What kind of uh did you just take the show?

你剛才的表演是什麼樣的呃？

I'm refilling myself, You want some more?

我正在給自己加油，你想再來點嗎？

Sure, I love it, I love the man, you got it dude, that's crazy amount of sugar rum Soudani, this is what we do, I think as we got into this season and we kind of tweaked what Rami was really trying to pursue right for the first time.

當然，我愛它，我愛這個人，你得到了它，這是瘋狂的糖量朗姆酒Soudani，這是我們所做的，我想當我們進入這個季節，我們有點調整拉米第一次真正試圖追求的東西。

Just he's like, you know what, maybe I don't want to be good, I just want to be good at something, can you pursue that kind of financial goal or that kind of uh that idea of even like that pursuit of the american dream and still hold on to your moral compass, like if that becomes number one and I feel like that's really what's what's on the spotlight this season, any objective in life other than if someone is just gonna live in the mash it and pray and fast and thicker and whatnot that they're going to have to engage in something something of the world and the prophet himself, the model, obviously for our religion, he wasn't monastic in that way, he's engaging so the constant balancing act between the inner world and the outer world, the unseen world and the seen world is just the balance of you know, a walking person going from the right to the left and the right to the left, right, but I feel like that gets lost really, that gets lost really quickly and like you know that and again like I think like when you are leaving your home country and you're kind of in a place where you're kind of trying to figure out yeah how do you make that living for yourself and again make it worth it, can you hold on to who you are, where I grew up, it felt as though like like poverty was a property of being muslim almost, you know, and that the moment you begin to transcend um that poverty, it's like you're actually moving away from Islam, you know, I think tussling with that is um is a thing that I think we all have to do, you know, and I think you know, as now we get into the third season, this core thing underneath what we've been exploring I think has been this this financial anxiety that is really present, like Grace, like how has that anxiety been part of your family even like growing up, like how did that affect you?

只是他想，你知道嗎，也許我不想成為優秀的人，我只想成為優秀的人，你能不能追求那種財務目標或那種呃，甚至像追求美國夢的想法，仍然堅持你的道德指南針，像如果這成為第一，我覺得這真的是什麼是本賽季的焦點。生活中的任何目標，如果有人只是要生活在混沌中，祈禱和禁食，更厚重和諸如此類的東西，他們將不得不參與世界上的一些東西，先知本人，模型，顯然是我們的宗教，他不是以這種方式修道的。他在參與，所以內在世界和外在世界，看不見的世界和看得見的世界之間的不斷平衡，就是你知道的，一個走路的人從右邊走到左邊，從右邊走到左邊，對，

Yeah, absolutely, so my parents were immigrants from Taiwan and they came here for the american dream and I was really blessed to be raised in a lot of you know with upper middle class home, so money was not a worry for me, but that actually led to me to search for meaning and actually led me to find islam because it's like okay is this the point of life is just to make as much money as you can, and you're done, and you can you can take your toys with you, you can't do that.

是的，絕對的，所以我的父母是來自臺灣的移民，他們為了美國夢來到這裡，我真的很幸運，在很多你知道的中上層家庭中長大，所以錢對我來說不是一個問題，但這實際上導致我尋找意義，實際上導致我找到伊斯蘭教，因為這就像好吧，這就是生活的意義，只是為了賺儘可能多的錢，你就完了，你可以把你的玩具帶走，你不能這樣做。

So there has to be more, well, it's so funny to growing up, like, with money, but without faith, and you find it's really funny though when you grow up with faith and not money, because then you're like, where's the money you're like, and then you almost kind of like, forget about the, you know, because you're kind of like, we believe, but it didn't come in and it almost it's like money becomes the fixation, but then money has become your religion.

