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  • [MUSIC PLAYING]

  • SPEAKER 1: Good morning.

  • Good morning.

  • Thank you all so much for coming.

  • Today at Google, we're delighted to welcome Patty McCord.

  • Patty is one of the world's foremost experts

  • on company culture.

  • She was an early employee at Netflix,

  • and she was a co-author of the famous Netflix culture

  • deck, which Sheryl Sandberg said was

  • one of the most important documents

  • to come out of Silicon Valley.

  • She's here today to discuss her new book, titled "Powerful:

  • Building a Culture of Freedom and Responsibility," which

  • was largely an effort to sort of boil down

  • the message of the famous Netflix culture deck.

  • So please join me in welcoming to Google Miss Patty McCord.

  • [APPLAUSE]

  • PATTY MCCORD: So I'm just going to couple--

  • how many people have seen the Netflix culture deck?

  • A couple of you.

  • I didn't write it.

  • I didn't co-author it with Reed Hastings, the CEO of Netflix.

  • Reed and I did another company before Netflix,

  • a company called Pure Software.

  • We sold software tools to other software engineers.

  • And we grew through a merger and acquisition.

  • And how we grew was we'd acquire a company,

  • and every time we'd acquire a company, we'd double.

  • So we were like 100, 200, 400, 6--

  • right.

  • And then we sold the company to our largest competitor.

  • And my job was to take their employee

  • handbook and our employee handbook

  • and smash them together and come up

  • with the fewest policies that would piss off

  • the fewest people.

  • And so what we decided to do at Netflix that was different

  • was pay attention to the kind of company

  • that we were working at, primarily

  • for totally selfish reasons.

  • I didn't want to work with brilliant assholes anymore.

  • And I wanted to have permission to say no.

  • And Reed wasn't very tolerant of people who weren't very smart

  • or weren't very into the company.

  • So what we decided to do differently,

  • for those of you that have read the Netflix culture deck,

  • is just write stuff down.

  • So my journey was not only to write down what kind of company

  • that we wanted to work at, my job was

  • to be the COO of that culture, which meant if we said this,

  • then did we do this?

  • And that's the part where most companies get it wrong.

  • And I want you to go away from my talk

  • today and think about what you're doing here

  • and what you're saying you are as Google

  • and who you really are acting as Google,

  • because that's what company culture really is.

  • So since I've been away, I get to talk to people

  • who are outside of business and who

  • are people who are kind of on the speaker circuit.

  • So I end up onstage with a lot of coaches,

  • like real sports coaches from real professional sports teams.

  • So I was in Montreal last year in February.

  • Has anybody been to Montreal in February?

  • So cold.

  • It is so cold.

  • So I called up my daughter, and I said, hey, by the way,

  • I'm doing this talk in Montreal in February.

  • She's like, Mom, go to Patagonia.

  • Go now.

  • Get a puffy coat.

  • Get the big one.

  • So then I realized how dang cold it is in Montreal in February.

  • So I figure out my hotel so that I

  • can go underground so that I can go up to the venue, which is

  • a place called the Bell Centre.

  • Does anybody know what happens at the Bell Centre in Montreal?

  • No hockey fans, huh?

  • OK.

  • Well, that's where the Stanley Cup is played.

  • Now, at this point I've been talking

  • to groups who are a little bigger than you, but not much.

  • Like as if this room was full is kind of my biggest audience.

  • So I go down below.

  • And at the last minute, they said to me, oh, by the way,

  • you're not going to be onstage alone.

  • You're going to be with this guy named Scotty Bowman.

  • So I google Scotty Bowman, and he's a hockey coach.

  • He's the winningest hockey coach in history

  • in the National Hockey League.

  • So I meet him underground.

  • We're underground at this venue.

  • And he's this older gentleman.

  • He's like 70, and he has on a little suit with a maple leaf

  • pin and an American flag.

  • And we're talking about his grandkids.

  • And he says to me, we're under the ice.

  • And then it occurs to me, we're in a hockey stadium.

  • Like a hockey stadium.

  • So it's not you guys.

  • It's not this little intimate room.

  • I go up onstage, and my face is on the Jumbotron.

  • I mean, it's like huhhh!

  • And it's really scary.

  • And there's thousands of people in the audience.

  • And so he introduces me, nice introduction.

  • The audience claps very politely,

  • and I go sit on my little velvet couch.

  • And Scott Bowman comes up, and the place goes crazy.

  • I'm in Montreal in a hockey stadium

  • with the winningest hockey coach in history.

  • They're clapping like this.

  • [LAUGHTER]

  • If they had had those foam fingers,

  • they'd be doing the foam fingers.

