with China playing a bigger role,

隨著中國的地位逐漸攀升

what will the Internet become?

網際網路將會變成什麼樣子？

Hi, welcome to China Uncensored,

歡迎收看《中國解密》

I'm your host Chris Chappell.

我是主持人 Chris Chappell

The Internet!

網際網路！

Some of you watching may not have even been alive

可能有些正在收看的觀眾

at a time when the Internet wasn't everywhere.

在出生時網路就已經很發達了

But I remember such a time.

但我記得那個

When computers were mysterious novelties,

電腦仍然神秘新鮮的年代

completely misunderstood by popular media.

那時大眾媒體徹底誤會了電腦

What's your preference?

你比較偏好哪個？

Apple, Pear, Wang?

蘋果、梨子、王？

Oh listen, I don't know anything about computers?

喔，我對電腦一無所知

Nobody does!

每個人都是！

Electric Dreams was popular, right?

《神通情人夢》很受歡迎吧？

Anyway, the world has now changed in weird, wild ways.

總之，世界已詭異而狂野的改變了

Because Internet.

因為網際網路

But at the beginning,

但在一開始

no one really knew what to do with computers.

沒有人真的知道要拿電腦來做什麼

Other than, you know

除了…

designing your own woman.

設計出你理想中的女人

Okay, look.

你看

You know how you're always talking about how you can

你總是講說可以如何

simulate all that stuff on your computer?

在你的電腦上模擬那些東西吧？

You know?

對不對

What's the difference,

有什麼差別？

why can't we simulate a girl?

為什麼我們不能模擬出一個女生？

The 80s were magnificent.

80 年代棒透了

But clearly at that time,

但很明顯的在那個年代

no one really could predict

沒有人能夠預料

where this whole Internet thing was going.

這整個網際網路將會如何發展

Although it is largely still about finding the perfect woman.

儘管現在仍然有很大一部份 被用來找尋那個完美的女人

Anyway, the point is, 20 years ago,

總之重點是，20 年前

the Internet was still developing.

網際網路仍然在發展中

And so in 1998

因此在 1998 年

the US government helped create the Los Angeles based non-profit,

美國政府協助成立了 總部位於洛杉磯的非營利組織

ICANN.

ICANN

To put it very simply,

簡單來說

there's a department of ICANN that's in charge

ICANN 裡頭有個部門專門負責

of the Internet's address book.

網際網路的通訊錄

It makes sure users get to the website

它確保使用者能夠連線到

they intend to visit.

他們想要去的網站

Like when you type in YouTube.com,

例如你輸入 YouTube.com

it sends you to YouTube's website

它就把你送到 YouTube 的網站

so you don't have to type in the long string of numbers

所以你就不需要輸入一大串數字

which is YouTube's actual IP address.

也就是 YouTube 的實際 IP 位址

It's like how you don't bother remembering

就像是你不需要費心

your mom's phone number anymore

記住你媽媽的電話號碼

because you can just go to your phone's Contacts

因為你可以直接到你手機的通訊錄裡頭

and click her name.

然後點一下她的名字

But you use ICANN way more than you call your mother.

但你使用 ICANN 的次數 遠多於打電話給你媽媽

ICANN is like if the entire world shared Contacts

ICANN 就像是整個世界

for Internet addresses.

共享網路位址的通訊錄

That's really important because

這非常重要

whoever controls the Internet's address book

因為誰掌控了網路位址的通訊錄

also has the ability to censor the Internet.

就掌控了審查網際網路的能力

Let's say ICANN removes the domain name youtube.com.

假設 ICANN 移除了 youtube.com 的網域名稱

YouTube itself may still exist,

YouTube 這個網站可能仍然存在

but would you know what numbers to type in

但你知道要輸入哪些號碼

to get there?

才能連線過去嗎？

99.9% of people wouldn't be able to access it.

99.9% 的人沒有能力辦到

So ICANN is really important.

