namely, that God is love

就是說，上帝是愛

and that we're free,

而我們是自由的。

which means we can respond to that love,

這意味著我們可以對這種愛作出迴應。

we can incorporate that love, we can hook ourselves onto it,

我們可以納入這種愛，我們可以把自己掛在上面。

or we can resist it.

或者我們可以抵制它。

And hell would be the permanent

而地獄將是永久的

and eternal absolute "no" to God.

和永恆的對上帝的絕對 "不"。

If you are at a party-

如果你在一個聚會上-

there's a party swirling around you.

有一個聚會在你身邊旋轉。

Everyone's having a great time.

每個人都過得很開心。

There's music and there's good food and everyone's laughing,

有音樂，有美味的食物，每個人都在笑。

but you're in the worst mood of your life.

但你的心情是一生中最糟糕的。

That party is increasing your suffering.

那一方正在增加你的痛苦。

If you were by yourself,

如果你是自己一個人。

you wouldn't suffer as much as you would in that party.

你就不會像在那個聚會中那樣受苦。

Well, see, hell would be like that.

嗯，看，地獄會是這樣的。

'The Bible's very clear on the existence of hell.'

'聖經對地獄的存在非常清楚。

Well, some time ago, I did a video

嗯，前段時間，我做了一個視頻

where I suggested we may hope that all people be saved.

我在那裡建議我們可以希望所有的人都得到拯救。

I didn't say, "I know all people are saved."

我沒有說 "我知道所有的人都得救了"。

I didn't say, "No problem, don't worry about it."

我沒有說，"沒問題，不用擔心"。

I said, "We may hope."

我說，"我們可以希望"。

And I must say I was very surprised

我必須說我非常驚訝

at the vehemence of the reaction of some people,

對一些人反應的激烈程度感到震驚。

who seem to be very enthusiastic about a populated hell.

他們似乎非常熱衷於一個有人居住的地獄。

The position I take, I think, is kind of a middle ground

我所採取的立場，我想，是一種中間立場

between saying, "Well, obviously everyone goes to heaven,"

在說 "嗯，顯然每個人都會去天堂 "之間

and "Well, no, obviously there's, you know, lots and lots,

和 "嗯，不，顯然有，你知道，有很多很多。

or most people in hell."

或地獄裡的大多數人。"

Mine, I think, is a middle position.

我認為，我的是一箇中間立場。

What are arguments for a crowded hell?

什麼是擁擠的地獄的論據？

Well, look around us.

那麼，看看我們周圍。

I mean, that's easy in a way.

我的意思是，這在某種程度上很容易。

There's plenty of wickedness to go around.

有很多邪惡的事情要做。

And so we can say Hitler and Stalin

所以我們可以說希特勒和斯大林

are the real limited cases,

是真正的有限案例。

but come on, look around, and look in.

但來吧，看看周圍，再看看裡面。

Well, the Bible says, "There's no man righteous,

嗯，聖經說："沒有人是正義的。

No, not one."

不，一個也沒有。"

So that's easy in a way

所以這在某種程度上是很容易的

that, yeah, if I just look at human achievement,

那，是的，如果我只是看人類的成就。

morally speaking, I'd say most of us would go to hell.

從道德上講，我想說我們大多數人都會下地獄。

What's the counter argument?

反駁的理由是什麼？

God, and God's love and God's mercy.

上帝，以及上帝的愛和上帝的憐憫。

And more to it, what God has accomplished in Christ.

而更多的是，神在基督裡所成就的事情。

The Father sent the Son where?

父把子送到哪裡？

Into our sin so that He could, in principle,

進入我們的罪，以便他能在原則上。

carry everybody back to the Father.

攜帶每個人回到天父身邊。

So yes, I look all around, what do I see?

所以是的，我環顧四周，我看到了什麼？

People destined for hell.

註定要下地獄的人。

Jesus himself said that, 'The road to perdition is wide

耶穌自己說："通往滅亡的道路是寬廣的

and most taken.'

和最拿得出手的'。

Yeah sure, that's true,

是的，當然，那是真的。

but-

但-

but that same Jesus went to the end of that road

但同一個耶穌走到了那條路的盡頭

so that as we run away from the Father,

是以，當我們逃離父親的時候。

we are running into the arms of the Son.

我們正在奔向聖子的懷抱。

Are we ready for intimacy with God,

我們是否準備好了與神的親密關係。

which is what heaven means?

這就是天堂的意思？

Well, not until we've purged selfishness,

嗯，除非我們清除了自私自利。

cruelty, different forms of wickedness from our lives.

殘忍，不同形式的邪惡從我們的生活中消失。

We require, therefore, 'the schola animarum,'

是以，我們需要的是 "靈性之學"。

the school of souls, this purgative process

靈魂的學校，這個淨化的過程

by which we're readied for love.

我們通過它為愛做好準備。

Might this take place even after we die?

即使在我們死後也可能發生這種情況嗎？

Let's face it, in this life, it's not the case

讓我們面對現實吧，在這一生中，情況並非如此

that the best people get rewarded,

最好的人得到獎勵。

and the most wicked people are punished.

和最邪惡的人受到懲罰。

I mean sometimes, but not always.

我的意思是有時，但不總是。

And so people, I think, very naturally have said,

所以人們，我想，非常自然地說了。

"No, there must be some realm where things are set right.

"不，一定有一些境界，在那裡事情被擺平了。

Where a God, who is a God of justice, sets things right."

在那裡，有一位上帝，他是正義的上帝，將事情擺平"。

Now, is anyone in the state of hell,

現在，是否有人處於地獄的狀態。

permanent, everlasting rejection of God?

永久的、永遠的拒絕上帝？

Well, we don't know.

嗯，我們不知道。

Purgatory, a place of purification,

煉獄，一個淨化的地方。

where imperfections are burned away,

瑕疵被燒掉的地方。

where things are set right.

在那裡，事情被擺平了。

Might we hope for that, hope for that, even for all people?

我們是否可以希望如此，希望如此，甚至為所有的人？

We may hope-

我們可能希望--

I don't know it.

我不知道它。

To claim to know it is to fall into a heresy.

聲稱瞭解它就是落入異端。

I'm not gonna do that.

我不會這麼做的。

But I may hope,

但我可能希望。

given the acrobatic display of God's love in Christ,

鑑於上帝的愛在基督裡的雜技表演。

I may hope that all people be saved.

我可能希望所有的人都得到拯救。