I've always felt that way.

我一直有這種感覺。

Uh, Jerry West and I have spoken about this.

傑裡・韋斯特和我談過這個問題。

Obviously, he has no problem with the silhouette being changed.

很顯然，他對輪廓的改變沒有任何問題。

He never asked to be the silhouette to begin with.

他一開始就沒要求做剪影。

And fairness to him.

而且對他很公平。

Um, we all know that he was a great he was.

嗯，我們都知道，他是一個偉大的他。

He was a great player and a champion, uh, as well.

他是一個偉大的球員和冠軍，呃，以及。

But Michael Jordan is Michael Jordan, and I think that when we talk about Kobe and comparisons to Michael Jordan, think about the conversation that we have about LeBron James.

但邁克爾-喬丹就是邁克爾-喬丹，我認為當我們談論科比和與邁克爾-喬丹的比較時，想想我們關於勒布朗-詹姆斯的對話。

There is a debate as to whether or not LeBron James is the goat or MJ is to go.

到底是勒布朗-詹姆斯是羊，還是MJ要走，有爭議。

The reason why Kobe Bryant's name was never in the equation was because of M J.

之所以科比-布萊恩特的名字從未出現在等式中，是因為M J。

If if it was not for M J, we would have been saying LeBron or Kobe, you know?

如果不是因為M J，我們會說勒布朗或者科比，你知道嗎？

So we know how great Kobe was, and there's no questioning that.

所以我們知道科比有多偉大，這一點毋庸置疑。

And what have you?

那你有什麼？

It's just that Kobe Bryant playing the same position whose game essentially mimicked that of Michael Jordan, even though I could argue he was a better shooter than MJ In the end, when I think about what MJ accomplished.

只是科比-布萊恩特打同一個位置，其比賽基本上模仿了邁克爾-喬丹的比賽，儘管我可以說他是一個比MJ更好的射手 最後，當我想到MJ的成就。

Six trips to the NBA Finals, six NBA Finals, M V P six and O in the NBA Finals, undefeated throughout the eighties, when he played a full season, Uh, the man was, I'm sorry.

六次進入NBA總決賽，六次NBA總決賽，M V P六次和O在NBA總決賽，整個八十年代不敗，當他打了一個完整的賽季，呃，這個人是，我很抱歉。

The nineties, uh, the man was absolutely phenomenal.

九十年代，呃，這個人絕對是個了不起的人。

And then when you consider what he took from Magic and Bird in terms of elevating the NBA brand into a global brand and what he's meant, how he's already the silhouette for Nike and what have you?

然後當你考慮到他從魔術師和伯德那裡得到了什麼，在將NBA品牌提升為全球品牌方面，他的意義是什麼，他已經是耐克的剪影，還有什麼？

I just think that when you look at Michael Jordan, there's not a name in the modern era that I could put ahead of him.

我只是覺得，當你看到邁克爾-喬丹時，在現代沒有一個名字可以排在他前面。

That's my only issue.

這是我唯一的問題。

Kobe will be number two on that list.

科比將成為該榜單的第二名。

MJ would be number one.

MJ會是第一。

I've always felt the exact same way about Jordan.

我一直對喬丹有同樣的感覺。

It should be the Jump Man logo.

應該是跳跳俠的標誌。

The thing is, Nike owns the Jump Man logo.

問題是，耐克擁有 "跳躍人 "的標誌。

So how does that work, right?

那麼，如何操作呢，對嗎？

Don't use that logo.

不要用那個標誌。

So there's another use another, but that's the iconic logo.

所以還有另一個用途另一個，但這是標誌性的標誌。

You think of that logo when you like.

你喜歡的時候就會想到這個標誌。

That's the Jordan brand, right?

那是喬丹的品牌吧？

Um, I'll say I'll say this, Um, when Kyrie says Black Kings built the league.

嗯，我要說的是，嗯，當凱里說黑王建立聯盟的時候。

He's not wrong, although you gotta throw in.

他沒說錯，雖然你得加入。

Larry Bird, Black Kings and Larry Bird built the league.

拉里-伯德、黑王和拉里-伯德建立了聯盟。

Larry Bird was bad.

拉里-伯德很壞。

Bad brother.

壞哥哥

Anyway, the point is that I get the point like you that the silhouette in a largely African American league that was built largely by African American players to the position it is now.

