Name: 前FBI局長詹姆斯-科米談特朗普被彈劾和未來進一步的暴力事件 - BBC新聞之夜 (Ex-FBI Director James Comey on Trump's impeachment and further violence to come - BBC Newsnight)
Uploaded: 2021-01-14T18:41:41.000Z
Duration: 10 min 6 s

轉承詞

I think the United States Congress had to serve notice that this behavior, even though it's coming at the end of his term, needed a permanent historic mark.

我認為美國國會必鬚髮出通知，這種行為，即使是在他的任期結束時，也需要一個永久的歷史標記。

And I think they made the right decision.

我認為他們做出了正確的決定。

One congressman told of fears of his Republican colleagues that voting for impeachment could endanger his life.

一位國會議員講述了他的共和黨同事的擔憂，即投票支持彈劾可能會危及他的生命。

Does that sound like a kind of terrorism to you?

你覺得這聽起來像是一種恐怖主義嗎？

There are always crazy people in a position to threaten government officials.

總有一些瘋子有能力威脅政府官員。

Do you believe that Donald Trump has to be removed from office before inauguration?

你認為唐納德-特朗普必須在就職前被免職嗎？

I think it would be good for our country if he were, because it would send a signal that this is absolutely beyond the pale, unacceptable behavior by any American leader.

我認為這將是很好的 為我們的國家，如果他是， 因為它會發出一個信號，這是絕對 超出了蒼白，不可接受的行為 由任何美國領導人。

What would be your message to Donald Trump right now?

你現在會對唐納德-特朗普說什麼？

If you could speak directly to him, I don't think I would actually waste my breath since we're talking about a lawless nihilist.

如果你能和他直接對話，我想我其實不會浪費口舌，因為我們說的是一個無法無天的虛無主義者。

But if I had to deliver him a message, I would say it.

但如果要我給他傳話，我會說的。

There's no way out of this for you except to accept the judgment of the nation and leave the stage and allow this nation to try to heal.

你除了接受國家的審判，離開舞臺，讓這個國家試著療傷之外，沒有其他的辦法。

We're now a week on from those scenes of mayhem violence on the capital.

我們現在已經從那些首都的混亂暴力場面過去一週了。

你對你看到的東西有什麼看法？

I was sickened, as I hope, not just all Americans, but all human beings were by an attack on a symbol of democracy, the center of democracy for our country and a symbol, I hope for the whole world.

我感到噁心，我希望，不僅僅是所有的美國人，而是所有的人都被攻擊了，攻擊的對象是民主的象徵，是我們國家的民主中心，我希望是整個世界的象徵。

As a former law enforcement official for the life of me, I can't understand why that Hill was not adequately defended.

作為一個曾經的執法者，我一輩子都不明白，為什麼那個希爾沒有得到充分的辯護。

I think it's gonna be very important for our country to take a look back as we did after 9 11 and understand what happened and why.

我認為這將是非常重要的，我們的國家採取回頭看，因為我們做了9 11後，並瞭解發生了什麼，為什麼。

You famously led the FBI, and the question many are asking this time is, Where were they?

你是著名的FBI上司，這次很多人問的問題是，他們在哪裡？

他們一定是滲透到這些組織中去了。

他們一定看到了計劃中的內容。

How can the director Christopher Wray still be in place.

導演克里斯托弗-雷怎麼可能還在原地。

That's those questions can't be answered yet.

Those are the right questions to ask, but you need to do a much deeper dive in a much more careful, thoughtful gathering of information to understand.

這些問題都是正確的，但你需要做更深入的調查，在更仔細、更周到的收集資訊，才能瞭解。

What did they do with what they knew, who acted on that information?

他們用他們所知道的資訊做了什麼，誰根據這些資訊採取行動？

It just can't be judged from this vantage point, but it should be judged.

只是不能從這個有利的角度去判斷，但應該去判斷。

It's kind of late in the day, I guess, to be, you know, deep diving on this because some will be concerned that for four years the key institutions of America have bean scared of upsetting a fragile president.

我想現在深究這個問題有點晚了 因為有些人會擔心四年來美國的主要機構都害怕打亂一個脆弱的總統。

This is just speculation, but I think the FBI director who followed me has been very careful to maintain a lower profile so that he doesn't get fired by an erratic president and have the FBI decapitated at a critical time in our nation.

這只是猜測，但我認為跟隨我的FBI局長一直很小心地保持低調，以免在國家的關鍵時刻被一個反覆無常的總統炒掉，讓FBI被斬首。

I bet he's thinking that right now, this week, it's important not to let the eye of Sauron fall on you and and have the FBI director fired.

