Name: 法國總統馬克龍爭取贏得保守派的支持 - BBC新聞之夜 (President Macron’s fight to win over conservatives in France - BBC Newsnight)
Uploaded: 2021-03-24T18:45:20.000Z
Duration: 7 min 42 s

there's a new target on student placards these days.

現在的學生標語牌有了新的目標。

Frederick Videl, France's higher education minister.

法國高等教育部長弗雷德裡克-維德爾。

Her priority in the midst of a global pandemic root out Islamist sympathies from French universities with a government probe into academic research.

她在全球大流行中的優先事項是根除法國大學的伊斯蘭主義同情者，政府對學術研究的調查。

We have a very strong extreme right, so you cannot play with fire by saying you want to get get rid of Islamism and universities.

我們有很強的極右派，所以你不能說要除掉伊斯蘭主義和大學就玩火。

The row of a university research is part of a wider government offensive against Islamist ideology in France.

一所大學研究的行徑是法國政府對伊斯蘭主義意識形態的更廣泛攻勢的一部分。

At its heart, a new law designed to stop the separation of some Muslim communities from mainstream French society.

其核心是一項旨在阻止一些穆斯林社區與法國主流社會分離的新法律。

What we have to attack is Islamist separation, a political religious project which emerges out of riffs with the values of the republic and often leads to a counter society.

我們要抨擊的是伊斯蘭教的分離，這是一個政治宗教項目，它是在與共和國價值觀的撕裂中出現的，往往會導致一個反社會。

But Mr Macron is struggling to bridge rifts even within his own political party, and fear of Islamist extremism is home turf.

但馬克龍先生甚至在自己的政黨內部也在努力彌合分歧，對伊斯蘭極端主義的恐懼是主場。

To his far right rival, Marine Le Pen, public opinion is telling Macron, you can't look away, so it pretends it talks tough.

對他的極右翼對手馬琳-勒龐，輿論在告訴馬克龍，你不能看走眼，所以它假裝嘴硬。

But in reality this law is laughable and doesn't in any way protect the French.

但實際上這個法律很可笑，絲毫不能保護法國人。

The new law, which has already passed the lower house of parliament would put tighter controls on religious funding, education and cultural associations.

已經在議會下院通過的新法律將對宗教資金、教育和文化協會進行更嚴格的控制。

There are also tougher penalties for threatening public servants or endangering others by spreading personal information online.

對於威脅公務員或在網上散佈個人信息危害他人的行為，也有更嚴厲的處罰。

The question of who's tougher on Islamist extremism provoked a tussle on live television last month when Macron's interior minister accused Le Pen of being too soft and advised her to take some vitamins.

上個月，馬克龍的內政部長指責勒龐太軟弱，並建議她吃點維生素，誰對伊斯蘭極端主義更強硬的問題在電視直播中引發了一場爭論。

You're going further than I am then Le Penn asks him.

你比我走得更遠，然後勒龐問他。

Well, yes, the minister says, I'm harder than you, but it's not just those who preach violence who are under the microscope.

嗯，是的，部長說，我比你狠，但在顯微鏡下的不僅僅是那些宣揚暴力的人。

Macron is keen to tackle the roots of Islamist extremism in schools, mosques and associations, and that's left some Muslims feeling unfairly targeted.

馬克龍熱衷於解決學校、清真寺和協會中伊斯蘭極端主義的根源，這讓一些穆斯林感到不公平的目標。

Luckily, school was closed late last year in what the Paris authorities called the fight against separatism.

幸運的是，去年年底，學校在巴黎當局所謂的反分裂主義鬥爭中被關閉。

But the legal grounds for the closure were administrative, with no mention of any Islamist activity.

但關閉的法律理由是行政性的，沒有提到任何伊斯蘭活動。

Annan says her school taught a strictly secular curriculum and is appealing the decision.

安南說，她的學校教授的是嚴格的世俗課程，正在對這一決定提出上訴。

We asked the Paris prefecture for comment, but no one was able to respond.

我們向巴黎縣政府求證，但沒有人能夠迴應。

We think it's a discrimination and just because we have a girl who had who were headscarf.

我們認為這是一種歧視，只是因為我們有一個女孩誰有誰是頭巾。

Um, they put us in the case of extremism, so they shut down our school, and that is a problem because they don't attack only the extremist people.

嗯，他們把我們在極端主義的情況下，所以他們關閉我們的學校，這是一個問題，因為他們不攻擊只有極端主義的人。

Religious symbols like headscarves are banned in all French state schools, was private and the only secular school in Paris to allow them.

法國所有公立學校都禁止戴頭巾等宗教符號，是私立學校，也是巴黎唯一允許戴頭巾的世俗學校。

For 15 year old Rouhani, it means she's now back at an Islamic school, despite wanting a secular education.

對於15歲的魯哈尼來說，這意味著她現在又回到了一所伊斯蘭學校，儘管她想接受世俗教育。

For us was a school who you can were without Islamic course.

對我們來說，是一所學校，你可以沒有伊斯蘭課程。

You don't learn Koran, you don't have a religious course, and it's why you choose what I choose to go back to the Islamic school.

你不學《古蘭經》，你沒有宗教課程，所以你才會選擇我選擇回到伊斯蘭學校。

Like I said, I didn't feel very good about it.

就像我說的，我感覺不是很好。

It was either removed my scarf or go back to my Islamic school.

要麼摘掉我的圍巾，要麼回我的伊斯蘭學校去。

Macron wants to ensure that religious teaching is in line with French national values.

