Do you think those days are over when you could ever have principled, articulate um you know, coherent leadership?

你認為這些日子已經過去了，你可以擁有有原則的、明確的嗯你知道的、連貫的上司。

No, I know, I mean, I mean, the worrisome thing for us now in America and I think there's an echo here is that one of the things teddy Roosevelt warned against was that democracy would break if people in different regions and religions and races began seeing each other as the other rather than his fellow american citizens.

不，我知道，我的意思是，我的意思是，我們現在在美國令人擔憂的事情，我認為這裡有一個呼應，就是泰迪-羅斯福警告過的一件事是，如果不同地區、不同宗教和不同種族的人開始把對方視為他人，而不是他的美國同胞，民主就會破裂。

And that's certainly what's happened in our country.

而這肯定是我們國家所發生的事情。

There's been a polarization for years actually between the people in the rural areas, between older people who felt like the country had passed them by, They lost their manufacturing jobs, they lost their middle class status.

多年來，農村地區的人們之間實際上一直存在著兩極分化，老年人覺得國家已經與他們擦肩而過，他們失去了製造業的工作，他們失去了中產階級地位。

They felt the elites weren't paying attention to them.

他們覺得精英們沒有注意到他們。

They felt the system of education hadn't given their kids mobility and then the people on the coasts for whom the financial world has been very good to them.

他們覺得教育體系沒有給他們的孩子帶來流動性，然後是沿海地區的人，金融界對他們來說非常好。

And this huge gap has arisen between the rich and the poor.

而在富人和窮人之間出現了這種巨大的差距。

And the problem is that you need people going into politics whose desire is to heal those divisions and mr trump ran on exacerbating those divisions and is continuing to do so he found that group of people who were feeling hurt by the system and made them feel as if he were on their side.

而問題是，你需要有人進入政界，他們的願望是彌合這些分歧，而特朗普先生在競選時加劇了這些分歧，並在繼續這樣做，他找到了那群感到被制度傷害的人，並讓他們覺得他是站在他們一邊的。

And the one encouraging thing, which in and of itself is extraordinary because he is actually of the cause of their misery.

還有一件令人鼓舞的事，這本身就很不尋常，因為他實際上是屬於他們的痛苦的原因。

Absolutely.

絕對的。

And he's done nothing to help it.

而他沒有做任何事情來幫助它。

And and he but and and he came from from that world that they were feeling and somehow celebrity and entertainment projected itself.

而他卻來自於他們所感受到的那個世界，不知何故，名人和娛樂業投射出了自己。

I mean, that's the worrisome and a very loud mouth.

我的意思是，這就是令人擔憂和非常響亮的嘴巴。

And and and and you know, people in the rallies make America great again, isolationism, terribly unfair tariffs where, you know, America has been taken advantage of and immigrants are the cause.

而且，而且你知道，人們在集會上讓美國再次偉大，孤立主義，非常不公平的關稅，你知道，美國被利用了，移民是原因。

So he found a scapegoat for these people for what was their problem, which was nothing to do with immigrants.

所以他為這些人找到了一個替罪羊，以解決他們的問題，這與移民無關。

He's got a non diverse group of people who but there a core group, no matter what he does.

他有一個非多樣化的群體，但有一個核心群體，無論他做什麼。

I mean, it's so many times during the campaign, we think it's over when this access Hollywood cape came and he talked about how he could do anything to any woman because of his power.

我的意思是，在競選期間有很多次，當這個訪問好萊塢的斗篷來了，他談到他可以對任何女人做任何事情，因為他的權力，我們認為它已經結束了。

We thought it was over when he said john McCain, the senator wasn't a hero because he didn't break out of the prison.

當他說約翰-麥凱恩，這位參議員不是英雄，因為他沒有越獄時，我們以為事情已經結束。

You know, we thought that's the end.

你知道，我們以為這就是結局。

Um in fact, there's been so many times when we thought it's the end.

事實上，有很多次我們都認為這是結束了。

And yet somehow that base stays with him.

然而，不知何故，這個基地一直伴隨著他。

But I think to your larger question, the one encouraging thing about the midterms was that my worry has been in these last years that the best people are not entering public life.

但我認為對於你的更大的問題，中期選舉的一個令人鼓舞的事情是，在過去這些年裡，我一直擔心最好的人沒有進入公共生活。

And maybe that's why we have a earth of leadership.

也許這就是為什麼我們有一個領導層的地球。

They know, you know, their private lives are gonna be exposed by the media.

他們知道，你知道，他們的私人生活會被媒體曝光。

They know they're gonna have to spend huge amounts of their time raising money and they spend like four hours out of every day?

他們知道他們要花大量的時間來籌集資金，而他們每天要花4個小時的時間？

They say raising money, which means they've got to appeal to a small group of people who often are the wealthy people and it hasn't been fun being in politics.

他們說籌集資金，這意味著他們必須吸引一小群人，而這些人往往是有錢人，從政並不有趣。

I mean, congress has gotten so little done, there's been so little bipartisanship for so long.

我的意思是，國會所做的事情太少了，長期以來，兩黨之間的合作太少了。

Would you want to go into politics instead?

你是否想轉而從政？

These same people going into the financial world or they're going into to make money?

這些人同樣要進入金融界，或者他們要進入金融界來賺錢？

But the midterm elections were encouraging because a whole group of new people came into politics because of trump.

