Name: 民主是好是壞？- 納斯辯論會#3 (Is Democracy Good Or Bad? - Nas Debates #3)
Uploaded: 2022-05-29T17:05:27.000Z
Duration: 19 min 50 s

The truth of the matter is you are not qualified to be able to decide on the nuclear foreign policy of your country.

事情的真相是，你沒有資格能夠決定你們國家的核外交政策。

I may not be, but I can choose someone who will be and I certainly know who is it, is it Boris johnson, It may not be, but it's certainly not you Hi, welcome to Nasa debate today, we will talk about democracy.

我可能不是，但我可以選擇一個會是的人，我當然知道是誰，是鮑里斯-約翰遜嗎，可能不是，但肯定不是你 嗨，歡迎今天來到Nasa辯論，我們將討論民主。

Is it a democratic government or is there something better than democracy on my left debating pro democracy, I've got Alex, Wek mm hmm.

是民主政府還是有比民主更好的東西在我的左邊辯論親民主，我有亞歷克斯，魏克毫米嗯。

Hi everyone, my name is Alex and I'm gonna tell you why democracy is the best option out there to help the most people, thank you Alex and on my right I have no desire, who is voting against democracy?

大家好，我叫亞歷克斯，我要告訴你們為什麼民主是幫助大多數人的最佳選擇，謝謝你亞歷克斯，在我的右邊我沒有慾望，誰在投票反對民主？

Hello, everybody today, I would like to argue for the unpopular and I would like to say that democracy is not the best form of government today.

大家好，今天我想為不受歡迎的人辯解，我想說民主不是今天最好的政府形式。

Before we start, let me explain to you how this debate is going to work.

在我們開始之前，讓我向你們解釋一下這場辯論是如何進行的。

Our lovely audience has voted pro or against democracy at the moment it is 66% pro democracy.

我們可愛的觀眾已經投票支持或反對民主，目前是66%支持民主。

But at the end of the debate they will vote again and let's see who is more convincing, will it be Alex or will it be desire?

但在辯論結束後，他們將再次投票，讓我們看看誰更有說服力，是亞歷克斯還是慾望？

Now, let the debate begin Alex, I have a question for you, do you think my t shirt is pretty, Some people say yes, some people say my t shirt is ugly now, imagine if everybody in the world was forced to wear my T shirt that would be terrible, People have different tastes, we all agree the diversity of thought and diversity of governance is important, but for some reason when it comes to democracy, the West, which is where you come from, thinks that it's one size fits all, this is why we need a better form of democracy for more people around the world.

現在，讓辯論開始吧，亞歷克斯，我有一個問題要問你，你認為我的T恤衫漂亮嗎？有些人說是的，有些人說我的T恤衫現在很醜，想象一下，如果世界上每個人都被迫穿我的T恤衫，那就太可怕了，人們有不同的品味，我們都同意思想的多樣性和治理的多樣性很重要，但由於某些原因，在談到民主時，西方，也就是你來自的地方，認為它是一個尺寸適合所有人，這就是為什麼我們需要一個更好的民主形式，讓世界上更多人参與。

So no sire is easy to say that me, myself is from the United Kingdom and we have democracy, but actually my family came from outside the West all the way to the West to take part in democracy because they realize like many, many other people listening that democracy has so many good things about it that democracy provides safety, it provides comfort and it provides you with choice, that is why democracy has shown over time, that is the best form of government out there.

是以，說我，我自己來自英國，我們有民主，並不容易，但實際上我的家人從西方以外的地方一路來到西方，參加民主，因為他們像許多其他聽眾一樣，意識到民主有許多好處，民主提供安全，它提供舒適，它為你提供選擇，這就是為什麼民主隨著時間的推移顯示，這是最好的政府形式。

Great, great point Alex, you said democracy provides you with safety.

很好，偉大的觀點，亞歷克斯，你說民主為你提供了安全。

Senegal has democracy, kenya has democracy.

塞內加爾有民主，肯亞有民主。

The south side of Chicago in America has has democracy.

美國芝加哥的南部地區擁有民主。

In fact it is the most democratic government in the world yet there is no safety in the south side of Chicago, there is no safety at compton, there's no safety in some parts in the slums in kenya.

事實上，它是世界上最民主的政府，但在芝加哥南部沒有安全，在康普頓沒有安全，在肯亞的貧民窟的一些地方也沒有安全。

So the, the idea that democracy provides you with safety and opportunity and only democracy does that is wrong.

所以，那種認為民主為你提供安全和機會，只有民主才能做到的想法是錯誤的。

So safety is not just about security on the streets.

是以，安全不僅僅是指街道上的安全。

Safety also is the ability to choose your leader and decide who makes the laws and who decides the direction of the country, right?

安全也是選擇你的領導人，決定誰制定法律，誰決定國家的方向的能力，對嗎？

Some people say, oh it's the person with the PhD, but that doesn't mean they're going to make good decisions.

