時間內都是這樣，實際上是多年來一直如此。

And once the grid is changed to say that the Russian system, does that mean that they can actually control which direction it goes in?

而一旦電網被改變為說俄羅斯的系統，這是否意味著他們可以真正控制它的方向？

It does.

它確實如此。

So if they've connected the power plant up to a Russian grid system instead of the Ukrainian grid system, then they will be able to send that power to perhaps not the Russian grid due to the distances involved and some of the infrastructural problems, but certainly to power Crimea and maybe into nearer parts of Russia.

是以，如果他們將發電廠連接到俄羅斯電網系統，而不是烏克蘭電網系統，那麼他們將能夠把電力輸送到也許不是俄羅斯電網，因為涉及的距離和一些基礎設施問題，但肯定是為克里米亞供電，也許是為俄羅斯更近的地區供電。

And I suppose also control where it doesn't get it, especially with this kind of cold, harsh winter coming.

我想也要控制它沒有得到的地方，特別是在這種寒冷的嚴冬來臨之際。

Absolutely.

絕對的。

So one of the key elements of this is presumably to prevent the energy being available to Ukraine in order to put pressure on Ukraine to surrender.

是以，這其中的一個關鍵因素大概是為了防止向烏克蘭提供能源，以便對烏克蘭施加壓力，使其投降。

The interesting point though is the fact that they've kept the Ukrainian workers on.

但有趣的是，他們保留了烏克蘭工人的工作。

Yes.

是的。

So the Ukrainian workers are there simply because many experts believe myself included, that Russia would simply not have the thousands of people necessary in order to operate a plant like this ready and waiting with nothing to do apart from go to Ukraine and do so.

是以，烏克蘭工人在那裡，只是因為許多專家認為，包括我自己在內，俄羅斯根本沒有成千上萬的必要人員來操作這樣的工廠，他們除了去烏克蘭之外沒有任何事情可做。

Those people are already employed in running power plants in Russia.

這些人已經受僱於俄羅斯的電廠營運。

And so Russia will certainly want to keep those Ukrainian staff working at the plant and operating it, albeit under new contracts that make them employed by a Russian organization that's been set up specifically for this purpose.

是以，俄羅斯肯定希望讓這些烏克蘭員工繼續在工廠工作並操作它，儘管是根據新的合同，使他們受僱於一個專門為此目的而設立的俄羅斯組織。

I understand this time around they've date stamped the time, how significant is this?

我知道這次他們在時間上蓋了日期戳，這有多大意義？

So this is not a new development.

所以這不是一個新的發展。

The date stamping of something like this in public terms is potentially new, but it's always been the case that the diesel supply at the plant for the emergency backup generators is limited in some way.

在公開場合對這樣的事情蓋上日期戳可能是新的，但一直以來的情況是，工廠的應急備用發電機的機油供應在某種程度上是有限的。

And I've heard estimates ranging from as little as 10 days to as high as 40 days.

而我聽到的估計從少至10天到多至40天不等。

It depends to a certain extent on how, how much of the generation capacity is needed and how fast the fuel is used.

這在一定程度上取決於如何、需要多少發電量以及燃料的使用速度。

But certainly there is a limitation unless new diesel can be brought in via delivery, which under the conditions of conflict is challenging.

但肯定有一個限制，除非新的機油可以通過運送進入，而在衝突條件下這是一個挑戰。

And speaking of the conditions of conflict, I mean, how dangerous can it be if running these systems falls into the wrong hands or the wrong thing happens at these nuclear power plants?

說到衝突的條件，我的意思是，如果運行這些系統落入壞人之手，或者在這些核電站發生錯誤的事情，會有多危險？

So it can be dangerous.

所以它可能是危險的。

It can be catastrophic.

這可能是災難性的。

In fact, if we see that the nuclear material can no longer be managed safely and kept cool, either within the reactor or in the spent fuel storage areas outside of the plant itself.

事實上，如果我們看到，無論是在反應堆內還是在工廠本身之外的乏燃料儲存區，都無法再對核材料進行安全管理和保持低溫。

Then we might see that fuel getting hotter and hotter and eventually breaking out of its various containment to release nuclear material into the atmosphere where it could travel great distances.

然後，我們可能會看到燃料變得越來越熱，並最終衝出其各種容器，將核材料釋放到大氣中，在那裡它可以傳播很遠的距離。

Okay, DR Peale will have to leave it there.

好吧，皮爾博士將不得不把它放在那裡。

Thank you very much for joining us here on the program.

非常感謝你參加我們的節目。

Thank you.

謝謝你。