Yup, there's an app for just about anything.

是的，幾乎所有的事情都有一個應用程序。

It was a revolutionary concept at the time.

這在當時是一個革命性的概念。

But instead of switching between several different mobile apps, what if there was a one-stop

但是，如果沒有在幾個不同的移動應用程序之間切換，而是有一個一站式的

portal for most of your needs?

門戶網站可以滿足你的大部分需求？

Well, it already exist, and it's called the 'super app.'

嗯，它已經存在，它被稱為 "超級應用程序"。

If you're living in China, I'd love to see someone who doesn't use a WeChat or

如果你生活在中國，我很樂意看到有人不使用微信或

AliPay at least once in a day.

在一天中至少有一次支付寶。

It's near impossible to do that.

要做到這一點幾乎不可能。

So, what's the story behind the most successful super apps and how did they become so popular?

那麼，最成功的超級應用程序背後有什麼故事，它們是如何變得如此受歡迎的？

In the first quarter of this year, there were more than 3.4 million apps on the Google Play Store

今年第一季度，谷歌應用商店有超過340萬個應用程序

and 2.2 million on the Apple App Store.

和蘋果應用商店的220萬。

Out of this, there are only a handful of super apps, but they have taken Asian markets by storm.

在這之中，只有少數幾個超級應用程序，但它們已經在亞洲市場掀起了風暴。

And nothing happens in the world of super apps without CNBC technology correspondent

在超級應用程序的世界裡，如果沒有CNBC的技術記者，任何事情都不會發生。

Arjun Kharpal knowing about it.

Arjun Kharpal知道這件事。

He's based in our bureau in Guangzhou, China, so we caught up via video call.

他在我們位於中國廣州的辦事處工作，所以我們通過視頻電話進行了交談。

Hi Arjun, how're you doing?

嗨，阿瓊，你還好嗎？

Hi Nessa, all good, all good here.

嗨，妮莎，一切順利，這裡一切順利。

Looking forward to the chat ahead.

期待著前面的哈拉。

Before that, I wanted to ask you how many super apps do you have installed right now?

在此之前，我想問你，你現在安裝了多少個超級應用程序？

Three, something like three or four.

三個，大概是三個或四個。

You're based in China, so you can't really escape super apps, right?

你的總部在中國，所以你真的無法逃避超級應用程序，對嗎？

It's ingrained in day-to-day life.

這在日常生活中已經根深蒂固。

I'm in Singapore, I definitely have one.

我在新加坡，我肯定有一個。

I think you can guess which one it is.

我想你可以猜到是哪一個。

I'll take a punt and say Grab.

我賭一賭，說是Grab。

Yes.

是的。

So, in your definition, what is a super app?

那麼，在你的定義中，什麼是超級應用程序？

When you've got a single app, and in that app, there's a ton of services that you can access.

當你有一個單一的應用程序，並且在該應用程序中，有大量的服務，你可以訪問。

That's really what a super app is.

這確實是一個超級應用程序的特點。

It's got that utility for day-to-day life, but also all these other things you might

它在日常生活中具有這種實用性，但也有所有這些其他的東西，你可以

end up doing as well via those apps.

最終通過這些應用程序也能做到。

You open it up, and, voila.

你把它打開，然後，就看到了。

It's a bunch of services, right, that are not necessarily related to each other, but

這是一堆服務，對吧，它們之間不一定相關，但

they're under the same umbrella app.

他們是在同一個傘狀應用程序下。

Some notable examples include China's WeChat and AliPay, India's Paytm, Singapore's

一些值得注意的例子包括中國的微信和支付寶，印度的Paytm，新加坡的

Grab, Indonesia's GoTo, Vietnam's Zalo and South Korea's Kakao.

Grab、印度尼西亞的GoTo、越南的Zalo和韓國的Kakao。

It usually starts off with one service, like ride-hailing or messaging, before evolving

它通常從一種服務開始，如乘車服務或資訊服務，然後發展到

to include other services such as food delivery, digital payment, gaming, travel booking, bill

包括其他服務，如食品配送、數字支付、遊戲、旅遊預訂、賬單等。

payments, mobile phone top-ups, music streaming, social networking, and the list goes on.

