This week we have three segments.

本週我們有三個片段。

The first mortgage rates are sky high, then your employer probably knows you're watching this episode.

第一個抵押貸款利率高得驚人，那麼你的僱主可能知道你在看這一集。

We talked to jodi Kantor about how companies are spying on their employees and last we look into the backlash to Airbnb fees and chores, click on the time code below.

我們與jodi Kantor討論了公司如何監視他們的員工，最後我們研究了Airbnb費用和家務的反響，請點擊下面的時間代碼。

But first housing and the Fed this week, the Federal Reserve raised rates again with a third straight 75 basis point hike.

但首先是住房和美聯儲本週，美聯儲再次加息，連續第三次加息75個基點。

Fed Chief jerome Powell emphasized the importance of slowing inflation but also acknowledged the cost, higher interest rates, slower growth and a softening labor market are, are all painful for the public that we serve, but they're not as painful as failing to, to restore price stability and then having to come back and do it.

美聯儲主席鮑威爾強調了減緩通脹的重要性，但也承認成本，更高的利率、更慢的增長和疲軟的勞動力市場對我們所服務的公眾來說都是痛苦的，但它們並不像未能恢復價格穩定而不得不回來做那樣痛苦。

Uh, you know, down the road again.

呃，你知道，再往下看。

So with higher interest rates come higher, mortgage rates, the 30 year fixed is now the highest in 14 years.

是以，隨著利率的提高，抵押貸款利率也隨之提高，30年的固定利率現在是14年來的最高值。

And with those higher rates were finally starting to see a cooling real estate market here to discuss this.

而隨著這些更高的利率終於開始看到房地產市場的冷卻，在這裡討論這個問題。

Daryl Fairweather, chief economist for Redfin Darryl, we're seeing these higher mortgage rates right there.

Daryl Fairweather，Redfin的首席經濟學家Darryl，我們看到這些較高的抵押貸款利率就在那裡。

They're soaring.

他們正在飆升。

If you bought a house a year ago, you pay around 2 88 for a 30 year fixed rate.

如果你在一年前買了房子，你為30年的固定利率支付大約2 88。

Now, it's 6 29 how high do you think rates are gonna go up?

現在是6月29日，你認為利率會漲到多高？

It really depends on where inflation goes from here.

這真的取決於通貨膨脹的發展方向。

So right now, the market is predicting that inflation is going to get worse before it gets better.

所以現在，市場預測通貨膨脹在好轉之前會變得更糟。

That's why we've seen mortgage rates move up in recent weeks and as long as that perception is out there or gets worse than mortgage rates could continue to rise, it's not inconceivable that they could get close to 7%.

這就是為什麼我們看到抵押貸款利率在最近幾周有所上升，只要這種看法存在或變得更糟，比抵押貸款利率可能繼續上升，它們可能接近7%，這不是不可想象的。

But I think as soon as we do start to get some good news on inflate.

但我認為，只要我們確實開始得到一些關於充氣的好消息。

Which I think should be around the corner, mortgage rates will drop back down, they're not gonna drop all the way back down to 3% without us, without us entering into a recession, but they could drop it back down to more of a 5% range high 4%.

我認為這應該是在拐角處，抵押貸款利率將回落，他們不會在沒有我們，沒有我們進入經濟衰退的情況下一路回落到3%，但他們可以回落到更多的5%範圍內的4%。

So I think we're in for a long bout of just really expensive home buying and that's put a major cool on home sales.

是以，我認為我們將長期處於真正昂貴的購房階段，這給房屋銷售帶來了很大的壓力。

But the housing market is pretty resilient.

但住房市場是相當有彈性的。

The collateral damage is really just gonna come in terms of sales, it's going to take these interest rates affecting people's pocketbooks even outside of the housing market for inflation to really start to slow down.

附帶損害真的只是會在銷售方面出現，即使在住房市場之外，這些利率也會影響人們的錢包，通脹才會真正開始放緩。

Well, let's talk about prices.

好吧，讓我們來談談價格問題。

I mean, we have these higher mortgage rates right, and now we're finally starting to see a cooling real estate market, Do you think that prices are going to go down anytime soon?

我的意思是，我們有這些較高的抵押貸款利率吧，現在我們終於開始看到房地產市場的冷卻，你認為房價會很快下降嗎？

Prices are already going down on a monthly basis.

價格已經在逐月下降。

So you will be able to sell your home for less now than you would have been able to sell it for in, say March or February back when rates were closer to three or 4%.

