Just because we didn't really expect it to go on this long.

只是因為我們並沒有真正期望它能持續這麼久。

We just were having fun and we genuinely love filming together as a family, but I think we're all so happy.

我們只是在找樂子，我們真心喜歡作為一個家庭一起拍戲，但我認為我們都很開心。

We made it to 20 seasons.

我們做到了20季。

Like, genuinely so excited was their broad agreement that it was time did everybody, were there any stragglers that didn't want it to end?

就像，真正如此興奮的是他們廣泛的一致意見，是時候了，每個人都是如此，是否有任何散兵遊勇不希望它結束？

I think we all went back and forth.

我想我們都來回走動。

We made the decision kind of last minute and kind of quickly and we just all decided together, we were kind of unanimous and then we all called each other, remember it was on a weekend and we had till the monday to decide and so on the friday, we were like, okay, we're gonna do this, we're done.

我們是在最後一分鐘做出決定的，而且很快，我們只是一起決定，我們是一致的，然後我們都互相打電話，記得那是在週末，我們要到星期一才能決定，所以在星期五，我們就像，好吧，我們要做這個，我們完成了。

And then we went back and saturday, we all called each other and was like, are we making the right decision?

然後我們回去了，星期六，我們都互相打電話，就像，我們的決定是否正確？

Are you sure we should do this?

你確定我們應該這樣做嗎？

And we just kept on going back and forth on that.

我們就一直在這個問題上來回走動。

And then we all were like, listen, we're all going to have to, we're all sentimental, we all really love doing this and we love our our cruise so much that I think that was such a huge decision for us, um because we loved seeing them and working with them And we've been in our lives from season one.

然後我們都想，聽著，我們都要，我們都很感性，我們都很喜歡做這個，我們非常喜歡我們的郵輪，我想這對我們來說是一個巨大的決定，嗯，因為我們喜歡看到他們，和他們一起工作，我們從第一季開始就在我們的生活中。

So it was an emotional decision, but we all felt like it was the right decision.

所以這是一個感性的決定，但我們都覺得這是一個正確的決定。

So the finale takes place in Lake Tahoe and it's like the final family vacation for the show, right?

是以，結局發生在塔霍湖，這就像是該劇的最後一次家庭度假，對嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

And so we spoke on the phone I think just after you guys filmed it in December.

所以我們在電話中談到，我想就在你們12月拍攝之後。

And I remember you saying to me that you were kind of may be surprised that you weren't more emotional, but that maybe you thought you might get emotional when the final interviews happened back in L.

我記得你對我說，你對自己沒有更多的情感感到驚訝，但也許你認為當最後的採訪發生在L市時，你可能會變得激動。

A.

A.

Um and I just wondered like did that moment ever come, that sort of big?

我只是想知道，那一刻有沒有到來，那種大事件？

Yeah, I think my most emotional time was when we told our crew that we weren't gonna go forward after season 20, that was to me the most emotional week.

是的，我想我最激動的時候是當我們告訴我們的工作人員，我們不會在第20季之後繼續前進，那對我來說是最激動的一週。

I was so drained for literally an entire week after that just from all the calls and everyone reaching out and having all of that energy that to me was the most emotional.

在那之後的整整一個星期裡，我被所有的電話和每個人伸出的手以及所有的能量弄得筋疲力盡，對我來說，這是最激動人心的。

I think I was also super emotional when my um audio girl gave me my mic, she gave me my, my mic that I've had and they tracked down with the serial numbers that it was my mic through the 1st 10 seasons and then we switched to a different mike that they look identical I think for the last 10 seasons.

我想，當我的音頻女孩給我我的麥克風時，我也超級激動，她給了我，我的麥克風，我已經有了，他們通過序列號追蹤到這是我的麥克風，通過前10季，然後我們換了一個不同的麥克風，他們看起來完全一樣，我想在最後10季。

But she gave me my original mike that I started with and gave every family member and exactly how it was labeled.

但她給了我最初的麥克，我開始時給了每個家庭成員，並確切地說是給了它的標籤。

They're all labeled with like a A regular labeler.

它們都是用像A型普通貼標機貼的標籤。

And it's just really special.

而且它真的很特別。

It's funny to think about the idea of only only a sort of a reality show star that's been filmed for 20 seasons, could feel sentimental value, you know, like just even sitting in a chair for the last time.