所以必須有更多的，嗯，這很有趣，在成長過程中，比如，有錢，但沒有信仰，你發現這真的很有趣，雖然當你長大後有信仰而沒有錢，因為你喜歡，你喜歡的錢在哪裡，然後你幾乎有點像，忘記了，你知道，因為你有點像，我們相信，但它沒有進來，它幾乎它像錢成為固定的，但然後錢已經成為你的宗教。

Well, yeah, yeah, and I think that's kind of almost like what we see happen with this family, you know, I mean, how is it, like for you growing up, I think, well, growing up in the hood, it was, you know, you're speaking about how you had, like, the stability to explore faith and I think because of the instability, a lot of people drew towards Islam, and it made a lot of sense because, you know, there had to be something more than what our situation was, you know, there had to be something more than the violence and like, you know, and the instability in the mental illness and, and you know, that's all I think results of poverty of course, and so, you know, seeing the way Romney's family struggles in this episode is a thing I understand profoundly and him going to to any end, you know what I mean?

嗯，是的，是的，我認為這有點像我們看到的發生在這個家庭，你知道，我的意思是，它是如何，像你成長，我認為，嗯，成長在引擎蓋，這是，你知道，你說的是如何你有，像，穩定的探索信仰，我認為，因為不穩定，很多人吸引到伊斯蘭教，它有很大的意義，因為，你知道。必須有比我們的情況更多的東西，你知道，必須有比暴力和像，你知道，和不穩定的精神疾病和，你知道，這都是我認為當然是貧窮的結果，所以，你知道，看到羅姆尼的家庭在這一集的掙扎方式是我深刻理解的事情，他去到任何結束，你知道我的意思？

To make things happen for his family is a difficult thing to critique or question when you don't kind of share that kind of same struggle as as him and his family.

當你不像他和他的家人那樣分享那種相同的掙扎時，為他的家庭做事情是一件很難責備或質疑的事情。

So I think I watched a lot of people do do a lot of things of course, to to just free themselves from the situation of being in in in in the community like mine, what was it like for, you know, for you know, just how your family thinks about this stuff and processes my people's situation was obviously different.

所以我想我看到很多人做了很多事情，當然是為了把自己從像我這樣的社區中解放出來，對於你知道的，對於你知道的，只是你的家人如何看待這個東西和處理我的人的情況顯然不同。

We didn't immigrate here but were brought here as slaves, so which was about money.

我們沒有移民到這裡，而是作為奴隸被帶到這裡，所以這與錢有關。

Yeah, which was about money just we weren't doing making it.

是的，那是關於錢的，只是我們沒有在做製作。

So it was like the experience of one not having a home.

所以這就像一個人沒有家的經歷。

So it's like I'm it's almost as if to say it was like, this is like an extended business trip for some communities, like we have a home, but we're here away from home to do a job, that business trip idea and you know, of did your family send money back home?

所以它就像我，它幾乎就像說，這就像一些社區的長期商務旅行，就像我們有一個家，但我們在這裡遠離家鄉做一份工作，那個商務旅行的想法，你知道，你的家人有沒有寄錢回家？

You know, like you're like, you're always sending money back home, you're always like, you're trying to like, at least growing up we would be saving money for people in Egypt and then we'd also be trying to like save money just to talk to them, right?

你知道，像你一樣，你總是寄錢回家，你總是像，你試圖像，至少在成長過程中，我們會給埃及的人存錢，然後我們也會試影像存錢一樣，只是為了和他們交談，對嗎？

Like we had the phone card game.

就像我們的電話卡遊戲。

I remember one time my dad bought a stack of phone cards from this dude and it turns out like all the codes have been used.

我記得有一次，我爸爸從這個傢伙那裡買了一疊電話卡，結果發現好像所有的密碼都被用過了。

This rocked our family.

這震撼了我們的家庭。

I mean we were like this is like and now we're going back through patterson, we're trying to find the guy.

我的意思是，我們就像這樣，現在我們要回到帕特森，我們試圖找到那個人。

I don't I mean like when I was a kid it felt like we lost a million dollars 30 minutes and then $5 for an hour.

我不，我的意思是像我還是個孩子的時候，感覺我們30分鐘就失去了一百萬美元，然後一小時5美元。

And so it's like you're saving money to send back home.

是以，這就像你在攢錢寄回家。

You're saving money to even communicate with home to communicate with everything you've known.