是以，你現在能夠以低於你在3月或2月時的價格出售你的房屋，例如，當利率接近3％或4％時。

But the thing is that a lot of homeowners don't want to sell now that prices are even just a little bit lower, they're pulling their homes off the market, they're not selling at all, they're just bunkering down and waiting for the market to have a rebound.

但問題是，現在房價哪怕只是低了一點點，很多房主都不想賣，他們把房子從市場上撤下來，根本不賣，只是蟄伏起來，等著市場有反彈。

So as long as homeowners are able to hold out, we're not gonna see prices decline in any major way, they're probably not going to increase either.

是以，只要房主能夠堅持下去，我們就不會看到房價有任何大的下降，他們可能也不會增加。

But it's just kind of this staring war between buyers and sellers until buyers come back to the market with more money because rates come back down.

但這只是一種買家和賣家之間的凝視戰爭，直到買家帶著更多的錢回到市場，因為利率回落。

So let's talk about the buyer's side.

是以，讓我們來談談買方的問題。

What what would your advice be to a potential home buyer right now, The hardest part for buyers right now is just getting to the point of being able to afford the kind of home that they want because buyers budgets have been really constricted by these higher mortgage rates.

您對現在的潛在購房者有什麼建議？現在對購房者來說，最困難的部分是能夠買得起他們想要的那種房子，因為購房者的預算已經被這些較高的抵押貸款利率真正限制了。

The median priced home is now 40% more in terms of your monthly mortgage payment than it was a year ago.

現在中位數價格的房屋在你的月度按揭付款方面比一年前要多40%。

So a lot of buyers are moving down the price ladder to be able to afford at least a starter home.

是以，很多買家正在降低價格，以便至少能買得起一個入門級的房子。

Some buyers who could barely afford to start a home to begin with are now being pushed into the rental market, which puts more pressure on rents, which is a which is a factor into housing inflation.

一些一開始幾乎買不起房的買家現在被推入租房市場，這給租金帶來了更大的壓力，這也是影響住房通脹的一個因素。

So I think buyers right now if you can afford it, it's a great time to buy.

是以，我認為買家現在如果你能負擔得起，這是一個很好的購買時機。

You can still refinance that mortgage later.

你以後仍然可以對該抵押貸款進行再融資。

It's just really hard to get to that point of being able to afford what you want for someone who's a renter who missed the bottom interest rates.

只是對於那些錯過了最低利率的租房者來說，真的很難達到能夠負擔得起你想要的東西的程度。

That is good to hear.

這是很好的消息。

Thank you for coming on Darrell.

謝謝你來參加達雷爾會議。

So next up the rise of workplace surveillance is your employer tracking your every click.

是以，接下來，工作場所監控的興起是你的僱主跟蹤你的每一次點擊。

So since the pandemic and the rise of remote working, many employers across various industries are tracking, recording and electronically ranking their workers through surveillance soft for employers.

是以，自從大流行和遠程工作的興起，各行各業的許多僱主都在通過僱主的監控軟體來追蹤、記錄和電子化他們的工人。

Software quantifies efficiency, right?

軟件可以量化效率，對嗎？

But the critics, it's an unethical breach and a buggy one at that.

但批評者，這是一個不道德的違反行為，而且是一個有問題的違反行為。

Here to talk about this is jodi Kantor, the Pulitzer prize winning reporter for the new york Times who wrote this article, the rise of the worker productivity score Jodie.

這裡要談的是朱迪-康托爾，他是《紐約時報》普利策獎得主，寫了這篇文章，《工人生產力得分的上升》朱迪。

Can you walk us through some of the ways in your reporting that you found that employers are monitoring their workers?

你能向我們介紹一下你在報告中發現的僱主監督工人的一些方式嗎？

It's so much more common than I think any of us have realized.

這比我認為我們任何人所意識到的都要普遍得多。

I'll tell you two things quickly.

我會迅速告訴你兩件事。

One is that, you know, we said to ourselves what is actually the scope of these things.

一個是，你知道，我們對自己說，這些事情的範圍實際上是什麼。

So my colleague Aria Sundaram did a study of the top 10 employers in the US by volume by the number of employees they have and she found that eight out of the 10 of those employers are doing some sort sort of individual productivity monitoring and in many cases that's in real time.

是以，我的同事Aria Sundaram對美國排名前10位的僱主進行了一項研究，按他們擁有的僱員數量計算，她發現這10位僱主中有8位正在進行某種個人生產力監測，而且在許多情況下，這是實時的。

You know that's that's giving numbers as you go about your day minute to minute.