  • I mean, people are like, taking selfies.

  • Because I'm onstage with God, as far as

  • they're concerned in Montreal.

  • So he comes up.

  • He sits down.

  • The master of ceremonies, who has a diamond

  • earring and teleprompter, and he's working the audience.

  • And he says, Mr. Bowman, you're such a legend.

  • You've won so many tournaments.

  • You've played with all the great players.

  • What does it take to be a winning team?

  • How do you give people feedback?

  • And he says, well, we have an 80-game season.

  • And every 10 games, I sit down with each player,

  • and I do an assessment of how they're doing.

  • They do a self-assessment.

  • We pull all the stats.

  • We get feedback from the other coaches.

  • We get feedback from the other players.

  • We talk about who we're going to play in the next 10 games, what

  • the competition is, where their strengths and weaknesses are.

  • And we put together a plan that we're

  • going to execute for the next 10 games

  • so that that person can be an incredibly high performer.

  • So the guy says to me, Patty McCord,

  • you've been known for saying how much you hate

  • the annual performance review.

  • And I do.

  • I think it's an utter, total waste of time for most

  • companies that do it that way.

  • And so he said, if you didn't do that, what would

  • you do instead?

  • And I said, what he said.

  • Because the thing is that sports coaches

  • know how to put together teams that win.

  • And that's really all that management really

  • is, as far as I'm concerned.

  • For 30 years, I've been watching people put together teams.

  • And it's all about doing that.

  • And the reason I also put the slide up that says team

  • is that-- and I know you probably

  • don't say this much here, but in case you

  • do-- you're not a family.

  • Right?

  • Work isn't your family.

  • It's not undying love.

  • You're not going to loan your deadbeat brother-in-law money,

  • and he'll never pay you back, because you always do.

  • Because this is work.

  • And you come together to do something

  • that you can only do here.

  • And that's create terrific products

  • that make people happy.

  • And that joy, I think, of working

  • is what really makes people happy.

  • And I say that here at Google, where you

  • have God's gift to everything.

  • And I know that when you go home and you say, oh my God, it

  • was an amazing day at work, almost always

  • when you say that truthfully from your soul,

  • it's because you did something hard

  • with really smart people that made you really effective.

  • And that's my observations of teams over all those years.

  • And in order to make it work, it's

  • about putting together the right teams.

  • So because I started as a recruiter,

  • I think a lot about talent.

  • And what I want to talk to you about

  • is you today, because I think I don't

  • need to lecture you guys about how great organizations should

  • move fluidly and be more flexible

  • and be more accepting of change, because that's

  • the world that you live in.

  • But I want to talk to you about how you navigate

  • through your own career.

  • So I just did a talk with 1,500 HR people.

  • I know that's a frightening idea for most of you.

  • It's even a frightening idea for me.

  • Like when I first started talking to HR people

  • before I wrote the book, people walked out

  • because I said things that really upset them.

  • But what I said was to 1,500 HR people,

  • please raise your hand if you're in the job

  • that you had when you graduated from college.

  • How many people raised their hand?

  • None.

  • How many of you have ever done a layoff?

  • 1,500 people raised their hands.

  • How many of you have ever laid off a family member?

  • There's always one.

  • Don't ask me why, but people do that.

  • Like somebody did.

  • And then I say, how many of you have said the word family

  • at work?

  • And 900 people raised their hands.

  • And I say, for all of you that aren't in the same job,

  • you mean none of you could work for a company that

  • could handle retention?

  • So the truth is that our lives, our careers,

  • are full of lots of different jobs

  • in lots of different organizations.

  • And what I love about Google these days

  • is that you've now admitted that there's

  • lots of different organizations in the corporation that

  • is Google, all the alphabet companies.

  • So if you start thinking about your career

  • and how you're going to be successful

  • and how you're going to move forward,

  • here's my hint from doing this for a very, very long time.

  • Is what you love to do that you are extraordinarily

  • good at doing something the company you work for needs

  • someone to be great at?

  • So if you wake up in the morning and you

  • don't want to come to work, or you're not looking forward

  • to it and it seems really horrible,

  • then something's wrong with Patty's algorithm.

  • And I say algorithm because I worked with geeks all my life,

  • and I love you and I miss you.

  • But if I say words like algorithm, it helps, right?

  • OK.

  • So what you love to do that you're

  • extraordinarily good at doing--

  • is it important?

  • So when you find yourself coming to work and thinking,

  • they just don't care about how good I am at writing.

  • They don't even realize how wonderful

  • I am, how talented I am.

  • They may realize it and not care.

  • That's the honest truth.