因此 ICANN 十分重要

As the Economist puts it,

就像《經濟學人》說的

“That is why,

「這就是為什麼

as the internet grew up,

當網際網路越來越壯大

America decided not to hand control to the United Nations

美國決定不將控制權交給聯合國

or another international body steered by governments.”

或其他由政府掌控的國際機構

But for the most part,

但大多時候

the US government has been pretty much hands off,

美國政府不太插手

which let the Internet thrive

因此導致了

as the global depository of cat videos

我們今天所看到

we know today.

滿滿來自世界各地的貓咪影片

But something changed this past Saturday.

但上週六有件事情改變了

Because the US let its contract with ICANN expire.

美國和 ICANN 的合約到期

As of October 1,

10 月 1 日起

it will be run on a “multi-stakeholder model.”

ICANN 將會以多方利益關係人模式經營

In other words,

換句話說

a “mix of corporate interests, government officials,

該模式將包含散佈在四個國際組織中的

activists and experts

營利企業、政府官員

spread across four international bodies.”

社運人士及專家

Whew, this is getting complicated!

越來越複雜了！

Can we go back to the old days for a bit?

我們可以回到美好的過去嗎？

Much better

好多了

You see,

要知道

the Internet was never meant to have a central authority.

網際網路本來就不應該有個中央管制機構

And the less say that governments have,

政府插手干預得越少

the more free the Internet, right?

網路就越自由，對吧？

After all,

畢竟

there are 3.6 billion Internet users,

全球有 36 億網路使用人口

so of course

所以當然

the vast majority are outside the US.

大多數都在美國境外

And after Edward Snowden revealed

而且自從史諾登揭露了

that the NSA was spying on the global Internet,

美國國安局在監控全球網路後

a lot of people called for the US

很多人都要求美國

to give up control.

放棄控制權

So did a lot of

其中也包含了

major technology and telecommunication companies.

許多重要的科技及電信公司

So the US did give up control.

因此美國的確放棄了掌控

Well, not completely.

不是完全放棄

the US will still have one seat

在 ICANN 171 個會員的政府顧問委員會中

on ICANN's 171-member Governmental Advisory Committee.

美國仍然占有一席

In other words,

換句話說

the US's position on the committee

美國在委員會中的地位

will be theoretically equal

理論上等同於

to a country like Barbados,

巴貝多

a country you think about so little,

一個你完全不在意的國家

that you didn't even notice that's not Barbados.

你甚至沒有注意到那不是巴貝多

This is Barbados.

這才是巴貝多

Oh, that is fun! No wonder John Oliver can't stop doing it

真好玩！

No wonder John Oliver can't stop doing it!

難怪約翰·奧利佛玩不膩

But just because Barbados has a population smaller than Wichita, Kansas

但只因為巴貝多的人口 比堪薩斯州的威奇托市還少

doesn't mean it shouldn't have an equal say

並不表示對於網際網路如何運作

over how the Internet gets run.

它不該擁有平等的發言權

But that's not the whole picture,

但那並非事情的全貌

since in reality,

因為在現實中

not all countries have equally small stakes

針對網際網路如何運作

in how the Internet will be run.

並非所有國家都擁有公平對等的發言權

Actually,

事實上

the US will still have lots of sway.

美國仍然有許多影響力

But you know who else does?

但你知道還有誰的影響力也很大嗎？

China.

中國

A country I talk about so much,

一個我太常談論的國家

you were wondering when I was going to get to it.

你都好奇我到底什麼時候要才提到它

You see, China—

中國

or Chinese authorities to be precise—

或者更準確的說，中共當局

are very happy about the US giving up its control.

非常開心美國放棄控制權

As one Chinese cyber security professor said,

如同中國一位網路安全教授說的

“China has the capability now

「中國現在擁有能力

to set up international rules for cyberspace

打造網路空間的國際規範

and use our strategy and our rules

並且使用我們的手段及規範

to influence the world.”