你知道那是在你每分鐘都在進行一天的工作時給出的數字。

The other thing I'll tell you is that, you know this is something we generally associate with warehouse work with lower paid jobs.

我要告訴你的另一件事是，你知道這是我們一般與倉庫工作有關的低薪工作。

That is not true anymore.

這已經不是事實了。

If you look at people who work at a pharmacy is people who work at insurance companies, academic administrators, even people who have M.

如果你看一下在藥房工作的人是在保險公司工作的人，學術管理人員，甚至是擁有M.的人。

B.

B.

A.

A.

S.

S.

Lawyers, even hospice chaplains.

律師，甚至臨終關懷的牧師。

These are people who are having much more productivity monitoring than ever before and they're saying things that lower income workers said for years, I've lost control.

這些人擁有比以往多得多的生產力監測，他們在說低收入工人多年來所說的事情，我已經失去控制。

I don't have agency in my own job.

我在自己的工作中沒有代理權。

I feel I feel that this is relentless and I feel that micromanagement has become the norm.

我覺得我覺得這是無情的，我覺得微觀管理已經成為常態。

I mean that's a good point, right?

我的意思是這是一個很好的觀點，對嗎？

We associate these analytics with like amazon warehouse workers and delivery workers.

我們把這些分析與像亞馬遜的倉庫工人和送貨工人聯繫起來。

This is what your article showed is that it's coming now for white collar workers knowing what we've known about this history of how employers are monitoring their workers.

這就是你的文章所顯示的，現在對白領工人來說，知道我們所知道的關於僱主如何監控工人的這段歷史，它正在到來。

Can you tell me how, you know, how are they using these analytics to both reward and punish workers?

你能告訴我，你知道，他們是如何使用這些分析方法來獎勵和懲罰工人的？

You know, part of what's so important here is that there are real consequences and impact.

你知道，這裡最重要的部分是，有真實的後果和影響。

Sometimes when we say surveillance, it just sounds so broad like okay, I'm being watched whatever I have nothing to hide in.

有時，當我們說監視時，它聽起來很寬泛，就像好吧，我被監視著，無論我有什麼可隱藏的。

We found cases where this was affecting both pay and firing and the biggest problem is that workers felt the software was not accurate.

我們發現在一些案例中，這既影響了工資，也影響了解僱，最大的問題是工人認為軟件不準確。

So, you know, health is, you know, a health insurance giant, they employ hundreds of thousands of people and they were using this idle time system that basically dinged you every time your computer was idle and that had real consequences that affected pay, it affected bonuses.

所以，你知道，健康是，你知道，一個健康保險巨頭，他們僱用了數十萬人，他們正在使用這個閒置時間系統，基本上每次你的電腦閒置都會被扣錢，這產生了真正的後果，影響工資，影響獎金。

But what workers told us is that they were really working during that time, they just weren't doing it on the computer.

但工人們告訴我們的是，他們在那段時間真的在工作，只是沒有在電腦上做。

For instance, we talked to therapists and social workers saying that in fact they were having very sensitive conversations, they were doing some of the hardest parts of their job and yet they were being marked idle, which is a very judgmental word, for lack of keyboard activity.

例如，我們與治療師和社會工作者交談時說，事實上他們正在進行非常敏感的對話，他們正在做他們工作中最困難的部分，但他們卻被標記為閒置，這是一個非常具有判斷力的詞，因為缺乏鍵盤活動。

The idea that the therapist should be on their computer at all times is kind of absurd.

治療師應該一直在他們的電腦上的想法是有點荒謬的。

It shows how how these can be used in these ways that maybe they aren't, you know, designed for, I want to ask you about what the companies themselves are saying, What's the rationale for putting the software on, you know, a worker's laptop.

它顯示了這些東西是如何以這些方式使用的，也許它們不是，你知道，設計的，我想問你，公司自己在說什麼，把軟件放在，你知道，工人的筆記本電腦上的理由是什麼。

You know, the most, the most interesting part of the article was talking to the people who really believe in this, whether it was the technology makers, the companies or even some workers who are pro monitoring what they essentially said is that this is a force for fairness in the workplace, that, you know, we've all been in situations where there's somebody who talks a good game but doesn't do much and gets more credit and then you have kind of a workhorse in the background who is carrying a heavy load, but you know, doesn't get the internal hype.

