Former Finance Minister Rishi son today gained the backing of his Conservative Party to win the leadership of that party.

前財政部長Rishi son今天獲得了他所在的保守黨的支持，贏得了該黨的領導權。

His predecessor Liz truss, she had to stand down when financial markets rejected her economic plans knocks first task will be to restore confidence in the UK government's finances.

他的前任Liz Truss，在金融市場拒絕了她的經濟計劃後不得不下臺，Knocks的第一個任務將是恢復對英國政府財政的信心。

Rishi, Sonar receives a warm welcome, he's cheered and greeted at the Conservative party headquarters, will take over the top job from less trust who quit just after a few weeks in office.

裡希，索納受到熱烈歡迎，他在保守黨總部受到歡呼和迎接，將從剛上任幾周就辭職的少信手中接過最高工作。

But sonic faces tough challenges such as tackling soaring energy and food prices and a deep political crisis.

但聲波面臨著嚴峻的挑戰，如解決能源和食品價格飆升以及深刻的政治危機。

He will be the third prime minister this year.

他將是今年的第三位總理。

The United Kingdom is a great country but there is no doubt we face a profound economic challenge.

聯合王國是一個偉大的國家，但毫無疑問，我們面臨著深刻的經濟挑戰。

We now need stability and unity and I will make it my utmost priority to bring our party and our country together.

我們現在需要穩定和團結，我將把使我們的黨和我們的國家團結起來作為我的最優先任務。

As Finance Minister earned praise for supporting the lead of workers and businesses during the pandemic.

作為財政部長，他在大流行期間支持工人和企業的上司，贏得了讚譽。

But as one of the wealthiest politicians in the UK, he has also been criticized for his lavish lifestyle, especially at a time when ordinary people are struggling.

但作為英國最富有的政治家之一，他也因其奢侈的生活方式而受到責備，尤其是在普通人掙扎的時候。

But Xanax victory is also historic.

但是Xanax的勝利也是歷史性的。

He is the first British Prime Minister of South Asian origin.

他是第一位南亞裔的英國首相。

He is also the first Hindu to become the country's leader and the youngest, the UK has seen in 200 years For more now I'm joined by Nicholas Allen, he's a professor of politics at the Royal Holloway University in London.

他也是第一個成為國家領導人的印度教徒，也是英國200年來最年輕的領導人。 現在我請尼古拉斯-艾倫加入，他是倫敦皇家霍洛威大學的政治學教授。

It's good to have you on the program with this.

很高興你能參加這個節目。

Let me ask you, considering what we've seen in these past few months.

讓我問你，考慮到我們在過去幾個月中看到的情況。

Is there reason to believe tonight that Rishi soon will be UK Prime Minister for longer than 45 days?

今晚是否有理由相信，裡希很快就會成為英國首相，而且時間超過45天？

I think there's a good chance that he will last longer than this.

我認為他很有可能會堅持得比這更久。

Trust.

信任。

It's almost impossible for him not to last longer.

他幾乎不可能不持續更長時間。

I think the likelihood of him inflicting economic catastrophe on himself.

我認為他給自己造成經濟災難的可能性很大。

I don't think that's gonna happen.

我不認為那會發生。

So the the self inflicted problems that this trust brought upon himself that ended their premiership.

是以，這種信任給自己帶來的自作自受的問題，結束了他們的總理職位。

That's not gonna happen.

那是不可能的。

And the other thing that has to his advantage is I think the mps in the Conservative Party just know they are now in the last chance saloon and they'll give him a little bit of a ride, a little bit of an easy passage, at least to start with.

對他有利的另一件事是，我認為保守黨的議員們知道他們現在處於最後的機會，他們會給他一點兒機會，一點兒輕鬆的機會，至少在開始時。

So, I think he should be on course to last a bit longer.

是以，我認為他應該能堅持得更久一些。

Can trust, you know, only seven weeks ago, Britain's conservatives.

可以信任，你知道，僅在七週前，英國的保守派。

They chose Liz truss over Rishi soon knock.

他們很快就選擇了利茲-桁架而不是裡希-敲。

And yet at the time that he lost that race, he was warning that this mini budget which we know trust proposed could have dire consequences.

然而，在他輸掉那場比賽的時候，他警告說，我們知道信任提出的這個小型預算可能會有可怕的後果。

And that is exactly what happened.