影響全世界」

I mean,

我說

who wouldn't want China's Internet rules

誰不想要中國的網路規範

to apply to the entire world?

在全世界通用呢？

I mean, first of all,

我的意思是，首先

we'd get actual Internet police.

我們會有實際的網路警察

But that's just some professor

但那只是某個教授

saying that's the plan.

的片面之詞

I mean,

我意思是

it's paranoid delusion to imagine

認為中國真的考慮

that China is actually considering setting up

要在網路空間建立它自己的規範

its own rules in cyberspace.

那是一種被害妄想

Except that,

但是

according to another guy,

根據另一名男子

“China is considering setting up

「中國確實考慮在網路空間

its own rules in cyberspace.”

建立它自己的規範」

And that other guy is the Premier of China,

而那另一名男子就是中國的總理

Li Keqiang.

李克強

So, maybe there is something to the idea

所以，也許共產黨

that the Communist Party might be trying to influence

真的有打算要試著影響

the global Internet.

全球網路

It's pretty well known the Chinese regime

中共政權對中國網路的緊密掌控

has kept a tight grip on China's Internet—

眾人皆知

with two million people employed to police it,

中國雇用了兩百萬人監督網路

so they can monitor what Chinese citizens do and say.

方便政府監看中國人民 說什麼跟做甚麼

They also block access to websites

他們也阻擋了

they consider subversive.

他們認為會危及政權的網站

Like YouTube.

像是 YouTube

But over the past few years,

但在過去幾年

the Chinese regime been pushing to control the world's Internet—

中共政權不斷爭取

by filling the void left by the United States

控制世界網路的機會

as it steps back from ICANN.

填補美國放手 ICANN 後所留下的空缺

But how?

但怎麼做呢？

Isn't there that “multi-stakeholder model?”

不是有個「多方利益關係人模式」嗎？

Well, the Chinese regime has gotten pretty good

中共政權很擅於操弄

at manipulating international bodies

國際組織

and foreign tech companies,

以及國外的科技公司

like the ones that will now oversee ICANN.

像是那些現在監督 ICANN 的公司

Take, for instance,

舉例來說

China's Technical Committee 260,

中國的「全國信息安全標準化技術委員會」

or TC260.

或簡稱 TC260

It was founded in 2002.

成立於 2002 年

Yeah,

是的

so they've been secretly planning this

他們已經秘密籌畫

for a long time.

好長一段時間了

China has been using the TC260 in part

中國一方面利用 TC260

to “actively participate

「積極參與

in international rules and standards making in cyberspace,

制定網路空間的國際規範及標準

so as to improve discourse and China's influence

好增進對話以及中國的影響力

and increase international adoption of China's standards.”

以及增加國際對於中國標準的接受度」

Now if the name TC260 sounds a bit like ED-209 from RoboCop,

如果 TC260 聽起來有點像是 電影《機器戰警》中的 ED-209

well,

嗯…

that's a not too far off.

其實相去不遠

Think of it like an ED-209

就把它想成是 ED-209

designed to make internet policy

只不過是設計用來制訂網路政策

instead of “urban pacification.”

而不是維持「市區和諧」

The TC260 helps draft laws that focus on encryption,

TC260 針對編碼、大數據

big data,

還有其他網路安全的議題

and other cybersecurity issues.

協助草擬法案

And as the Wall Street Journal says,

如同《華爾街日報》所說

it makes sure technology is “secure and controllable.”

它確保科技是「安全且可控制的」

Secure and controllable?

安全且可控制？

By the CCP?

由中共控制？

That doesn't sound too good.

聽起來不太好

But wait!

但等等！

The TC260 is not just the CCP.

TC260 不是只有中共參與其中

It's a committee.

它是一個委員會

Foreign tech companies like Microsoft, Cisco, Intel, and IBM

外國科技公司如微軟、思科、英特爾和 IBM

are members.

