It's meant that we've actually not had to let anyone go it all.

這意味著，我們其實沒有讓任何人去做這一切。

It's gonna be a while before we actually turn to normal business.

在我們真正開始正常工作之前，還需要一段時間。

The sharp end of a distressed economy presenting dilemmas for a chance that are facing whether he likes it or not in two directions in his budget next week, Rishi Soon Act will continue along the current path by extending support unprecedented in modern piece time for the economy, which shrank by 9.9% last year.

困境經濟的尖銳端呈現出困境的機會，無論他是否喜歡，在下週的預算案中，他都面臨著兩個方向，日順法將繼續沿著當前的道路，為去年萎縮了9.9%的經濟提供現代件時間內前所未有的支持。

A helping hand that will last at least until locked down, ends in mid summer.

一場幫扶，至少要持續到鎖定，夏中結束。

But the chancellor will signal tentative moves in a different direction as he sets out a path to bring down the deficit.

但大法官在制定降低赤字的路徑時，會發出不同方向的試探性舉措。

Tax rises could be on the way with corporation tax.

公司稅可能要加稅了。

Top of the list mixed messages for businesses trying to chart a way through the pandemic.

對於試圖在疫情中摸索出一條路的企業來說，名單上的資訊喜憂參半。

We don't feel certain we don't know what's going to happen in the future.

我們覺得不確定，我們不知道未來會發生什麼。

We don't know where are you, where we'll be in six weeks time, how much work we've got if you increase corporation tax if we were so lucky is to make a profit we couldn't then, um, improve the business on May help the business grow.

我們不知道你在哪裡，我們會在六個星期的時間，我們有多少工作，如果你增加公司稅，如果我們是如此幸運的是賺取利潤，我們不能然後，嗯，改善業務在五月幫助業務增長。

That would be a disaster for us.

這對我們來說是一場災難。

We need to reinvest in the business, and we need the government to help us.

我們需要對企業進行再投資，我們需要政府幫助我們。

A busy on covitz Secure garment factory floor, which has weathered the past year even if the pandemic eases over the summer, there's a clear message from this fashion business to Richie Soon AC go easy on balancing the books, stark warnings to a fiscally conservative chancellor who never imagined that he would be presiding over such extraordinary levels off state support.

一個繁忙的在covitz安全服裝廠的地板上，它已經度過了過去的一年，即使流行病在夏季緩解，有一個明確的資訊從這個時尚企業到Richie Soon AC去輕鬆平衡賬目，鮮明的警告一個財政保守的大法官誰從來沒有想過他將主持這樣的非凡水準關閉國家支持。

He accepted the need for that, but on the basis that it would be time limited.

他接受這種需要，但前提是這種需要是有時間限制的。

The record levels of borrowing, which have seen the UK rack up wartime levels of debt as the chancellor spends nearly £300 billion in propping up the economy, are keeping Treasury officials awake at night.

大臣花費近3000億英鎊支撐經濟，創紀錄的借貸水準讓英國積累了戰時水準的債務，這讓財政部官員夜不能寐。

But low interest rates allow a cautious approach.

但低利率允許採取謹慎的做法。

We are gonna be living with much higher debt for a long period.

我們將長期生活在更高的債務中。

That's easy at the moment because interest rates a solo, actually spending less on their interest than ever before.

目前很容易，因為利息率一個人，其實他們的利息支出比以前少了。

But that doesn't mean that the debt in the long run might not be a worry.

但這並不意味著長期來看，債務可能不愁。

We don't know if interest rates are always going to be that low on.

我們不知道利率是否會一直這麼低，在。

We've got lots of pressures coming down the road.

我們有很多的壓力來的道路。

Aging population more and more spending on health, social care, all those sorts of things.

老齡化的人口越來越多，醫療、社會關懷等方面的支出也越來越多。

So absolutely we shouldn't be raising taxes at the moment.

所以目前絕對不應該加稅。

The best way of getting the debt down is for the economy to grow fast.

要想把債務降下來，最好的辦法就是讓經濟快速發展。

But at some point it would be astonishing, given Theoden inal pressures that we're facing on public spending if we don't have some more tax at some point, Rishi Soon Act faces an unlikely alliance warning of the dangers of tax rises.

但在某些時候，鑑於我們在公共支出上面臨的Theoden inal壓力，如果我們在某些時候沒有更多的稅收，這將是一個驚人的，Rishi Soon Act面臨一個不太可能的聯盟，警告加稅的危險。

Today we do face very different circumstances piling, say, tax increases on top of that before you even opened up, the economy wouldn't make any sense of tools in the blue corner.