  • And the other part is if you need somebody

  • to be really, really good and really, really

  • passionate about a problem you're trying to solve,

  • and they can just do it, but they don't love it,

  • then you're not happy on the other side either.

  • So the reason why I'm telling you this

  • is it's your job to navigate this.

  • It's not somebody else's job to suddenly realize

  • that you are unhappy.

  • Trust me, they know.

  • And it's not somebody else's job to realize

  • that you went home thinking this was the best working

  • day of your life.

  • It's yours.

  • So as you go through your work life,

  • I want you to be really cognizant of what

  • you're learning, what you're liking, what you're not liking.

  • Half of what we learn in our careers

  • is the work that we do that we hate.

  • I remember driving away from a job

  • once, looking in the rear-view mirror

  • like, if I never see that place again as long as I live.

  • And then I tried to pin it down.

  • What was it about that place that made me crazy?

  • And it was a company that had thousands and thousands

  • of employees, and they talked to them as head count.

  • They didn't have names.

  • They were just head count to be grown or shrunk or grown

  • or shrunk.

  • So that's the part about talent.

  • Your talent is really important to wherever you work.

  • And you want to make sure that you're in a place that

  • recognizes that.

  • And then the last thing I wanted to talk to you about--

  • and since we're such an intimate audience,

  • it'd be really fun if you could talk to me.

  • The last thing I wanted to talk to you

  • about is the idea of transformation.

  • So I spend a whole bunch of time with really big companies

  • who invite me in to talk about how they're

  • going to transform into an agile tech company

  • like we have here in the valley.

  • And they have no clue.

  • So they can't do it, but you can.

  • And so the way to create the workplace

  • that you want to have is to be vocal about it and to speak up.

  • And for us to start talking to each other

  • really honestly about what works and what doesn't work.

  • And I think that you can have incredible conversations

  • about work.

  • You know this story I told you about Scott Bowman

  • at the beginning of my talk?

  • A couple of days ago, a couple of weeks

  • ago, I was at this thing in Texas.

  • And the coach of the San Antonio Spurs--

  • it's a professional basketball team-- was on.

  • And it was a very touchy-feely audience.

  • And somebody said, oh, my question for you, Coach,

  • is it must be really horrible when you have to cut people

  • from the team after you've put all that energy into recruiting

  • them and having them play a whole season

  • and they've done their best.

  • And doesn't that feel terrible?

  • And he said, no.

  • Actually it doesn't at all.

  • Like, it's professional basketball.

  • You didn't sign up for a lifetime appointment.

  • Everybody understands that.

  • And I was in the audience thinking,

  • why can't we just have those conversations?

  • Why can't we have those conversations with each other?

  • We hired you to do this thing, and you were amazing.

  • Thank you.

  • We're done.

  • That part's over.

  • So now what are you going to do next?

  • And what I think about when I think

  • about Scotty's methodology for giving people feedback,

  • it's called a performance improvement plan.

  • Too bad we ruined that word.

  • Like what if we actually got together and said,

  • let's put together a plan so that we can perform better?

  • What a concept.

  • But that's not what we normally do.

  • And so that's why I think real transformation comes

  • from two things.

  • One of them is to stop speaking a language about management

  • that no one understands and just be able to start telling people

  • the truth.

  • I just don't love you anymore.

  • I don't need you.

  • Or maybe you need something that's

  • more interesting and stimulating over here.

  • Or maybe you should move on.

  • Or maybe you can say, hey, look, I'm

  • looking at a lot of other opportunities,

  • and I want to think about what that means for me.

  • That you can really have those honest conversations.

  • And the second part is that you can tell the truth about what

  • you want and what you need.

  • And your managers can tell you the truth about the future.

  • And you can navigate your own careers through all of that

  • and not wait for somebody else to take care of you.

  • When I talk to women's groups, I say, look,

  • employee engagement does not mean somebody put a ring on it.

  • And interviewing with another company

  • to find out what you're worth--

  • which is what you're worth, by the way.

  • And if you feel like you're underpaid

  • and you're waiting for somebody to notice,

  • that is not going to happen.

  • Go find out what you're worth, and that

  • happens with interviewing.

  • Interviews get you opportunities.

  • Interviews get you jobs.

  • You should be doing that for the rest of your life.

  • So when you find yourself waiting

  • for someone in management to take care of you,

  • I want you to remember my words and go take care of yourself,

  • OK?

  • That's my talk for today.

  • Do you guys want to talk to me?

  • Let's do some Q&A. Yeah.

  • AUDIENCE: Do we have mikes or--

  • PATTY MCCORD: Do you have--

  • do we need mikes?

  • Yeah, in case we put it in the video.

  • The last slide is my book, which there are some you get to have.