支付、行動電話充值、音樂流媒體、社交網絡等等，不勝枚舉。

What these companies have managed to do is rack up huge user bases by dominating their market.

這些公司設法做到的是通過主導市場來積累巨大的用戶群。

And that's been very key for their success.

而這對他們的成功非常關鍵。

In Asia, super apps are a mainstay.

在亞洲，超級應用程序是一種主流。

Grab operates in 8 countries, including Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam.

Grab在8個國家營運，包括新加坡、泰國和越南。

The Singaporean start-up serves more than 187 million users in over 350 cities.

這家新加坡的初創公司為350多個城市的1.87億用戶提供服務。

Meanwhile, GoTo Group, comprising Gojek and Tokopedia, is Indonesia's most valuable

同時，由Gojek和Tokopedia組成的GoTo集團是印度尼西亞最有價值的公司。

tech company, contributing 2% to the country's $1 trillion GDP.

科技公司，為該國1萬億美元的國內生產總值貢獻了2%。

India's biggest startup Paytm has over 350 million users signed up to their digital payments

印度最大的創業公司Paytm有超過3.5億用戶註冊了他們的數字支付。

service, and it's also a fully licensed digital bank.

服務，而且它也是一個完全許可的數字銀行。

And South Korea's Kakao has around 87% of the country's total population on its messaging

而韓國的Kakao公司擁有該國總人口的87%左右的資訊傳遞。

platform, meaning that almost everyone uses the chat app.

平臺，這意味著幾乎所有人都在使用這個哈拉應用程序。

Some of these countries have young generations, very digital savvy.

其中一些國家有年輕一代，非常瞭解數字。

You see that in India of course.

當然，你在印度看到了這一點。

They're willing to just go straight to phones, digital-savvy, they want digital products.

他們願意直接使用手機，精通數字，他們想要數字產品。

And that's something I think you'll see in other parts of the world as well.

而這一點我認為你在世界其他地方也會看到。

China, pretty much jumped straight into mobile quite quickly and so, the internet was developing

中國，很快就直接進入了移動領域，是以，互聯網正在發展。

fast, smartphones got huge.

快速，智能手機變得巨大。

Manufacturers here were making quite high quality, but low-priced smartphones,

這裡的製造商正在製造品質相當高，但價格低廉的智能手機。

that's been pretty key for the development of the super apps.

這對超級應用程序的發展相當關鍵。

China is very, very advanced when it comes to digital payments.

在數字支付方面，中國非常、非常先進。

You can go to a very tiny village somewhere, and someone's going to accept AliPay and WeChat Pay.

你可以去某個非常小的村莊，有人會接受阿里巴巴和微信支付。

But a super app also isn't a one-size-fits-all concept.

但超級應用程序也不是一個一刀切的概念。

What's successful in one country might not be successful in another.

在一個國家成功的東西可能在另一個國家不成功。

Often, I guess it starts with a simple product, or a single product, you know, whether it's

通常，我想它始於一個簡單的產品，或一個單一的產品，你知道，無論是

messaging, whether it's ride-hailing.

資訊傳遞，無論是乘車服務。

And then they sort of tack on services.

然後他們就把服務粘在一起。

What I think is the key though, is for these super app developers to localize their app.

但我認為關鍵是這些超級應用開發者要將其應用本地化。

A lot of people in Indonesia, they can't afford cell phones, right?

印度尼西亞的很多人，他們買不起手機，對嗎？

So, when Gojek first started out there, they gave an incentive for their driver-partners

是以，當Gojek剛剛開始時，他們為他們的司機夥伴提供了一個激勵措施

to sign on with them by giving them loans to purchase smartphones.

通過給他們貸款購買智能手機，與他們簽約。

And I guess that move really paid off.

我想這一舉措真的得到了回報。

That's a great example you just gave there of localization, of understanding your market.

你剛才舉了一個很好的例子，就是本地化，就是了解你的市場。

Localization also means understanding the traffic conditions, understanding how transport

本地化還意味著要了解交通狀況，瞭解運輸方式。

works if you're a ride-hailing service.