想一想，只有一種被拍攝了20季的真人秀明星，才能感受到感情上的價值，你知道，就像甚至最後一次坐在椅子上，這很有趣。

It was emotional, everything just I thought I'm really gonna miss these interviews, I miss all these people, but our crew is family to us so that I think was the hardest part of letting go of the show is just knowing that we won't see these people every day.

這是情感上的，一切都只是我想我真的會想念這些採訪，我想念所有這些人，但我們的工作人員是我們的家人，所以我認為這是放下節目的最困難的部分，只是知道我們不會每天看到這些人。

So I started watching the show from the very first episode because remember I told you that I did not um uh watched the show before I interviewed you in 2000 and 19 for the first time.

所以我從第一集開始看這個節目，因為記得我告訴過你，我在2000年和19年第一次採訪你之前沒有嗯嗯看這個節目。

Well I finally went back and watched, starting from episode one and it's um it's quite a chore, There's like 290 episodes and that's not even including All the spin offs, which is I think 10 or 11 of them.

我終於回去看了，從第一集開始看，嗯，這是個很麻煩的事情，好像有290集，這還不包括所有的衍生劇，我想有10或11集。

Do you have, do you find like a reason to go back and look at something?

你是否有，你是否發現像一個理由，回去看一些東西？

I haven't every once in a while, there will be a some reruns on and I'll flip through it and see the outfits and think it's so funny or just like loving reminiscing about the houses that we were in and just the things that we were doing and I love seeing that, but I haven't really gone back and watched, right, I really see you come to life, like you find your voice and you find your footing like after a few years and even the sound of your voice changes.

我沒有，每隔一段時間，會有一些重播，我會翻開它，看到那些服裝，覺得很有趣，或者只是喜歡回憶我們在的房子，只是我們在做的事情，我喜歡看到這些，但我沒有真的回去看，對，我真的看到你活過來了，就像你找到你的聲音，你找到你的立足點，就像幾年後，甚至你的聲音會改變。

I know that's the biggest mystery to me and my sisters, we are blown away.

我知道這對我和我的姐妹們來說是最大的謎團，我們被嚇到了。

It's the thing that has this absolutely blown away.

這是讓這個絕對被吹走的東西。

We have no idea what happened to our voices.

我們不知道我們的聲音發生了什麼。

We have completely different voices, your voice deepens all of ours do, but I sort of more your, it just feels more commanding, you're like, even if I'm just watching you become the person that I met a couple of years ago, like because it was jarring in the beginning to watch you before you seem so young to me, you know, I was, I was and all of those experiences, I mean I looked back and I think oh my God, there's so many embarrassing things that are on tv for the world to see, but then you have to kind of just understand that I'm so grateful for also the evolution because I've learned so much.

我們有完全不同的聲音，你的聲音加深了我們所有的聲音，但我有點更你的，它只是感覺更多的命令，你就像，即使我只是看著你成為我幾年前遇到的那個人，就像因為一開始看著你在我看來如此年輕之前是很刺眼的。你知道，我是，我是和所有這些經驗，我的意思是我回頭看，我想哦，我的上帝，有這麼多尷尬的事情，在電視上讓世界看到，但然後你必須種只是理解，我很感激也進化，因為我已經學到了很多。

So I'm happy that we were able to be on for so long for people to see that and to see now I can look back and kind of like laugh and you know, make fun of maybe my outfits or my voice or just even where we were emotionally, but we were also, I think the thing that I'm most proud about, like we were just all in it together but people can really see that and they can see the evolution and I'm just so glad that we stuck around long enough for people to get that.

所以我很高興我們能夠堅持這麼久，讓人們看到這一點，看到現在我可以回過頭來，有點像笑，你知道，取笑我的服裝或我的聲音，甚至只是我們在情感上的位置，但我們也是，我想我最自豪的事情，就像我們只是在一起，但人們真的可以看到，他們可以看到演變，我只是很高興，我們堅持足夠長的時間，讓人們得到這些。

And for me to even personally have those experiences because I'm I used to think before I'm you know trying to rush you know being a mom and trying to rush all of that and you see that and I'm so glad I remember my dad used to always tell me wait until your early thirties or mid thirties before you have babies.

