Name: 工黨。基爾-斯塔默闡述了他對經濟的長期願景--BBC新聞之夜。 (Labour Party: Keir Starmer sets out his long-term vision for the economy - BBC Newsnight)
Uploaded: 2021-02-18T18:36:22.000Z
Duration: 11 min 8 s

the truism is that it's the worst job in politics.

不言而喻的是，這是政治中最糟糕的工作。

It's a truism for a reason in office but not in charge.

當官不當家，當家不當家，這是一個道理。

The leader of the opposition is the permanent understudy of British public life, on most of them fail.

反對派領袖是英國公共生活中永遠的替身，對大多數人來說都是失敗的。

But since Thomas election, he has resurrected labor's cadaverous opinion poll ratings.

但自從托馬斯當選後，他復活了勞工的臥薪嚐膽民調評級。

Still, some worry a ceiling appears to have been reached or worse.

不過，有些人還是擔心似乎已經達到了一個上限，甚至更糟。

Labor's ratings have sharply increased in Starmer became leader, but the rise has stalled.

工黨的收視率在斯塔默成為領導人後急劇上升，但上升的步伐已經停滯。

Way see a similar pattern with starters personal ratings, his negative starting to climb quite sharply over the last few months on Boris Johnson has once again overtaken Starmer on the preferred prime minister stakes.

方式看到一個類似的模式與開始者個人評級，他的負面開始攀升相當急劇在過去幾個月對鮑里斯-約翰遜已經再次超過斯塔默在首選總理樁。

But many leaders of the opposition never get into positive territory at all or only fleetingly.

但許多反對派領導人根本就沒有進入正面領域，或者只是曇花一現。

Ed Miliband managed a few months in positive territory.

埃德-米利班德管理了幾個月的積極領域。

Even Cameron's positive ratings disappeared after a year.

甚至卡梅倫的正面評價在一年後也消失了。

Labor old hands say then that this is nothing to worry about for Kier Starmer in a year to not just have got us back on equal terms in the polls, we were 26 points behind, by the way, but also is the first leader.

工黨的老手們說，那麼這對於基爾-斯塔默來說，這沒什麼好擔心的，在一年的時間裡，不僅讓我們在民調中回到了平等的地位，順便說一下，我們落後了26個百分點，但也是第一任領導人。

You've got a personal rating higher than the than the current prime minister, who has been all too often over the last 10 years of living in the Conservative Party.

你的個人評價比現任首相高，他在過去10年裡經常生活在保守黨內。

That is in a terrific achievement in his first year.

這是在他第一年取得的了不起的成就。

And yet not only the Tories just about still ahead, but they're now pulling a bit further ahead on geekiest armors.

然而不僅保守黨只是還在領先，而且他們現在在最怪異的盔甲上又拉開了一點距離。

Yeah, I don't think that should concern here in the sense that in the middle of a pandemic, I think it's very difficult for governments to actually go down in the polls, given that most people in Britain anyway, give them the benefit of the doubt on.

是的，我不認為這應該在這裡關注的意義，在流行病的中間，我認為這是非常困難的政府實際上去了民意調查，鑑於大多數人在英國反正，給他們的利益懷疑上。

Of course, Starmer hasn't been able to campaign, hasn't been able to make a conference speech, sometimes unable to leave his own home.

當然，斯達默一直不能參加競選，不能發表會議演講，有時不能離開自己的家。

And he's had to navigate a covert politics.

而他不得不駕馭一個隱祕的政治。

Where to be seen to commit Politics may be a sin, but overall I welcome this statement.

在哪裡被人看到犯政治可能是一種罪過，但總體上我歡迎這種說法。

I believe the government is trying to do the right thing.

我相信政府是想做正確的事情。

But there are those who whisper that there's not enough politics within the man to begin with, that he hasn't the bite of a successful predecessors, that his critique of the Johnson government has been one anchored incompetence, just to the point that through the vaccine program, the government has shown it has it.

但也有人竊竊私語，說這個人一開始就沒有足夠的政治內涵，他沒有成功的前輩的咬合力，他對約翰遜政府的批判一直是錨定的無能，只是通過疫苗計劃，政府已經顯示出了它的能力。

One of the critiques of Keir Starmer this year has been despite the fact that he is clearly a very competent figure, someone who many people can imagine being prime minister.