今天我們確實面臨著很不一樣的環境堆集，比方說，在你還沒有開放之前，加稅，經濟就沒有任何意義的工具，在藍色的角落裡。

Ah, former conservative prime minister speaks out if I want that on in the red corner.

啊，前保守派總理髮言，如果我想在紅角上。

A labor leader arguing against possible Tory tax rises now is not the time for tax rises for families for businesses.

一位工黨領袖反對保守黨可能的加稅，現在不是為家庭為企業加稅的時候。

Final touches after elaborate preparations on a finished product, ready for what is a very uncertain market.

在精心準備後，對成品進行最後的潤色，為一個非常不確定的市場做好準備。

Mhm, Nick what We're joining me now.

嗯，尼克，什麼 我們現在加入我的行列。

David Gorka, Conservative Treasury Ministry, from 2010 to 2017 on Russian are a Ali Labor MP and member of the Treasury Select Committee.

David Gorka，保守黨財政部，從2010年到2017年對俄羅斯是阿里工黨議員和財政部特別委員會成員。

Good evening to both of you.

你們兩個晚上好。

First of all, David got Would it be a mistake for the chancellor to raise corporation tax?

首先，大衛得到了大法官提高公司稅是個錯誤嗎？

Yes, I think it would be, I think vessel.

是的，我想應該是，我想是容器。

There is a timing issue, and I I agree with those who said we don't need to rush into tax increases, But I do think in the longer run we will need to raise Maurin tax.

這裡面有一個時間問題，我同意那些說我們不需要急於加稅的人的觀點，但我認為從長遠來看，我們確實需要提高莫林稅。

The problem is that corporation tax is economically one of the more damaging ways in which we could do so.

問題是，從經濟上講，公司稅是我們可以採取的一種破壞性較大的方式。

In the end, of course, allow taxes are paid by people.

當然，最後，允許納稅的是人。

Whatever the political convenience of going with corporation tax, it is a tax essentially on business investment on when business investment could be very mobile, it could go where it once we have to compete for it, and we have to be competitive on that front on the consequences in the long term is that we won't get the business investment that we would otherwise do that won't drive up productivity and we won't be as prosperous countries we would be.

無論公司稅在政治上有什麼便利，它基本上是對商業投資徵稅，當商業投資可以非常流動，它可以去哪裡，一旦我們必須競爭它，我們必須在這方面有競爭力，從長遠來看，後果是我們不會得到商業投資，否則我們會做，不會推動生產力的提高，我們不會像繁榮的國家，我們會。

So I think taxes will have todo where they Sorry David got you say it's damaging.

所以我認為稅收將不得不做的地方，他們 對不起，大衛得到了你說，這是有害的。

But the fact is is quite an easy hit in terms of a single percentage point.

但事實上是相當容易擊中一個百分點。

Raises £3.3 billion.

籌集33億英鎊。

Well, you're right.

嗯，你是對的。

There is a political case for going with corporation tax.

採用公司稅是有政治依據的。

It doesn't mean, however, that that's there's an economic case on.

但是，這並不意味著，這就是有經濟上的理由。

I can see why the chancellor might be tempted by it.

我知道為什麼宰相可能會受到它的誘惑。

But if we're looking at the long term prosperity of this country, if we want to put the economics ahead of the politics, I think you'd stay clear of corporation tax.

但如果我們著眼於這個國家的長期繁榮 如果我們想把經濟放在政治之上 我想你會遠離公司稅。

There are other taxes that would be less damaging.

還有其他稅種的危害性會小一些。

Thio economic growth.

亥經濟增長。

Thio.

Thio.

That's why.

這就是為什麼。

Because But you know all about cutting public services, there's nothing there.

因為... ...但你知道所有關於削減公共服務的事，那裡什麼都沒有。

Is that a cut?

這算不算是切磋？

I, to be honest, I don't think there there is very much.

我，說實話，我不認為有 有非常多。

Of course, you've got to keep you know you've got to get value for money for how you spend your, uh, expenditure.

當然，你必須保持... ...你知道你必須得到物有所值 你如何花你的，呃，支出。

But there are substantial pressures on public spending in the years ahead, so I I do think that tax is gonna have to bear the burden here.