  • AUDIENCE: So if you have an organization, particularly one

  • like Netflix that had a reputation for this, where

  • a certain number of low performers,

  • you're going to churn them out each year,

  • how do you decide where that bar is?

  • Do you target a certain percentage of the organization

  • or absolute performance bar?

  • PATTY MCCORD: No, it was never like that at all, ever.

  • Ever.

  • So here's how it typically happened.

  • I'll give you a story that--

  • anybody here use DVD by mail?

  • OK.

  • So we had grown.

  • This is when we were transitioning to streaming,

  • when we were transitioning out of the DVD by mail business

  • into the streaming business.

  • And we had had an incredible run that particular year.

  • I don't remember which year it was.

  • But we'd grown 30% quarter over quarter

  • for three quarters in a row.

  • So we're at our executive staff meeting.

  • And Reed wants to go to the white board

  • and do disaster planning, because he loves it.

  • Like, what if it goes to shit in a handbasket?

  • That's his favorite thing to do.

  • So I say, hey, for sport, what if it kept up?

  • What if we kept growing quarter over quarter,

  • 30% quarter over quarter compounded for the next three

  • quarters?

  • CFO goes to the white board.

  • He's doing top line revenue.

  • And he's doing that happy dance, like, look at the money.

  • Look at the money, look at the money!

  • Ted Sarandos, who's our head of content, says-- at the time,

  • we said wistfully, someday we'll be as big as HBO.

  • And he says, shit, you guys.

  • That's next year.

  • It's possible that we'll be as big as HBO next year.

  • And we all just looked at each other.

  • And Neil, who was our head of product at the time,

  • said, that's a third of the US internet bandwidth.

  • [LAUGHTER]

  • AUDIENCE: The ISPs have noticed that too.

  • PATTY MCCORD: And I'm looking at him like, what?

  • So afterwards, he and I are sitting there like,

  • does anybody know how to do that?

  • 'Cause files, video files were so big.

  • You guys remember.

  • You were around at that time.

  • I'm like, how do we do-- like, we had a data center because we

  • shipped DVDs by mail.

  • So we're brainstorming, like, is it Google?

  • Is it Yahoo?

  • Is it eBay?

  • Who's moving that much data that has--

  • and it's got to be in the cloud, clearly.

  • We're not going to do this in a data center.

  • So we sit down with our IT guys, and they're brilliant.

  • These are brilliant, wonderful, amazing people.

  • And we say, here's the problem set.

  • And they say, no worries.

  • You guys go exec something.

  • We'll build the cloud.

  • And I looked at them and said, you know what?

  • If anybody on earth could do this, it's you.

  • Not in nine months.

  • We couldn't do that.

  • It was just the time frame was too short for these people

  • to be those experts to be able to accomplish the business

  • objective.

  • And we're certainly not going to miss our window,

  • if it's there, because we don't have the right IT team.

  • So I said to them, that's not going to happen.

  • But we've got nine months to figure it out.

  • And so we turned, that year, 97% of that team.

  • And most of them went on to a company called Chegg, which

  • is a Netflix for textbooks.

  • So they went, and they took their physical shipping

  • and receiving database skills to do that.

  • So that was typically what happened.

  • Typically what happened was we'd either build something

  • and it'd be done--

  • and when I used to interview Google people, people

  • who had an offer with you guys and an offer with us,

  • I would say, look, two different problem sets.

  • Organizing the world's information

  • is a big problem set.

  • We're delivering movies and TV shows

  • to people's homes or their devices.

  • That's it.

  • One problem.

  • That's all we do.

  • So that's typically what happened.

  • So the DVD by mail business still exists.

  • I don't know if you guys know that.

  • I still use it on my boat.

  • AUDIENCE: You still use it?

  • PATTY MCCORD: Yeah.

  • And it has a great catalog because it has everything

  • known to humankind because you don't

  • have to buy rights for it.

  • But that business is probably--

  • I bet there's not 100 people in that business anymore.

  • So that's more what happens.

  • I know reputationally what Netflix has a reputation for,

  • but we never said--

  • why would we do that?

  • If we said in chapter 2, we're a high-performance culture,

  • you don't have to cut the bottom third performers

  • because you don't have them.

  • And my experience is this.

  • If you hire somebody who can't do the job,

  • they are completely without fault. That's

  • in the interview process.

  • That person, that candidate has no--

  • there's nothing they did wrong.

  • You hired the wrong person.

  • If you hire somebody and they're close but no cigar, right?

  • It's like, I love you.

  • I love you, man.

  • I love you.

  • Not really sure.

  • You can still do that, but you should be honest.

  • Should be able to say to you, you know what?