有些人說，哦，這是有博士學位的人，但這並不意味著他們會做出好的決定。

And at the end of the day it's subjective, right, Who is right, who is wrong?

而在一天結束時，它是主觀的，對嗎？誰是正確的，誰是錯誤的？

So if it's subjective, I want to be able to have a say in who may make the best decision and that is something that democracy provides, that others do not.

是以，如果它是主觀的，我希望能夠對誰可能做出最好的決定有發言權，而這是民主所提供的東西，是其他國家所沒有的。

And this is exactly why I have a problem with democracy Alex, you work in a corporation in the big big decisions at Nasa Academy.

而這正是我對民主有意見的原因，亞歷克斯，你在一個公司工作，在Nasa學院的重大決策中。

Do you let the software engineer take the decisions?

Do you let the designers take the decisions or do you as chief business officer take the decisions for others.

你是讓設計師做決定，還是你作為首席商務官為別人做決定。

The idea of democracy is that one vote equals one say is flawed because even if everybody deserves a voice, not every voice is equal in value.

民主的理念是一票等於一個發言權，這是有缺陷的，因為即使每個人都應該有發言權，但不是每個聲音都有同等價值。

So there's a big difference between a corporation and a country.

是以，公司和國家之間有很大的區別。

When I worked at a company, I have the choice to leave the company, but in the world today, if I live in a country, I don't always have a choice to leave that country.

當我在一家公司工作時，我可以選擇離開公司，但在今天的世界上，如果我住在一個國家，我並不總是可以選擇離開這個國家。

My passport may not allow me, I may be stuck there and so I want to be able to have a say over my leaders and the leader.

我的護照可能不允許我這樣做，我可能會被困在那裡，所以我希望能夠對我的上司和上司有發言權。

If it's not me, then it's going to be subjective who is the right person to decide who my leader is?

如果不是我，那麼就會是主觀的，誰是決定我的上司的合適人選？

Well, I think I'm the best Not you or not anyone else.

好吧，我想我是最好的 不是你也不是別人。

Do you think a uneducated person on the street should have a say of the nuclear policy of the United States or the UK?

你認為街上一個沒有受過教育的人應該對美國或英國的核政策有發言權嗎？

History has shown that in other countries where there isn't democracy, the person who to rules the country doesn't know more about nuclear policies.

歷史表明，在其他沒有民主的國家，統治國家的人對核政策並不瞭解。

There is no evidence that has shown that that person is better in a better position to make a decision.

沒有證據表明那個人更有能力做出決定。

I'm glad you bring that point because you're implying that democracy works Yet.

我很高興你提出這一點，因為你在暗示民主是可行的，然而。

We've exported democracy to 30 countries around the world, Kenya, Senegal Pakistan Bangladesh, are they richer?

我們已經向全世界30個國家輸出了民主，肯亞、塞內加爾巴基斯坦孟加拉國，他們更富有嗎？

Has democracy truly lifted the citizens that are watching right now or has it only generated conflict over conflict over conflict?

民主是否真正提升了現在正在觀看的公民，或者它只是產生了衝突又衝突？

Not everybody can live by the standards of your country.

不是每個人都能按照你們國家的標準生活。

不是每個民主國家都是完美的。

But the beauty of democracy is that every four or five years we can change the leader in every country you mentioned, we have the ability to choose a different leader if it's not working out in in a situation a country that doesn't have democracy, we are stuck and by the way, there are many countries that don't have democracy that are just as badly run as countries with democracies that don't quite work.

但民主的好處是，每隔四五年我們就可以更換你提到的每個國家的領導人，我們有能力選擇一個不同的領導人，如果在一個沒有民主的國家，我們就被困住了，順便說一下，有許多沒有民主的國家和有民主制度的國家一樣，經營得很糟糕，不大奏效。

You mentioned the beautiful thing about democracy is that it changes leaders every four years.

你提到民主的美麗之處在於它每四年更換一次領導人。

That's actually the terrible thing about democracy.

The biggest problems in your country, the sewer system in your country, the infrastructure in your country, the nuclear arsenal, the army in your country needs more than four years to fix, it needs 10 years to fix 15 years to fix what's happening in America or in democratic countries every four years there's a zigzag, there's a new policy heck you work at a startup to build a small startup.

你們國家最大的問題，你們國家的下水道系統，你們國家的基礎設施，你們國家的核武庫，軍隊需要四年以上的時間來解決，需要10年的時間來解決15年的時間來解決美國或民主國家每四年有一個人字形的問題，有一個新的政策他你在創業公司工作，建立一個小創業公司。

So that's what's great about democracy that have been over time is that they've established ways To have elected leaders change every four years but have a system under it that lasts much longer.

所以這就是民主制度的偉大之處，隨著時間的推移，他們已經建立了一些方法，讓當選的領導人每四年更換一次，但其下有一個持續時間更長的系統。

So the people in a good democracy, what you have is you have a civil service people who run the day to day of fixing the sewer or fixing the roads and then the overarching policies are decided by the people who change.

