All of this at a DAX listed company last June, the dealings that wire card came to light the German payment service provider went bankrupt after executives admitted that almost €2 billion and assets we're likely non existent.

所有這一切在DAX上市公司去年6月，電線卡的交易曝光後，德國支付服務提供商破產的高管承認，近20億歐元和資產，我們很可能不存在。

Since then, many have been asking, How could this have been happened?

從那以後，很多人都在問，怎麼會發生這樣的事情？

Today?

今天？

A parliamentary inquiry committee is presenting some of their findings to the outside world.

一個議會調查委員會正在向外界介紹他們的一些調查結果。

It was a successful doc's group, but in reality it was riddled with fraud.

這是一個成功的醫生集團，但實際上它充滿了欺詐。

Behind a clean facade, criminals were at work.

在清白的外表下，犯罪分子正在作案。

Former CEO Markus Braun is currently in custody.

前CEO馬庫斯-布勞恩目前已被羈押。

X Asia board member Yanmar Zoellick is a fugitive wire card, was once an electronic payments service provider and even operated a bank in Germany.

X亞洲董事會成員Yanmar Zoellick是一名電卡逃犯，曾經是一家電子支付服務提供商，甚至在德國經營一家銀行。

But it turns out some sales were completely made up.

但事實證明，有些銷量完全是編出來的。

The balance sheet showed a €1.9 billion hole.

資產負債表顯示出19億歐元的窟窿。

Since then, public prosecutors began investigating the company on commercial fraud and document falsification charges.

此後，公訴人開始以商業欺詐和文件造假罪對該公司進行調查。

There had been rumors for years.

多年來一直有傳言。

Media outlets repeatedly reported inconsistencies, but each year the E Y auditing firm gave wire card a seal of approval.

媒體多次報道不一致，但每年E Y審計公司都給電線卡蓋章。

The German financial regulator, Boffin didn't investigate the allegations either quite the opposite.

德國金融監管機構博芬也沒有調查這些指控恰恰相反。

Journalists who reported on fraudulent dealings at wire card received complaints.

記者報道了電線卡的欺詐交易，收到了投訴。

Since October, a parliamentary investigative committee has been scrutinizing the role of the authorities in this scandal.

自10月以來，一個議會調查委員會一直在審查當局在這一醜聞中的作用。

But one thing is certain.

但有一點是肯定的。

Germany's financial supervisors are ready for reforms.

德國的金融監管機構已經做好了改革的準備。

One of the heads of this inquiry committee is Fabio de Masi.

這個調查委員會的負責人之一是法比奧-德馬西。

He's a member of the German Parliament, the Bundestag, for the Left Party, and he joins me now.

他是德國議會，聯邦議院，左翼黨的成員，他現在和我一起。

Welcome to D.

歡迎來到D。

W.

W.

Fabia.

法比亞

What is your most important finding in this investigation so far?

到目前為止，你在這次調查中最重要的發現是什麼？

Mhm.

嗯

Well, our most important finding is that multiple state agencies failed to do the job properly while there were individuals that had warned those agencies.

嗯，我們最重要的發現是，多個國家機構沒有做好工作，而有個人曾警告過這些機構。

So there was a kind of collective attitude to close close eyes.

所以有一種集體閉目養神的態度。

And we also found that the German government was quite active, actually in China, in the context of the German Chinese financial dialogue to lobby for wire card.

而且我們還發現，德國政府相當積極，其實在中國，在德中金融對話的背景下，遊說線卡。

A lot of political personalities had been lobbying for wire card and just to give you one example, some of the supervisors that were supposed to, uh, ask tough questions on wire cut.

很多政治人物一直在遊說電報卡，僅舉一個例子，一些主管本來應該，呃，對電報卡提出嚴厲的問題。

We're actually trading in wire car chairs instead of doing their job So do you think that is one of the biggest problems here that state actors have been financially involved?

我們實際上是在用鋼絲車椅代替他們的工作進行交易，所以你認為這是國家行為人在經濟上參與的最大問題之一嗎？

Uh, when when owning, uh, wire car.

