A nationwide civil disobedience campaign has been underway since the overthrow of on Santucci is government people taking to the streets and civil servants also being urged to strike.

自桑圖奇被推翻後，全國範圍內的公民抗命運動一直在進行，是政府民眾走上街頭，公務員也被敦促罷工。

They hope that the turnout today will be the largest so far.

他們希望今天的投票人數是迄今為止最多的一次。

That's just a day after on Sans Souci herself appeared in court via video link to face a further charge this time of breaking national disaster law.

這僅僅是一天之後，在桑蘇西本人通過視頻鏈接出庭，面對進一步的指控，這次是違反國家災害法。

Let's speak to our South East Asia correspondent Jonathan Head, who's been monitoring all this from the start.

讓我們來採訪一下我們的東南亞記者喬納森-海德，他從一開始就在監測這一切。

Jonathan, it does look, I mean, that the latest pictures we've seen are off really vast numbers gathering.

喬納森，它看起來，我的意思是， 最新的圖片，我們已經看到了關閉 真的大量的數字收集。

But we do hear of confrontations with police is well.

但我們確實聽說過與警察發生衝突是好的。

There have been some David, nothing too serious.

有一些大衛，沒有太嚴重的。

Yet in other places, the police have been somewhat baffled by the tactics of the protest movement as people have basically parked their cars to block roads, pulled their bonnets up on, declaimed that their cars have broken down.

然而在其他地方，警方對抗議運動的策略卻有些摸不著頭腦，因為人們基本上都是把車停在路上堵著，拉上引擎蓋，宣稱自己的車壞了。

It's called the broken down car movement.

這就是所謂的破車運動。

That's to block roads to try and stop people going to work and to stop the security forces from moving people in.

那就是封鎖道路，試圖阻止人們去上班，阻止安全部隊將人們遷入。

I've seen policeman arguing with people claiming that they can start their cars.

我見過警察與人爭論，聲稱自己可以發動汽車。

I mean, this is taking place in lots of different bits of Yangon itself, with very large numbers of people gathering right in the center of Yangon but in a least 18 to 20 other towns and cities to their big protests in nippy door, which is, of course, the military built capital, the stronghold of the current government on the heart of the civil service.

我的意思是，這發生在仰光本身的很多不同的地方，有非常多的人聚集在仰光的中心，但在其他至少18到20個城鎮和城市，他們的大抗議活動在nippy door，這是，當然，軍隊建立的資本，現任政府對公務員制度的核心的據點。

And this is all about trying toe stop government from functioning.

而這一切都是為了阻止政府的運作。

The civil disobedience movement has sort of evolved, and it's a lot more organized Now.

民眾不服從運動已經有了一定的發展，而且現在更有組織了。

You can see signs of that and the way that people are sort of sorting themselves out as they come into the city to try to stop people from going to work and to show that they won't go to work in the hope of making, in a way, making the country ungovernable, at least making public services come to a halt on.

你可以看到這樣的跡象，以及人們在進入城市時整理自己的方式，試圖阻止人們去工作，並表明他們不會去工作，希望在某種程度上，使國家無法治理，至少使公共服務停止在。

I think this big showdown today, which is a direct response to the news.

我想今天這場大決戰，是對新聞的直接反應。

That nonsense uchi was somewhat secretly on hastily put on trial yesterday.

那個胡說八道的宇智波斑昨天有些祕密地匆匆上了審判臺。

That's really sparked off a much bigger protest.

這真是引發了更大的抗議。

They want a big show of strength to show their feelings.

他們要大展拳腳，以示自己的感情。

The military has constantly claimed that the reason for its coup was that the outgoing government lost its legitimacy because of its failure to investigate fraud on what the protesters showing is, Look, we all voted, for instance, UCI in huge numbers last November on We're going to come out and support her now that she's facing these rather ridiculous charges.