今年對基爾-斯塔默的責備之一是，儘管他顯然是一個非常有能力的人物，許多人可以想象他是總理。

Perhaps he's a bit too lawyerly, a little bit too cautious.

也許他有點過於律師，有點過於謹慎。

The public square on the so called court of public opinion are actually very different from a a court room.

所謂輿論場上的公堂，其實和法庭上的公堂有很大區別。

Um, even PM cues, Um, where people say here has been a very able performer.

嗯，即使是PM提示，嗯，在這裡人們說這裡已經是一個非常能幹的表現。

Prime minister's questions is not the same as courtroom advocacy, but in a sense, those, um, those critiques and those conversations are our Westminster bubble stuff.

首相的問題和法庭上的辯護是不一樣的，但是在某種意義上，那些，嗯，那些責備和那些對話是我們威斯敏斯特保麗龍的東西。

What I'm looking for is not really that what I'm looking for is the offering.

我所尋找的其實並不是說我所尋找的是祭品。

What I'm looking for is the great big hearted, optimistic offering Thio, the British people that says it was labor, Um, that did it after World War Two.

我所要找的是偉大的大心臟，樂觀的獻Thio，英國人民說是勞工，嗯，二戰後做到了。

It was labor that built the welfare state, and thats the offer to which Starmer will turn tomorrow that he will, we're told, start to map out the intellectual basis off a storm.

是勞動者建立了福利國家，這就是斯塔默明天將轉向的提議，我們被告知，他將開始在風暴中繪製智力基礎。

A labor governments off what social democracy will look like in the 20 twenties that he will say that there could be no return to business as usual or the failed conservative ideology of the past.

一個勞工政府關閉社會民主將是什麼樣子在20 20年代，他將說，可能沒有返回到業務照常或過去的失敗的保守意識形態。

Now you may think this sounds rather run.

現在你可能會覺得這聽起來比較跑。

Can labor credibly talk of a failed conservative ideology when they have So that is the conservatives, transformed before our eyes moved away from the free market?

勞工能可信地談論一個失敗的保守主義意識形態，當他們有 所以這就是保守派，在我們眼前轉變遠離自由市場？

Become, in many cases, born again status?

成為，在很多情況下，重生的狀態？

Well, talk to those around Starmer, and they think that in the long term that isn't going toe happen, that the Conservatives haven't bought into a fundamentally new version off political economy that in the medium term at least, Rishi Soon AC and others will start to argue for spending cuts.

好吧，跟斯塔默身邊的人談一談，他們認為，從長遠來看，這種情況不會發生，保守黨還沒有接受一個根本性的新的政治經濟版本，至少在中期內，日日順AC和其他人將開始主張削減開支。

The deficit reduction that will become a key plank once again of our politics on that is the opening that labor, starting tomorrow could start to prise open on the economic crisis will have a much longer tail, I suspect, than the public health crisis that code that code has brought about.

削減赤字，將再次成為我們政治上的一個關鍵板塊，這是勞工，從明天開始就可以開始刺開經濟危機的開端，我猜測，將有一個更長的尾巴，比代碼那個代碼帶來的公共衛生危機。

But I think this is this is a good time to start talking about priorities with a long tail of inequality and security with the end of the furlough system, which was gonna cause all sorts of directions in our economy with the regional inequalities that postcode life will reveal.

但我認為這是這是一個很好的時機，開始討論優先事項與長尾的不平等和安全與休假制度的結束，這是會導致我們的經濟與區域不平等的各種方向，郵政編碼生活將揭示。

There's so much that's going to be the A free area for reasonable disagreement between the opposition Onda conservative government.

有這麼多的東西，將是A反對派翁達保守派政府之間合理分歧的自由區域。

Many seem to think that Keir Starmer looks and sounds the part of a prime minister.

許多人似乎認為基爾-斯塔默看起來和聽起來都像一個總理的角色。

But only two leaders of the opposition have made that leap since 1994.

但自1994年以來，只有兩位反對派領導人實現了這一飛躍。

It isn't yet clear that he plays that part nearly as well.