而這正是所發生的事情。

He could have said today.

他今天可以說。

I told you so, but he did not.

我告訴過你，但他沒有。

What message does that send?

這發出了什麼資訊？

I think he has a difficult path to tread his criticisms of Liz Truss is economic policies, the program on which she was actually elected by Conservative Party members.

我認為他有一條艱難的道路要走，他對Liz Truss的責備是經濟政策，她實際上是由保守黨成員選舉出來的方案。

And he doesn't even need to point out that she got that wrong because everyone can see it.

而且他甚至不需要指出她弄錯了，因為每個人都能看到這一點。

And already the second chancellor that Liz truss appointed second Finance minister, jeremy Hunt reversed those policies.

而莉茲-特拉斯任命的第二任財政部長傑里米-亨特已經推翻了這些政策。

So I think that doesn't need to say I told you so because everyone knows that he told us so.

所以我認為不需要說我告訴過你，因為每個人都知道他是這樣告訴我們的。

So I think in that sense, in his pursuit of unity within the party, he can afford to speak very softly, shall we say in terms of criticizing his predecessor?

是以，我認為從這個意義上說，在他追求黨內團結的過程中，他可以承受非常柔和的言辭，我們可以說在責備他的前任方面？

Yeah.

是的。

And pick up on the word ford son is fantastically wealthy.

並接上福德兒子的字樣，是幻想中的財富。

He's one of the richest people in the U.

他是美國最富有的人之一。

K.

K.

Um he was involved in his own tax scandal earlier this year.

嗯，他在今年早些時候捲入了自己的稅務醜聞。

Is there going to be a large chasm for him to bridge between himself and ordinary britons right now.

現在他和普通英國人之間是否會有一個很大的鴻溝需要彌合。

Who many who are just struggling, you know, to deal with inflation.

許多人只是在掙扎，你知道，要處理通貨膨脹問題。

I mean, first of all politicians, all conservative politicians are probably perceive more or less as being out of touch with ordinary voters.

我的意思是，首先，所有的政治家，所有的保守派政治家都可能或多或少地被認為是與普通選民脫節的。

So in a sense he's not in any different position to anyone else.

所以從某種意義上說，他的處境與其他人沒有任何不同。

Clearly, his enormous wealth is something that his opponents might want to use to their advantage in terms of criticizing highlighting, highlighting his being out of touch but I don't think he per se is going to be any more out of touch with what voters think than sailors trust me, not least is he is a constituency mp.

顯然，他的巨大財富是他的對手可能想利用的東西，在責備突出他的優勢，突出他的脫節，但我不認為他本身會比水手更脫離選民的想法，相信我，更重要的是他是一個選區的mp。

He is expected and does keep in touch with his constituents and his constituency party.

人們期望他能與他的選民和他的選區政黨保持聯繫，並且確實如此。

So he's gonna have his finger on the pulse as much or as little as really any other Conservative Minister, Nicholas Allen, professor of politics at the Royal Holloway University of London, we appreciate your time and your insights tonight.

是以，他將和其他保守黨部長一樣，掌握著脈搏，尼古拉斯-艾倫，倫敦皇家霍洛威大學的政治學教授，我們感謝你今晚的時間和你的見解。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Well, for more now, I'm joined by roger Kassala, he's a former member of parliament for the Labor Party in the U.

好了，現在有請羅傑-卡薩拉加入，他是美國工黨的前國會議員。

K.

K.

He now lives in Italy, roger.

他現在住在意大利，羅傑。

It's good to have you back on the program.

很高興你能回到節目中來。

It's good to see you again.

很高興再次見到你。

Let me ask you about what's happened here.

讓我問問你這裡發生了什麼。

We've had three UK prime ministers in less than two months time.

在不到兩個月的時間裡，我們已經有了三位英國首相。

We've had, I think, four finance ministers in four or five months.

我想，在四五個月內，我們已經有四位財政部長。

I mean, it's been said this week that British politics now looks a lot like Italian politics.

我的意思是，本週有人說，英國政治現在看起來很像意大利政治。

You live in Italy now, what do you say about your home country from your vantage point?

你現在住在意大利，從你的角度看，你對你的家鄉有何評價？

Well, it looked good evening.