你知道，這篇文章最有趣的部分是與那些真正相信這一點的人交談，無論是技術製造商、公司，甚至是一些支持監測的工人，他們基本上說的是，這是工作場所公平的力量，你知道，我們都曾遇到過這樣的情況：有人說得很好，但做得不多，得到更多的榮譽，然後你有一種在後臺工作的人，正在承擔沉重的負擔，但你知道，沒有得到內部炒作的人。

They said these systems are designed to correct that and re really reward people who are doing the work and give managers insights to making things that are more fair.

他們說，這些系統旨在糾正這一點，並重新真正獎勵那些正在做工作的人，讓管理人員瞭解到使事情更加公平。

We even talked to people workers who said they craved more tracking in their workplace because they had sneaking suspicions that other people were slacking off and they resented the fact that they were being so dutiful and weren't necessarily seen or rewarded for it.

我們甚至和一些工人談過，他們說他們渴望在工作場所有更多的跟蹤，因為他們隱隱懷疑其他人在偷懶，他們對自己如此盡職盡責而不一定被看到或得到獎勵的事實感到不滿。

What kind of rights do employees have when it comes to this kind of monitoring?

當涉及到這種監控時，員工有什麼樣的權利？

You're asking the right question because part of what's going on here is that this is just not very regulated.

你問的問題是正確的，因為這裡發生的部分事情是，這只是沒有很好的監管。

There's very little oversight our labor laws in this country where they were founded like 100 years ago before anybody could conceive of this kind of tracking technology.

在這個國家，我們的勞動法很少受到監督，這些法律是在100年前建立的，當時還沒有人能夠想到這種跟蹤技術。

And part of why it it's so hard to understand.

這也是為什麼它如此難以理解的部分原因。

And it took it took us months of digging to figure this stuff out is that disclosure requirements are very uneven.

我們花了幾個月的時間才搞清楚這些東西，就是披露要求非常不均衡。

So I'm not trying to make anybody paranoid, but it is very possible that your company is recording the fact that you are watching CNN right now instead of working well, that puts into perspective.

是以，我不是想讓任何人變得多疑，但很有可能你的公司正在記錄你現在正在看CNN而不是工作的事實，這讓人看得很清楚。

Keep watching, keep watching.

繼續觀察，繼續觀察。

Thank you Jody, I really appreciate you Coming on.

謝謝你，喬迪，我真的很感謝你來。

Next up the battle over Airbnb fees this week.

接下來是本週的Airbnb費用之爭。

The Wall Street Journal reported on the backlash against excessive cleaning fees and the chore list that some Airbnb owners insist.

華爾街日報》報道了對過高的清潔費和一些Airbnb業主堅持的雜務清單的反感。

People follow things like doing the sheets running the dishwasher before you go.

人們遵循的事情，如在你走之前做床單運行洗碗機。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝你。

Here to discuss is CNN's Allison morrow.

這裡討論的是CNN的Allison morrow。

Alison, we've seen this kind of growing backlash online to Airbnb s.

艾莉森，我們已經在網上看到了這種對Airbnb s越來越多的反感。

I've seen it on Tiktok Online specifically to these cleaning fees and the chores that some people have to do.

我在Tiktok Online上看到，專門對這些清潔費和一些人必須做的家務。

The Wall Street Journal had the story, they mentioned a $299 a night.

華爾街日報》有這樣的報道，他們提到一晚299美元。

Airbnb in Sedona that comes with a $375 cleaning fee and the host piled on a laundry list of chores, which yes, okay is ridiculous.

塞多納的Airbnb，附帶375美元的清潔費，而且主人還堆積了一份雜事清單，是的，好吧，這很荒謬。

How bad do you think this is a problem for Airbnb?

你認為這對Airbnb來說是個多大的問題？

Yeah, john, it's really more of a pr blow than an existential threat.

是的，約翰，這其實更像是對人的打擊，而不是生存的威脅。

I think, you know, we've all had these stories of like Airbnb s that weren't what they seemed to be when we book them online.

我想，你知道，我們都有過這樣的故事，比如Airbnb的故事，當我們在網上預訂時，並不是他們看起來那樣。

There's a weird getting in the door process or weird like chores that you need to do.

有一個奇怪的進門過程或奇怪的像雜事一樣的事情需要做。

It's really annoying.

這真的很煩人。

Um, but I think the reason it's getting a lot of attention right now.

嗯，但我認為它現在得到很多關注的原因。

The underlying thing, like so many things right now in the consumer economy is inflation.