目前還不清楚他扮演的那個角色是否差不多。

Lewis Goodall win In a moment, I'll be joined by James Snyder, co founder of Momentum and former director of strategic communications with Jeremy Corbyn and an eternally the former Labor MP for Red Car.

劉易斯-古道爾的勝利一會兒，我會由詹姆斯-斯奈德加入，他是Momentum的聯合創始人，也是傑里米-科爾賓的前戰略通信總監，也是紅車的前工黨議員的永恆。

But first, I'm joined by Jonathan Reynolds, the Shadow Work and Pensions secretary.

但首先，我和喬納森-雷諾茲一起，影子工作和養老金祕書。

Good evening, Jonathan medals, First of all, giving the various crises in the pandemic from PPE to schools to care, home to track and trace, and even to Dominic Cummings.

晚上好，喬納森獎牌，首先，給大流行中的各種危機，從PPE到學校到護理，家庭到跟蹤和跟蹤，甚至到多米尼克-卡明斯。

Given all that, why is it that the Conservatives are not only ahead in the polls but pulling further ahead look, if you look at where the Labor Party is today, based on where we were a year ago, I think actually the writ or progress has been fantastic, and I certainly feel much more comfortable about where we are today.

既然如此，為什麼保守黨不僅在民調中領先，而且還在進一步拉開差距看，如果你看看工黨今天的情況，基於我們一年前的情況，我認為其實寫或進步已經非常棒，我當然對我們今天的情況感到更舒服。

If you look at governments around the world, incumbent governments have got a boost.

如果你看看世界各地的政府，現任政府都得到了提升。

As you see the international crisis, people rally around the government, they want the government to succeed, and we want the government's Corbett strategy to succeed.

當你看到國際危機時，人們聚集在政府周圍，他們希望政府成功，我們希望政府的科貝特戰略成功。

Nobody wants to continue the disruption to people's lives.

沒有人願意繼續擾亂人們的生活。

The loss that we have all felt, so that is natural.

失落的感覺，我們都有過，所以那是自然的。

If you look at the poll, that really does count, which is, does the public see?

如果你看民調，那真的是數一數二，也就是公眾看到了嗎？

Do they see him as a potential prime minister?

I'm not some good people who've been the leader for their party.

我不是一些好人，他們為自己的黨做過上司。

You haven't had Paul rate things like that.

你還沒有讓保羅評價過這樣的事情。

So on that, Yes, I think that's a good position for us to be in a year on.

所以在這一點上，是的，我認為這對我們來說是一個很好的位置，一年後。

And you acknowledge that the government's done a very good job in the vaccine because as I say, it's not just about the government.

你也承認政府在疫苗方面做得很好，因為我說過，這不僅僅是政府的問題。

Being ahead in the polls is about pulling the head, just pulling ahead, despite the fact that people know who could cure, stammers and think that he might be a trustworthy leader.

在民調中領先，就是為了拉人頭，就是為了拉人頭，儘管人們知道誰能治好，吞吞吐吐，認為他可能是一個值得信賴的上司。

Well, we've been ahead in the polls and lost big elections.

我們在民調中一直領先，卻輸掉了大選。

I don't think frankly, people should look too much of where things are right now, except for the fact that we know they've noticed we've got a new leader on.

我覺得坦率地說，大家不要太看重現在的情況，除了我們知道他們已經注意到我們已經有了一個新的上司上。

They like him quite a lot in terms of your question about the handling off the pandemic.

他們很喜歡他，就你提出的關於疫情處理的問題。

Now, if you look at where this country has got to tragically, with the highest death toll in Europe and the biggest recession of any major economy, what Kira is going to say tomorrow is yes.

現在，如果你看看這個國家已經到了悲劇性的地步，死亡人數在歐洲是最高的，而且是任何主要經濟體中最大的衰退，基拉明天要說的是：是的。

That is about decisions the government have made in the pandemic.

這就是關於政府在這場大流行中做出的決定。

But it's also about the country we had going into this crisis, the inequality, the poverty, insecurity in the workplace on That is why, when we're talking now about what should come after the pandemic here is going to say we cannot go back to business as usual deliver something better and only labor could do that, he says.