你省下的錢甚至可以和家裡溝通，與你所知道的一切溝通。

Like everything has a price tag and then it's at a certain point you're like, oh I think I'm thinking more about the price tag than the reason why even the thing, you know, and I feel like that's so baked into the anxiety of like but that's the key when you start asking what is money and so on and obviously the dollar doesn't have an intrinsic value.

就像所有的東西都有一個價格標籤，然後它在某一點上你會喜歡，哦，我想我更多地考慮價格標籤，而不是即使是這個東西的原因，你知道，我覺得那是如此烘托出一種焦慮，比如說，但是當你開始問什麼是錢等等，這就是關鍵，顯然美元沒有內在的價值。

And then we even think about gold and it's like more real, it would be so much better if you could smell $100 bill and like run faster.

然後我們甚至想到了黃金，它就像更真實的，如果你能聞到100美元的鈔票，就像跑得更快，那會好得多。

Like at least like that would be like if it was just like and then just like we were able to do something it would be so okay.

至少像這樣，如果它只是像，然後只是像我們能夠做一些事情，這將是如此的好。

I get why why this is That, that was $100 sprint like, like that was a premium dollar right there.

我明白為什麼這是......那是100美元的衝刺，就像那是一個高級美元。

But yeah, but so what we're seeking, like we're talking about people get so involved with the means.

但是，是的，但是，所以我們所尋求的，就像我們所談論的人們得到如此參與的手段。

They like, I'm doing this for my family, but they never see their family because they're chasing the means by which to be with their family, never even know their families.

他們喜歡，我是為了我的家人才這樣做的，但是他們從來沒有見過他們的家人，因為他們在追尋與家人在一起的方法，甚至從來沒有認識他們的家人。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

It's a very dangerous and easy way to stray off of even the path that we've made for ourselves.

這是一個非常危險和容易偏離的方式，甚至是我們為自己制定的道路。

But also, even even with how I think we're framing this through through Romney's perspective, is it possible in the setup right now to keep your morals and and do that and like what does it look like to go gray tell you a story.

但是，即使是我認為我們通過羅姆尼的視角來框定這一點，在現在的設置中，是否有可能保持你的道德和和做到這一點，並像什麼樣子去灰色告訴你一個故事。

I remember I was a young father And we had no money and we didn't have diapers.

我記得我是一個年輕的父親，我們沒有錢，也沒有尿布。

So I remember I had this like little check, I can't remember some sort of like rebate check for like it was like $7 or something, I didn't even have a bank account, I was broke, broke, broke, broke and I'll go to the grocery store and see if I can like cash is $7 check so I can get some diapers and uh and I couldn't because I didn't have whatever, I couldn't, so I'm standing outside on the corner and um there's this this is a profound moment for me.

所以我記得我有一張小支票，我不記得是什麼退稅支票，好像是7美元之類的，我甚至沒有銀行賬戶，我破產了，破產了，破產了，我去雜貨店，看看我是否能兌現7美元的支票，這樣我就可以買一些尿布，呃，我不能，因為我沒有什麼，我不能，所以我站在外面的角落，嗯，這是我一個深刻的時刻。

There was this man and he had this cart like overflowing with cans, right?

有一個人，他有一個手推車，好像裝滿了罐子，對嗎？

And I was like, I want to take his cans, right?

我當時想，我想拿他的罐子，對嗎？

I've thought to myself, I just had a thought about robbing an old man.

我曾想過，我剛才有一個想法，就是搶劫一個老人。

It's funny, yeah.

這很有趣，是的。

For empty soda cans, you know what I'm saying?

對於空汽水罐，你知道我在說什麼嗎？

But in that moment I was like, oh I I see how you could get to that place and how quickly um the moral framework just dissolves, like like a sugar cube and and water it just and it's not for nothing, you know, it's not just um out of just weakness, it's it's often times, I would say most times a consequence of love, you know?

但在那一刻，我想，哦，我知道你是如何到達那個地方的，道德框架是多麼迅速地溶解，就像一個糖塊和水一樣，它不是無緣無故的，你知道，它不只是嗯，只是出於軟弱，它是它經常，我會說大多數時候是愛的結果，你知道？