Today, the Democrats introduced one article of impeachment charging President Donald Trump with incitement to insurrection.

今天，民主黨人提出了一項彈劾條款，指控總統唐納德-特朗普煽動叛亂。

Sadly, the person who's running executive Branch is a deranged, unhinged, dangerous president of the United States and only a number of days until we can be protected from him.

可悲的是，管理行政部門的人是一個精神錯亂、失去理智、危險的美國總統，距離我們能免受他的傷害只有若干天了。

But he has done something so serious that there should be prosecution against him.

但是，他做了這麼嚴重的事情，應該對他進行起訴。

The Democrats are trying to put pressure on Vice President Mike Pence and the Cabinet to remove President Trump using the 25th Amendment, but that's so far looks unlikely.

民主黨人正試圖向副總統邁克-彭斯和內閣施壓，要求他們利用第25修正案罷免特朗普總統，但到目前為止，這看起來不太可能。

Madam Speaker.

議長女士，

Assuming that fails, the Democrats in the House will start debating impeachment on Wednesday.

假設失敗，眾議院的民主黨人將在週三開始辯論彈劾案。

But given America will have a new president a week later, there is an obvious question.

但考慮到一週後美國將有新總統，有一個明顯的問題。

What's the point of impeaching Donald Trump when he's out of office in what nine days time?

唐納德-特朗普還有九天就下臺了，彈劾他有什麼意義？

One is we need to set a precedent that if you lose an election, you can't just continue contesting it and trying to overturn the will of the people because there could be future wannabe strong men who follow President Trump's playbook.

一是我們需要樹立一個先例，如果你輸掉了選舉，你不能只是繼續競爭，試圖推翻人民的意志，因為可能會有未來的崇拜者強者遵循特朗普總統的劇本。

We want them to know that if they dio, they will be sanctioned in a serious way.

我們要讓他們知道，如果他們不聽話，他們會受到嚴肅的制裁。

The second reason is that impeachment not only remove the president from serving, but it prevents them from ever running or serving again.

第二個原因是，彈劾不僅可以免除總統的職務，而且可以防止他們再次競選或任職。

So if you don't want President Trump to win in 2024 it makes sense to impeach.

所以，如果你不想讓特朗普總統在2024年獲勝，那麼彈劾是有意義的。

Now away from the politics, more and more videos of the riots have been posted on social media, bringing home two Americans.

現在遠離政治，越來越多的騷亂視頻被髮布在社交媒體上，讓兩個美國人回家。

Just what happened at their congress.

只是在他們的大會上發生了什麼。

Theo.

西奧

Chaos and violence is now clear toe Okay, the fighting to get past police that this door was intense.

混亂和暴力是現在明確的腳趾好了，為了通過警察，這門的戰鬥很激烈。

Officer is dragged down the steps and savagely beaten.

官員被拖下臺階，遭到野蠻毆打。

Thank you.

謝謝你了

Another is crushed in a door.

另一個被壓在門裡。

Is the crowd surges?

是人潮湧動？

Why were the police caught so unprepared?

為什麼警方被抓得如此措手不及？

Here's the front of the Senate building is the crowds started to gather just one officer on the steps.

這裡是參議院大樓的前面是人群開始聚集，只有一個官員在臺階上。

Compare that to the steps of the Lincoln Memorial during the BLM protests in the summer.

對比一下林肯紀念堂的臺階，在夏天BLM的抗議活動中。

Why the different levels of response?

為什麼會有不同程度的反應？

The authorities have started arresting some suspects trying to identify others.

當局已經開始逮捕一些嫌疑人，試圖確認其他人的身份。

I filmed the group of proud boys as they marched on the capital last Wednesday.

我拍下了這群驕傲的男孩，因為他們上週三在首都遊行。

Their intention was clear.

他們的意圖很明顯。

Taking our fucking country back, many came dressed for trouble.

把我們該死的國家奪回來，很多人都是穿著衣服來找麻煩的。

Have a look at this man in the stars and stripes Hoody on orange balaclava In his tactical vest, he has not only a radio and scissors, but at the end a can of bear spray, a chemical irritant designed to stop a charging grizzly.

看看這個人在星條旗帽上的橙色巴拉卡瓦 在他的戰術背心，他不僅有一個收音機和剪刀，但在最後一罐熊噴霧，化學刺激劑，旨在阻止灰熊衝鋒。

Right behind him is this man.

就在他身後的是這個人。

He's wearing full combat gear.

他穿著全套戰鬥裝備。

He has goggles around his neck and is carrying what appears to be a baseball bat.