總之，我和你一樣明白一個道理，那就是在一個主要由非洲裔美國球員建立的聯盟中，剪影到現在的位置。

And it is obviously the most popular game in urban areas.

而這顯然是在城市地區最受歡迎的遊戲。

Why is it that a white guy is a silhouette and Jerry West was a bad dude?

為什麼說白人是個剪影，而傑裡-韋斯特是個壞傢伙？

He was the Kobe Bryant of his day.

他就是當年的科比-布萊恩特。

I mean, he averaged 30 points every year and was Mr Clutch and was in the finals all the time, even if they weren't always winning.

我的意思是，他每年平均30分，而且是Clutch先生，一直在總決賽中，即使他們並不總是獲勝。

It won an M V p on the losing team in the finals once because he was so gangster.

曾經在總決賽中，因為他太拉幫結派了，所以在輸掉比賽的隊伍中贏得了一個M V P。

Jerry West, the greatest executive ever.

傑裡-韋斯特，有史以來最偉大的執行官。

I get it, but I understand that sentiment.

我明白，但我理解這種心情。

Wait a minute.

等一下

Can we have at least the silhouette of an African American player?

我們至少可以有一個非裔美國球員的剪影嗎？

And Jordan would be my first choice.

而喬丹會是我的第一選擇。

I think I understand the sentiment for Kobe, especially from Kyrie, because Kobe was a mentor to Kyrie Irving So Kyrie is standing up for his guy.

我想我理解科比的心情，尤其是凱里的心情，因為科比是凱里-歐文的導師，所以凱里是站在他的立場上的。

But I do feel as you do, Steven A.

但我的感覺和你一樣，Steven A.

That the admirable thing about Kobe was he looked at Jordan.

那科比令人敬佩的是他看上了喬丹。

The whole world wanted to be like Mike.

整個世界都想成為邁克那樣的人。

But who would dare actually try?

但誰又敢真正嘗試呢？

Kobe is like on the same size as this dude's play.

科比就像在這哥們兒的戲碼上。

The same position.

同樣的位置。

This dude, I'm gonna do him.

這個傢伙，我要幹掉他。

But one better.

但有一個更好。

Number 24.

24號

I'll do him, but one better.

我會做他，但要做得更好。

He didn't quite get there, but he basically did.

他雖然沒有完全做到，但基本做到了。

He basically was the next Michael Jordan and and was loved by a generation the way Jordan's generation loved him on the court.

他基本上是下一個邁克爾-喬丹，並且被一代人所喜愛，就像喬丹那一代人在球場上喜愛他一樣。

And so I understand Kyrie sentiment.

所以我理解凱里的心情。

Well, I'm gonna say this, Okay?

好吧，我要說的是，好嗎？

The logo.

標誌。

The NBA logo is a simple okay.

NBA的標誌是一個簡單的還好。

It's a damn representation.

這是一個該死的代表。

Kobe Bryant breathe, ate and slept the game of basketball.

科比-布萊恩特在籃球比賽中呼吸、吃飯、睡覺。

It's no better representation than the Kobe Bryant logo Mamba mentality.

最能代表科比布萊恩特標誌曼巴心態的莫過於此。

Think about it.

仔細想想吧

Having that logo on these players Jersey socks every night is a reminder of what they have to go out there and do every single night and leave it on the court because tomorrow is not promised.

每天晚上在這些球員球衣襪子上印上這個標誌，就是提醒他們每天晚上要去做什麼，並把它留在球場上，因為明天是不答應的。

Kobe Bryant was was an icon.

科比-布萊恩特是是一個偶像。

Kobe Bryant set the tone.

科比-布萊恩特定下了基調。

Kobe Bryant opened the doors for so many others.

科比-布萊恩特為很多人打開了大門。

He was a mentor, and his life after basketball was starting to be better than probably his career on the court.

他是一個導師，他的籃球之後的生活開始比他在球場上的生涯可能更好。

And that's saying a lot.

這就說明了很多問題。

No former, no current player would object to Kobe Bryant being the logo included Michael Jordan.

前任、現任球員都不會反對科比-布萊恩特成為包括邁克爾-喬丹在內的標誌。

Michael Jordan spoke at Kobe Bryant's funeral, and he said When Kobe died, a piece of me died as well, right?

邁克爾-喬丹在科比-布萊恩特的葬禮上發表了講話，他說當科比死後，我的一部分也死了，對嗎？

So what I'm saying is I would carry on this.

