that I began to feel whole,

我開始感覺到完整。

to feel that I was where I was supposed to be.

感覺到我在我應該在的地方。

(upbeat instrumental music)

(歡快的器樂)

I'm Jane Fonda and I'm supposed to explain it all

我是簡-方達，我應該解釋這一切。

in this interview.

在這次採訪中。

I'll do my best.

我會盡力的。

(upbeat instrumental music)

(歡快的器樂)

I was never confident.

我從來沒有信心。

I'm still not particularly confident.

我還是沒有特別的信心。

I never thought I would be a performer.

我從來沒有想過我會成為一個表演者。

I was very shy.

我是很害羞的。

In fact, I didn't know what I wanted to do,

其實，我也不知道自己想做什麼。

which is very common today for young people.

這是當今年輕人非常普遍的現象。

It's really hard to be young, and I found it very hard

年輕人真的很辛苦，我覺得很辛苦。

and I floundered around for quite a long time.

而我卻在這裡徘徊了相當長的時間。

My dad never came home from his work.

我爸爸下班後從來沒有回家。

He was a movie actor, a star.

他是一個電影演員，一個明星。

He never came home carrying joy.

他從來沒有帶著快樂回家。

I never got a sense that he found joy in his work.

我從來沒有感覺到他在工作中找到了樂趣。

So why did I want to be an actor?

那我為什麼要當演員呢？

So I didn't want to be an actor until I knew I was about 18

所以我在18歲之前都沒有想當演員。

and then I had to move out of my father's house.

然後我不得不搬出我父親的房子。

I didn't know what to do.

我不知道該怎麼辦。

And I met Lee Strasberg's daughter, who said,

而我遇到了李-斯特拉斯伯格的女兒，她說。

"Well, you should study with Lee.

"嗯，你應該跟李先生學習。

"You should study with my dad."

"你應該跟我爸爸學習。"

And he accepted me into his class.

而他也接受我進了他的班級。

Nobody had ever told me I was particularly good at anything

從來沒有人告訴過我，我在任何事情上都特別擅長。

so when Lee Strasberg said,

所以當李斯特拉斯伯格說。

"I see a lot of people come through here

"我看到很多人經過這裡

"and you have real talent."

"你有真正的天賦。"

Oh, I really felt like the top of my head came off

哦，我真的覺得我的頭頂都要掉下來了。

and birds flew out and the color of the sky changed.

和鳥兒飛了出去，天空的顏色也發生了變化。

And when I walked down onto Broadway after that class,

而當我上完那節課後走到百老匯的時候。

I felt like I owned the city.

我覺得自己是這個城市的主人。

It was amazing.

太神奇了

I was transformed immediately.

我馬上就被改變了。

They always put me in roles of kind of the girl next door,

他們總是讓我扮演鄰家女孩的角色。

you know, the ingenue.

你知道，獨創性。

And you know, I was fairly good and I did many of them,

你知道，我相當不錯，我做了很多人。

but I never enjoyed it.

但我從來沒有享受過它。

During my second movie,

在我的第二部電影中。

it was called "Walk on the Wild Side,"

它被稱為 "野路子"。

I played a vagabond during the Depression,

我在大蕭條時期扮演了一個流浪漢。

a tough street girl and she became a hooker.

一個強悍的街頭女孩，她成了一個妓女。

And I really liked playing a character like that.

而且我很喜歡扮演這樣的角色。

I could sink my teeth into it.

我可以沉下心來

I just loved it.

我只是喜歡它。

I just loved doing that.

我只是喜歡這樣做。

(upbeat instrumental music)

(歡快的器樂)

When I was living in France, married to a French director,

我在法國生活的時候，嫁給了一個法國導演。

I had just had a baby.

我剛剛生了個孩子。

I found it very uncomfortable

我覺得很不舒服

that the French people were attacking the United States

法國人民正在攻擊美國

for the war in Vietnam.

為越南戰爭。

I didn't yet understand that,

我還不明白這一點。

oh, they've been there already.

哦，他們已經在那裡了。

They tried to colonize the Vietnamese

他們試圖在越南殖民

and they were defeated.

而他們卻被打敗了。

So they know very well

所以他們很清楚

that we're not gonna be able to succeed.

