Open democracy.

開放的民主；

Welcome to you both.

歡迎你們倆的到來。

Tripti.

Tripti.

Can I start by asking you Good evening?

我可以先問你晚上好嗎？

Um, the prime minister's obviously paying quite a price to try and get these reforms through.

嗯，總理顯然是付出了相當大的代價，試圖通過這些改革。

What?

什麼？

What's the benefit?

有什麼好處？

What's the What's the prize?

什麼是什麼獎？

As far as the government is concerned, it's not just the government.

就政府而言，不僅僅是政府。

Uh, this reforms been needed for for a long period of time.

呃，這種改革已經需要很長時間了。

And previous governments actually commissioned, um, this one, the Swaminathan Committee and various other committees where it came out, that how can we make sure that our farmers I actually do better than what they've been subjected do?

而以前的政府實際上委託，嗯，這一個， Swaminathan委員會和各種其他委員會 它出來，我們如何才能確保我們的農民 我實際上做得更好 比他們已經受到什麼？

How can they come out off the poverty trap?

如何讓他們走出貧困陷阱？

How can they come out off not being in the shackles off the agriculture produced Monday's that you mentioned earlier on so long before the present Indian government started, started started the government.

他們怎麼能出來不在枷鎖中關閉農業生產週一的，你剛才提到的這麼久之前，現在的印度政府開始，開始啟動政府。

It waas actually in the pipeline, and many states actually made those rules so that, for example, if we look at a Pepsi Pepsi company wanted potatoes or the crisp or if any other, like wine for the beer or any any other commodities there are.

它實際上是在醞釀中，許多州實際上制定了這些規則，所以，例如，如果我們看一個百事可樂百事可樂公司想要洋芋或脆皮或如果任何其他，像葡萄酒的啤酒或任何其他商品有。

There were certain routes, but everything was shackled, shackled in terms of very rigid regulations.

有一定的路線，但一切都被束縛，束縛在非常嚴格的規定上。

And when you look around the world, when you look at the agriculture laws of this country, modernization is required to meet the need off the other.

而當你環顧世界，當你審視這個國家的農業法，現代化是需要滿足需要關其他。

And modernization is something that should be helpful.

而現代化是應該有所幫助的。

Toe everyone, and this is what the these laws are.

趾大家，這就是這些法律。

So if you look back, even there are, uh, there are newspaper clippings.

所以，如果你回頭看，甚至有，呃，有剪報。

There are video recordings off many people who are actually objecting to these laws now.

現在有很多人反對這些法律的視頻記錄下來。

Sunny handle.

陽光手柄。

Let's bring Sunny in here Tripti unexceptional in the sense that it's intended to improve productivity, taking the in agriculture into the modern age.

讓我們把Sunny帶到這裡來Tripti不例外，因為它的目的是提高生產力，把農業帶入現代社會。

So why is it politically dangerous?

那麼，為什麼會有政治危險呢？

Do you think for Narendra Modi to press ahead with this Good evening.

你覺得納倫德拉-莫迪會不會按兵不動？ 晚上好。

I mean, look, it's a bit like, I think, putting a corner shop next to Tesco and saying to them, You know, go and compete against each other.

我的意思是，你看，這有點像，我認為，把一個角落裡的商店旁邊的樂購，並告訴他們，你知道，去競爭對方。

There's no doubt that India's, uh, you know, farm laws and its whole agriculture system needs modernization.

毫無疑問，印度的，呃，你知道的，農業法及其整個農業系統需要現代化。

But the problem is most people who are farmers in India.

但問題是大多數人都是印度的農民。

I think there is a There's a strong UK connection here because you have to remember there's 500,000 jobs in this country and they have a strong family links to Punjab.

我認為這裡和英國有很強的聯繫，因為你要記住這個國家有50萬個工作崗位，他們和旁遮普有很強的家庭聯繫。

That's why they're angry about these issues.