他脖子上戴著護目鏡，手裡拿的似乎是一根棒球棍。

There is some insignia on his chest below, which are two pouches.

胸口下面有一些徽章，是兩個小袋。

The black one has a patch on the front that says, Believe it or not, my mom thinks I'm special.

黑色的前面有一個補丁，上面寫著：信不信由你，我媽覺得我很特別。

The D.

D．

C.

C.

Metropolitan Police have issued several photographs of what they turned persons of interest, including the same man inside the Congress, still, with his baseball bat and now a can of something in his hand, perhaps pepper spray.

大都會警方已經發布了幾張照片，他們變成了感興趣的人，包括國會里面的同一個人，仍然是，他的棒球棒，現在他手裡拿著一罐東西，也許是胡椒噴霧。

There is no danger of being under prepared.

不存在準備不足的危險。

Now.

現在就去

A 7 ft high fence has been built right around Congress, aunt thousands of police and military.

在國會周圍建起了7英尺高的圍牆，數千名警察和軍人的阿姨。

And now on the streets, at least another 10,000 will be here in time for the inauguration.

而現在在街頭，至少還有一萬人將趕在就職典禮前來到這裡。

Meanwhile, the D C mayor has urged the public to stay away from Washington next week.

同時，特區市長呼籲公眾下週遠離華盛頓。

David Grossman with that report from Washington and joining us Now.

大衛・格羅斯曼從華盛頓發來的報道，現在加入我們。

Robert Ray, President Trump's attorney for the first impeachment trial this time last year.

去年這個時候，特朗普總統第一次彈劾審判的律師羅伯特-雷。

It was also independent council during the Clinton administration on Democratic Congresswoman Barbara Lee.

在克林頓政府期間，它也是民主黨國會議員芭芭拉-李的獨立委員會。

Welcome to you both.

歡迎你們倆的到來。

Thanks for joining us at Robert Ray.

謝謝你加入我們羅伯特-雷的行列。

If I could just start with you.

如果我可以從你開始。

You have a president accused of inciting violence on incitement to insurrection against the United States.

你有一個總統被指控煽動暴力 煽動對美國的叛亂。

You have five people dead.

你有五個人死了。

It's hard to think of, um, or clear cut case for removing a president.

很難想到，嗯，或者說是明確的撤換總統的案例。

Well, The first thing to analyze, though, is that if you read the draft article of impeachment the basis for the argument that the president himself obviously this has to be personal.

好吧，首先要分析的是，雖然，如果你讀了彈劾條款的草案，論證的基礎是總統本人，顯然這必須是個人的。

This isn't just some sort of impeachment article about all the things that the Democrats don't like about the Trump administration.

這不僅僅是某種彈劾文章，關於民主黨人不喜歡特朗普政府的所有事情。

It has to be tethered to something that he actually did that constitutes high crime or misdemeanor.

必須要和他實際做的構成重罪或輕罪的事情聯繫起來。

And their allegation is that the president made the statement that, uh, if you don't fight like health, you're not going to have a country anymore.

而他們的指控是，總統發表了聲明，呃，如果你不像健康一樣戰鬥，你就不會再有一個國家。

Well, words like that are ambiguous enough that it seems hard for me to understand how you'd be able to prove that a trial that that constitutes what they've charged, which is inciting violence against the government of the United States.

好吧，這樣的詞是含糊不清的足夠 這似乎很難讓我理解 你如何能夠證明 審判，構成他們所指控的，

Now that's not to condone what happened here, and living on the edge of impeachment is no way to conduct a presidency.

這並不是說要縱容這裡發生的事情，生活在彈劾的邊緣是無法進行總統任期的。

But that's, you know, a horse of a different story when it comes to making an allegation that constitutes removal from office.

但是，你知道，這是一個不同的故事的馬 當涉及到作出指控 構成罷免辦公室。

Do you believe then that he didn't incite violence?

那你相信他沒有煽動暴力嗎？

And do you believe that there was no incitement to insurrection against the United States?

你認為沒有煽動反美叛亂嗎？

I overturning the democratic result?

我推翻了民主的結果？

Do you believe he didn't do those things?

你相信他沒有做那些事嗎？

Well, he's not responsible for all the crazy things that everybody does.

他不需要為所有人的瘋狂行為負責

And he has a First Amendment defense and also a factual defense that, you know, his words should not have been taken literally.

他有一個第一修正案的防守 和一個事實的防守，你知道， 他的話不應該被採取字面意思。

I understand how people can come to the conclusion in context that when he said those words, he sent some kind of a signal two crazy people to do things that would constitute actual violence against the United States.