我們不會成功的。

And my attitude was sour grapes

而我的態度是酸葡萄

just cause they didn't win their war.

只是因為他們沒有贏得他們的戰爭。

You know, I hadn't looked into it enough.

你知道，我還沒有研究夠。

I didn't really understand.

我真的不明白。

And then a group of American soldiers were in Paris

然後一群美國士兵在巴黎。

who had been in Vietnam, they had fought in Vietnam,

在越南打過仗的人，他們在越南打過仗。

and they had left.

而他們已經離開了。

It's called deserting or resisting.

這叫逃亡或抵抗。

And I met these guys

我遇到了這些人

and they started talking to me about the war.

他們開始跟我談起戰爭。

And they gave me a book to read by Jonathan Schell

他們給了我一本喬納森-謝爾的書讓我讀

called "The Village of Ben Suc."

叫 "本蘇村"。

And I read it and my whole life changed.

而我讀了它，我的整個生活都改變了。

It was like, pew.

這就像，擢。

And I thought to myself, I have to go back home

我心想，我得回家去了

and become part of the anti-war movement.

併成為反戰運動的一部分。

And eventually about a year later I did.

最終大約一年後，我做到了。

Those years of ending the war,

結束戰爭的那些年。

that was the beginning for me.

這是我的開始。

I learned a lot.

我學到了很多東西。

(upbeat instrumental music)

(歡快的器樂)

I became an activist in 1970.

我在1970年成為一名活動家。

I was 31.

我當時31歲

And when I was with people,

而當我與人。

Native Americans on indigenous lands

土著土地上的美國土著人

or soldiers on military bases, you know,

或軍事基地的阿兵哥，你知道的。

these are people that I would spend time with

這些都是我願意花時間的人

because they were dealing with problems

因為他們在處理問題

that I was working through various movements on.

我正在通過各種運動來研究。

And my celebrity created a distance

和我的名人產生了距離

between me and those people, frontline people,

我和那些人，一線的人之間。

real people on the ground.

真正的人在地面上。

And so I felt, well if I'm going to do this,

所以我覺得，好吧，如果我要做這件事。

meaning be an organizer,

意思是做一個組織者。

I probably shouldn't be a movie star anymore.

我也許不應該再當電影明星了。

And I had a friend, a Black lawyer in Michigan

我有一個朋友，密歇根州的一個黑人律師。

named Ken Cockrel, and I said to him,

叫肯-科克雷爾，我對他說：

he was like my mentor for a while,

他就像我的導師一段時間。

and I said, "Ken, I think I'm gonna quit the business.

我說："肯，我想我要退出這個行業了。

"I don't want to be in Hollywood anymore.

"我不想再在好萊塢混了。

"I want to be an organizer."

"我想成為一名組織者。"

And he sat me down and he said,

他讓我坐下，他說：

"Fonda, the movement has countless organizers.

"方達，運動有無數的組織者。

"We don't have movie stars.

"我們沒有電影明星。

"You not only have to keep on acting,

"你不僅要繼續演下去。

"but you have to take more control of your career.

"但你必須更多的控制你的職業生涯。

"Have agency on the work that you do."

"對你所做的工作要有代理權。"

And I was stunned and I began to think about that.

我當時就驚呆了，我開始思考這個問題。

And out of that came "Coming Home," and "9 to 5,"

於是就有了 "回家 "和 "朝九晚五"。

and "China Syndrome," and movies that reflected

和《中國綜合症》，以及反映的電影。

issues that were interesting to me.

我感興趣的問題。

(upbeat instrumental music)

(歡快的器樂)

My identity was never, ever being a star, being a celebrity.

我的身份從來，都是明星，是名人。

You know, movies, it's what I did.

你知道，電影，這是我做的。

I had to support myself.

我得養活自己。

You know, people need to be useful.

你知道，人要有用。

People need, they might not even be conscious of it,

人們需要的，可能連自己都沒有意識到。

but people need to have meaning in their lives,

但人們的生活需要有意義。

a sense that they know why they're here.

一種他們知道自己為什麼在這裡的感覺。

And in the absence of that,

而在沒有這些的情況下。

I think there's a lot of, I feel, anxiety, malaise.