我敢打賭，他現在一定在想，這個星期，重要的是不要讓索倫的眼睛落在你身上，並且讓聯邦調查局局長被解僱。

The FBI, we know has warned of the possibility of further riots further action by militias.

我們知道，聯邦調查局已經警告說，民兵可能會採取進一步的騷亂行動。

我們知道一個失敗的管道炸彈襲擊。

對於未來的日子，你害怕什麼？

I'm worried that there are serious threats, but I also know because I've been involved in securing two inaugurations that this for American security services, is the Super Bowl of security.

我很擔心有嚴重的威脅，但我也知道，因為我已經參與了兩次就職典禮的安保工作，這對美國安全部門來說，是安全的超級碗。

We know how to secure to completely locked down a large piece of ground, and I'm confident that will be done.

我們知道如何確保完全鎖定一大片地面，我相信會做到這一點。

But at the same time, I know the threat is really Do you believe that the mega movement itself is becoming synonymous with a conspiracy led extremism threat?

但與此同時，我知道這個威脅真的是 你認為超大型運動本身正在成為陰謀主導的極端主義威脅的代名詞嗎？

There's a reason the American people associate the red hats with something racist and that they should be fearful of.

美國人把紅帽子和種族主義的東西聯繫在一起，他們應該感到恐懼，這是有原因的。

It's probably an exaggeration because there's so many millions of Americans who are not violent people.

這可能是一種誇張的說法，因為有那麼幾百萬美國人不是暴力分子。

People have just been people who've been fooled.

I'm not talking about the Maga movement as a whole, but significant aspect of and you saw it live.

我不是在說馬加爵運動作為一個整體，但重要的方面，你看到它的生活。

And on television at Capitol Hill, significant aspects of those people who consider themselves devotees of Donald Trump are people that I would classify as domestic terrorists in your book, you've written that Donald Trump shouldn't face prosecution.

而在國會山的電視上，那些自認為是唐納德-特朗普的信徒的重要方面是我在你的書中歸類為國內恐怖分子的人，你寫道，唐納德-特朗普不應該面臨起訴。

I know it was penned earlier in the autumn.

我知道這是秋日早些時候寫的。

I still think that on balance, the best decision for the United States of America will be not to grant Donald Trump the platform that prosecuting him would give him for every day for three or four years in the nation's capital is United States.

我仍然認為，權衡之下，對美利堅合眾國來說，最好的決定將是不給予唐納德-特朗普的平臺，起訴他將給他在國家首都是美國的每一天三年或四年。

Vs Trump appeared on television every day.

Vs特朗普每天都出現在電視上。

I think the better thing for our country and our new president is to push Donald Trump to the side a bit.

我認為對我們的國家和我們的新總統來說，更好的做法是把唐納德-特朗普推到一邊去。

I'd rather the TV lights go out and he stand on the lawn at March, a Lago shouting at cars in his bathrobe.

我寧願電視燈熄滅，他站在三月的草坪上，穿著浴袍對著汽車大喊大叫的拉哥。

We're none of us can hear that it is not position, isn't it?

我們誰也聽不出來，這不是立場嗎？

For a federal prosecutor, I mean, you've built your career on doing the right thing in the name of justice and being transparent and showing mawr importantly, that actions have consequences.

對於一個聯邦檢察官來說，我的意思是，你已經建立了你的職業生涯 在做正確的事情在正義的名義，是透明的，並顯示mawr重要的是， 行動有後果。

Eso if the appearance of fairness matters if we arrest drug dealers on shopkeepers, why wouldn't you extend that same sense of the appearance of fairness Look, I know it's an odd thing for me to say, given my career, and given that the guy's been saying I should be in jail for the last four years.

如果我們逮捕毒販子的時候要講究外表的公平性 那你為什麼不把外表的公平性也擴大化呢？ 我知道我這麼說很奇怪，因為我的職業 而且這傢伙在過去四年裡一直說我應該坐牢

But I'm trying to make a judgment about what's best for the country.

但我想做出一個對國家最有利的判斷。

I obviously think he belongs in jail, but I don't think pursuing that is in the best interest of the entire nation.

我顯然認為他應該被關進監獄，但我不認為追求這一點是對整個國家的最佳利益。

Do you think Joe Biden should pardon Trump us for did Nixon?

你覺得喬-拜登應該赦免特朗普我們做的尼克松嗎？

I don't know whether Donald Trump he's not a genius, but he might figure out that if he accepts a pardon, that's an admission of guilt.