呃，當擁有，呃，電線車的時候。

Cheers.

乾杯。

Well, that's part of the story that some people in the supervision agencies were trading in those stocks and that we didn't have proper rules in Germany in place to prevent this kind of insider trading, for example, in the financial supervision authority.

嗯，這也是故事的一部分，監督機構的一些人在交易這些股票，我們德國沒有適當的規則來防止這種內幕交易，例如，在金融監督機構。

But on the other hand, we know that all those decisions that have been taken like the short selling ban on wire cut were approved by the ministry or at least have been notified in the German Ministry of Finance.

但另一方面，我們知道，所有這些已經做出的決定，比如賣空禁止線割，都是經過該部準許的，或者至少已經在德國財政部得到了通知。

So there's also the question on political responsibilities.

所以還有一個關於政治責任的問題。

And it was Chancellor Merkel who indeed lobbied the most powerful man in China for wire card.

而確實是默克爾總理遊說中國最有權勢的人辦理電線卡。

And you do not simply go to China just because her former economic minister, Gutenberg, who was a lobbyist for wire cut, told her so.

而你並不會因為她的前經濟部長古騰堡是剪電線的說客，就簡單地去中國。

But this was a decision that have been taken in the German government because, like wire cut was one of the key assets in the German Chinese financial dialogue.

但這是德國政府已經做出的決定，因為，像剪線是德中金融對話的關鍵資產之一。

And so, uh, the German government has to answer why they did not react to the reporting of the Financial Times.

所以，呃，德國政府必須回答為什麼他們沒有對《金融時報》的報道做出反應。

So this report or the scandal rather has moved Germany's federal financial watchdog into the crosshairs.

所以，這份報告或醜聞反而將德國聯邦金融監督機構搬上了風口浪尖。

It has a staff of 2700 but reportedly they're only five people who are licensed auditors.

它有2700名員工，但據說他們只有5人是持證審核員。

Do you see signs that the overhaul of the watchdog as a result of the scandal are going into the right direction?

你是否看到了因醜聞而導致的監察機構整頓正在走向正確方向的跡象？

Well, we have some minor improvements now, For example, we had a two t approach.

好了，我們現在有一些小的改進，比如說，我們有一個兩個t的方法。

So first we had a kind of like privately governed organization that was supposed to check balance sheets.

所以，首先我們有一種像私人管理的組織，應該檢查資產負債表。

And they had also multiple conflict of interests.

而且他們還存在多重利益衝突。

But for example, the so called DPR, which comes prior to the financial supervision watchdog buff in when it comes to checking the accuracy of balance sheets, they actually asked even why occur to equip them with arguments, why they should not investigate fraud so you could see a lot of collusion of interests here.

但例如，所謂的DPR，這是在金融監管監察buff之前，當它涉及到檢查資產負債表的準確性，他們實際上問甚至為什麼發生配備他們的論點，為什麼他們不應該調查欺詐，所以你可以看到這裡有很多利益勾結。

But indeed, the problem is the primary problem is that the German Financial Supervision Authority only has those five people who are even able to to audit companies, and that's insane.

但確實，問題是首要的問題是，德國金融監管局只有那五個人，甚至連審計公司的能力都沒有，這太瘋狂了。

That's like if the German police would basically go to the Formula One or two the October fast and Guevara and tell them to examine, You know, like alcohol controls on German roads.

這就像如果德國警方基本上會去一兩個方程式賽車十月快和格瓦拉，並告訴他們檢查，你知道，像德國道路上的酒精控制。

Uh, that's that's not possible.

呃，這是不可能的。

And so you need, uh, state agency that is able to do its job.

所以你需要，呃，國家機構能夠做好自己的工作。

It needs the best people in the market, and it needs tough people who ask the right questions.

它需要市場上最優秀的人，需要問對問題的強硬的人。

Democracy member of the parliamentary inquiry committee into the wire card scandal.

電報卡醜聞議會調查委員會的民主黨員。

Thank you for your thoughts.

謝謝你的想法。