Boris Johnson tomorrow will publish his judgment into the conduct of Pretty Patel after the fact finding report by the Cabinet office and a subsequent assessment by Sir Alex Allen, who is the prime minister's adviser on ministers.

鮑里斯-約翰遜明天將在內閣辦公室的事實調查報告和首相的部長顧問亞歷克斯-艾倫爵士的後續評估之後，公佈他對帕特爾漂亮的行為的判斷。

Interests on the BBC, as you were saying, has been told that Sir Alex says that the Home secretary had not met the requirements of the ministerial code to treat civil servants with consideration on respect.

英國廣播公司的利益，正如你所說的，已經被告知，亞歷克斯爵士說，內政大臣沒有達到部長守則的要求，對待公務員的尊重考慮。

He also suggests that there may have been an unintentional breach off the ministerial code by pretty Patel.

他還表示，可能是漂亮的帕特爾無意中違反了部長守則。

Now here is a key passage by Sir Alex Allen.

下面是亞歷克斯-艾倫爵士的一段重要講話。

He says her behavior may not have Bean undone intentionally to cause upset, but that has bean the effect on some individuals.

他說，她的行為可能並沒有豆解故意引起不快，但這對某些人有豆的影響。

Now, if we want to know which way Boris Johnson will jump tomorrow on the future off Pretty Patel, we should probably look at what he had to say after Sir Philip Rutman resigned as Home Office permanent secretary back in February when he talked about a culture of fear in the home office.

現在，如果我們想知道鮑里斯-約翰遜明天會以哪種方式跳到未來關閉Pretty Patel，我們可能應該看看他在菲利普-魯特曼爵士在2月份辭去內政部常任祕書後說了什麼，當時他談到了內政部的恐懼文化。

The Home secretary is doing an outstanding job.

居委會書記的工作做得很出色。

I have every I have every confidence in her.

我對她充滿了信心。

If there are allegations Of course it is right that they should be properly investigated by the Cabinet office, and that is what is happening now.

如果有指控，當然應該由內閣辦公室進行適當的調查，這就是現在的情況。

Obviously, it was so Phillips a statement and his resignation that prompted this inquiry, and he raised questions about Pretty Patel's conduct.

很顯然，正是這麼菲利普斯的一份聲明和他的辭職，促使了這次調查，他對帕特爾漂亮的行為提出了質疑。

Now, interestingly, in his assessment, Sir Alex Allen says the civil service needs to reflect on its role.

現在，有趣的是，亞歷克斯-艾倫爵士在他的評估中說，公務員隊伍需要反思自己的角色。

So he says that the Home Office had not Bean as flexible as it could have Bean in response to the home secretary's requests and directions.

所以他說，內政部在迴應內政大臣的要求和訓示時，並沒有憨態可掬。

And he says she has legitimately not always felt supported by the department.

而他說，她合法的並沒有一直覺得得到部門的支持。

And then he says this.

然後他說：

No feedback was given to the home secretary off the impact of her behavior, which meant that she was unaware of issues that she could otherwise have addressed.

沒有向家庭祕書反饋她的行為所造成的影響，這意味著她沒有意識到本來可以解決的問題。

The Home secretary has also become justifiably in many instances, he said.

他說，內政部長在很多情況下也變得理直氣壯。

Frustrated by the Home Office is leaderships lack of responsiveness on the lack of support she felt in the Department for International Development three years ago, and there's a strong view amongst allies off the home secretary that it's the civil service that should be apologizing to her tomorrow.

內政部感到沮喪的是領導層對三年前她在國際發展部感受到的缺乏支持缺乏迴應，並且有一個強烈的觀點在盟友中關閉內政部長，這是公務員制度，應該向她道歉的明天。

Why is it all happening now Well for months, Number 10 has been saying that this report in this process has bean ongoing.

為什麼現在才發生呢？ 幾個月來，10號一直在說，這個過程中的報告一直在進行。

On this this week, Lord said.

關於本週，主說。

Well, who is the former Cabinet secretary?

那麼，前內閣總理大臣是誰？

He said that the findings are now with the prime minister.

他說，調查結果現在已經交給總理。

So what that meant is that had come almost to the final stage of what is a three stage process.

所以，這意味著，幾乎已經到了三階段過程的最後階段。

So Stage one is there's a fact finding mission by the Cabinet office.

所以第一階段是內閣辦公室有一個事實調查團。

Stage two is the prime Minister consults Sir Alex Allen on, then stays three.

第二階段是首相諮詢亞歷克斯-艾倫爵士的意見，然後留三。

Tomorrow the prime minister comes to a view.