如果你是一個叫車服務，就能發揮作用。

You know, you can't just bring the China model everywhere else, or you can't just

你知道，你不能把中國的模式帶到其他地方，或者你不能只是

bring the Singapore or Southeast Asian model everywhere else.

把新加坡或東南亞的模式帶到其他地方。

The popularity of super apps is not just limited to Asia.

超級應用程序的普及不僅限於亞洲。

The model is also spreading in places like Latin America and Africa.

這種模式也在拉丁美洲和非洲等地蔓延。

What we're seeing in other countries as well, particularly some of the developing markets,

我們在其他國家也看到了什麼，特別是一些發展中的市場。

is their internet penetration is going to continue to grow.

是他們的互聯網滲透率將繼續增長。

There may still be somewhat of a digital gap in some of these countries, but as they continue

在這些國家中，可能仍然存在一些數字差距，但隨著他們繼續

to grow, there are cheap smartphones now on the market as well, a lot of them from

增長，現在市場上也有廉價的智能手機，其中有很多來自於

Chinese manufacturers.

中國製造商。

The user base of smartphones will grow, the population connected to the internet will

智能手機的用戶群將增長，連接到互聯網的人口將

grow, and that will sort of help along with some of the growth of super apps, as well.

增長，這將有助於隨著一些超級應用程序的增長，以及。

According to a global report, China and India have the most cell phone users in the world,

根據一份全球報告，中國和印度是世界上手機用戶最多的國家。

with Indonesia and Japan among the Asian countries featured in the top ten.

印度尼西亞和日本是前十名中的亞洲國家。

How come super apps have done so remarkably well in Asian markets, but we don't see

為什麼超級應用程序在亞洲市場表現得如此出色，而我們卻沒有看到

super apps gaining traction in European markets, or even American markets?

超級應用程序在歐洲市場，甚至是美國市場獲得了牽引力？

Obviously China is unique in the sense that things like WhatsApp, Signal, Twitter, Facebook,

顯然，中國是獨特的，因為像WhatsApp、Signal、Twitter、Facebook這些東西。

Google, are all blocked.

谷歌，都被封鎖了。

So that obviously cuts out a huge amount of competition out of the way.

是以，這顯然切斷了大量的競爭途徑。

The other point to make here is regulation.

這裡要說明的另一點是監管。

In China, for a long time, these tech companies have grown to giants, unencumbered broadly

在中國，長期以來，這些科技公司已經成長為巨頭，不受任何約束地廣泛存在著

by regulation.

按規定。

Now that's not to say, for example, that the Chinese population does not care about

現在，這並不是說，比如說，中國人不關心

privacy, that's incorrect.

隱私，這是不正確的。

What it is, is there hasn't really been the regulation and laws to govern data, to

它是什麼，是還沒有真正的監管和法律來管理數據，以

govern privacy, whereas, Europe, very strong on the General Data Protection Regulation,

治理隱私，而歐洲，在《通用數據保護條例》上非常強。

that big framework.

那個大框架。

And so, at points where super apps rely a lot on user data, to share between all these

是以，在超級應用程序大量依賴用戶數據的地方，要在所有這些應用程序之間共享

things, and the company knows so much about you from using their service daily, that's

的事情，而且該公司每天都在使用他們的服務，對你瞭解得非常多，這就是

not always an easy thing to do with data privacy and protection laws.

在數據隱私和保護法下，這並不總是一件容易的事情。

One thing you see in Europe, in the U.S., is the fact that competition is fierce among

在歐洲，在美國，你看到的一件事是，在歐洲和美國，競爭是很激烈的。

the tech giants you know, Apple's got iMessage, Facebook's got WhatsApp and Messenger.

你知道科技巨頭，蘋果有iMessage，Facebook有WhatsApp和Messenger。

So at some point, it's more disintermediated, more fractured, the market, in terms of services.