  • You're not exactly the skill set we were looking for,

  • but we love you.

  • And we're willing to take the chance if you are.

  • And then if it doesn't work out, then it doesn't work out.

  • Everybody tried.

  • So that's what I'm saying.

  • You can start being honest in an interview.

  • So that's more typically what happens.

  • My experience is you either join a company

  • that you think you're intellectually going to like,

  • and you don't when you really get there.

  • Netflix was not a particularly good place

  • for people who liked structure or liked just R&D work,

  • because it was so about deliverables.

  • AUDIENCE: Thanks.

  • PATTY MCCORD: Sure.

  • Right in front of you.

  • AUDIENCE: Hey.

  • PATTY MCCORD: Hi.

  • AUDIENCE: I was wondering.

  • You have the idea of this generous severance

  • package and the idea that you let go of people easily.

  • Did you have to change the company culture

  • to get to the point where that became acceptable,

  • or was that--

  • PATTY MCCORD: Yeah.

  • It took-- if you go back and read the Netflix culture deck,

  • we wrote each chapter after the chapter before it.

  • So when we said, we're going to have a high-performance culture

  • of adults, and then we're going to give them a lot of freedom,

  • it probably took four years for me

  • to figure out how to do that.

  • So I had to figure out the severance package.

  • So let's say that, in a typical company,

  • let's say we've hired you to do something.

  • You've been here for years.

  • You're amazing.

  • You've done it.

  • The DVD by mail guys, right?

  • Don't need you anymore.

  • Now I'm going to put you on a performance improvement

  • plan for three months to prove you're incompetent.

  • But we both know you're not.

  • Well, that's just mean.

  • So instead, I would say, you know what?

  • We've been talking about this.

  • Can't wait to see where you go next.

  • I mean, half of my Netflix alumni are here.

  • So I can't wait to see where you go next.

  • Here's three months' pay.

  • Let's just not go through this crazy stuff.

  • There's just no reason to do that.

  • So that's how I thought about the severance packages,

  • was if I did the thing that people normally do

  • and instead just said, how much is that worth?

  • Then I'd just paid you that.

  • I also had to have an incredible recruiting

  • team that would hire the people for the jobs

  • that we needed getting done in the future.

  • So that took me a long time, to have a really, really top-notch

  • recruiting team.

  • I had to think about competitive offers.

  • I had to think about head-count dollars in terms of dollars,

  • not in terms of number of people.

  • So in most companies--

  • I don't know how it works here-- but there's

  • three ways you get a requisition approved if you want to hire

  • somebody in most companies.

  • You write a job description that either describes

  • the person who left that you wish hadn't, a fantasy

  • person that doesn't exist, or whatever

  • it takes to get it approved.

  • None of those have anything to do with actually hiring

  • somebody to solve the problem.

  • And the truth is that when you find somebody who's

  • really qualified to solve the problem,

  • you should pay whatever it takes to get them.

  • But in some organizations, especially when

  • I'm with startups, when they get to step functional scale

  • and I say, that new team is not this team.

  • You're not going to make them into that, particularly

  • on problems of complexity and scale.

  • So that's how I thought about it.

  • I thought about it in terms of the whole thing.

  • How do we have not just high performers,

  • but high performers in each job to solve each problem?

  • That's the difference.

  • AUDIENCE: Do you have any kind of personnel development

  • in that kind of world?

  • PATTY MCCORD: Yeah, but not so formally.

  • My experience is the best way to develop

  • is to be around amazing people who

  • you learn from all the time.

  • So I did a lot of matching with people,

  • putting people with other people that they

  • could learn a lot from.

  • And making-- we had a lot of systems

  • in place to share mostly business information.

  • So a lot of our communication and education in the company

  • was around the business, not necessarily

  • around those skills.

  • I think you learn best when you can see it.

  • When you see somebody behaving like a great manager,

  • then you have a great role model.

  • AUDIENCE: Patty, compensation teams

  • love the annual performance review

  • because it makes annual increases,

  • equity modeling, super simple, perhaps even algorithmic.

  • When you throw that out in favor of lots

  • of feedback and conversations, how do you connect the dots?

  • PATTY MCCORD: I don't have any problem

  • with an annual compensation review.

  • I think it's really smart.

  • Actually, I recommend that you do them quarterly

  • and walk through the company quarterly.

  • The most important way to think about compensation

  • is market-based pay.

  • And the most real compensation information in your company

  • is in your recruitment team, not in last year's survey.

  • That's what is really happening.

  • You want to know what's really happening.

  • That's my problem with most standard compensation teams,

  • is they operate on systems and with data that's really old.

  • And I don't know if you guys do.