我理解人們如何在上下文中得出結論，即當他說這些話時，他發出了某種信號，讓兩個瘋子做出對美國構成實際暴力的事情。

But it's another thing to say that that was what the president's intent was.

但如果說這就是總統的意圖是另一回事。

Look, I'm not defending the comments, but you're talking about whether or not that that impeachment article is sufficient to remove a president from off.

聽著，我不是在為這些評論辯護，但你說的是彈劾條款是否足以將總統從關。

Sorry, I'm just before the end of his term.

對不起，我只是在他任期結束前。

I'm just asking for the logic in that because it sounds pretty weak to me that no incitement to violence would ever be taken seriously, because you could always say that Politicians speaking hyperbole.

我只是想問一下其中的邏輯，因為在我聽來很弱，沒有煽動暴力的行為會被當真，因為你總可以說政客說的是誇張。

You could always say it's a way of speaking.

你總可以說這是一種說話的方式。

But freedom of speech doesn't equal freedom of consequence.

但言論自由不等於後果自由。

On if people follow your words when you say you have to show strength or when your attorney says trial by combat, or when you suggest that something has to happen to Mike Pence on, then people go in with a gallows talking about hanging him.

在如果人們按照你的話，當你說你必須表現出實力，或者當你的律師說戰鬥審判，或者當你建議必鬚髮生一些事情邁克-彭斯上，那麼人們就會用一個絞刑架去談論懸掛他。

Surely you have tow, see the consequences off your words.

你肯定有拖，看到你的話的後果。

Well, look, you know, and again if if you're right about that and that that should be distinguished from any, uh, comment that a politician or a president ever makes, which is which subject every president potentially to prosecution for incitement of violence, then find prosecute the president after he leaves office.

好吧，你看，你知道，再次 如果你是對的，這應該是 區別於任何，呃，評論 一個政治家或總統曾經作出， 這是使每個總統 潛在的起訴 煽動暴力，

But you know, we're talking about an impeachment here that is being brought at the earliest, which would be one week, which is Wednesday, one week before President Trump leaves office in a new administration takes office.

但是你知道，我們這裡說的彈劾案，最早是在一週內提出來的，也就是週三，在特朗普總統離任前一週，在新政府上任前提出來的。

And it seems to me a decidedly different thing to say that that would be something that's in the country's best interest.

而在我看來，如果說這是符合國家利益的事情，那絕對是兩碼事。

Frankly, everybody deep breath.

坦白說，大家深呼吸。

Everybody should just take a deep breath and relax well and allowing administration to come into office.

大家都應該深呼吸，好好放鬆，讓行政上任。

Yeah, it's easier to take a deep breath and relax if you're not looking at a man who still has the nuclear codes.

是啊，如果你不是在看一個還掌握著核密碼的人，就更容易深呼吸，放鬆。

If you're not looking at the fact that his Homeland Security chief just resigned tonight.

如果你不考慮到他的國土安全局局長今晚剛辭職的事實的話

Chad Wolf.

查德-沃爾夫。

So you've presumably got nobody in charge of that.

所以你大概沒有人負責這個。

If you could relax in the face of an FBI, that's not true.

如果面對FBI你能放鬆，那就不對了。

There's not nobody in charge, Okay, so let's not exaggerate here.

並不是沒有人管，好吧，這裡就不誇張了。

Well, the FBI have said they're expecting Walter and functions and functions just fine, and the president doesn't order things with nuclear codes on his own.

聯邦調查局說他們在等沃特 Well, the FBI have said they're expecting Walter 職能和功能都很好 and functions and functions just fine, 總統不會自己下令使用核密碼 and the president doesn't order things with nuclear codes on his own.

There's a whole bunch of procedures that are in place with the United States military and the Department of Defense before that would ever happen.

美國軍方和國防部有一大堆程序，才會發生這種情況。

So before everybody rushes to the ramparts here to say that you know, disaster is imminent, just understand that there are all kinds of protections involved to ensure that something like what you're talking about never happened last week because you know that the FBI has warned having that the FBI has warned that those are two different things.

所以，在每個人都衝到城牆上說你知道，災難迫在眉睫之前，你要明白，有各種各樣的保護措施，以確保像你所說的事情永遠不會發生在上週，因為你知道，聯邦調查局已經警告說，聯邦調查局已經警告說，這是兩件不同的事情。

Okay, you're talking about the action of the United States government to enter into a nuclear war.

好吧，你說的是美國政府進入核戰爭的行動。

And you're trying to suggest that that's just a likely is having people take the capital of the United States by violence.

而你想說的是，這只是一個可能的是讓人們通過暴力奪取美國首都。

I'm not.

我沒有

Don't put words in my mouth.