明天總理來查看。

Now I understand that there has been an absolutely almighty standoff between number 10 on senior civil servants because they felt that this report raised very serious questions about her behavior behavior, which they say, really has no place in the modern workplace.

現在我知道，已經有一個絕對全能的對峙10號之間的高級公務員，因為他們認為，這份報告提出了非常嚴重的問題，關於她的行為舉止，他們說，這真的沒有在現代工作場所。

Pretty, Patel says.

帕特爾說，漂亮。

Oh, no, no.

哦，不，不。

This raises big questions about the behavior off senior civil servants.

這對高級公務員的行為提出了很大的疑問。

I do have to say I detect no pressure on the Tory backbenches for pretty Patel to go.

我不得不說，我檢測到保守黨後座沒有壓力，漂亮的帕特爾要走了。

The sort of words I'm hearing is why remove a robust home secretary at a time like this?

我聽到的那種話是，為什麼要在這種時候撤掉一個健壯的內政部長？

Nick, Thanks very much indeed.

尼克，真的非常感謝你。

When I have to discuss this further.

當我要進一步討論這個問題時。

I'm joined in the studio by Dave Penman of the FDA Union, which represents civil servants, senior civil servants from south London by the Korean MP, and we will come to her in a moment.

我在演播室裡請到了林業局聯盟的戴夫-彭曼，該聯盟代表公務員，韓國議員代表倫敦南部的高級公務員，我們一會兒會來找她。

But first of all, let's talk also to Deanna Davidson, who represents the South London constituency and home affairs, and from Halifax, where Labour's Shadow minister of immigration Holly Lynch, Let's come to you first off all Dave Penman, What do you make of unintentional bullying?

但首先，讓我們也來談談代表南倫敦選區和內政的Deanna Davidson，以及來自哈利法克斯的工黨影子移民部長Holly Lynch，讓我們先來談談Dave Penman，你怎麼看待無意中的欺凌？

And, well, it seems like the prime minister's no decided that despite what it says, the ministerial code buildings okay, as long as it's in our limited and specific way.

而且，好吧，似乎總理的沒有決定，儘管它說，部長代碼的建築物沒關係，只要它是在我們有限的和具體的方式。

F f f is true that the report has found that she has breached the ministerial code.

F f f是真的，報告認為她違反了部長守則。

Then the president is quite clear.

那總裁就很清楚了。

The last time she brought the ministerial code, it seems extraordinary.

上次她帶著部長守則，看來非同一般。

Even saying that that wasn't about bowling, she recognized that she had to design, so it would appear that there's there's one rule when it comes to consulting foreign countries on foreign policy is a narrow when it comes to the building civil servants.

即使說那不是為了保齡球，她也承認自己必須要設計，所以，在諮詢外國的外交政策時，似乎有一個規則，就是在建設公務員的時候，是一個狹隘的。

But does this chime with what your members air telling you.

但這是否與你的會員告訴你的情況一致呢？

Well, I think Sir Philip and his resignation speech live on air indicated that he had raised concerns about the behavior off the home secretary on it was raising those concerns that actually caused the briefing against the Philippine.

好吧，我想菲利普爵士和他的辭職演講現場直播表示，他提出了關注的行為關閉內政大臣對它提出了這些關注，實際上導致對菲律賓的簡報。

Caused ultimately has resignation.

引起最終有辭職。

So it seems rather extraordinary for to hear that report talking about, it's all Kim's a surprise to the home secretary, but we've spoken to a civil servant who really enjoyed working with it, and you also have neck what they're in the report there was frustration with civil servants working in the home office, but frustration around performance of individuals is very different from building.

是以，它似乎相當不尋常的為聽到該報告談論，這是所有金的一個驚喜的內政部長，但我們已經談過一個公務員誰真的很喜歡與它合作，你也有頸部他們在報告中有什麼挫折與公務員在內政部工作，但挫折圍繞個人的表現是非常不同的建設。

Anyone in a workplace know that they have to deal with colleagues who you may be frustrated about that maybe issues legitimate issues and kids sounds rates that's very different from building an attempt days of behavior.

任何在工作場所的人都知道，他們必須處理的同事，你可能會感到沮喪，也許問題合法的問題和孩子們的聲音率，這是非常不同的建立一個嘗試天的行為。

And if the report has found that she breached the ministerial code, what is the message from the prime minister About ministers who do this says that the only be civil servants can challenge ministerial behavior.

如果報告發現她違反了部長守則，總理的資訊是什麼 關於部長誰做這個說，唯一是公務員可以挑戰部長的行為。

Deanna Davison, you know, pretty Patel issue workplace bully.