  • I know that you guys are more analytic than that.

  • But so I would usually walk through the organization

  • and say, where have I hired a lot of people?

  • Because where I've hired a lot of people,

  • that's going to give me really current salary information.

  • That's going to color how I pay the people that are currently

  • there that you want to stay.

  • So I don't have any problems at all with it.

  • The problems I have are when we take

  • the review and the compensation and the feedback,

  • and we throw them all together once a year.

  • And we say it solves those problems.

  • So I was going to tell you earlier,

  • the most innovative work I did at Netflix

  • was not anything new.

  • It was just I stopped doing old things that

  • don't matter anymore.

  • So that story I told you about Scotty Bowman

  • is a story about giving great feedback.

  • And if you're going to give people great feedback,

  • that's going to affect their performance.

  • You're not going to do it once a year.

  • Name one other thing you do once a year that you're good at.

  • That would be nothing.

  • So great feedback-- so if you want

  • to create a system that says, I believe that feedback

  • can improve performance.

  • I want to create a system that does that.

  • Then who would ever come up with the annual performance review?

  • It's a dumb system to do that.

  • If you say, I want to have an annual compensation review,

  • where I do a point-in-time look across the organization

  • and see is pay working out fairly

  • and equitably for people, and is it market-based?

  • Am I paying competitively?

  • Then that's a completely reasonable exercise to do.

  • There's where I have the problem, is we mush it together

  • and we're not clear.

  • The other problem I have with a lot of compensation systems

  • is they're not transparent to employees.

  • It's magic that happens in HR.

  • And even some HR people don't know how it works.

  • The recruiting team doesn't know how the comp team works.

  • It's just crazy stuff.

  • So again, it's about--

  • like, I got rid of the--

  • when I was at Netflix, I got rid of paid time off--

  • keeping track of paid time off.

  • I got rid of travel policies.

  • And I got-- actually I didn't get rid of these things.

  • I vetoed them before we installed them.

  • The travel policy and getting approvals

  • from finance for expenditures.

  • It seemed insane to me that I would

  • say, any expenditure over $5,000 has to be--

  • or $10,000-- has to be approved by finance.

  • And I've got a company full of PhDs in math.

  • Like, they know that $10,001 is more than $10,000.

  • They don't need somebody in finance to tell them that.

  • But they might need somebody in finance

  • to sit with them as an analyst and tell them

  • what things are happening and how they're trending.

  • Is this the hook?

  • Are you coming to hook me?

  • Oh, because-- look at your little--

  • see, that's a Google problem.

  • [LAUGHTER]

  • I told you I'd say that.

  • Does that make sense to you?

  • AUDIENCE: Yes.

  • PATTY MCCORD: I don't have any problem with the system.

  • It just needs to be transparent.

  • And it needs to be current.

  • AUDIENCE: And because you're paying top of market,

  • the feedback is kind of irrelevant.

  • PATTY MCCORD: No, they're two different things.

  • They're two different things.

  • AUDIENCE: Is there pay for performance

  • at Netflix, or not really?

  • PATTY MCCORD: There's high performance.

  • So you're going to be paid top dollar

  • for doing a fabulous job with amazing people on time

  • with quality.

  • So we're going to just pay there.

  • We're not going to pay like, well, you did an OK job,

  • so I'm going to give you an OK raise.

  • If you did an OK job, we're going

  • to talk about where you're at and whether

  • or not you still need to be there.

  • And then how I determine what pay is is market.

  • What are you worth somewhere else?

  • Listen, this true story.

  • I would say to my vice presidents,

  • go interview at Google.

  • They're like, no.

  • I'm not-- what are you talking about?

  • I love it here.

  • I'm like, no, no, no.

  • Go.

  • They're like, shit, in Google it takes, like,

  • seven weeks and five.

  • I'm like, I want to know what they're paying VPs.

  • Just get your coat.

  • Go interview.

  • I would tell my employees, look, when the recruiter calls,

  • before you say, no thanks, be sure you say how much

  • and come tell me.

  • 'Cause that's real comp data.

  • Real comp data is what somebody else will pay you.

  • So it's not just paying people a lot.

  • And it's not just paying people for performance.

  • It's almost the opposite.

  • It's expecting extraordinary performance

  • and paying you well for the extraordinary work.

  • And then the other thing is not all jobs are equal,

  • and not all jobs are equally as important to the company.

  • So I do also--

  • so I tend to talk to big companies now, and lots

  • of startups.

  • So startup CEO dinner, I'm up in the city.

  • And one guy says, well, you know,

  • your high-performance thing, you don't really mean everybody.

  • And I said, yeah, I do.