我覺得有很多，我覺得，焦慮，不安。

And you know, I think as a young person

你知道，我認為作為一個年輕人

you can get in a lot of trouble if you feel that way.

如果你這樣想，你會有很多麻煩。

When I was young, I would say like up to 25

當我年輕的時候，我會說，像高達25

or something like, you know, I just assumed

或類似的東西，你知道，我只是假設。

'cause I was floating in space

因為我在太空中漂浮

and I thought that I would probably die.

我想，我可能會死。

I'm sure I'm gonna become an alcoholic or a drug addict,

我肯定我會成為一個酒鬼或毒癮者。

and I'm gonna die alone.

而我將孤獨地死去

When I became an activist, the depression lifted.

當我成為積極分子後，抑鬱症就解除了。

I began to feel I know why I'm here.

我開始覺得我知道我為什麼在這裡了。

I'm here to use my platform as a celebrity

我是來利用我的平臺做名人的

to make things better.

以使事情變得更好。

It just took a long time.

只是花了很長時間。

It wasn't...

這不是...

And then I was always married. (laughs)

然後我一直在結婚。（笑）

I mean three times.

我的意思是三次。

My dad was married five times.

我爸爸結過五次婚。

So, you know, I very much didn't want to catch up to him.

所以，你知道，我非常不想追上他。

So I stopped at three realizing

所以我停在三點意識到

that I just wasn't dealt a hand

我只是不發牌

that made me good at relationships.

這讓我很擅長處理人際關係。

You know, even after I became an activist,

你知道，即使在我成為一個積極分子之後。

I always turned to men to help me find the next step.

我總是求助於男人來幫我找到下一步的方向。

I'd be going in a particular direction

我會朝著一個特定的方向發展

and then I would meet a man

然後我就會遇到一個男人

who could take me further down that road.

誰能帶我走更遠的路。

And then I would move on.

然後我會繼續前進。

Isn't that a terrible thing to say?

這話是不是很可怕？

It wasn't until I was finally single at 62

直到我62歲的時候，我終於單身了。

that I began to feel whole,

我開始感覺到完整。

to feel that I was where I was supposed to be.

感覺到我在我應該在的地方。

(upbeat instrumental music)

(歡快的器樂)

When it comes to relationships with men,

在和男人談戀愛的時候。

you know, the problem is falling in love.

你知道，問題是戀愛。

What's wrong with that sentence?

這句話有什麼問題？

Not love. Falling.

不是愛。墜落。

And what happens to a lot of women

而很多女人的遭遇

is two people come together and the woman falls,

是兩個人走到一起，女人倒下了。

or at least a lot of women, me, I'll just talk about myself.

或者至少是很多女人，我，我就說說我自己。

I would tend to mold myself

我會傾向於塑造自己

according to what my then-husband wanted me to be.

根據我當時的丈夫希望我成為。

But there was always a center to myself

但我自己始終有一箇中心

that they never touched.

他們從未接觸過的。

My friend Eve Ensler, the author of "Vagina Monologues,"

我的朋友伊芙-恩斯勒，"陰道獨白 "的作者。

you know, she said,

你知道，她說。

"The three things that you have to look for

"三件事 "要注意的是

"when you go into a relationship: you want to feel safe,

"當你進入一個關係： 你想感到安全。

"you want to feel seen, and you want to feel cherished."

"你要感覺到被看到， 你要感覺到珍惜。"

What I realized now is two people that love each other,

我現在意識到的是兩個相愛的人。

whether it's two women, two men,

無論是兩個女人，兩個男人。

or a man or woman, or whatever,

或男人或女人，或什麼的。

coming together and they stay on their own two feet,

一起走來，他們保持自己的兩隻腳。

two whole people coming together

璧合

and maintaining their agency, their strength,

並保持他們的機構、力量。

while at the same time caring for the other,

同時又能照顧到對方。

nurturing the other, cherishing the other,

培養對方，珍惜對方。

but never losing themselves.

卻從未失去過自己。

I think that in there lies the secret

我想這裡面就有祕密

to a successful relationship.

到一個成功的關係。

What I found very often is if the woman shows up fully

我經常發現的是，如果女方全副武裝的出現

and she's present and she says to her partner, "Come on.

和她的存在，她說她的合作伙伴，"來吧。

"Meet me here where I am."