我不知道唐納德-特朗普他是不是個天才，但他可能會想明白，如果他接受赦免，那就是承認有罪。

I don't know that he would accept a pardon, but as part of healing the country in getting us to a place where we can focus on things that are gonna matter over the next four years, I think Joe Biden is gonna have the least think about that.

我不知道他是否會接受赦免，但作為治癒國家的一部分，讓我們能夠專注於未來四年重要的事情，我認為喬-拜登至少會考慮這個問題。

There's a lot of talk of Donald Trump attempting to pardon himself.

有很多關於唐納德-特朗普試圖赦免自己的說法。

Does he open himself up to more litigation, more prosecution?

他是否會給自己帶來更多的訴訟、更多的起訴？

If he does that, yeah, that would be an unusually dumb thing, even for him to dio, because it's unsettled as to whether a president can do that.

如果他這麼做，是的，這將是一件異常愚蠢的事情，即使是對他來說也是dio，因為總統是否可以這麼做還沒有定論。

I believe the president can't It would be a lawless act.

我相信總統不能這樣做，那是無法無天的行為。

It would prompt the Department of Justice toe have to prosecute him so that they could litigate this question about whether that's an effective release from criminal liability.

這將促使司法部不得不起訴他，這樣他們就可以就這個問題進行訴訟，這是否是一個有效的刑事責任免除。

So in a way, by trying to give himself a shield, he would be inviting the sword of the Department of Justice.

所以從某種程度上來說，他想給自己一個擋箭牌，就等於招來了司法部的劍。

What about those who've enabled the false narrative this time around?

Ted Cruz, Josh, Holy Senators who've pushed to overturn the election result?

泰德-克魯茲，喬希，聖參議員們誰推動了推翻選舉結果？

Do you believe they're guilty off attempted insurrection?

你認為他們犯了叛亂未遂罪嗎？

Would you suggest they should be removed from office?

I don't I can't offer an opinion on whether they're legally responsible, because that's a That's a technical question, but they're morally responsible.

我不能... ...我不能對他們是否有法律責任提供意見，因為那是一個技術問題，但他們有道德責任。

They lit a fire in a crowded building, knowing exactly what they were doing, and now they're standing outside, saying they were shocked, shocked that people ran from the building and got hurt by the flames.

他們在一棟擁擠的大樓裡點了一把火，他們很清楚自己在做什麼，現在他們站在外面，說他們很震驚，震驚於人們從大樓裡跑出來，被火燒傷。

How would you answer House Republicans who say the whole impeachment process is just political on unnecessarily divisive at this time someone who says that is really not worthy of a response.

你會如何回答眾議院共和黨人，他們說整個彈劾過程只是政治上不必要的分裂，在這個時候有人說這真的不值得迴應。

James Comey Last time we spoke about the 2016 election, the part you may have played inadvertently in bringing Donald Trump to power when you told the public you were reopening the investigation into Hillary Clinton's emails nine days before the election, I remember you said to me you had to choose between a bad decision on a disastrous one.

詹姆斯-科米上一次我們談到2016年的選舉，你可能在無意中扮演的角色使唐納德-特朗普上臺，當你告訴公眾你在大選前九天重啟對希拉里-克林頓電子郵件的調查時，我記得你對我說，你必須在一個災難性的錯誤決定之間做出選擇。

You hoped you'd made the least bad choice.

When you look at where we are today, do you honestly still believe that I dio dio?

當你看到我們今天的處境時，你真的還相信我dio dio嗎？

It makes it all the more painful decision.

But even if I could travel back in time, you can't have the FBI director making decisions based on who he thinks should be president.

但即使我可以回到過去 你也不能讓FBI局長根據他認為應該由誰來當總統來做決定

It was between bad and disastrous, and I would love, never have been involved.

這介於糟糕和災難之間，我很想，從來沒有參與過。

But having been involved, we had to choose the choice that we chose.

但既然已經參與其中，我們就不得不選擇自己的選擇。

Do you think that history students will come to see this as a moment when the Democratic Institutions of America held up under enormous pressure?

你認為歷史系的學生會把這看作是美國的民主制度在巨大壓力下堅持下來的時刻嗎？

Or will they say, Gosh, they came perilously close to collapse.

還是會說，天哪，他們險些崩潰。

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前FBI局長詹姆斯-科米談特朗普被彈劾和未來進一步的暴力事件 - BBC新聞之夜 (Ex-FBI Director James Comey on Trump's impeachment and further violence to come - BBC Newsnight)

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