但在未來幾年，公共開支有很大的壓力，所以我認為稅收將不得不在這裡承擔。

It's just a question if we're going to have a very high tax burden, which by historic standards we are.

這只是一個問題，如果我們要有一個非常高的稅收負擔，按照歷史標準，我們是。

We need to be intelligent as to how we raise that money and ensure that we don't raise that money in a way that limits are productive, capability original.

我們需要聰明的去籌集這些錢，確保我們籌集這些錢的方式不會限制是生產性的，能力原。

Really?

真的嗎？

You know, Keir Starmer is not.

你知道，基爾-斯塔默不是。

We understand in favor of raising corporation tax.

我們理解支持提高公司稅。

It will be interesting that labor outflank the Tories on the right and joins up with David Davis and Iain Duncan Smith on this Look, it's not about whether who you join forces with.

這將是有趣的，工黨在右翼超越保守黨，並與大衛-戴維斯和伊恩-鄧肯-史密斯聯合起來看，這不是關於你是否與誰聯合的問題。

It's about what's right for the country, and we're not out of the woods yet.

這關係到國家的利益，我們還沒有走出困境。

We haven't even come out of lock down.

我們甚至還沒有走出封鎖。

And if if businesses a taxed prematurely, which this would be, this would be a premature tax increase on businesses that are employing people.

如果企業過早地被徵稅，這將是對僱傭人員的企業過早地加稅。

We need them to thrive and survive on.

我們需要它們賴以生存和發展。

We need them to employ more people so we can grow our way out of this crisis as much as possible Now.

我們需要他們僱傭更多的人，這樣我們就能儘可能地成長，擺脫危機。

That's not to say that we shouldn't have a conversation about taxation.

這並不是說我們不應該討論稅收問題。

We do need to have an honest conversation with the British people about how we rebuild our country after the biggest crisis since the Second World War.

我們確實需要與英國人民進行坦誠的對話，討論如何在第二次世界大戰以來最大的危機之後重建我們的國家。

But to do that now to introduce taxes on businesses now and choke off growth and create more potentially much more unemployment, especially when people go off the furlough program when certain sectors are really struggling hospitality, tourism and many other sectors that would be deeply, deeply damaging for our country.

但如果現在就對企業開徵稅收，扼殺增長，製造更多潛在的更多的失業，特別是當人們在某些行業真正掙扎的時候，酒店業、旅遊業和許多其他行業的休假計劃，這將對我們的國家造成深深的、深深的傷害。

And I think that the politics David's right about the politics dominating over the economics and national interest here, the chance has got his eye on the election cycle rather than what's right for the country and what's right for businesses and employers, employees.

我認為政治大衛說的對，政治在經濟和國家利益上占主導地位，機會讓他的眼睛盯著選舉週期，而不是什麼對國家有利，什麼對企業、僱主和僱員有利。

Stella Creasy, As you know, a big supporter of Keir Starmer says It's right that we look at corporation tax and actually indeed capital gains tax and ask how and when were those with the broadest shoulders can contribute a bit more of the task of rebuilding our nation.

斯特拉-克雷塞，如你所知，基爾-斯塔默的一個重要支持者說，我們應該看看公司稅和實際上的資本利得稅，並詢問如何以及何時那些最寬闊的肩膀可以為重建我們國家的任務做出更多的貢獻。

You know what increase in corporation tax would labor?

你知道增加公司稅會勞動什麼嗎？

Where are with the not well look, the question is when you tax if you if you look at the amount of we've got to pay back 400 billion by the end of this year.

哪裡跟不好好看，問題是你稅的時候如果你如果看我們今年年底要還4000億的金額。

After the Second World War, it took a very long time to pay off the costs incurred during the war.

第二次世界大戰後，花了很長時間才還清戰爭期間的費用。

We need to think about a very comprehensive way in which we rebuild our society, our economy, our national health service, with the aging population with intergenerational inequality, so still is absolutely right about making sure that those with the broadest shoulders pay the mostest and contribute the most.

我們需要考慮一個非常全面的方式，我們重建我們的社會，我們的經濟，我們的國家衛生服務，隨著人口老齡化與代際不平等，所以還是要確保那些最寬肩膀的人付出最多，貢獻最大，這是絕對正確的。

As we come out of this crisis, The question is, when should we do that?

當我們走出這場危機的時候，問題是，我們應該在什麼時候做？

And I don't think it should happen for at least another couple of years.