但中期選舉令人鼓舞，因為有一大批新人因為特朗普而進入政界。

They've been so energized.

他們已經非常有活力了。

So you had more women by far than ever, ever before.

是以，到目前為止，你有比以往任何時候都更多的女性。

Teachers and doctors, People who've never been in public life before.

教師和醫生，從來沒有參與過公共生活的人。

And you had young people voting 500% times more than they did in the last midterm, you had the largest midterm long term lines.

而你有年輕人投票，比他們在上一次中期選舉中多500%，你有最大的中期長期線。

So maybe the citizens are getting awakened to the fact that they have to take some responsibility because they voted, I mean, not they, but the young didn't vote as much as they should have a lot of Hispanics didn't vote like you would think they would have and now they're they're energized.

是以，也許公民們正在覺醒，他們必須承擔一些責任，因為他們投票了，我的意思是，不是他們，而是年輕人沒有像他們應該做的那樣投票，很多西班牙裔人沒有像你認為的那樣投票，現在他們他們被激發了。

So if that happens, maybe we'll see a change, but will those people who do those new people Ascend to leadership?

是以，如果發生這種情況，也許我們會看到一種變化，但那些做那些新人的人會不會升到上司地位？

Where does leadership come?

領導力從何而來？

I mean, they okay, they run against the grain and they've achieved.

我的意思是，他們還好，他們逆向思維，他們已經取得了成績。

But how do you, how do you believe that they will go forward, given that they're now doing it in the context of the social network of an election, for example, in America which cost $5 billion.

但你如何，你如何相信他們會繼續前進，鑑於他們現在是在社會網絡的背景下做的，例如，在美國的選舉，花費了50億美元。

You know, that the Hindrances are vast.

你知道，阻礙因素是巨大的。

I guess the hope I have is that every real change that's come place in our country has come from a movement.

我想我的希望是，在我們國家發生的每一個真正的變化都來自於一場運動。

I mean when Lincoln was called the Liberator, he said, um don't call me that.

我的意思是，當林肯被稱為解放者時，他說，嗯，不要這樣叫我。

It was the anti slavery movement that did it all.

是反奴隸制運動做了這一切。

And that's true.

這也是事實。

The anti slavery movement arose.

反奴隸制運動產生了。

It took years to develop.

它花了幾年時間來發展。

It then creates the old the republican party and then Lincoln becomes the spokesman for that.

然後，它創建了舊的共和黨，然後林肯成為該黨的代言人。

The progressive movement in the cities and states was there long before teddy Roosevelt and franklin Roosevelt and it already started settlement houses, there was a social gospel in the churches.

在泰迪-羅斯福和富蘭克林-羅斯福之前，各城市和各州的進步運動早已存在，它已經開始了安置房，教會中也有社會福音。

They were trying to soften the terrible aspects of the Industrial Revolution.

他們正試圖緩和工業革命的可怕方面。

And of course, the civil rights movement was there before Lyndon johnson.

當然，民權運動在林登-約翰遜之前就有了。

So what we need in our country and maybe here too is we need a political revolution.

是以，我們國家需要的，也許這裡也需要的，是我們需要一場政治革命。

The way we elect our presidents is no good.

我們選舉總統的方式是不好的。

The congressional boundaries are drawn by partisans gerrymandered.

國會的邊界是由黨派人士劃定的。

Um the money in the system is absolutely the poison.

嗯，系統中的錢絕對是毒藥。

Um, and and there's, you know, there's ways to change those things.

嗯，而且有，你知道，有辦法改變這些東西。

I mean, there's constitutional amendments to get rid of some of them.

我的意思是，有憲法修正案來擺脫其中的一些東西。

There's changes in the congressional boundary lines.

國會邊界線也有變化。

FDR said problems created by man can be solved by man.

FDR說，由人類創造的問題可以由人類來解決。

Um, So I guess I'm still optimistic that we've been through worse times before and we've come through them again.

嗯，所以我想我還是很樂觀的，我們以前經歷過更糟糕的時期，我們又走過來了。

But it's very hard to see.

但這是很難看到的。

It's because these guys that are coming into the Congress and these women are going to be a freshman, you know, and the leaders are the old people and even like nancy Pelosi, our speaker, If she wins, will she then go against these younger people that are saying they won't vote for her or will she have the generosity to realize?

這是因為這些即將進入國會的人和這些婦女將是一個新生，你知道，領導人是老人，甚至像南希-佩洛西，我們的議長，如果她贏了，然後她會去反對這些年輕的人，說他們不會投票給她，或者她會有慷慨的意識？

I've got to include them in the system even though they didn't vote for me.

我得把他們納入這個系統，儘管他們沒有投票給我。

It's it's a complicated thing.

這是一個複雜的事情。

But somehow we've got to believe that democracy is not failing.

但不知為何，我們必須相信民主沒有失敗。

Although I was saying to john, I saw an article in the paper the other day where it said that right now people in America they would, a parent would feel worse if their child married somebody from the opposite party than if they were different religions or races.

雖然我對約翰說，我前幾天在報紙上看到一篇文章，說現在美國人，如果他們的孩子與異性結婚，父母會覺得比他們是不同宗教或種族的人更糟糕。

That's how hyperpartisanship things are in our country.

這就是我們國家超黨派的情況。