  • I mean everybody-- you should have

  • a high performer at every job.

  • And he goes, yeah, but not the ones that are unimportant.

  • And I said, well, really?

  • Which job at your company is not important?

  • He goes, well, you know, like, like payroll or something.

  • And I said, seriously?

  • You don't what somebody really good

  • figuring out how to pay your really brilliant engineers, who

  • I'm sure are the ones that are really important?

  • And he goes, well, I'm just saying.

  • I'm like, you don't want them to be accurate?

  • He's like, well, it's just they don't

  • have to be like-- yes, they do.

  • They have to be really great.

  • And I said, hey, by the way, tip for you.

  • Your finance organization hates you.

  • [LAUGHTER]

  • And he goes, I don't think you know my finance organization.

  • I'm like, oh, hell yeah, I do.

  • You just told me, a perfect stranger,

  • you think your payroll supervisor is stupid.

  • They know you think they're all stupid

  • because they can't write code.

  • It's a completely different skill set.

  • And furthermore, when you're not looking,

  • they're thinking of ways to torture you, because that's

  • what finance people do.

  • So yeah, I don't-- the pay for performance thing works when

  • you, you know, what you do is valuable,

  • then you should pay a lot for it.

  • Do you want to yell?

  • Or here-- here it comes.

  • AUDIENCE: So how do you build a culture of excellence like that

  • without also creating a culture of fear and ego and toxicity?

  • PATTY MCCORD: Well, fear is a hard one

  • to get rid of, because part of it is adrenaline.

  • So I remember one time, one of our executives was talk--

  • one of them was, he was talking about

  • that this particular year, the things that we were going

  • to do and succeed at were not going to be incremental,

  • they were going to be monumental.

  • And he used climbing K2 as his metaphor.

  • [LAUGHTER]

  • Here we are.

  • So at the end--

  • this had been a big culture of fear

  • was the new meme around the company,

  • and we're at this executive meeting.

  • And it was bigger meeting, quarterly business review.

  • And at the end, Reed and I go to the front.

  • We're answering questions.

  • And he says, I want to hear you and Patty

  • talk about the culture of fear.

  • I'm like, oh, for God's sake.

  • Really?

  • So Reed says, well, you just used the metaphor of K2.

  • You have to have oxygen. And if you get halfway up

  • and a blizzard comes in, you go back down to base camp,

  • there's no shame.

  • This isn't for the timid.

  • So the toxicity and the egos, those people

  • just don't need to work there anymore.

  • Somebody's got to just ferret that out.

  • And you have to--

  • that's why the culture of honesty is so important,

  • so that I can say to you, hey, wait a minute.

  • Excuse me, but in this meeting, she's still talking,

  • and you just cut her off.

  • So can you let her finish?

  • Thanks.

  • And then you do, and she lives, and life goes on.

  • You have to model the right behavior.

  • You have to be able to say, that was a jerk move right there,

  • buddy.

  • I mean, you just have to be able to have those conversations.

  • It's the shitspering that gets us in trouble--

  • you know, talking shit in a whisper?

  • That's toxic.

  • And you can be--

  • in my book, there's a chapter about debate.

  • We loved debate on behalf of the customer,

  • on behalf of the customer, on behalf of the customer.

  • And you can be pretty worked up when you're

  • talking about the product.

  • I used to tell my HR team, we are a service organization.

  • It is not spelled S-E-R-V-A-N-T-S.

  • And the people that we serve don't work here.

  • The people that we serve are our moms and our neighbors

  • and ourselves.

  • So it's our job to put together teams

  • that build incredible stuff.

  • When I talk to my--

  • I've been gone six years.

  • So it's a long time, and Netflix is a very different company

  • now.

  • Netflix is a global original content company.

  • And what's very successful for them now is they've

  • extended that culture of freedom and responsibility

  • to the creative talent.

  • That's why they get the people they get.

  • That's why Shonda Rhimes wants to work at Netflix and not

  • at ABC, because nobody's walking around telling her what to do.

  • AUDIENCE: I'll hand over the mike in a second.

  • Just like, how do--

  • does it create a culture of, like, competition [INAUDIBLE]??

  • PATTY MCCORD: No, because remember

  • how I started with team?

  • So the thing about the individual competing

  • with individuals, that shouldn't happen when you have a larger

  • collective thing to do.

  • I mean, it might happen for you guys

  • because you have more products.

  • But these teams are formed to focus

  • on solving a particular problem in a particular time frame.

  • And teams are formed to do that because individuals can't.

  • They can't.

  • That's the deal.

  • I tell, back when I talk to startup guys,

  • again, I'm like, OK, in your little startup,

  • here's the first sign of trouble--

  • nostalgia.