對我來說，我甚至親自有這些經歷，因為我以前認為我想趕著做媽媽，想趕著做所有的事情，你看，我很高興，我記得我爸爸以前總是告訴我，等到你三十出頭或三十歲左右再生孩子。

Trust me just wait don't do it in your early twenties or um it'll just be the right time.

相信我，只是等待，不要在你二十歲出頭的時候做，否則嗯，就會有合適的時機。

And he was so right and I always thought about that even if my friends or Courtney we're having babies so much earlier.

他說得很對，我一直在想，即使我的朋友或考特尼我們這麼早就有了孩子。

I just knew When it finally was my time that it was the right time and I'm so glad that my kids get this version of me rather than the 20 something year old version of me.

我只是知道當它最終成為我的時間時，它是正確的時間，我很高興我的孩子們得到了這個版本的我，而不是20多歲的我的版本。

And that makes me just proud to see all of that on T.

這讓我為在T上看到所有這些而感到自豪。

V.

V.

And one day I can show that back to them if they're ever interested.

有一天，如果他們有興趣的話，我可以把這些東西拿回去給他們看。

Well it's an amazing sort of you you are a person who likes to archive and save things and everything and you're as I think you said to me on the phone one day that if you saw how organized I was you'd freak like um and the show is an archive in that way, just to have all of those Memories and home videos, like the most well shot home videos continuously for almost 15 years.

嗯，這是一個驚人的排序，你是一個喜歡存檔和保存東西和一切的人，你就像我想你有一天在電話裡對我說的那樣，如果你看到我是多麼有條理，你會抓狂的，嗯，這個節目就是這樣的一個檔案，只是擁有所有這些記憶和家庭錄像，像最精心拍攝的家庭錄像連續了將近15年。

That's amazing.

這真令人吃驚。

I grew up with so many home videos, that's why we kind of intertwine them.

我在許多家庭錄像中長大，這就是為什麼我們把它們交織在一起。

You see a lot of flashbacks and you see a lot of cuts of us as kids in the show, because we just had so much footage of us growing up, because that's all my dad did would video everything.

你會看到很多倒敘，你會看到劇中有很多我們小時候的剪影，因為我們有很多我們成長的片段，因為我父親做的就是把所有的東西都拍下來。

And so it's kind of like a continuum of that.

是以，這有點像一個連續的過程。

One of the things that c c said to me that I loved was I was basically trying to get her to say, answer, answer the question, why do you think so many millions of people around the world have connected with this family?

C C對我說的一件事讓我很喜歡，我基本上是想讓她說，回答，回答這個問題，為什麼你認為全世界有那麼多的人與這個家庭有聯繫？

And she said, well, part of it is that kim is one of the authors of social media and I just thought that was such an interesting way to put it.

她說，嗯，部分原因是Kim是社交媒體的作者之一，我只是認為這是一個非常有趣的說法。

Being an author myself that you sort of wrote the book on it in a way, you know what I mean?

作為一個作家，我認為你在某種程度上寫了這本書，你知道我的意思嗎？

And I wondered how that strikes you and how you see your role in the rise of social media.

我想知道這對你有什麼影響，你如何看待自己在社交媒體崛起中的作用。

I wouldn't have looked at it that way, but it's interesting to think about it like that, I would definitely say, and I've heard this before is that I I've definitely realized how to use social media as a tool to enhance my business and how to use it as a focus group and I always would take everything that I was working on and put a little piece of it out there on social media to get a reaction to get that focus group of questions that I needed answer colors.

我不會這樣看，但這樣想很有意思，我肯定會說，我以前也聽過這樣的話，就是我我肯定意識到如何利用社交媒體作為工具來提高我的業務，如何利用它作為一個焦點小組，我總是會把我正在做的一切，把它的一小部分放在社交媒體上，以獲得反應，獲得我需要答案顏色的那個焦點小組的問題。

I couldn't pick sense.

我無法挑選出意義。

I couldn't, I would always show people a little bit of my design and have them be a part of that world with me and feel it happened organically.

我不能，我總是向人們展示我的一點設計，讓他們和我一起成為那個世界的一部分，感覺它是有機地發生的。

But I realized later, it made the fan or the customer feel like they're invested in that product because they helped me pick the color of the bottle.