馬克龍希望確保宗教教導符合法國的國家價值觀。

He's demanded more control over the funding and training of France's imams and introduced a charter of Republican values for them to sign.

他要求對法國伊瑪目的資金和培訓進行更多的控制，並提出了一個共和國價值觀的憲章，讓他們簽署。

The head of the Paris mosque was one of the first to sign it.

巴黎清真寺的負責人是第一批簽字的人之一。

We need to establish a bond of trust between the Republic and the Muslim community.

我們需要在共和國和穆斯林社區之間建立信任的紐帶。

I know some people don't like it because we're supposed to be citizens already, but I think this needs to be done and we're the ones who need to make the effort to be considered as citizens.

我知道有些人不喜歡，因為我們應該已經是公民了，但我認為這需要做，我們才是需要努力被視為公民的人。

I don't see this as reductive, more humiliating at all.

我不認為這是歸納，更多的是羞辱。

There's a link between Islam and terrorism.

伊斯蘭教和恐怖主義之間有聯繫。

No one should kill in the name of Islam, and on that there's work to be done.

任何人都不應該以伊斯蘭教的名義殺人，在這一點上還有工作要做。

The Islamist beheading of school teacher Samuel Petty in a suburban street last year turned up the pressure on President Macron.

去年伊斯蘭教徒在郊區街道斬殺學校教師塞繆爾-佩蒂的事件，使總統馬克龍的壓力大增。

A recent poll suggested that almost half of French voters think Marine Le Pen would do better on security and that a similar number thinks she is likely to win the presidential race next year, man.

最近的一項民調顯示，近半數的法國選民認為瑪麗娜-勒龐會在安全問題上做得更好，同樣數量的人認為她有可能在明年的總統選舉中獲勝，人。

But there are others questioning whether the government is going too far.

但也有人質疑政府是否太過分了。

When Samuel Patty was beheaded, I was there only a few meters away from the body.

當塞繆爾-帕蒂被砍頭時，我就在離屍體只有幾米遠的地方。

我們是否充分意識到發生了什麼？

A teacher was beheaded with a knife at five in the afternoon in the middle of the street because he taught a class on freedom of speech.

下午五點，一位老師因為講授言論自由的課程，被人用刀子在大街上斬首。

I think there's a huge fight to be had against terrorism and radical Islamism.

我認為有一個巨大的鬥爭，以打擊恐怖主義和激進的伊斯蘭主義。

For Marine Le Pen, the challenge is to appear softer, not harder.

對於瑪麗娜-勒龐來說，挑戰是要顯得更柔和，而不是更硬。

More than any other party in France, her house emblem on national is now seen as the main opposition to macron.

比法國其他任何政黨，她的家徽在國家上現在被視為馬克龍的主要反對派。

Tighter controls on religious organizations have angered conservative Christians as well as Muslims.

對宗教組織的更嚴格控制激怒了保守的基督徒以及穆斯林。

Marine Le Pen, often labeled Islamophobic, says she's the ally of the faithful In France.

常被貼上伊斯蘭恐懼症標籤的瑪麗娜-勒龐說，她是法國信徒的盟友。

There is religion, on one hand, an ideology on the other.

一方面是宗教，另一方面是意識形態。

The government has made a narrower in thinking that Islamism derives from the Muslim religion and that all religions are guilty in a way, the low wants to restrain Islamism by putting at risk the freedom of religion.

政府在思維上做得比較狹隘，認為伊斯蘭主義來源於穆斯林宗教，所有的宗教在某種程度上都是有罪的，低想通過危及宗教自由來限制伊斯蘭主義。

I ask about her policy of banning the Muslim headscarf from French streets.

我問起她禁止穆斯林頭巾出現在法國街頭的政策。

Would that also apply to the Jewish keeper.

這是否也會適用於猶太人的守護者。

As I have said to, my Jewish compatriots were asking for a sacrifice to renounce the wearing of the kippah in order to be able to ban the headscarf, which I see as part of Islamist combat.

正如我曾對我說過的，我的猶太同胞是要求放棄戴基帕的犧牲，以便能夠禁止戴頭巾，我認為這是伊斯蘭主義鬥爭的一部分。

It's still over a year until the next presidential race, but France is preparing for a rematch between Macron and Le Pen.

距離下屆總統選舉還有一年多的時間，但法國正在準備馬克龍和勒龐之間的重賽。

One poll has put them just four points apart.

一項民調顯示，他們的差距只有4個百分點。

The gamble for France's centrist president is whether winning votes on the right will make up for losing them on the left.

法國中間派總統的賭注是，在右翼贏得選票能否彌補在左翼失去的選票。

The electorate of of Marine Le Pen is extremely mobilised.

馬琳-勒龐的選民被極力動員起來。

They are going to support Marine Le Pen, and so if the electorate of macron without hesitation, the left would abstain, then you can get very, very narrow result.

他們會支持馬琳-勒龐，所以如果馬克龍的選民毫不猶豫地，左派會棄權，那麼你可以得到非常，非常狹窄的結果。

Yeah, Emmanuel Macron rose to power four years ago, promising to bridge France's political divide.

是啊，埃馬紐埃爾-馬克龍四年前上臺，承諾要彌合法國的政治分歧。

 But the old left and right of politics has enduring power for many voters, and the man who wanted to unite them both may find himself faced with choosing sides. 

但政治上的老左和老右對許多選民來說具有持久的力量，而想把這兩者統一起來的人可能會發現自己面臨選邊站。