"在我所在的地方見我。"

The man will flee.

那人將會逃走。

At least those are the men that I chose. (chuckles)

至少這些都是我選擇的男人。（笑）

What I've realized in my dotage, my old age,

我在我的晚年，我的晚年所意識到的。

is probably that men showed up for me and said,

是可能男人為我出現了，說。

"Come on, Jane, I'm here. Show up."

"來吧，簡，我在這裡。出現了。"

And I fled.

我就逃走了。

I wonder how many men who were really perfect for me

我不知道有多少男人對我來說是完美的

I fled because they would have made me show up.

我逃走是因為他們會讓我出現。

And instead, I chose men

而我卻選擇了男人

who wouldn't know what that even meant

誰也不知道那是什麼意思

so they never asked me to.

所以他們從來沒有要求我。

(upbeat instrumental music)

(歡快的器樂)

I mean I can give all kinds of parenting advice.

我的意思是我可以給各種育兒建議。

None of it is what I practiced.

都不是我練的。

I have studied parenting to find out, can it be taught?

我研究了一下育兒知識，可以教嗎？

Can it be learned?

能不能學？

Because I didn't know what it meant,

因為我不知道這是什麼意思。

and I didn't know how to be one.

而我卻不知道如何成為一個。

I married men who were good fathers, okay?

我嫁的男人都是好父親，好嗎？

I was lucky.

我是幸運的。

Two of my three husbands I had children with.

我的三個丈夫中有兩個是和我生過孩子的。

A parent is supposed to show up with open eyes,

父母應該睜大眼睛出現。

eyes of love, and reflect the child back to themselves

愛的眼睛，把孩子反射給自己

with eyes of love, and know how to listen.

用愛的眼睛，懂得傾聽。

If because of depression or addiction or whatever

如果因為抑鬱症或者毒癮或者其他什麼原因的話

you have duct tape over your eyes,

你的眼睛上有膠布

it's not gonna work very well.

這不是要去工作非常好。

I didn't know how to show up.

我不知道如何出現。

I was a food addict.

我是一個食物上癮者。

I was an addict and it screws around with you.

我曾經是個癮君子，它在你身上亂搞。

And I apologized to them, but you know,

我也向他們道歉了，但你知道。

it's hard to make up for what you didn't do.

亡羊補牢，為時已晚

However, you know, I do believe that it's never too late.

然而，你知道，我相信，這永遠不會太晚。

So, you know, I try as best I can to do a better job now.

所以，你知道，我儘量我現在可以做得更好。

And I love having grandkids.

而且我喜歡有孫子。

They're like second chances.

他們就像第二次機會。

You can also give them back

你也可以還給他們

at the end of the day. (chuckles)

在一天結束的時候。（笑）

(upbeat instrumental music)

(歡快的器樂)

My women friends are a big priority for me.

我的女性朋友是我的重中之重。

I just have never been able

我只是從來沒有能夠

to have the kind of relationships with men

和男人的那種關係

that I have with my women friends.

我和我的女性朋友們。

Most of my women friends are younger than me,

我的大部分女性朋友都比我年輕。

and braver than me, and they challenge me,

比我更勇敢，他們挑戰我。

and make better and put starch in my spine.

並使好轉，把澱粉放在我的脊柱上。

And do you know that there was a study done

你知道有一個研究做了

at Harvard Medical School that showed

哈佛醫學院的研究表明

that not having women friends is more dangerous

沒有女性朋友更危險

to your health or as dangerous to your health as smoking?

對你的健康或像吸菸一樣危害你的健康？

It's our superpower, and men don't have that superpower.

這是我們的超能力，而男人沒有這種超能力。

Very few men do.

很少有男人這樣做。

I don't know, I think it's evolutionary.

我不知道，我想這是進化論。

They went out hunting with their spears to get meat,

他們拿著長矛出去打獵取肉。

and we would stay back having our children,

我們會留下來生孩子

circling with grandmothers and young mothers and children,

和奶奶、年輕的母親和孩子們一起轉圈。

everybody helping each other.

大家互相幫助。

We knew even back in the hunter-gatherer stage

我們甚至在狩獵採集階段就已經知道了

of our development about interdependence,

我們關於相互依存的發展。

interdependence with the natural world and with each other.