但我後來意識到，這讓粉絲或顧客感到他們對該產品有投資，因為他們幫助我挑選了瓶子的顏色。

They helped with my decision process along the way.

他們在我的決策過程中一路幫助。

It's not as easy as it looks though.

不過，這並不像看起來那麼容易。

It does look very easy on the internet, whether it's, you know, promoting makeup or you know, skims or anything that I'm doing, it's a full time job and it's extremely time consuming and it's not as easy as it may appear to some people.

它在互聯網上看起來確實非常容易，無論是，你知道的，推廣化妝品或你知道的，脫脂或任何我正在做的事情，它是一個全職工作，它非常耗時，它不像它在一些人看來那麼容易。

Yeah, it's funny, interviewed Ashley Graham for vogue and I followed her around one afternoon when she was interviewing Gayle King and before anybody said a single word about anything to do with the interview.

是的，這很有趣，我為《時尚》雜誌採訪了阿什利-格雷厄姆，有一天下午她在採訪蓋爾-金的時候，我跟著她，在任何人對採訪的任何事情說一個字之前。

They could not stop convincing about Skims because they've both gotten um a package I think from you and they were talking about Martha Stewart being so excited about skins and that's kind of how I knew that the whole thing was going to be kind of huge.

他們無法停止說服關於皮膚的事情，因為他們都從你那裡得到了一個包裹，他們在談論瑪莎-斯圖爾特對皮膚如此興奮，這就是我如何知道整個事情將是一種巨大的。

Yes, she stopped me at a party.

是的，她在一個聚會上阻止了我。

I'll never forget it.

我永遠不會忘記它。

I'm obsessed with Martha Stewart.

我對瑪莎-斯圖爾特很著迷。

So I was walking in new york and I hear like kim kim and I turn around and she's like, I just need skims, I love it.

是以，我在紐約散步，我聽到像KIM KIM的聲音，我轉過身來，她說，我只是需要脫脂，我喜歡。

And I was like anything for you.

而我就像為你做任何事。

Like it was just such a proud moment that like Martha Stewart wanted skims.

就像這是一個值得驕傲的時刻，就像瑪莎-斯圖爾特想要撇清關係。

I just thought right away, it was like gail Ashley Martha Stewart like you, you start to see a pattern of like women of different ages, shapes and sizes that all were really obsessed right away before it even started.

我只是馬上想到，這就像蓋爾-阿什利-瑪莎-斯圖爾特一樣，你開始看到一個模式，像不同年齡、形狀和大小的婦女，在它還沒有開始的時候就都非常著迷。

I got the sweetest letter, handwritten letter from Kathy Bates about Skims and loving skims and that made my day and we have to get her in a campaign, wanted to campaign with her.

我收到了凱西-貝茨的一封最甜蜜的信，是關於Skims和熱愛Skims的手寫信，這讓我很高興，我們必須讓她參加競選，想和她一起競選。

How did you decide that instead of shoes or a full collection of high fashion to do um shapewear?

你是如何決定不做鞋子或全套的高級時裝，而做嗯塑身衣的？

I always try to see what I'm obsessed with and what's a necessity in my life.

我總是試圖看看什麼是我所迷戀的，什麼是我生活中的必需品。

And if it's not perfect, how can I try to make something that is?

如果它不完美，我怎麼能嘗試做出完美的東西呢？

And the one huge gap that I felt like I was missing in shapewear was just color range, there was probably one shade of nude, a black and maybe a darker nude if that, but it was usually just two tones from every company that I ever saw was just one, knew that was too light for me and then a black and so I would take that and put it in the sink and put coffee bags and tea bags and let it sit there and soak and diet to get it to be a darker shade of nude.

我覺得我在塑身衣方面缺少的一個巨大差距就是顏色範圍，可能有一種裸色，一種黑色，也許還有一種更深的裸色，但通常只有兩種色調，我看到的每家公司都只有一種，我知道這對我來說太淺了，然後是一種黑色，所以我會把它放在水槽裡，放上咖啡袋和茶包，讓它坐在那裡，浸泡和飲食，讓它成為一種更深的裸色。

And um I just thought this doesn't make sense.

嗯，我只是覺得這沒有意義。

There's so many different skin tones if I can't find mine.

有這麼多不同的膚色，如果我找不到我的。

I know my daughter when she wants it, she's not gonna be able to find hers.