但這也是關於我們進入這場危機的國家，不平等，貧困，工作場所的不安全感上這就是為什麼，當我們現在談論的應該是什麼後，這裡的大流行是會說我們不能回到業務照常提供更好的東西，只有勞動可以做到這一點，他說。

Under my leadership, labor's priority will also be financial responsibility.

在我的上司下，勞工的首要任務也將是經濟責任。

So what is more important, spending what it takes to appear Britain or reducing the massive deficit?

那麼，什麼是更重要的，是花多少錢出現英國，還是減少鉅額赤字？

It's about spending on the things that matter.

就是要把錢花在重要的事情上。

We've seen this government spend very large means that frankly haven't worked like tests and trace what here is going to say tomorrow, the priorities that we would have to make that difference.

我們已經看到這個政府花了非常大的手段，坦率地說還沒有像測試和跟蹤這裡明天要說的工作，我們將不得不使這種差異的優先事項。

But there could be no return to austerity.

People always forget in these type of discussions.

在這種討論中，人們總是忘記。

It's not just about spending cuts on tax rises to get a grip of the deficit.

要想控制赤字，不僅僅是減支增稅。

It's about shrinking that debt as a proportion of GDP, shrinking it as a proportion of the economy, and that requires growth.

就是要把這個債務佔GDP的比例縮小，把它佔經濟的比例縮小，這就需要增長。

And I would just say we cannot think that we'll get to where we need to be by ignoring rising levels of child poverty heading towards five million people, five million Children, sorry on that will take that will take spending and that will take spending.

我想說的是，我們不能認為我們會通過忽視不斷上升的兒童貧困水準來達到我們所需的目標，即500萬兒童，對不起，這將需要支出，這將需要支出。

And I wonder about the whole radicalism of that because what he says he's going to do, According to the speech tomorrow is going to reverse the planned cuts to Universal Credit, which will benefit six million families by £1000 a year.

我不知道整個激進主義，因為他說他要做的事情，根據明天的演講要扭轉計劃削減通用信貸，這將使600萬家庭每年受益1000英鎊。

That is only taking it back to pre austerity rates.

這只是把它帶回緊縮前的利率。

What, you're right to say that there has bean in Social Security, a very punitive set of settlements for many years.

什麼，你說的對，在社會保障中，多年來有豆，一套非常懲罰性的解決方法。

But that commitment on universal credit, which is obviously directly in my brief, yes, that is absolutely the right thing to do for British families.

但是，關於普遍信貸的承諾，顯然是直接在我的簡報中，是的，這對英國家庭來說絕對是正確的事情。

You've got to go back to the Great Depression to find the government that was willing to cook out of work support in a major recession.

你得回溯到大蕭條時期，才能找到願意在大蕭條中煮出工作支持的政府。

But that is also the right thing for the economy, because otherwise you'd be taking £6 billion worth of spending that would be spent in local shops on on local services out of the economy.

但這對經濟來說也是正確的，因為如果不這樣做，你就會把價值60億英鎊的支出從經濟中抽離出來，而這些支出本應花在在地商店的在地服務上。

That is a return to the original question, which is?

這就回到了最初的問題，那就是?

You'll spend what it takes to the to repair Britain the way you want to repair it, rather than being concerned about drawing away from the deficit about reducing weight.

你會用你想要的方式來修復英國，而不是關心從赤字中抽離減重。

You can't do the short do both in the short term.

Well, I say you can do both Kirsty, because if you look at where we've been for the last few years, if you look at the George Osborne plan on austerity on its plan to tackle the deficit, it didn't work.

我說你可以兩者兼得 因為如果你看看我們過去幾年的情況 如果你看看喬治-奧斯本的緊縮計劃 在解決赤字的計劃上，它沒有成功

And you can't find anyone now saying That's the right way forward.

而且你現在找不到任何人說這是正確的前進方向。

You can't find the time for the 100 or major publications who specialized in this area.

你找不到時間去看專門從事這方面工作的100本或主要出版品。

They all agree that isn't the right way forward.

他們都認為這不是正確的發展方向。

So let's surely learn the lessons off the past.

所以我們一定要吸取過去的教訓。

But the way forward to tackle both the national finances on the opportunity that people need in this country is to say that let's not go back to what we had going into.

但是，解決國家財政和人民在這個國家所需要的機會的方法是說，讓我們不要回到我們所進入的。