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  • [INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC]

    [樂器]

  • I think the most important thing that we as writers can do

    我覺得作為作家,我們最重要的事情是

  • is to write about the experience that we know,

    就是要寫出我們所知道的經驗。

  • because there is a good chance that other people

    因為別人很有可能

  • have had that experience, too.

    也有過這樣的經歷。

  • So I think what the future's going

    所以我覺得未來的發展

  • to look like is those people who've been

    樣子是那些人誰已經被

  • working so hard for so long--

    辛苦了這麼久

  • getting their chance to tell their stories the way

    機會,以他們的方式講述他們的故事

  • that they want to tell them.

    他們想告訴他們的。

  • [MUSIC]

    [Music]

  • One of the beautiful things about the Latin X List

    關於拉丁X名單的一個美麗的事情。

  • is that you have 10 writers who all come

    是你有10個作家誰都來了

  • from different experiences.

    從不同的經驗來看。

  • What drives you?

    你的動力是什麼?

  • What's that push?

    那是什麼推力?

  • To me, my culture represents a north

    對我來說,我的文化代表了一種北

  • star that I can kind of follow.

    星,我可以種跟隨。

  • Like, I'm trying to be the artist both my parents

    就像,我試圖成為藝術家 我的父母都是

  • weren't allowed to be.

    是不允許的。

  • They know how complicated it is being Latinx in this country.

    他們知道在這個國家做拉丁人有多複雜。

  • We've been here.

    我們已經在這裡。

  • We're indigenous.

    我們是土著。

  • This is our home.

    這是我們的家。

  • I feel like now, people are willing to pay attention.

    我覺得現在,大家都願意關注了。

  • [MUSIC]

    [Music]

  • Hi.

    嗨,我的天

  • I'm Niko Gutiérrez-Kovner, and I am part of the Latinx TV List.

    我是Niko Gutiérrez-Kovner,我是Latinx TV List的一員。

  • These are my parents, Victoria and Steve Gutiérrez-Kovner.

    這是我的父母,維多利亞和史蒂夫-古鐵雷斯-科夫納。

  • And we're going to have a conversation.

    我們要進行一次談話。

  • Do you want to get into your--

    你想進入你的...

  • how you came here?

    你怎麼來的?

  • We left Cuba when I was 11 years old.

    我11歲的時候,我們離開了古巴。

  • My step dad had to work three years in the fields

    我的繼父在田裡幹了三年的工

  • in order for us to leave.

    為了讓我們離開。

  • And I was not able to wear the uniform at school--

    而且我在學校裡不能穿校服... ...

  • The communists.

    共產黨人。

  • Yes.

    是的,我知道

  • They called me a traitor, and a gusana, a worm.

    他們叫我叛徒,叫我古薩那,叫我蟲子。

  • And so it was a very difficult three years of feeling

    所以這是一個非常困難的三年的感覺

  • alienated, feeling like I had no home before I left home.

    疏遠了,覺得自己離家前沒有家的感覺。

  • So when we left Cuba, one of the most traumatic things

    所以當我們離開古巴的時候,最痛苦的事情之一是:

  • that I went through at the airport

    我在機場經歷的

  • is that the guard snapped my passport

    是那個保全把我的護照弄壞了

  • and stamped them boy and said you will

    並蓋章他們的男孩,說你會

  • never return to Cuba again--

    再也不回古巴了

  • taking away our birthright.

    剝奪了我們與生俱來的權利。

  • And then we came to the United States.

    然後我們來到了美國。

  • And that was a really difficult transition.

    而這是一個非常困難的過渡。

  • I was embarrassed of my accent.

    我為自己的口音感到尷尬。

  • I had a very heavy accent.

    我的口音很重。

  • And I was humiliated because kids would make fun of me.

    而且我很丟臉,因為孩子們會取笑我。

  • You were the first in your family to become a citizen,

    你是你們家族中第一個成為公民的人。

  • right?

    對不對

  • I was the first in my family-- my mid 20s.

    我是家裡第一個... 20多歲的人。

  • My parents didn't want to become citizens,

    我父母不想成為公民。

  • because they thought that was betraying

    因為他們認為那是背叛

  • their Cuban citizenship.