而且我認為至少在未來幾年內不應該發生。

In fact, and most of the evidence most of the experts and and also the IMF and the C.

事實上，和大多數證據大多數專家和也國際貨幣基金組織和C。

D and other countries that many other countries looking at this and very few people are saying start taxing businesses right now.

D和其他國家，很多其他國家都在研究這個問題，很少有人說現在就開始對企業徵稅。

Start increasing.

開始增加。

So David got the alternative?

所以，大衛得到了選擇？

Have not corporation tax.

沒有公司稅。

Do you think Boris Johnson should, uh, cut off the cast iron guarantee he made in the Tory manifesto in 2019?

你認為鮑里斯-約翰遜應該，呃，切斷他在2019年保守黨宣言中的鑄鐵保證嗎？

We will not raise the rate of income tax.

我們不會提高所得稅的稅率。

We will not raise V A T or national insurance should that still stand.

如果這種情況仍然存在，我們將不會提高V A T或國家保險。

I don't think each good I do anything particularly sensible pledged to make it the time, but even accepting that it was made in good faith at that point.

我不認為我做的每一件好事都是特別理智的承諾，但即使是接受，當時也是誠心誠意的。

The circumstances are so changed, the challenges that we face in terms of the public finances are that much more difficult.

環境發生了這麼大的變化，我們在公共財政方面所面臨的挑戰就更加困難了。

I think the government would be entitled to say that this is what we said at the time.

我想政府有權說，這是我們當時說的。

We intended to one of that, but circumstances have changed and you look at those three taxes that you've mentioned Kirsty.

我們打算其中之一，但情況發生了變化，你看看你提到的那三個稅種，Kirsty。

They constitute 64% of all government revenue.

它們佔政府總收入的64%。

And if the government is serious about trying to find substantial sums in taxation in due course, not for a year or two, but in due course to to close off the ability to do very much with those three taxes makes the task that much more difficult on could result in us, you know, increasing taxes in a way which is sub optimal and constrains our ability to attract business investment in the years ahead.

如果政府真的想在適當的時候找到大量的稅收，不是一年或兩年，而是在適當的時候，關閉這三個稅種的能力，使任務更加困難，可能會導致我們，你知道，增加稅收的方式是次優的，並限制了我們的能力，以吸引商業投資在未來幾年。

Russian era Ali, you've talked about the pandemic, offering us a chance to make a radical reset Muchas beverage after the Second World war.

俄羅斯時代的阿里，你說過大流行病，為我們提供了一個機會，讓我們在第二次世界大戰後徹底重啟Muchas飲料。

You're imposing an increase on business taxation at the moment.

你此刻對營業稅實行加徵。

So do you also support a freeze on personal allowances?

那麼你也支持凍結個人津貼嗎？

Look what I What I'm saying is that it's right now.

你看我 我想說的是，就在現在。

It would be the wrong move to start start taxing people or businesses.

如果開始對人或企業開始徵稅，那是錯誤的做法。

We need to stimulate our economy.

我們需要刺激經濟。

We need to grow our economy for the foreseeable future.

在可預見的未來，我們需要發展經濟。

And the other issue is we still don't know whether these new variants could undermine the vaccination effort and could lead Thio retrenchment in terms of return, returning to some further restrictions even if we ease out off these restrictions now.

而另一個問題是，我們仍然不知道這些新的變種是否會破壞疫苗接種工作，並可能導致Thio縮減在返回，返回到一些進一步的限制，即使我們放鬆了這些限制現在。

So there are big unknown still for our economy and our country on.

所以，我們的經濟和國家在上還是有很大的未知數。

That's why what I would say is that the government actually needs to use this budget to support businesses, support people back into work next week.

所以我想說的是，政府其實需要用這個預算來支持企業，支持人們下週重返工作崗位。

Instead off looking at taxes and freezing personal allowances.

而不是看稅和凍結個人津貼。

We need to support people we need to support people at the end of what has been the most appalling set of circumstances.

我們需要支持人們，我們需要支持人們在這一系列最駭人聽聞的情況下結束。

Over 220,000 people have died on our NHS has been on its knees thanks to in part because of the austerity of the last, largely because of the austerity of the last decade.

超過22萬人已經死了我們的NHS已經在其膝蓋上感謝部分因為過去的緊縮，主要是因為過去十年的緊縮。

The government needs to learn the lessons of the last decade in terms of leave.

政府需要吸取過去十年在休假方面的教訓。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝你。

Thank you.

謝謝你了