It's wonderful.

這很美妙。

What's more nerve racking for you?

什麼更讓你感到緊張？

Is it meeting with presidents or Ceos or being here in front of a studio audience?

是與總統或首席執行官會面，還是在這裡面對演播室的觀眾？

Definitely being here because when you meet the president and Ceo and you say something stupid, I mean, they are the only ones that the period and they I've heard many stupid things in their life so they forget it.

絕對是在這裡，因為當你遇到總統和首席執行官，你說了一些愚蠢的話，我的意思是，他們是這個時期唯一的人，他們我已經在他們的生活中聽到了許多愚蠢的事情，所以他們會忘記它。

But if I say something stupid here, you know, it's on television, everybody hears it and it never goes away.

但是，如果我在這裡說了一些愚蠢的話，你知道，這是在電視上，每個人都聽到了，它永遠不會消失。

And well, let's talk about this book.

好吧，讓我們來談談這本書。

I'm so thrilled that you've done this.

我很高興你能這樣做。

This is your first ever Children's book.

這是你的第一本兒童書。

Yes.

是的。

Unstoppable.

不可阻擋的。

Ask how humans took over the world.

詢問人類是如何佔領世界的。

Why was it important for you to write a book for younger readers?

為什麼為年輕讀者寫一本書對你來說很重要？

Because I wanted to really help them understand the world and help them understand who they are?

因為我想真正幫助他們瞭解世界，幫助他們瞭解自己是誰？

You know, this is the biggest question maybe in the life of every kid.

你知道，這也許是每個孩子生活中最大的問題。

I mean, what am I?

我是說，我是什麼？

And you know, the world is so complicated and sometimes frightening.

而且你知道，這個世界是如此複雜，有時還很可怕。

Like I I remember that as a kid, I would wake up in the middle of the night afraid of is a monster under the bed.

就像我記得小時候，我會在半夜醒來，害怕是床下有怪物。

And this is actually a memory, historical memory from tens of thousands of years ago when our aunt sisters lived in the wild and there were actually monsters that came to eat kids in the night a lion would come to eat you.

而這實際上是一種記憶，是幾萬年前的歷史記憶，當時我們的姑姑姐姐們生活在野外，實際上有一些怪物會在晚上來吃小孩，一隻獅子會來吃你。

And if you woke up in here and ran away or called your mom, you had a chance of surviving.

而如果你在這裡醒來後逃跑或打電話給你媽媽，你就有機會活下來。

So knowing this, that it's not, it's not something about, you know, you personally, it's part of what makes us human.

所以知道這一點，它不是，它不是關於，你知道，你個人的東西，它是使我們人類的一部分。

I think that's important.

我認為這很重要。

And the book also connected to, it's not just about the stone Age and tens of thousands of years ago, it's about what's happening right now.

而且這本書還連接到，它不僅僅是關於石器時代和數萬年前，它是關於現在正在發生的事情。

You know, you have all these books about lions and elephants and whales, which are really important.

你知道，你有所有這些關於獅子、大象和鯨魚的書，這真的很重要。

But kids rarely actually meet a lion today, but they meet, say corporations every day they meet google and Tiktok and facebook and Mcdonald's and Disney and they need to understand what a corporation is and how to be aware of the dangers when encountering a corporation, which is today far more dangerous than a lion.

但是，今天的孩子們很少真正遇到獅子，但是他們每天都會遇到，比如說公司，他們會遇到谷歌、Tiktok、Facebook、麥當勞和迪士尼，他們需要了解什麼是公司，以及在遇到公司時如何注意危險，今天的公司遠比獅子更危險。

So you think it's more dangerous than the lion.

所以你認為它比獅子更危險。

Yes.

是的。

I mean when was the last time that A Lion in Los Angeles?

我的意思是，A獅在洛杉磯的最後一次是什麼時候？

I heard some kids, but you know, Tiktoker Mcdonald's, they can be very dangerous.

我聽說有些孩子，但你知道，蒂克特-麥克唐納，他們可能非常危險。

So it's important I think for history to connect the past with the present and the book tries to explain for instance, what is a cooperation, which is something quite complicated.

是以，我認為歷史將過去和現在聯繫起來是很重要的，這本書試圖解釋，例如，什麼是合作，這是一個相當複雜的東西。

You know, it's basically just an imaginary story in the stone Age you had, we had shamans who told us stories about spirits and ghosts, which we believed and basically today we have our own shamans, the lawyers and the bankers and they tell us a story about fictional entities called corporations and we believe them and they become the most powerful, some of the most powerful forces in the world.