    他們的古巴公民身份,

  • Which is complicated.

    這很複雜。

  • They also did not associate themselves

    他們也沒有把自己

  • with the Cubans remaining there, for the most part, because--

    而古巴人大部分都留在那裡,因為...

  • Well they didn't associate themselves with the regime,

    好吧,他們沒有把自己和政權聯繫在一起。

  • but they did with the people, and their land,

    但他們對人民,對他們的土地。

  • and their country.

    和他們的國家。

  • And the family who remained there--

    而留在那裡的家人...

  • Yeah.

    是啊。

  • I know that you felt lucky having your parents come here

    我知道你覺得你父母來這裡很幸運。

  • to give you the opportunity to be able to go to school

    讓你有機會能夠上學。

  • and to pursue social work and--

    並繼續從事社會工作和...

  • I'm very grateful that we are here.

    我很感激我們在這裡。

  • It's the work of your parents.

    這是你父母的工作。

  • Yes.

    是的,我知道

  • It's impossible to deny how brave and--

    不可能否認它是多麼的勇敢和 --

  • the courage that I--

    勇氣,我 -

  • I don't think I have, frankly.

    坦白說,我不認為我有。

  • How was it to go and visit in 2016?

    2016年去參觀的時候,感覺怎麼樣?

  • It was sad.

    這是很可悲的。

  • It was sadder than I thought it would be.

    這比我想象中的還要悲傷。

  • I mean, you know, you cried every day.

    我的意思是,你知道,你每天都在哭。

  • It was sad to like go into a hotel

    我很難過,喜歡進酒店

  • and for our family to not be allowed past to lobby.

    併為我們家不允許過去遊說。

  • The Cuban family.

    古巴家庭;

  • The Cuban family.

    古巴家庭;

  • The people are so incredible.

    人們是如此的不可思議。

  • You know, it just felt like all the family members

    你知道,它只是感覺像所有的家庭成員。

  • that I had grown up with except a country's worth.

    我長大了,除了一個國家的價值。

  • And they were all so warm and so kind.

    而且他們都很熱情,很善良。

  • But, you know, you could also sense like, la lucha, you know.

    但是,你知道,你也可以感覺到像, 拉魯察,你知道。

  • It's a struggle.

    這是一個鬥爭。

  • La lucha.

    La lucha。

  • It's-- there's a desperation.

    這是... ... 有一個絕望。

  • And Cubans are the most, like, inventive people

    而古巴人是最有創造力的人。

  • I've ever, ever [BLEEP] seen.

    我曾經,曾經[BLEEP]見過。

  • Like, it's just-- it's incredibly.

    就像,這只是 - 這是令人難以置信的。

  • Yeah, they figure it out.

    是的,他們想出了辦法。

  • And there's a humor that, that underlays all that.

    有一種幽默感,支撐著這一切。

  • Right.

    好吧,我知道了

  • They have the most positive outlook on life.

    他們有著最積極的人生觀。

  • What stuck with you about our Cuban traditions?

    古巴的傳統讓你印象深刻的是什麼?

  • Watching with you, like ¿Qué Pasa, USA?

    和你一起看,就像美國的 "Qué Pasa"?

  • [LAUGHTER]

    [笑聲]

  • --which is just like, it's so funny to see the difference.

    --這就像,它是如此有趣,看到的差異。

  • And, I mean, that show was so important, obviously,

    而且,我的意思是,那個節目是如此重要,很明顯。

  • because it was in the 70s on PBS.

    因為它是在70年代的PBS。

  • To depict a Cuban family at that time

    描繪當時的古巴家庭。

  • was like, pretty incredible.

    就像,相當不可思議。

  • A lot of people, obviously, don't know about it,

    很多人,顯然是不知道的。

  • but we have the box set--

    但我們有盒裝 -

  • we have the DVD box set.

    我們有DVD盒裝。

  • We watched it over and over again.

    我們看了一遍又一遍。

  • It's just like, what is this?

    這就像,這是什麼?

  • [LAUGHTER]

    [笑聲]

  • It just, like, doesn't compute at all.