迪安娜-戴維森，你知道的，漂亮的帕特爾問題職場霸主。

Well, I should just start cursing by saying, My constituency is the Northeast, not in South London, but you know my experience off.

好吧，我應該先罵一句，我的選區是東北區，不在南倫敦，但你知道我的經歷。

Knowing Pretty since I got elected back in December is of someone who is incredibly kind, incredibly courteous, incredibly generous with her time.

自從我12月當選後，對漂亮的認識是一個非常善良、非常有禮貌、非常慷慨的人。

You know, I've lost count now of the number of times she's found time in her incredibly hectic diary to sit down with me.

你知道嗎，我已經數不清有多少次了 她在她那令人難以置信的忙碌的日記中抽出時間來和我坐下來。

Let's talk about either constituency matters or just to check up on how I'm doing offer advice of me being a new MP Andi, even to offer me some support when I was getting an awful lot of abuse on social media, which is something that I know she's had to deal with in the past.

讓我們來談談選區的事情，或者只是為了檢查我做得怎麼樣提供建議我是一個新的國會議員Andi，甚至給我一些支持，當我在社交媒體上得到一個可怕的很多虐待，這是我知道她過去不得不處理的事情。

But you are not working for her.

但你不是為她工作。

Civil servants worked for her.

公務員為她工作。

Is it possible that she could be an unintentional bully?

難道她會是一個無意中被欺負的人？

Well, I'm not going to speculate on that.

好吧，我不會去猜測這個問題。

I think you know that.

我想你是知道的

That just seems a ridiculous thing for you to ask me to be honest.

說實話，你問我這個問題似乎很可笑。

Scarcity.

稀缺性。

What?

什麼？

When you worked with her, though?

當你和她一起工作時，雖然？

What?

什麼？

Have you seen Holly Lynch?

你見過霍莉-林奇嗎？

Well, I think these air incredibly serious allegations that we're hearing this evening.

好吧，我認為這些空氣令人難以置信的嚴重指控 我們聽到今天晚上。

I think Teoh be able to answer Deanna's points?

我想Teoh能回答Deanna的觀點嗎？

I think it would help everybody.

我想這對大家都有幫助。

If the investigation was published in full.

如果調查報告全文公佈。

There would be those differences in power dynamics between Diana and other conservative MPs.

會有那些戴安娜和其他保守派議員之間的權力動態差異。

Then the would be between the home secretary and her civil servants.

那麼，這將是內政部長和她的公務員之間。

We need to have this report published in full give it the transplant.

我們需要把這份報告完整地發表出來，給它移植。

So that is what happens with these reports.

所以，這些報道就是這樣的。

Yeah, but this is not traditionally what happens with these reports.

是的，但這不是傳統的這些報告的情況。

I mean, you, you know, it's a very tough job being a minister, you know, you know, because you're a shadow immigration, you know that.

我的意思是，你，你知道，這是一個非常艱難的工作 作為一個部長，你知道，你知道，你知道， 因為你是一個影子移民，你知道。

It's under a great deal of pressure.

它的壓力很大。

Things have to get done.

事情必須要做。

Perhaps simply pretty.

或許只是單純的漂亮。

Patel is just being a robust home secretary.

帕特爾只是在做一個健壯的內政部長。

These are incredibly high pressure jobs, but I think the civil servants are looking France's this evening.

這些都是令人難以置信的高壓工作，但我認為公務員們在尋找法國的今天晚上。

That they can have faith in the process is that they are respected and these are really serious allegations that we're hearing.

他們能對這個過程有信心，就是他們受到了尊重，這些都是我們聽到的非常嚴重的指控。

We do need some assurances that our processes in place, that any allegations of bullying within the civil service in any workplace have taken incredibly seriously.

我們確實需要一些保證，即我們的程序已經到位，任何關於公務員在任何工作場所的欺凌行為的指控都會得到非常嚴肅的對待。

But I also think there are questions for the prime minister's answer about his judgment in this.

但我也認為，總理在這個問題上的判斷，有問題需要總理回答。

We understand that he's had this investigation, this report on his desk since the summer.

我們瞭解到他從夏天開始就有這個調查，這個報告在他的桌子上。

So why the delay?

那麼，為什麼要延遲呢？

Unfortunately, it's marks and as the hallmarks of a cover up, we need to see this investigation in full.

不幸的是，它的標誌和作為掩蓋的標誌，我們需要看到這個調查的全部內容。

And only then will we have confidence in the that.

也只有這樣，我們才會對那個有信心。

All of the right questions have been asked.

所有正確的問題都已經問過了。

Donna Davis, And what do you make of that?

唐娜-戴維斯，你怎麼看？

Well, I think you know, calling this a cover up is absolute nonsense.