是以，在一個良好的民主制度下，你所擁有的是一個公務員隊伍，他們負責日常的修理下水道或修理道路的工作，然後總體政策是由改變的人決定。

是以，這意味著你可以同時擁有。

You can have your cake and eat it as well.

你可以擁有你的蛋糕，也可以吃它。

So what he, what he is saying that democracy works because we infuse a little bit of dictatorship in it.

所以他，他說的是，民主之所以有效，是因為我們在其中注入了一點獨裁的成分。

That's all you're saying because some part of the government does not change and people cannot vote to you're saying.

這就是你所說的，因為政府的某些部分沒有改變，人們不能投票給你說。

That's good, all I'm saying is let's make that the whole government.

這很好，我想說的是，讓我們把它變成整個政府。

Let's make the smartest 2000 people in the country Choose the direction of the country.

讓我們讓全國最聰明的2000人選擇國家的方向。

Democracy only works when the population is sufficiently educated and that's not the case in 90% of them.

民主只有在民眾受到充分教育的情況下才能發揮作用，而90%的民主都不是這樣的。

So sorry, this is where you're wrong, you think or the way you're talking is that there's only one way for a country to move forward and that's only decided by the smartest people.

所以對不起，這就是你錯的地方，你認為或者說你說話的方式是，一個國家只有一條路可以走，而這隻能由最聰明的人決定。

But in reality, the way the country moves away, a country moves forward is a choice.

但在現實中，國家的移動方式，一個國家的移動方式是一種選擇。

If the decision is going to be wrong, if there's gonna be mistakes made along the way, I would much rather have a role to play in those decisions than to let someone make mistakes without me having any say, no country has a binary choice.

如果決定會是錯誤的，如果一路上會有錯誤，我更願意在這些決定中發揮作用，而不是讓別人犯錯而我沒有任何發言權，沒有一個國家有二元選擇。

And you learn along the way, I want to play a role in my country, zigzag.

而且你一路上都在學習，我想在我的國家發揮作用，人字形。

Well actually Alex, there are some roads that are wrong.

嗯，實際上亞歷克斯，有一些道路是錯誤的。

我們是否以 "之 "字形脫離了它？

Through World War Two and 50 million deaths.

通過第二次世界大戰和五千萬人的死亡。

So who do we blame World War Two on the rise of Hitler?

那麼，我們把第二次世界大戰歸咎於希特勒的崛起是誰呢？

And what do we blame the rise of Hitler on the democratic government which enabled populism to exist.

而我們把希特勒的崛起歸咎於使民粹主義得以存在的民主政府，這又是什麼呢？

So in the case of World War Two, that was a very low point for democracy, but let's be clear, Democracy did not cause World War Two.

是以，就第二次世界大戰而言，那是民主的一個非常低點，但我們要清楚，民主並沒有導致第二次世界大戰。

What happened was is that the elected leader changed the system Germany did not become democratically elected leader Germany did not become a democracy anymore.

發生的情況是，當選的領導人改變了制度，德國沒有成為民主選舉的領導人，德國沒有再成為民主國家。

That's to do with the institutions around the democracy correct.

這與民主周圍的機構有關，是正確的。

But in a functioning government where there's smart people that are able to make the decisions they would say no to Hitler they would say no to trump because the average person could tell that there's something wrong with this leader.

但在一個正常運作的政府裡，有聰明人能夠做出決定，他們會對希特勒說不，他們會對特朗普說不，因為普通人可以看出這個領導人有問題。

We should not allow them to manipulate the rest of the population.

我們不應允許他們操縱其他人群。

Every leader comes and promises you a business seat in their plane but they don't know how to fly a plane.

每個領導人都來向你承諾在他們的飛機上有一個商務座位，但他們不知道如何駕駛飛機。

But hang on a second let's take that same period of time in the 20th century.

但等一下，讓我們以20世紀的同一時期為例。

Not only do we have Hitler with democracy but we had Stalin and Stalin was not a democracy and that led to millions of deaths.

我們不僅有希特勒的民主，而且有斯大林，斯大林不是民主，這導致了數百萬人的死亡。

So it's all very well saying that democracy gives you death.

所以說，民主給你帶來死亡，這很好。

But actually the alternatives give you death as well.

但實際上，替代品也會給你帶來死亡。

All I'm saying is that guys the rest of the world let me tell you something that the U.

我想說的是，夥計們，讓我告訴你們一件事，美國的其他國家。

And the british parliament will never tell you there is a better form of governance that we can explore together.

而英國議會永遠不會告訴你有一個更好的治理形式，我們可以一起探索。

You don't like dictatorship, but not the whole world wants to live by the ideals of one country.

你不喜歡獨裁，但不是整個世界都想按一個國家的理想生活。

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民主是好是壞？- 納斯辯論會#3 (Is Democracy Good Or Bad? - Nas Debates #3)

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