嗯，晚上看起來不錯。

Very great to see you.

非常高興見到你。

Yeah, it looks like old style italian politics, but new style of italian politics seems to be much more stable.

是的，這看起來像舊式的意大利政治，但新式的意大利政治似乎更穩定。

So you say, four finance ministers, three Prime ministers, don't forget Britain has also had to monarchs in the last two months and it's had the mother of all financial crisis.

所以你說，四位財政部長，三位首相，別忘了英國在過去兩個月裡也有過君主，它有過所有金融危機之母。

And it's a very unusually volatile time for all of british institutions at the moment.

而目前對所有英國機構來說，這是一個非常不尋常的動盪時期。

And I think that's phase people, it's it's very unusual and politics is it's not like bungee jumping.

我認為這就是相人，它是非常不尋常的，政治是它不像蹦極。

You know, I think sometimes people think from the outside that's what it can look like.

你知道，我認為有時人們從外面看，認為這就是它可以看起來像。

You march your leaders up to the top of the platform and throw them off again and see what happens.

你讓你的領導人走到平臺的頂端，再把他們扔下去，看看會發生什麼。

But of course people don't want that happening with their lives.

但人們當然不希望自己的生活發生這種情況。

And I think that from the point of view of the public from the citizens of the U.

我認為，從公眾的角度來看，從美國公民的角度來看。

K.

K.

It's a worrying time.

這是一個令人擔憂的時刻。

It's an anxious time.

這是一個令人焦慮的時刻。

Very very unstable and they want their political leaders and they want the political system to get a grip.

非常非常不穩定，他們希望自己的政治領袖，希望政治系統能夠得到控制。

I want to ask you about the incoming government legitimacy.

我想問你關於即將成立的政府的合法性。

First take a listen to what your former party, the opposition Labor Party, what they're saying about this incoming government.

首先聽聽你的前黨，反對黨工黨，他們對這個即將上任的政府是怎麼說的。

Take a listen everybody I've spoken to the public have said we should be having a general election.

聽一聽，我和公眾談過的每個人都說我們應該舉行大選。

There is no mandate.

沒有任何授權。

Now the conservatives are completely broken, their promises broke our economy and now they want to see a general election.

現在，保守派已經完全崩潰了，他們的承諾破壞了我們的經濟，現在他們想看到大選。

They can't just keep doling out Prime ministers every month because they're in total chaos and they've lost control of the market and haven't got any ideas of how they're going to tackle the cost of living that people are facing.

他們不能只是每個月不停地發放總理，因為他們完全處於混亂之中，他們已經失去了對市場的控制，並且沒有任何想法，他們將如何解決人們所面臨的生活成本問題。

I mean, she's very clear about where she stands, polls also show that a new election would be a disaster for the conservatives.

我的意思是，她非常清楚自己的立場，民意調查也顯示，新的選舉對保守派來說是一場災難。

So it's not in their interest to call early elections, is it would it be in the country's interest?

是以，提前舉行選舉不符合他們的利益，難道會符合國家的利益嗎？

Well, remember that when Gordon Brown took over from Tony Blair, there was not a general election.

那麼，請記住，當戈登-布朗接替託尼-布萊爾時，並沒有舉行大選。

So you don't have to have a general election when you change the Prime minister in the UK.

是以，在英國，當你更換首相時，你不必進行大選。

But you can see the argument for it, given the situation that we're in and the fact that we've had so many changes of prime minister.

但是你可以看到它的論點，鑑於我們所處的情況，以及我們已經有這麼多總理更換的事實。

But the conservatives still have a big majority in the house of commons and they're not going to go to the pole to the polls, call another election when the polls put labor so far ahead.

但保守派在下議院仍有很大的多數，他們不會去投票，在民調顯示工黨遠遠領先的情況下再舉行選舉。

And the problem that she said, it's not just about its legitimacy is political legitimacy.

而她說的問題，不僅僅是它的合法性是政治合法性的問題。

It's also about the credibility of the conservatives.

這也關係到保守派的可信度。

And that's what he wants to re establish first.

而這正是他想首先重新建立的。

They the conservatives economic credibility, its reputation for being competent with the economy has been completely shattered and Russia sooner will try to rebuild that.