不要把話放在我嘴裡。

All I'm saying is this man, this man who has managed to get a crowd even if he didn't mean to to go to the capital to raise it, to steal, to leave people dead.

我想說的是這個人，這個人即使不是故意去京城籌錢，去偷東西，去置人於死地，也能讓人趨之若鶩。

What he means that I can't hear.

他是什麼意思，我聽不懂。

I'm so sorry.

我很抱歉

We've lost your sound.

我們已經失去了你的聲音。

I'll come back to you, Robert.

我再來找你，羅伯特。

Let me just go, Thio.

讓我去吧，Thio.

Barbara Lee.

芭芭拉-李

I guess the question is, if they can use the First Amendment to say that he didn't really mean any of that stuff.

我想問題是，如果他們能用第一修正案說，他並沒有真正的意思，這些東西。

People took him seriously.

人們把他當回事。

It was their fault.

都是他們的錯。

Then that could be a legal challenge, Which, which is a strong defense, Barbara Lee.

那麼，這可能是一個法律挑戰，這，這是一個強大的防禦，芭芭拉-李。

Well, first of all, you can't breathe.

好吧，首先，你不能呼吸。

Take a deep breath and chill.

深吸一口氣，寒氣逼人。

This coupe attempt was, uh, actually, uh, propelled into action by the president of the United States.

這場政變的企圖是，呃，實際上，呃，由美國總統推動的行動。

Uh, he clearly, through his words and his deeds over, and this didn't just start.

呃，他顯然，通過他的言行過，這並不是剛開始。

I mean, over the years, he's been inciting all of this, uh, anger and hostile behavior by his followers.

我的意思是，多年來，他一直在煽動這一切， 呃，憤怒和敵意的行為由他的追隨者。

The 14th Amendment is clear on consequences for inciting in insurrection.

第14條修正案明確規定了煽動叛亂的後果。

Also, abuse of power there Plenty of legal and constitutional, uh, foundation or basis for articles of impeachment.

還有，濫用權力，有很多法律和憲法，呃，彈劾條款的基礎或依據。

But if you ask me, he should resign.

但如果你問我，他應該辭職。

I mean, that he is a clear and present danger, and he's a security threat.

我的意思是，他是一個明確的和當前的危險， 他是一個安全威脅。

And if he won't resign, then vice President Pence should step up and allow the 25th Amendment to kick in with respect.

如果他不肯辭職，那麼副總統彭斯就應該出面，讓第25條修正案以尊重的態度生效。

That would be great for the Democrats.

這對民主黨人來說是很好的。

But neither of those things are gonna happen.

但這兩件事都不會發生。

So let me put Roberts points to you.

所以讓我把羅伯茨的觀點告訴你。

Which is what is this Impeachment actually for you.

這就是這個彈劾其實對你來說是什麼。

Don't think he's going to start a nuclear war in 10 days.

別以為他10天后就會發動核戰爭。

It is it to stop him from ever taking federal office again or is unfinished business.

是為了阻止他再擔任聯邦職務，還是未完成的任務。

What are you trying to?

你想做什麼？

First of all, you have to hold the head of state, the commander in chief accountable.

首先，你要追究國家元首、統帥的責任。

There was an attack, violent attack and attempted coup on the people of this country at the Capitol, on our leadership on members of Congress and unfortunately, many of our police officers who were overwhelmed.

在國會大廈發生了一起襲擊、暴力襲擊和未遂政變，襲擊對象是這個國家的人民，襲擊對象是我們的領導層，襲擊對象是國會議員，不幸的是，襲擊對象是我們許多被淹沒的警察。

Onda had Thio fight on almost a war, especially the African American police officers who were at the mercy of many of these, uh, terrorists.

Onda讓Thio打上幾乎是一場戰爭，特別是非洲裔美國警察，他們在許多這些，呃，恐怖分子的擺佈下。

And this was a act of domestic terrorism.

而這是國內恐怖主義的行為。

You cannot let any president get away with that.

你不能讓任何一個總統逍遙法外。

Also, we cannot allow a president to be said.

同時，我們也不能讓一個總統被說。

I don't care if it's one day before that allows for future presidents to see that this is okay, Thio to incite violence, to give orders to get to the capital.

我不管它是一天前，讓未來的總統看到，這是好的，Thio煽動暴力，下命令到首都。

I mean, his words were very clear and the actions were very clear, and there's a direct correlation between his words and his actions.

我的意思是，他的話很清楚，行動也很清楚，他的話和他的行動之間有直接的關聯。

Finally, let me just say many of the Republicans who accepted the lies.