我知道我的女兒當她想要的時候，她是不可能找到她的。

And so we started a line of shapewear and that's why I wanted the company to be really um very specific and have really innovative shapewear.

是以，我們開始了一個塑身衣系列，這就是為什麼我希望公司能夠真正嗯非常具體，並且有真正創新的塑身衣。

I was very specific about my fabric.

我對我的織物非常具體。

I must have tried it on for, you know, a whole year, making sure that we had the perfect fabric.

我一定是試穿了，你知道，整整一年，以確保我們有完美的面料。

And then by the time I design loungewear and I really wanted cute stuff that you can wear around the house because when I come home I like to be really comfortable.

然後到了我設計家居服的時候，我真的想要可愛的東西，你可以在家裡穿，因為當我回家的時候，我喜歡非常舒適。

Then the pandemic hit at like our first or second drop of loungewear and we had loungewear designed for the whole next year to drop and it just happened to be the perfect time and the perfect storm of everyone just staying home and wanting to just be a lot more comfortable.

然後，大流行病在我們的第一或第二批家居服投放時發生了，我們為明年的整個一年設計了家居服投放，它恰好是一個完美的時間和完美的風暴，每個人都呆在家裡，想要更舒適。

So it's just honestly, it's my heart and soul, I love it.

所以說實話，這是我的心和靈魂，我愛它。

You know, there's obviously been brands that I had been a fan of before.

你知道，顯然有一些品牌，我以前一直是它們的粉絲。

Um Skims came along, but to me, I never just felt like anything was the way that I would have done it.

Um Skims came along, but to me, I never just felt like anything was the way that I would have done it.

And so I really started from scratch in my head about the items and the pieces that I really felt like there was a need for.

是以，我真的從頭開始在我的腦海中尋找我真的覺得有必要的項目和作品。

So I love that, you know, people will say like, oh you made shapewear cool again, and I just, it is what it is, like, I need it, I'm never one to shy away from saying things that I wear, you know, under my clothes or give all my girlfriends tips or walk around just in my skims and show people shapewear.

所以我喜歡，你知道，人們會說，哦，你讓塑身衣再次變得很酷，而我只是，它就是它，就像，我需要它，我從來不是一個羞於說的人，我穿，你知道，在我的衣服下或給我所有的女朋友提示或走動只是在我的短褲和展示人們塑身衣。

So I think that it made people also, maybe a younger audience of people to feel comfortable wanting to wear shapewear and wanting to just feel good about themselves, no matter how old or young they are.

是以，我認為它也使人們，也許是年輕的觀眾感到舒適，想要穿塑身衣，想要對自己感覺良好，不管他們有多老或多年輕。

So, I was zooming with my shrink the other day trying to keep my sessions going during the pandemic and she said a really fascinating thing that I hadn't thought about before, which was that one of the benefits of having stopped living your life for a year.

所以，有一天我和我的心理醫生一起放大，試圖在大流行期間保持我的會議，她說了一個非常迷人的事情，我以前沒有想過，那就是停止生活一年的好處之一。

Uh many people have found that they can now sort of decide or choose what to put back on their plate.

呃......許多人發現，他們現在可以某種程度上決定或選擇把什麼放回他們的盤子裡。

Um and I'm just sort of curious what you are choosing to put back on your plate after all of this.

嗯，我只是有點好奇，在這一切之後，你會選擇把什麼放回你的盤子裡。

Absolutely, I think that this year has been so challenging for so many people, but I also think that this year was a huge cleanse and just a huge opportunity for people to really be grateful for the simple things and that is a huge I think awakening that so many people had and just who you want to spend your time with the people that you allow into your home because everything is so scary and everyone's afraid of everything.

當然，我認為今年對許多人來說是如此具有挑戰性，但我也認為今年是一個巨大的清洗，只是一個巨大的機會，讓人們真正對簡單的事情心存感激，這是我認為許多人的一個巨大的覺醒，只是你想和你允許進入你家裡的人一起度過你的時間，因為一切都如此可怕，所有人都害怕一切。

I mean just even the amount of time that I know me and all my parent friends have spent with our Children has been so beautiful that we get this time, I always try to look at things in a positive way.