    它只是,喜歡,不計算在所有。

  • But, like, I see our family in that.

    但是,就像,我看到了我們家的情況。

  • And I would love to be able to, like,

    我很想能夠,喜歡。

  • replicate that experience.

    複製這種經驗。

  • Because how important was that show for you?

    因為那個節目對你來說有多重要?

  • It was so important--

    它是如此重要 --

  • To come to this country and to know that, like,

    來到這個國家,要知道,像。

  • you could be on a screen--

    你可以在一個螢幕上 -

  • Yes.

    是的,我知道

  • So going back to the idea of your, sort of,

    所以回到你的想法,算是。

  • coming into your full Latinx identity, what,

    進入你的全部拉丁裔身份,什麼。

  • sort of, solidified it for you?

    某種程度上,鞏固了你的地位?

  • I didn't think about my heritage for a very long time.

    我很久沒有考慮過自己的遺產問題了。

  • You know, it's not that I was ashamed of it.

    你知道,這並不是說我感到羞愧。

  • It's just that I wasn't particularly proud of it.

    只是我並沒有特別驕傲。

  • And I think after Abuela passed away, your mom, I

    我想Abuela去世後,你媽媽,我...

  • became very proud of it.

    變得非常自豪。

  • And I realized that the impact that her life had on my life--

    我意識到她的生活對我生活的影響... ...

  • that her courage had on me.

    她的勇氣對我的影響。

  • And it was because of her that we were here.

    正是因為她,我們才會在這裡。

  • You started writing stories about diversity

    你開始寫關於多樣性的故事

  • and about embracing diversity.

    以及關於接受多樣性的問題。

  • As a writer, what inspired you to write Cuba Libre?

    作為一個作家,是什麼啟發了你寫《自由古巴》?

  • Yes, so being told from a very young age

    是的,所以從小就被告知

  • that I looked like your father, who I had never met--

    我看起來像你的父親,我從來沒有見過 --

  • And so I was fascinated with him, of course.

    所以我當然對他很著迷。

  • And when I was old enough, being told

    而當我長大後,被告知

  • what a complex personality, to put it nicely, he was.

    多麼複雜的個性,說得好聽點,他是。

  • And then also having the backdrop

    然後也有背景

  • of the Cuban Revolution which is a story that--

    古巴革命的故事,這是一個...

  • I like to say nobody knows about it because, you know,

    我喜歡說沒有人知道它,因為,你知道的。

  • Cuban-Americans like me don't know about it because it's very

    像我這樣的古巴裔美國人不知道它,因為它是非常的。

  • taboo to talk about it, because nobody wants

    忌諱談論它,因為沒有人願意。

  • to talk about Fidel Castro.

    來談菲德爾-卡斯特羅。

  • And do you?

    你呢?

  • Frankly?

    坦白說?

  • You wish Castro died in the pilot.

    你希望Castro死在飛行員身上

  • Unfortunately-- [LAUGHTER]

    不幸的是 -- [笑]

  • --that is not how it happened.

    --事情不是這樣的。

  • He died in 2016.

    他於2016年去世。

  • And then of course, like, Americans don't know about it

    然後,當然,像,美國人不知道它。

  • because of the embargo.

    因為禁運。

  • And Cubans don't know about it because of the information

    而古巴人不知道這一點,因為資訊

  • repression of the regime.

    對政權的鎮壓。

  • And so once I learned that you went to the same school

    所以當我知道你們是同一所學校的時候

  • as Fidel Castro--

    飾演菲德爾-卡斯特羅

  • it's always been really fascinating to me.

    它一直是真的讓我著迷。

  • And knowing that those family stories wove in and out of such

    而知道那些家庭故事在這樣的故事中交織在一起

  • a fascinating time period.

    一個迷人的時代。

  • Do you feel a responsibility to the Latinx community

    你覺得你對拉丁裔社區有責任嗎?

  • to relate this story so that people

    講述這個故事,讓人們

  • can find themselves in them?

    能在其中找到自己的影子?

  • I do feel a sense of responsibility

    我確實感到責任重大

  • for the Latinx community because, for so long,

    因為,長期以來,