是以，在某種程度上，它是更多的脫媒，更多的斷裂，市場，在服務方面。

No one player necessarily always dominates a certain part, in order to create this super

沒有一個球員一定總是主導某個部分，為了創造這種超級的

app experience as well.

應用的經驗也是如此。

Maybe one of the conversations that we can talk about right now is the definitions, I

也許我們現在可以討論的對話之一是定義，我

guess, of super apps in Asian markets and Western markets.

猜測，在亞洲市場和西方市場的超級應用程序。

If you look at an Apple for example, it's an interesting one right started off with

如果你看一下蘋果公司的例子，它是一個有趣的，正確的開始是

iPhones, hardware, smartphones, but it's all about services now.

iPhone、硬件、智能手機，但現在都是關於服務。

It's not a super app, but it's a super phone, right?

它不是一個超級應用程序，但它是一個超級手機，對嗎？

Everything's on that phone.

一切都在那部手機上。

You're on the iPhone, there you got Apple Music, Apple TV, you got iMessage, Apple Pay,

你在iPhone上，你有蘋果音樂、蘋果電視，你有iMessage、Apple Pay。

etc etc so, what they've done is a bit different.

等等等等，所以，他們所做的有點不同。

In the sense, it's a credit to these ecosystems of products, but it's unique because they

在這個意義上，它是這些產品生態系統的功勞，但它是獨特的，因為他們

own the hardware platform.

擁有硬件平臺。

The key is ecosystem here right, like how can you keep people, customers, engaged in

關鍵是這裡的生態系統吧，比如你怎麼能讓人們、客戶參與到

whatever products you have.

無論你有什麼產品。

And so effectively you can sell them more, is the end goal for these companies.

是以，有效地你可以賣給他們更多，是這些公司的最終目標。

Obviously, super apps, with their ability to traverse across different industries, have

顯而易見，超級應用程序憑藉其穿越不同行業的能力，有

a large, exclusive amount of access to user data.

對用戶數據的大量、獨家訪問。

Is this going to be a problem in the future, where data can be used against the consumer?

這在未來是否會成為一個問題，即數據可以被用來對付消費者？

Each country's going to approach data protection, data privacy and data in their own way.

每個國家都會以自己的方式對待數據保護、數據隱私和數據。

You know, if you're paying for something on one of Alibaba's e-commerce platforms,

你知道，如果你在阿里巴巴的一個電子商務平臺上支付東西。

they know what you're like as a consumer in terms of your purchasing habits that creates

他們知道你作為一個消費者在購買習慣方面是什麼樣的，這創造了

an entire profile.

一個完整的配置文件。

With new data protection laws in China, the question is how much data, what data, will

隨著中國新的數據保護法的出臺，問題是，有多少數據，什麼數據，將是一個問題。

companies like Alibaba and Tencent be able to collect and to what extent can they share

阿里巴巴和騰訊等公司能夠收集到的資訊，以及他們能夠在多大程度上共享

that between their own services.

他們自己的服務之間。

The other point here is the government is, to some extent, I would say jealous of the

這裡的另一點是，在某種程度上，我想說的是，政府嫉妒

amount of data that WeChat and AliPay, for example, have been able to garner because

例如，微信和支付寶能夠獲得的數據量，因為

this is so valuable.

這真是太有價值了。

Privacy is an issue with any tech company, right.

隱私是任何科技公司的問題，對吧。

Yeah, I mean, these technology companies rely on data.

是的，我的意思是，這些技術公司依靠的是數據。

That's their business model and they rely on it for certain things, whether you're a

這就是他們的商業模式，他們依靠它來做某些事情，無論你是一個

company that relies on advertising, you need to profile your users to serve the ads and

依靠廣告的公司，你需要對你的用戶進行分析，以提供廣告和服務。

that's how they make the money.

這就是他們賺錢的方式。

To what extent can this data be collected and also, the control.

在何種程度上可以收集這些數據，還有，控制。

How much control the users have over what is collected and the data.

用戶對收集的內容和數據有多少控制權。

If you look at the GDPR regulation in Europe, that gives users some semblance of control,

如果你看一下歐洲的GDPR法規，這給了用戶一些控制的機會。

some extent of control, about what data websites can collect, etc.