都是成員

Surely,

當然

they will help China move in the right direction

在網路自由上

in terms of Internet freedom.

他們會協助中國往正確的方向邁進

Except,

只不過

many companies in the West

很多西方的公司

get a little funny when access to the Chinese market

只要一遇到中國市場擺在眼前

is dangled in front of them.

就會變得有點奇怪

Like when IBM caved to pressure from the Chinese regime

像是 IBM 就對中共政權妥協

and gave one of the world's biggest violators of Intellectual Property

然後讓全世界最大的智慧財產竊取者

access to their source code.

取得他們的原始碼

Or when Cisco sold routers to China

或者像思科賣路由器給中國

with the intention of helping the regime censor its citizens.

好協助中共政權審查它的人民

So my guess is these companies

所以我猜這些公司

aren't really going to change China,

與其說要改變中國

as much as China is going to change them.

倒被中國給改變得更多

Anyway,

總而言之

if you're worried about the TC260

如果你很擔心 TC260

drafting scary big brother Internet regulations—

會草擬可怕的網路老大哥規範

well, yeah.

嗯，當然

But those regulations only apply to people inside China.

但那些規範只適用於中國境內的人

However,

然而

the TC260 is also part of a broader plan

TC260 也是中共當局

by Chinese authorities to exert control over the world's Internet.

掌控世界網路計畫的一個環節

The TC260 reports directly to the Cyberspace Administration of China.

TC260 直屬於中國國家互聯網信息辦公室

And the Cyberspace Administration of China

而中國國家互聯網信息辦公室

just happens to report directly to report directly

正好又直屬於

to the Leading Small Group for Network Security and Information,

中共網絡安全和信息化領導小組

which is chaired by the leader of the Chinese Communist Party,

這個小組的主席是中國共產黨領導人

Xi Jinping.

習近平

In other words,

換句話說

the TC260 ultimately reports to the head of the Communist Party.

TC260 最終直屬於中共的領導人

And its goal is to influence international rules and standards for the Internet.

而它的目標是要影響 網路的國際規範和標準

And that's just one example

而那只是中共如何試著影響網路政策

of how the CCP is trying to influence Internet policy.

的一個例子而已

There's also a sort of related organization

還有一個相關的組織

called the CyberSecurity Association of China.

叫做中國網絡空間安全協會

Its goal is to strengthen the CCP's control over China's Internet,

它的目標在於強化中共 對於中國網路的控制

including how foreign companies can operate in China.

包含外國公司如何在中國營運

But while the CyberSecurity Association

雖然網絡安全協會

has representatives from Chinese companies like Alibaba,

有來自中國公司的代表，如阿里巴巴

it has no foreign companies among its members.

它的成員當中卻沒有任何外國公司

Oh,

喔

and its chairman is this guy—

而它的主席是這個傢伙

who created the Great Firewall of China.

中國防火長城之父

So suffice it to say,

不需要多說

it's not pro-Internet freedom.

這絕對無助於網路自由

And its Secretary General is Li Yuxiao,

而它的秘書長是李欲曉

who once said this:

他曾經這麼說過：

“Now is the time for China

「現在正是中國

to realize its responsibilities.

負起責任的時候

If the United States is willing to give up its running of the internet sphere,

假如美國願意放棄經營網路領域

the question comes as to who will take the baton

問題在於誰會接下棒子

and how it would be run.”

以及它會如何經營」

So if all of this seems a bit complicated,

假如這一切看來有點複雜

it is.

是這樣沒錯

That's the point.

這就是重點

The Chinese regime doesn't want people figuring it out.

中共政權不想要人們搞懂

And that's how,

這也是中共政府

under the radar,

如何秘密的

the Chinese regime has spent a long time

花了很長時間

carefully designing ways to influence the groups

仔細設計能影響監督 ICANN 的組織