所以他們才會對這些問題感到憤怒。

The problem is that you're putting these small businessmen and saying to them, Go and compete and work with these giant multinationals.

問題是，你把這些小商人，對他們說，去和這些巨型跨國公司競爭、合作。

What's gonna happen?

會發生什麼？

What they're going to do is they're going to squeeze the small farmers.

他們要做的是他們要壓榨小農。

I think that's the biggest worry for a lot of them in India, and that's why actually there's been so much interest off on this issue, even in the UK because, uh, you know, like I said, there's a There's a half a million jobs in this country in Canada in the United States and all these people have family links to what's going on in India.

我想這是很多印度人最擔心的問題 這也是為什麼人們對這個問題有這麼大的興趣 甚至在英國也是如此，因為，你知道，就像我說的，這個國家有50萬個工作機會 在加拿大，在美國，所有這些人都與印度發生的事情有家庭聯繫。

They're interested in, uh, you know, the political affairs over there, but they're interested in what their families, how they're being affected by this whole situation, and most farmers across the country are saying this is gonna be bad for us.

他們感興趣的，呃，你知道， 政治事務在那邊， 但他們感興趣的是他們的家庭， 他們是如何被影響 這整個情況，和大多數農民 全國各地都說這是要去 對我們不利。

You are putting us at the mercy off multinational corporations trip to that.

你是在讓我們任由跨國公司的擺佈。

That's gotta be a point that people will just be rolled under the steam roller of big agribusiness at once.

這得有一點，人們就會一下子被捲到大農業企業的蒸汽滾筒下。

These traditional protections were removed.

這些傳統的保護措施被取消。

Well, if you think about it, there are 104 100 million farmers in India, and how many are protesting?

好吧，如果你仔細想想，印度有1.04億農民，有多少人在抗議？

See what you got to look at it.

看你有什麼好看的。

A swell is that it's not just the pin jobs who have got the links to the farming.

膨脹的是，不僅是針工得到了養殖的鏈接。

There are.

有：

There are Gujarati is there are Biharis.

有古吉拉特人就有比哈爾人。

There are questions.

有問題。

There are all sorts of Indians all over.

到處都是各種各樣的印度人。

Indians living in this country have farming roots in India.

生活在這個國家的印度人在印度有農耕的根基。

So So it is not fair to actually say that on leaping Giambi's.

所以，所以說，其實在躍躍欲試的吉安比的身上是不公平的。

And if you look at the whole situation out of 100 million farmers if, um, less than a percent 1% are actually, um, talking against it, then there is some concern, and the government actually talked to them 11 times on.

如果你看看整個情況出1億農民，如果，嗯，不到百分之一的1%，實際上，嗯，說反對它，那麼有一些關注，政府實際上與他們談了11次上。

Uh, the the argument being put forward is that you've got to repeal this first.

爭論的焦點是你得先廢除這個。

Now you tell me first, Is there any government in the world?

現在你先告訴我，世界上有沒有政府？

That is when they put a law in with both houses off the parliament without any objections or obstructions.

那就是他們在兩院都不在議會的情況下，在沒有任何反對或阻撓的情況下，把一項法律放進去。

With all proper process followed, then how can a handful of people say that repeal this law?

既然都走了正當的程序，那麼怎麼能讓一小撮人說廢除這個法律呢？

No.

不知道

The best thing is really to sit down together, the media together to go point by point and remove those points that you don't like it.

最好的事情真的是一起坐下來，媒體一起去逐個點，去掉那些你不喜歡的點。

There is no agitation is okay, but you need to You need to negotiate to achieve something.

沒有激動是可以的，但你需要 你需要通過談判來實現一些事情。

It's not in the interest off the your country or people or people living abroad like all of us.

這不符合你的國家或人民或像我們一樣生活在國外的人的利益。

Sonny, actually, let me bring you in.

桑尼，其實，讓我帶你進來。

Let Sorry, sorry, Tripti, but just picking up on your last point about the need to sit down and negotiate.