  • Remember how it used to be?

  • And I tell them, really successful companies

  • are not made of 50 people working 24/7.

  • AUDIENCE: It's not about product.

  • It's solving-- it's groups that are solving a problem,

  • like functional--

  • PATTY MCCORD: That's right.

  • Groups solving problems that are clear to everybody.

  • So everybody has a role.

  • So when people are competing, then

  • what are they competing for?

  • Is it one meaty job and you've got two people?

  • That's what drives competition.

  • Is it that you know that in the end, there's only one job,

  • and there's four people trying to get it,

  • instead of just picking one?

  • It goes back to honesty, I think.

  • SPEAKER 1: All right.

  • We'll do two more questions.

  • Over there, I think, and then over here.

  • AUDIENCE: Thank you very much.

  • I actually read the book.

  • PATTY MCCORD: Ah.

  • AUDIENCE: Amazing book.

  • Thank you very much for the book.

  • One big impression I actually got from the book

  • is one of the major components for Netflix

  • to sustain such a culture and model

  • is to have a very powerful and strong recruiting team.

  • PATTY MCCORD: Yes.

  • AUDIENCE: And the HR department was [INAUDIBLE]..

  • My question is, I guess for a smaller company, maybe

  • a startup or even Netflix in its early days,

  • where the recruiting in HR is not

  • as strong as it is right now, is such a culture sustainable?

  • PATTY MCCORD: Well, since you read the book,

  • you know that the other secret of the great recruiting

  • team at Netflix is that it's not the great recruiting team's

  • job to recruit people.

  • It's everybody's.

  • And the number one job of a hiring manager

  • is to know the right talent to build an amazing team that

  • gets quality work done on time.

  • And so I used to say--

  • I'll tell you this one last story.

  • Back in the day, when I was a software engineering recruiter,

  • I studied the habits of software engineers.

  • And so I happened to know that there's always

  • that weird ethnic restaurant in the strip mall

  • that is the place du jour that you eat.

  • This is before we all had restaurants

  • all over our campuses.

  • So I'd go find that little Thai place in Cupertino.

  • And in the lobby, they'd have the fishbowl

  • you put your business card in, you get a free lunch.

  • Do you guys still go to those funky little strip mall joints?

  • And I'd go, and I'd just take the fishbowl.

  • And I'd go to the back and dump it out.

  • This is in the old days before cell phones.

  • And I'd just dump it out, write down all the names,

  • and go back to work and call them all,

  • because it was where all the software engineers work.

  • And now I say, that's why God gave us LinkedIn now.

  • So you can do that.

  • You should be looking for members of your team

  • all the time.

  • It's everybody's job.

  • It's HR's job to facilitate it and to really

  • understand what the market is and where to go get people.

  • But it's everybody's job to bring great talent in.

  • And that's the difference.

  • It's not just a great recruiting team.

  • And my great recruiting team was, and is,

  • so great there because they feel like they're

  • partners in bringing in talent.

  • They're not recruiters in HR.

  • Do you have a question?

  • AUDIENCE: Hi, Patty.

  • My question is how do you evaluate or think

  • of high performance in the context

  • of very ambitious and risky projects that didn't go well?

  • PATTY MCCORD: Well, I think you figure out what you wanted to--

  • you do it like any other software

  • product, any other product.

  • You postmortem it.

  • When it didn't go well, you stop and say--

  • you pause, and you get the team together

  • and say, what should we have done differently?

  • Did we mis-scope it?

  • Did we miss the readiness of the product for the customer?

  • Was it the wrong team?

  • Were we unclear about goals?

  • So I mean, everything I learned about people,

  • I learned from product managers.

  • You start with the end, and you work your way back.

  • What are we trying to accomplish?

  • What's it going to look like?

  • What's quality look like?

  • When's the delivery date?

  • That's the other thing we don't do very well,

  • is put time wrappers on stuff.

  • So it's like, so yeah, we accomplished it,

  • but it was six months late.

  • What should we have known when we

  • made that date at the beginning that we didn't know now?

  • So that's the part about--

  • you talked about development.

  • That's the continuous learning part that I think all of us

  • should do as teams.

  • Make sense?

  • OK.

  • SPEAKER 1: All right.

  • Well, thank you, Patty.

  • Thank you, everyone, for coming.

  • Let's give one more round of applause.

  • [APPLAUSE]

[MUSIC PLAYING]

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A2 初級 美國腔

打造高績效文化 Netflix 前人資長 Patty McCord(Creating High Performance Culture | Patty McCord | Talks at Google)

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    JJ 發佈於 2021 年 04 月 13 日
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