你知道，這基本上只是一個想象中的故事，在石器時代，我們有薩滿，他們告訴我們關於精神和鬼魂的故事，我們相信這些，基本上今天我們有自己的薩滿，律師和銀行家，他們告訴我們一個關於虛構實體的故事，稱為公司，我們相信他們，他們成為最強大的，一些世界上最強大的力量。

I mean when you're on a book tour with with a book like this, is it more fun going on a book tour when you've written a kid's book, do you encounter different things?

我的意思是，當你帶著這樣一本書進行巡迴售書時，當你寫了一本兒童讀物時，進行巡迴售書是否更有趣，你會遇到不同的事情嗎？

You encounter different questions from young people?

你遇到了來自年輕人的不同問題？

Yes, some quite unexpected questions like, I don't know, this one kid asked me, I mean, is there a danger that the baboons will evolve and become smarter than us and take over the world and then look us in the zoos And you're saying that's a silly question, okay, I would be worried about the rats, not the baboons.

是的，一些相當意外的問題，比如，我不知道，這個孩子問我，我的意思是，是否有危險，狒狒會進化，變得比我們更聰明，接管世界，然後在動物園裡看我們。

The book covers essentially thousands of years of human development.

這本書基本上涵蓋了人類幾千年的發展歷程。

The central argument is that we've got a superpower that's allowed us to rule the planet.

中心論點是，我們已經有了一個超級大國，使我們能夠統治地球。

What is that as human beings?

作為人類，那是什麼？

What is that superpower?

那個超能力是什麼？

Well, the superpower is our ability to invent and believe fictional stories, Fairy Tales, which doesn't sound like much of a superpower, but actually this is what enables us to cooperate flexibly in very, very large numbers millions of people cooperate because they all believe in the same story.

好吧，超能力是我們發明和相信虛構的故事、童話的能力，這聽起來不像是什麼超能力，但實際上這是我們能夠在非常、非常大的數字中靈活合作的原因，數百萬人合作是因為他們都相信同一個故事。

You know, chimpanzees can cooperate like 50 chimpanzees or harm a chimpanzees.

你知道，黑猩猩可以像50只黑猩猩一樣合作，也可以傷害一隻黑猩猩。

You can never convince a million chimpanzees to come together to build a cathedral or to fight a war or to build a spaceship to the moon by convincing them in some story in some mythology, but this is the way that we cooperate and again, it's not just religious mythologies, it's also the economic system.

你永遠無法說服一百萬只黑猩猩一起建造大教堂，或打一場戰爭，或通過在一些神話故事中說服他們建造一艘前往月球的宇宙飛船，但這就是我們合作的方式，同樣，這不僅僅是宗教神話，它也是經濟體系。

I mean, corporations, as I said before, there are just a fictional entity.

我的意思是，公司，正如我之前所說，只是一個虛構的實體。

They exist only in our imagination.

他們只存在於我們的想象中。

No other animal on the planet is even aware that corporations exist similarly.

地球上的其他動物甚至沒有意識到公司的類似存在。

Money is probably the most successful story ever told.

錢可能是有史以來最成功的故事。

And money.

還有錢。

Again, it's just a story we invented.

同樣，這只是我們發明的一個故事。

It's not it doesn't have any objective value, like, I don't know, bananas and coconuts and things like that, but we have the greatest storytellers in the world, which are not the people who win the Nobel Prize in literature, it's the people who win the Nobel prize in economics and they tell us a story and it's basically the only story everybody believes and it's worked so successfully that I take this worthless piece of paper and go to the supermarket to a stranger I never met before in my life, and I give them this worthless piece of paper and they give me bananas that I can actually eat, and this is something that chimps can't do, and this is why we control the world and not the chimpanzees.

它不是沒有任何客觀價值，比如，我不知道，香蕉和椰子之類的東西，但我們有世界上最偉大的講故事的人，這不是獲得諾貝爾文學獎的人。而是那些獲得諾貝爾經濟學獎的人，他們給我們講了一個故事，而這基本上是每個人都相信的唯一故事，它的效果如此成功，以至於我拿著這張不值錢的紙，去超市找一個我一生中從未見過的陌生人，我給他們這張不值錢的紙，他們給我香蕉，我真的可以吃，而這是黑猩猩做不到的，這就是為什麼我們控制世界而不是黑猩猩。

And if you think about a place like the United States today, when people are having so much trouble agreeing on anything, but they still agree on money.