我的意思是，即使是我知道我和我所有的父母朋友與我們的孩子在一起的時間，也是如此的美好，我們能有這樣的時間，我總是試圖以積極的方式看待問題。

So you know, even though it's been such a challenging year, I think it's been a time to regenerate, get creative, spend so much time with family and just this time that I've been able to spend with my Children has been on, you know, priceless and it's been that part has been so beautiful just knowing that when we do start to fill our plates back up, I hope that we don't fill them up with things that don't make us happy and I hope that you know, even the work schedule I used to work nonstop and I would have done anything and everything at all hours and never taken into consideration just slowing down at all.

所以你知道，儘管這是具有挑戰性的一年，我認為這是一個再生的時間，有創造力，花了很多時間與家人在一起，而且我能夠與我的孩子們在一起的這段時間，你知道，是無價的，這部分一直是如此美麗，只是知道，當我們開始填補我們的盤子。我希望我們不要用那些不能讓我們快樂的東西來填滿它們，我希望你知道，即使是工作時間表，我曾經不停地工作，我會在任何時間做任何事情，從未考慮過放慢速度。

I think it's I think it was needed.

我認為這是我認為需要的。

Yeah, I would love to hear a little bit about what what's coming up in your life in that regard.

是的，我很想聽聽你在這方面的生活有什麼進展。

Yeah, so I'm still in law school.

是的，所以我還在讀法律學校。

I have two years left and so I have two years under my belt and um it's you know I'm ramping it up now so I have about like six hours every day.

我還有兩年的時間，所以我有兩年的時間，嗯，你知道我現在正在加強，所以我每天大約有六個小時。

I actually am not doing an essay and doing this interview instead.

實際上，我不做論文，而是做這個採訪。

So I'm gonna have to get up really early tomorrow and right like a two hour essay.

所以我明天必須很早起床，寫一篇兩小時的文章。

I'm really hopeful in that I'm working on like a handful of cases.

我真的很有希望，因為我正在處理像少數幾個案件。

I'm also doing a Spotify podcast with me and a woman named Lori Rothchild.

我還在做一個Spotify播客，有我和一個叫Lori Rothchild的女人。

She's amazing.

她很了不起。

She's a producer that found kevin keith's case which I believe to be an innocence case um of a man that's wrongfully convicted for a quadruple homicide and really working, he's been in for Over 25 years now.

她是一個製片人，發現了凱文-基思的案件，我相信這是一個無罪的案件，嗯，一個男人被錯誤地判定為四重殺人罪，而且真的在工作，他已經被關了超過25年。

So really working, abolishing the death penalty is like so high on my list and as I have clients that have gone through close situations like Julius jones, you know in Oklahoma City that I'm really fighting for.

是以，真正的工作，廢除死刑在我的名單上是如此之高，因為我有客戶經歷了接近的情況，如朱利葉斯-瓊斯，你知道在俄克拉荷馬城，我真的為之奮鬥。

It's just, it really makes you stop and just feel that you can't sit still until they write all of these wrongs I was and this is the last question I was on the phone with lady gaga's publicist the other day.

這只是，它真的讓你停下來，只是覺得你不能坐以待斃，直到他們寫下所有這些錯誤我是和這是最後一個問題我前幾天和Lady Gaga的公關打電話。

We somehow decided that there was something punk rock about you that you're not calculated in that kind of funk.

我們莫名其妙地決定，你有一些朋克搖滾的東西，你沒有被計算在那種樂趣中。

The haters, you know and I dare you to look away kind of presence that you have, you know what I mean?

憎恨者，你知道，我敢於看向遠方的那種存在，你知道我的意思嗎？

And I just um but it was an interesting moment of like celebrating something about you that was very specific and I wondered if, you know there's something punk about you?

我只是......但這是一個有趣的時刻，就像慶祝你的一些東西，非常特別，我想知道，你知道你是否有一些朋克的東西？

I think so, I remember having this conversation with ricardo.

我想是的，我記得和裡卡多有過這樣的對話。

T she, because when I went to my first Met Ball, the theme this punk and I was like, what, what is this, what am I gonna wear?

她，因為當我第一次去參加Met Ball時，主題是朋克，我當時想，這是什麼，我該穿什麼？

I would have done anything to go and he was just like, fuck it, your punk like that, it is what it is and I get that.

我願意做任何事情去，而他只是說，去他媽的，你的朋克就是這樣，它就是這樣，我明白。