抱歉，抱歉，Tripti，我只是想說說你最後的觀點，即需要坐下來談判。

I just wanted to what extent?

我只是想知道到什麼程度？

The inter communal dynamic of this.

這其中的社區間動態。

He's going to complicate those negotiations because it's obvious looking at the footage that a lot of Sikhs are involved in this protest on, I wondered to what extent that community feels that these laws are working particularly against their interests.

他將使這些談判複雜化，因為很明顯，看著很多錫克教徒參與這次抗議活動的鏡頭，我想知道在多大程度上，該社區認為這些法律對他們的利益特別不利。

Well, it's not just seek Thio getting involved in these protests.

不僅僅是尋求Thio參與這些抗議活動。

They've been protests all over the country, from the south to the east, to the west and the north, where Punjab is.

他們在全國各地都有抗議活動，從南部到東部，再到西部和北部，旁遮普省就在那裡。

But you know, actually what's happening over there is gonna have a huge impact over here is well, And that's because you know what the government is doing now is trying to make this into a Sikh protests and say that these people are being led by extremists and their seeks, and they're trying to take the government into, you know, ruin the government.

但實際上，那裡發生的事情會對這裡產生巨大的影響，因為你知道政府現在正在做的是試圖把這變成一個錫克教徒的抗議活動，並說這些人是由極端分子上司的，他們試圖把政府帶入，你知道，毀掉政府。

And what it's doing is it's turning this whole issue into a seeks versus Hindu issue as a way to delegitimize the protests.

而它所做的就是把整個問題變成了一個尋求與印度教的問題，以此來使抗議活動失去合法性。

And that's dangerous because, like I said, there's 500,006 in this country.

這是很危險的，因為就像我說的，這個國家有500,006人。

There's 500,100 years a country as a result of this.

有500100年一個國家的結果。

Yes, if there is violence in India, there's gonna be violence in this country.

是的，如果印度有暴力，這個國家就會有暴力。

That's what worries me.

這就是我所擔心的。

And I think that we, as the government here, have a duty to tell the Indian government to calm down some of its rhetoric because it's really hate speech over there, and it's really dangerous.

我認為，我們作為這裡的政府，有責任告訴印度政府，讓它的一些言論冷靜下來，因為它在那邊真的是仇恨言論，這真的很危險。

Final answer Tripti Fair point there from Sunni need to cool this atmosphere now.

最後的答案Tripti公平點有從遜尼派需要冷卻這種氣氛了。

Well, absolutely.

嗯，絕對的。

In a sense that you need to talk.

在某種意義上，你需要談談。

Both sides need to come on the table.

雙方都需要上臺面。

Both sides need to start talking sense.

雙方需要開始講道理。

Okay?

好嗎？

I don't think that in this country we work on interfaith level.

我不認為在這個國家，我們的工作是在宗教間的層面。

We work on a local level, regional level.

我們在地方、區域層面開展工作。

We worked with the Hindu sick community is not separated because if you look back, the roots roots is in in this another way, the culture as we call it on the subcontinent.

我們跟印度教病態社區合作是不分開的，因為如果你回過頭來看，根基是在這另一種方式，我們所說的文化在次大陸。

So I can't see that the two communities could be at the loggerhead.

所以，我看不出兩界會有什麼矛盾。

What we need is true.

我們需要的是真實。

It's actually happening.

它實際上正在發生。

It's already been happening over the last four years since you know what the Oh, I'm sorry.

它已經發生在過去的四年裡，因為你知道什麼哦，對不起。

I'm sorry.

我很抱歉

We've got to end it there.

我們必須在這裡結束。

Sonny, Handle trip to Patel.

桑尼，處理好巴特爾的行程。

I'm so sorry.

我很抱歉

We've just got to end it there.

我們只是要在這裡結束它。

We're out of time.

我們沒時間了