軍方不斷聲稱，其政變的原因是即將離任的政府失去了合法性，因為它未能對抗議者所顯示的欺詐行為進行調查，你看，我們都投了票，例如，UCI去年11月在巨大的數字上我們要出來支持她，現在她面臨這些相當荒謬的指控。

Yeah, I mean, in terms of numbers, though, Jonathan, it feels like it's not just a momentum.

是的，我的意思是，在數字方面，雖然，喬納森，感覺這不僅僅是一個勢頭。

It's almost like a tipping point, isn't it?

這幾乎就像一個臨界點，不是嗎？

Which you wouldn't want to be a union not coming out in support of all the others?

哪個你不想當工會不出來支持所有的人？

Yeah, I think it will be.

是的，我想會的。

There'll be a lot of pressure on people not to go toe work, and that's been the argument.

人們會有很大的壓力，不要去做腳趾活，這也是一直以來的說法。

The military has tried to claim that the civil disobedience movement is being driven by intimidation.

軍方試圖聲稱，公民抗命運動是由恐嚇推動的。

I mean, that's not realistic.

我的意思是，這是不現實的。

There is strong pressure on people not to go toe work on.

有強大的壓力，人們不去趾高氣揚地工作在。

I have no doubt there is some intimidation.

我毫不懷疑有一些恐嚇。

But the groundswell of anger about this coup, this sense of injustice is really what's driving people.

但是，對這次政變的憤怒，這種不公正的感覺 是真正的驅動人們。

This is the 12th day they've done these protests.

這是他們做這些抗議活動的第12天了。

It affects people's livelihood.

影響民生。

People are willing to sacrifice a great deal, including almost the collapse of health services in places because it was doctors and medical workers who started this idea of non cooperation with the military regime.

人們願意犧牲很多，包括一些地方的醫療服務幾乎崩潰，因為是醫生和醫務工作者開始了這種不與軍方政權合作的想法。

Banking services have almost stopped functions that people are running out of cash.

銀行服務的功能幾乎已經停止，人們的現金已經用完。

People are really going to suffer economically because of this protest, and yet the numbers are still very, very big on.

人們真的會因為這種抗議活動而在經濟上受到影響，然而數字還是非常非常大的。

I think that's a real problem for the military government.

我想這對軍政府來說確實是個問題。

They've deployed a lot of soldiers, but you can't really try and corral protests when they don't have a central point of organization.

他們已經部署了很多阿兵哥， 但你不能真的嘗試和糾集抗議 當他們沒有一箇中心點的組織。

They're organized locally on when they break out in so many different places.

他們在當地組織上，當他們在這麼多不同的地方爆發。

There's no real strategy strategy from the at the moment from the government about how to contain this, that feared violent crackdown that everyone keeps in mind because it's what the military is done in the past is much, much harder to do when you've got cameras everywhere.

目前政府還沒有真正的戰略策略，關於如何遏制這種情況，那種擔心的暴力鎮壓，每個人都牢記在心，因為這就是過去軍方所做的事情，當你到處都有攝像頭的時候，就難辦多了。

All that all of this stuff being live streamed.

所有這一切的東西被直播。

They haven't dared to shut down the Internet completely during the day, on where it's so fragmented as well.

他們還不敢在白天完全關閉互聯網，就在哪裡也是如此碎片化。

It's a much more modern style of protest than we've seen in the past.

這是一種比我們過去看到的更現代的抗議風格。

Okay, Jonathan, thanks very much indeed.

好的，喬納森，真的非常感謝。

For that, the very latest there from Yangon in particular that James Rhoda Harbor is the head of the Myanmar team at the U.

對於這一點，那裡的最新情況，特別是來自仰光的詹姆斯-羅達-哈伯是美國大學緬甸團隊的負責人。

N.

N.

Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights in Bangkok.

人權事務高級專員辦事處駐曼谷辦事處；

I spoke to him a short while ago.

我剛才和他說過話。

In fact, we focused to start with on just what Jonathan was talking about the broken car protest using those stalled cars effectively to block roads.

事實上，我們一開始關注的正是喬納森所說的破車抗議，利用那些停滯的汽車有效地封鎖道路。

What did you think of that?