如果你想想今天像美國這樣的地方，當人們在任何事情上都很難達成一致時，但他們仍然在金錢上達成一致。

It's kind of maybe the last line of communication that they agree on the prices.

這也許是他們在價格上達成一致的最後一條溝通管道。

They agree on money.

他們在金錢上達成一致。

And the amazing thing about it, it's only in our head, it doesn't come from the laws of physics or biology, it's just a story that people invented.

而它的神奇之處在於，它只存在於我們的頭腦中，它並不來自於物理學或生物學的規律，它只是人們發明的一個故事。

I mean, obviously the midterms are coming up soon and there's a countless I feel like the last 45 years, six years even actually has been a fear of the state of democracy.

我的意思是，很明顯，中期選舉馬上就要到了，有無數的我覺得過去45年，甚至6年實際上一直在擔心民主的狀況。

You know, it's such a polarized country are polarized world.

你知道，這是一個兩極化的國家和兩極化的世界。

How does democracy survive when two halves of the country are absolutely telling each other different stories, they can't survive.

當國家的兩半人絕對是在互相講不同的故事時，民主如何生存，他們無法生存。

I mean, democracy is a kind of system that it's like a rare plant, it can't survive under every condition many conditions when it's simply impossible, dictatorship can survive.

我的意思是，民主是一種制度，它就像一種罕見的植物，它不能在任何條件下生存，許多條件下根本不可能，獨裁可以生存。

In most cases, it's like a weed that grows everywhere.

在大多數情況下，它就像一種到處生長的野草。

But democracy needs some preconditions.

但民主需要一些先決條件。

And one of the preconditions is that the people in the country, they can see each other as their political rivals, but not as their enemies when two halves of a nation increasingly see the other half as their enemy that is out to get them to destroy their way of life.

先決條件之一是，該國人民可以把對方看作是他們的政治對手，而不是他們的敵人，當一個國家的兩半人越來越多地把另一半人看作是他們的敵人，是為了破壞他們的生活方式。

Democracy just can't survive in this situation.

在這種情況下，民主就是無法生存。

You will do anything to win the elections, legal or illegal and if you lose, you don't accept the results?

為了贏得選舉，你會不擇手段，不管是合法的還是非法的，如果你輸了，你不接受結果？

How does a country, the size of America even begin to fix that problem.

一個像美國這麼大的國家，如何開始解決這個問題。

And do you think it's something that should be at the forefront of whoever is the next President of United States?

你認為無論誰是下一任美國總統，這都應該是最重要的事情嗎？

Yes, I think this is the biggest threat to the United States right now, is the threat to the democratic system itself.

是的，我認為這是目前對美國最大的威脅，是對民主制度本身的威脅。

I mean, there is a chance.

我的意思是，有一個機會。

It's not a big chance.

這不是一個很大的機會。

But there is a chance that the next presidential election would be the last democratic election in U.

但是，下一次總統選舉有可能是美國的最後一次民主選舉。

S.

S.

History.

歷史。

I mean democracy.

我是說民主。

What percentage would you put on that chance?

你會在這個機會上投入多少百分比？

I don't know.

我不知道。

Like 20% but 20%.

像20%，但也是20%。

It's still it's still huge.

它仍然是它仍然是巨大的。

It was not like that 10 or 20 years ago and it's a one way street.

10年或20年前不是這樣的，這是一條單行道。

I mean, it's quite easy to kind of for democracy to disintegrate into some kind of authoritarian regime.

我的意思是，民主制度很容易解體為某種獨裁政權。

It's much much harder to get back.

要找回來就難得多了。

Do you think we're going to be okay?

你認為我們會好起來嗎？

That depends on the choices we make.

這取決於我們的選擇。

You know, whether on the level of a country or the entire species, it's the future is not written anywhere.

你知道，無論是在一個國家的層面上，還是在整個物種的層面上，它的未來都沒有寫在任何地方。

It's not deterministic.

這不是決定性的。

History is never deterministic.

歷史從來不是決定性的。

It's the outcome of the decisions all of us make in the coming days and weeks and months, there is no responsible adult up there.

這是我們所有人在未來幾天、幾周和幾個月內所做決定的結果，上面沒有負責任的成年人。

That if we make the wrong decisions will intervene to save us from ourselves.

如果我們做了錯誤的決定，就會干預，把我們從自己手中拯救出來。

If we make the wrong, the really wrong decisions, it will be up to the rights.

如果我們做出了錯誤的、真正錯誤的決定，將由權利來決定。

I mean, come back.

我是說，回來吧。