他們保守派的經濟信譽，其對經濟有能力的聲譽已經完全被打碎了，俄羅斯很快就會試圖重建這種信譽。

But in rebuilding that I think there is a danger for him in that he he will espouse very difficult economic measures and that will bring further unpopularity.

但在重建過程中，我認為他有一個危險，那就是他將支持非常困難的經濟措施，這將帶來更多的不受歡迎的情況。

So, I think what will happen is that he will continue through to 2024 then probably the next occupant of Downing Street will be the leader of the Labor Party, keir Starmer because the tough they're unpopular at the moment and the policies that we will have to adopt to re establish the credibility and the and to make the economy work, will be unpopular.

是以，我認為將會發生的是，他將繼續到2024年，然後唐寧街的下一任主人可能是工黨領袖凱爾-斯塔默，因為他們目前的強硬態度不受歡迎，我們必須採取的政策，以重新建立信譽，並使經濟運作，將是不受歡迎的。

We've heard from leaders across europe that what's most important is for stability to be restored in the UK.

我們從歐洲各國領導人那裡聽說，最重要的是在英國恢復穩定。

We heard that from the president of France just a couple of days ago, would Prime Minister, um is he going to be the the person who can do that?

我們幾天前剛從法國總統那裡聽到這句話，總理，嗯，他是否會成為能夠做到這一點的人？

Is he going to be the right partner for europe?

他將成為歐洲的正確夥伴嗎？

Well, that is well, that's what he's going to try to do.

好吧，這是好的，這就是他要嘗試做的事情。

Uh and I expect that's what he will do and it won't make him popular.

呃，我估計這就是他要做的事，這不會讓他受歡迎。

I think as far as europe is concerned, I'm glad you mentioned the european issue because that I think probably enough is at the heart of the problems that the Conservative party is facing the Britain is facing today because your viewers will know that the referendum took place a long time ago and they will say, well, why people still talking about Brexit and they're not really still talking about Brexit.

我認為就歐洲而言，我很高興你提到了歐洲問題，因為我認為這可能足以成為保守黨所面臨的問題的核心，英國今天所面臨的問題，因為你的觀眾會知道公投是在很久以前舉行的，他們會說，好吧，為什麼人們還在談論英國脫歐，他們並不是真的還在談論英國脫歐。

But Brexit isn't really done.

但英國脫歐並沒有真正完成。

The Conservative Party has got to articulate a vision for Britain's future post Brexit.

保守黨必須為英國脫歐後的未來闡明一個願景。

And it has been unable to do that.

而它一直無法做到這一點。

And there are two contrasting views within the Conservative Party about what that vision for Britain's future looks like.

而在保守黨內，對於英國未來的願景，有兩種截然不同的看法。

On the one hand, those so called Singapore, on the thames very free market view that Liz truss and her supporters had, which has been jettisoned now has been seen off because that was an absolute disaster.

一方面，那些所謂的新加坡，在泰晤士河上非常自由的市場觀點，Liz Truss和她的支持者有，現在已經被拋棄了，因為那是一個絕對的災難。

And on the other hand, the view that perhaps was more Boris johnson, some people around Boris johnson that you needed to focus on the domestic economy.

而另一方面，也許更多的是鮑里斯-約翰遜的觀點，鮑里斯-約翰遜身邊的一些人認為你需要關注國內經濟。

And I think she has got a difficult job to tread a middle way and to restore the credibility of the economic credibility of the conservative government while managing these contrasting tensions within the Tory party about what a post Brexit Britain should look like.

我認為她有一項艱鉅的工作，那就是走中間路線，恢復保守黨政府的經濟信譽，同時管理保守黨內關於脫歐後的英國應該是什麼樣子的這些對立的緊張關係。

And I think it's very difficult to see how you can resolve those tensions.

而且我認為很難看到你如何能夠解決這些緊張關係。

Yeah.

是的。

And you know what you're describing here is that maybe the curse of Brexit, which you discussed with me many times, going all the way back to that referendum back in 2016.

你知道你在這裡描述的是，也許英國脫歐的詛咒，你和我討論過很多次，一直追溯到2016年的公投。

Roger Castle is always good talking with you.

羅傑-卡塞爾與你交談總是很愉快。

We appreciate your time tonight.

我們感謝你今晚的時間。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Thank you.

謝謝你。

Ben.

本。