你覺得怎麼樣？

Well, I think that it's a quite ingenious.

嗯，我認為這是一個相當巧妙的。

I think that the variety of ways that such a large, massive number of people, particularly coming from the grassroots, uh, they're different tactics in in peacefully demonstrating and expressing their their opinion have been, uh, really admirable.

我認為，這樣一個龐大的，大量的人，特別是來自基層的，呃，他們在和平示威和表達他們的意見的不同策略的各種方式，呃，真的很令人欽佩。

Admirable is one word.

令人欽佩是一個字。

You must be anxious, presumably, that this cannot go on forever without the military taking a heavier hand.

你一定很著急，大概是這樣下去，軍方不出重手，就不能一直這樣下去。

Well, of course, you This military has a very long history of violent crackdowns and violent responses to public demonstration and thio quashing free expression.

嗯，當然，你這個軍方有一個非常長的歷史 暴力鎮壓和暴力迴應 公共示威和hio鎮壓自由表達。

So, yes, we're very deeply concerned about the way that things have been going in recent days.

所以，是的，我們對最近幾天的情況非常關注。

The increasing resort to the use of force even if non lethal force it's still unacceptable, unlawful to use force against peaceful protests on Yet, Uh, despite that, the protests persist and they persist in their peaceful nature.

越來越多地訴諸武力 即使是非致命性的力量 它仍然是不可接受的，非法的 使用武力對和平抗議 然而，呃，儘管如此，抗議持續 他們堅持在他們的和平性質。

Right on Sans Souci appeared via video link for in court on Tuesday.

右邊的Sans Souci週二通過視頻鏈接出現在法庭上。

I guess your concerns there are that this is going to be a very long period of incarceration, even if it's about the court proceedings going ahead.

我想你擔心的是，這將是一個非常漫長的監禁期，即使是關於法院程序的進行。

Well, of course, yes, we're We are very concerned and in some ways confused by the charges that have been, uh, leveled against the state councilor and the President.

當然，是的，我們對州議員和總統受到的指控非常關注，並在某些方面感到困惑。

Uh, I think that what we fear gets lost sometimes are the massive number of other people that have been detained during these last 2.5 weeks.

呃，我想我們擔心的是有時會丟失 大量的其他人在過去2. 5周內被拘留。

Uh, my team has at this point compiled a list of over 547 individuals that have been detained largely incommunicado on what that has meant is that they have no access to a lawyer.

呃，我的團隊已經在這一點上彙編了一份名單 超過547個人 已經被拘留 大致上隔離 這意味著什麼是他們沒有獲得律師。

In many cases, in almost all cases, uh, it's hard to know where they're being held.

在很多情況下，在幾乎所有的情況下，呃，很難知道他們被關在哪裡。

The fear is that these may cease being unlawful detentions and become enforced.

人們擔心的是，這些可能不再是非法拘留，而是強制執行。

Disappearances.

失蹤。

James, can I ask you the the what I might call the partial democratization of Myanmar?

詹姆斯，我可以問你，我可以稱之為緬甸的部分民主化嗎？

The the electoral success of on Santucci the embracing of this country by the international community brought with it, of course, a tacit understanding that the military still had a very strong hand within the running of the country.

桑圖奇的選舉成功 國際社會對這個國家的擁護，當然也帶來了一種默契，即軍方在國家管理中仍有很強的影響力。

Where when you look at where we are today on the way this has emerged, was it a mist ake to buy that line?

當你看到我們今天在哪裡出現這種情況時，買下這條線是一個錯誤的選擇嗎？

Well, it's always hard to know for certain you know how to how to handle an analysis like that.

好吧，總是很難確定你知道如何如何處理這樣的分析。

You know, looking backwards, you're you're always going to have 2020 hindsight.

你知道，向後看，你你總是要有2020年的後見之明。

I think one thing is clear, and that's that this current crisis is born of impunity.

我認為有一點是明確的，那就是目前的這場危機是由有罪不罰現象引起的。