像現在消費經濟中的許多事情一樣，根本的東西是通貨膨脹。

People don't want to have to pay more for a stay that used to cost less, but you know, in fairness to the hosts who are renting out their homes, cleaning costs are going up, utility bills are going up everyday expenses are going up, so they have to raise prices in order to keep this a viable business.

人們不想為過去花費較少的住宿支付更多的費用，但是你知道，為了公平起見，那些出租房屋的主人，清潔費用在增加，水電費在增加，日常開支在增加，所以他們必須提高價格，以保持這種業務的可行性。

That's kind of always been the tension with Airbnb model where it's the hosts who set the prices well.

這一直是Airbnb模式的矛盾所在，在這種模式下，價格是由房東來確定的。

So as this meme of, you know, cleaning fees and chores and Airbnb kind of spreads Hilton hotels is now running an ad along these lines.

是以，當這種關於清潔費、家務事和Airbnb的備忘錄傳播開來時，希爾頓酒店現在正沿著這些路線做廣告。

We can see right here, huh, they look different online, jeez, that's a lot of rules when you prefer dream vacation over a rental nightmare sometimes.

我們可以在這裡看到，呵呵，他們在網上看起來是不一樣的，哎呀，當你喜歡夢想的假期而不是租賃的噩夢時，有時會有很多的規則。

Okay, so we're seeing this ad, how kind of, generally, how is the hotel industry positioned itself to compete with Airbnb right now?

好的，所以我們看到這個廣告，一般來說，酒店業現在是如何定位自己與Airbnb競爭的？

Yeah, that's clearly a very effective ad, like I was saying, you know, we've all had those nightmare scenarios where you don't get what you expected, uh but hotels have been trying to accommodate in the era of Airbnb to make a more home like experience, you know, a lot of more people are working remotely and staying for longer periods of time.

是的，這顯然是一個非常有效的廣告，就像我說的，你知道，我們都有那些噩夢般的場景，你沒有得到你所期望的，呃，但酒店一直在努力適應在Airbnb時代，使一個更像家庭的體驗，你知道，很多更多的人在遠程工作，住的時間更長。

So there are incentives, some hotels even have, you know, podcast recording studios that people can work out of um and, and they are really leaning into that idea of scale and being able to sell to customers, look, this is a convenient place to be, you know what you're getting.

是以，有一些激勵措施，一些酒店甚至有，你知道，播客錄音室，人們可以在那裡工作，而且，他們真的傾向於這種規模的想法，能夠向客戶銷售，看，這是一個方便的地方，你知道你得到什麼。

I think of it as kind of like the Starbucks model where you know, it may not be the best cup of coffee you're ever gonna have in your life, but it's gonna be reliable, it's gonna be hot and it's going to be safe and you know, people are willing to pay for that kind of peace of mind.

我認為這有點像星巴克的模式，你知道，它可能不是你一生中喝過的最好的一杯咖啡，但它會是可靠的，會是熱的，會是安全的，你知道，人們願意為這種心安理得的感覺付費。

Um but you know with Airbnb, the appeal is still there for something that's unique and you can really feel like you live in a place, it's especially good for group rentals.

但你知道Airbnb的吸引力仍然存在，因為它是獨特的，你可以真正感覺到你住在一個地方，它特別適合團體租賃。

Um So you know, it's almost two different parts of the travel industry at this point.

所以你知道，在這一點上，這幾乎是旅遊行業的兩個不同部分。

I don't think Airbnb or hotels are gonna put each other out of business anytime soon.

我不認為Airbnb或酒店會在短期內使對方倒閉。

Uh But Airbnb is now kind of scaling and it's running into these issues in an inflationary period.

呃 但是Airbnb現在有點規模化了，它在通脹時期遇到了這些問題。

Well, Alison from this host, I'm giving you five stars for this segment.

好吧，艾莉森從這個主持人，我給你這段話打五顆星。

That was great.

這很好。

I hope you know, please leave a rating for me to, you know, goes both ways.

我希望你知道，請給我留下一個評價，你知道，這是雙向的。

Five stars john that's all from us.

五顆星的約翰，這是我們的全部。

Don't forget to sign up for the night cap newsletter at CNN dot com slash nightcap, join us again next week at four p.m. Eastern right here at CNN business.

不要忘記在CNN dot com斜線夜班通訊上註冊，下週東部時間下午四點在CNN商業頻道再次加入我們。