最後，我只想說許多接受謊言的共和黨人。

And, of course, this, uh, attempted coup is based on the lies of the election.

當然，這個，呃，企圖的政變是基於選舉的謊言。

We know the election was fair and three, and that there have been many court challenges and every court challenge was overturned and was not ruled in Donald Trump's favor.

我們知道選舉是公平的，三，有許多法庭挑戰，每一個法庭挑戰都被推翻，並沒有裁定唐納德-特朗普的利益。

And yet you have over 100 members of the House still trying to decertify the elections, to take away the boats of the people, and that's outrageous, and they need to be held accountable.

然而你有超過100名眾議員仍然試圖取消選舉的認證，奪走人民的船，這是令人憤怒的，他們需要被追究責任。

Also, Robert Rate does raise a really serious question of whether the Republican Party actually understand how serious this was.

另外，羅伯特-費率也確實提出了一個非常嚴肅的問題，即共和黨是否真的明白這有多嚴重。

Can I ask you, will you serve or would you serve on his legal defense team again if you face impeachment?

我可以問你，如果你面臨彈劾，你會不會再為他的法律辯護團隊服務，或者說你會不會再為他服務？

Well, that's a hypothetical question.

嗯，這是一個假設性的問題。

We haven't gotten there, and I don't answer hypothetical questions, particularly in view of the fact that I represented the president in the first impeachment.

我們還沒到那一步，我不回答假設性的問題，尤其是考慮到我在第一次彈劾中代表總統的事實。

But I will say that the 25th Amendment route, I think, is an empty ultimatum, uh, not the least of which, because it requires a presidential disability.

但我想說的是，第25條修正案的路線，我認為是一個空洞的最後通牒，呃，其中最重要的一點是，因為它需要總統的殘疾。

And that's not what this situation was not intended to be covered by that I understand that the Democrats want to proceed down the road of impeachment.

而這並不是這種情況所要涵蓋的內容，我理解民主黨人想繼續走彈劾的道路。

Um, in the event that the 25th Amendment is not invoked?

嗯，在沒有援引第25條修正案的情況下？

Um, I think that Jim Clyburn has it about right.

嗯，我覺得吉姆-克萊本說的差不多了。

Maybe the best course here, if you want to sanction the president's conduct, is to have an impeachment and just let its, uh, you know, stand at that and not send it on to the United States Senate.

如果你想制裁總統的行為 也許最好的辦法就是進行彈劾 讓它，呃，你知道，就這樣，而不是送到美國參議院去

I'm also inclined to agree with David Kendall, who represented President Clinton during the Clinton impeachment, to the effect that the most appropriate sanction that is achievable now by both the House and the Senate is for there to be a censure resolution, which I think would enjoy bipartisan support by both Democrats and Republicans.

我也傾向於同意在克林頓彈劾案中代表克林頓總統的戴維-肯德爾的觀點，即眾議院和參議院現在可以採取的最適當的制裁措施是通過一項譴責決議，我認為這將得到民主黨和共和黨兩黨的支持。

I think it's achievable.

我認為這是可以實現的。

I think it's something that sends a strong signal, which is what the congresswoman suggested needed to be sent, sent.

我認為這是一種發出強烈信號的東西，這也是女議員建議需要發出的，發出的。

And I agree with Robert.

我同意羅伯特的說法。

Just let me ask you something that I think that's something that both sides would agree on.

只是讓我問你一件事，我想這是雙方都會同意的。

You've answered funny enough, a lot of hypothetical questions there, whether it's about you know, Amendment 25 or the First Amendment, how you use it so Can I just ask you again?

你已經回答了很多有趣的問題，很多假設性的問題，不管是關於你知道的，25號修正案還是第一修正案，你如何使用它，所以我可以再問你一次嗎？

If you were asked to serve Thio be on his defense team, would you say yes?

如果讓你為Thio服務，成為他的防守團隊，你會答應嗎？

Well, that again, that's something subject to attorney client privilege.

好吧，這又是受制於律師客戶特權的東西。

And that is a hypothetical question.

而這是一個假設性的問題。

These other things are not hypothetical.

這些其他的東西都不是假設的。

They are, in fact, what's going to happen.

事實上，它們就是將要發生的事情。

Um, you wanna ask me?

嗯，你想問我嗎？

In the event that actually an impeachment article is returned on Wednesday?

在週三真的有彈劾文章被退回的情況下？

I'm happy to answer that question, but not now.

我很樂意回答這個問題，但不是現在。

Thank you.

謝謝你了

We'd love to see you back.

我們很想看到你回來。

Both of you.

你們兩個都是

Thanks for doing very much.

謝謝你做的非常多。