所以我的意思是，我會繼續這樣做。

Let's honor this man.

讓我們向這個人致敬。

He deserved it.

他活該。

What is but Kobe as the logo?

除了科比作為標誌，還有什麼？

And no one would have no complaints whatsoever.

也不會有人有任何怨言。

Mamba mentality?

曼巴心態？

Well, let me be very clear.

好吧，讓我說得很清楚。

I'm not trying to imply that anybody would have a complaint.

我並不是想暗示任何人都會有抱怨。

Not not anybody on this set right now.

現在這套房子裡沒有人。

Certainly no one in the NBA community would complain if the NBA elected to go that route.

當然，如果NBA選擇走這條路，NBA界沒有人會抱怨。

So that's not the subject at hand, because none of us would sit up there and and summarily dismissed or frown upon Kobe being the logo.

所以，這不是當前的主題，因為我們沒有人會坐在那裡，並總結性地否定或皺眉科比是標誌。

But when you think about what MJ has meant to the sport spanning decades, and that the N B A ultimately became what it became because a magic bird and ultimately, MJ.

但當你想到MJ對這項運動跨越幾十年的意義，以及N B A最終因為一隻魔力鳥而成為了什麼，最終，MJ。

Now we can't dismiss Bill Russell and Kareem Abdul Jabbar and their contributions to the game.

現在我們不能否定比爾-拉塞爾和卡里姆-阿卜杜勒-賈巴爾以及他們對比賽的貢獻。

We can never forget that rules will change crying for crying out loud because of Wilt Chamberlain.

我們永遠不能忘記，規則會因為威爾特-張伯倫而改變哭鬧。

And we understand that.

我們也明白這一點。

And we respect Elgin Baylor and we respect to Jerry Westerns of the World to Oscar Robinson.

我們尊重埃爾金-貝勒，我們尊重傑瑞-西部世界，尊重奧斯卡-羅賓遜。

There's a lot of great iconic figures that have come associated with the game of basketball.

有很多偉大的標誌性人物，都與籃球運動有關。

But in terms of making the NBA the global brand that it is, Kobe would have never been Kobe, meaning the global iconic brand that he is, if it wasn't for what Magic and Bird initiated and M.

但從讓NBA成為全球品牌的角度來說，如果不是魔術師和伯德發起和M，科比永遠不會成為科比，也就是他的全球標誌性品牌。

J ultimately took to another level.

J最終又上了一個臺階。

So I agree where you're coming from, K P.

所以我同意你的觀點，K P.

And I understand that you're not.

而我明白你不是。

I'm not trying to say that you're wrong by any stretch of the imagination, and you're absolutely right.

我並不是想說你的想法是錯的，你說的完全正確。

Michael Jordan would have no problem whatsoever because, like Jerry West, he's never asked to be the silhouette or anything like that.

邁克爾-喬丹不會有任何問題，因為和傑裡-韋斯特一樣，他從來沒有被要求成為剪影之類的東西。

And he certainly wouldn't have any problem with Kobe being honored in such a way.

而他當然不會對科比以這樣的方式獲得榮譽有任何異議。

I'm just saying when we look at their contributions to the game of basketball is phenomenally great, as Kobe Bryant was.

我只是說當我們看他們對籃球運動的貢獻是驚人的偉大，就像科比-布萊恩特一樣。

He wasn't MJ, and that's the difference.

他不是MJ，這就是區別。

And that's why I say I would go with MJ is the silhouette and listen, I'm not I'm not disagreeing with you.

而這也是為什麼我說我會選擇MJ是剪影，聽著，我不是我不同意你的觀點。

Like I always said before MJ got to the league, it was the circus and I mean that in a good way.

就像我在MJ進入聯盟之前一直說的那樣，這是馬戲團，我的意思是，這是一個好的方式。

Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan came and it became Disney Land and Disney World.

魔術師約翰遜、伊西婭-托馬斯、比爾-拉塞爾、拉里-伯德、邁克爾-喬丹來了，這裡就成了迪士尼樂園和迪士尼世界。

The magical, rising things to that nature.

神奇的，上升的東西到這個性質。

Thanks for watching ESPN on YouTube for live streaming sports and premium content.

感謝您在YouTube上觀看ESPN的體育直播和優質內容。

Subscribe to ESPN, plus.

訂閱ESPN，加。