某種程度上的控制，關於網站可以收集哪些數據，等等。

That's quite a strong stance on privacy.

這是對隱私的一個相當強烈的立場。

Question is how will that European level of privacy regulation make its way around other

問題是，歐洲的隱私監管水準將如何在其他國家實現？

parts of the world?

世界上的部分地區？

Because there's certainly, you know, parts of the world, that maybe it's not in the government's

因為肯定有，你知道，世界上的一些地方，也許它不是在政府的

interest to give users that privacy to allow encryption.

賦予用戶這種隱私以允許加密的利益。

But it's not just about the consumer.

但這不僅僅是關於消費者的問題。

We're seeing super apps evolve into developing their own payment systems, so they'll need to

我們看到超級應用程序正在演變成開發自己的支付系統，是以他們需要

understand the needs of merchants and banks as well.

也瞭解商戶和銀行的需求。

If you think about it, like, to sign up to a lot of these payments systems, you still

如果你想一想，比如，要註冊很多這樣的支付系統，你仍然

need your bank account, and you still need your card to be linked etc.

需要你的銀行賬戶，而且你還需要你的卡被鏈接等等。

But the payments are happening via these apps.

但支付是通過這些應用程序進行的。

And if you think about Alipay, which is issuing loans,

而如果你想想支付寶，它正在發放貸款。

they're not necessarily underwriting the loans, the bank or the financial institution is still

他們不一定承銷貸款，銀行或金融機構仍然是

underwriting those but it's going through Alipay.

承包這些，但它是通過支付寶進行的。

All people know is Alipay is processing that.

人們只知道支付寶在處理這個問題。

And so that's another step removed, that customer is another step removed from the bank.

是以，這又是一個步驟，該客戶與銀行的關係又是一個步驟。

So, the banks are still benefiting from these tech companies, but they might not have that

是以，銀行仍然從這些科技公司中受益，但他們可能沒有那個

relationship anymore with the customer.

與客戶的關係了。

So what's the next big thing in super apps?

那麼，超級應用程序的下一個大事件是什麼？

That's a tough one, Nessa.

這是個棘手的問題，內薩。

If I knew, I'd probably be a billionaire at the moment.

如果我知道，我此刻可能已經是個億萬富翁了。

We'll share a little bit of the pie.

我們將分享一點兒餡餅。

You can take a stake, be co-founders, that kinda thing.

你可以入股，成為聯合創始人，諸如此類的事情。

I mean, what you're going to continue to see, no doubt is these super apps continue

我的意思是，你將繼續看到的，毫無疑問是這些超級應用程序繼續

to try to stay dominant.

試圖保持主導地位。

How to keep, I think, your users stuck in your app, they're trying to learn that from

如何保持，我認為，你的用戶停留在你的應用程序中，他們正試圖從中學到這些。

the likes of Tencent and Alipay as well.

像騰訊和支付寶也是如此。

I think for now there's going to be a continuation of some of the things we've seen, tacking

我認為，目前，我們已經看到的一些事情將繼續下去，粘著

on more services, localization, data privacy laws, data laws around the world, how those

在更多的服務、本地化、數據隱私法、世界各地的數據法上，這些法律如何

fit into it as well.

也適合於此。

And I think that's going to be the key.

而且我認為這將是關鍵所在。

If you could add one thing in your super app, what would it be?

如果你能在你的超級應用程序中添加一樣東西，那會是什麼？

Wow, in my super app, what would it be?

哇，在我的超級應用程序中，會是什麼呢？

That's a tough one.

這是個難題。

I'd probably add some more games, just to like, pass the time you know.

我可能會增加一些遊戲，只是為了打發時間，你知道。

What kind of games are you thinking of? Like zombie survival games? Sudoku?

你想的是什麼類型的遊戲？像殭屍生存遊戲？數獨？

Something fun, some mobile games.

一些有趣的東西，一些移動遊戲。

Maybe some sort of adventure games, it'd be pretty fun.

也許是某種冒險遊戲，這將是相當有趣的。