好吧，我想你知道，說這是掩蓋事實是絕對的無稽之談。

You said the prime minister is is gonna be publishing that report tomorrow.

你說過總理明天就會公佈那份報告。

But what we need to remember is this investigation started in February.

但我們需要記住的是，這項調查是在2月份開始的。

What has happened since February is that we've been hit with a global pandemic.

2月以來發生的事情是，我們遭遇了一場全球性的大流行。

It has been all hands on deck to try and tackle that to try and protect lives, to keep people safe, to keep our economy and our society moving.

我們一直在全力以赴地試圖解決這個問題，試圖保護生命，保證人民的安全，保持我們的經濟和社會的發展。

So it's no wonder that something along these lines has been delayed, more so than anyone would have liked it to have been, because the government has been a little bit preoccupied in governing something that's almost ungovernable.

所以也難怪，這樣的事情遲遲沒有下文，比誰都希望，因為政府在治理一些幾乎無法治理的事情上，一直有點心不在焉。

To be fair, the business of government has to go on pandemic or not, we understand this report was ready months ago.

平心而論，政府的事情不管是不是大流行，都要進行下去，據我們瞭解，這份報告幾個月前就已經準備好了。

Well, as I said, if it's gonna be published tomorrow, we'll wait and see what the report says.

好吧，正如我所說的，如果它是要去 明天公佈，我們將等待，看看報告說什麼。

Well, it's not going to be published for Dave Penman.

好吧，這不會被戴夫-潘曼公佈。

We know that the government wants to shake up the civil service that was in its manifesto and actually in the report, pretty Patel herself, apparently in the report, it says that she has faced challenging behavior.

我們知道，政府想要動搖公務員制度，這是在其宣言中，實際上在報告中，漂亮的帕特爾自己，顯然在報告中，它說她已經面臨挑戰行為。

Well, if that's the case and civil service, then there are ways for ministers.

好吧，如果是這樣，公務員制度，那麼大臣們也有辦法。

Thio deal with that.

Thio處理。

This isn't about nothing.

這不是什麼都沒有。

It really doesn't help a discussion about what police behavior.

這對討論什麼警察行為真的沒有任何幫助。

When we talk about challenging issues like performance, because there are reason means of doing that, building is a form of abuse of power.

當我們談及業績等挑戰問題時，因為有合理的手段，建設是一種濫用權力的形式。

There's a very different relationship between a backbench MP and a minister on a civil servant.

後座議員和公務員中的部長之間的關係非常不同。

It's tough.

這是很難的。

Working in government from ministers is also tough working government for civil servants.

從部長到政府工作，對於公務員來說，工作政府也是很辛苦的。

Do you accept that perhaps some silver servants do produce challenging behavior?

你是否接受或許有些銀色僕人確實會產生挑戰行為？

Of course, every workplace has that, and so do ministers is there is There is a question interpretation, isn't it?

當然，每個職場都有，部下也是有的，就是有一個問題解釋，不是嗎？

Because what is challenging and what is bullying?

因為什麼是挑戰，什麼是霸道？

That is a question of interpretation and that question interpretation on both sides, of course.

這當然是一個解釋的問題，這個問題雙方的解釋。

And what's quite clear is the ministerial code, and the process we've got just now is not an appropriate way for dealing with us.

而且很清楚的是，部長守則，以及我們剛才的程序，並不是處理我們的合適方式。

Nine months on the report won't be published.

9個月了，報告不會公佈。

You have from the extract a lead on the prime minister when this report this investigation was launched pledged his allegiance to pretty Patel, and yet he's the only one who is the arbiter of this.

你從摘錄的內容中找到了一條線索 當這個報告這個調查啟動的時候 首相向漂亮的帕特爾宣誓效忠 但只有他一個人是這件事的仲裁者。

The pages allegiance to pretty bitter, but he said he would wait to see how the allegations panned out.

頁面效忠相當苦澀，但他說他會等著看指控是如何平息的。

To be absolutely clear.

要絕對清楚：

It was.

它是。

But nine months later, the report sitting on his desk for three months with a report that would appear to say that she has breached the ministerial code and yet potentially no sanction.

但9個月後，這份報告在他的辦公桌上坐了3個月，報告中似乎說她違反了部長守則，但卻可能沒有制裁。

What does he think several servants are going to think about that about this process And his minister for the civil service is Well, uh, let's just ask one question about this delayed because we're in a situation now.

他認為幾位公務員對這個過程會有什麼看法，他的公務員部長是 嗯，呃，我們只問一個問題，這個延遲，因為我們現在的情況。

Deanna, where we have this report, we won't be published.

迪安娜，我們有這份報告的地方，我們不會公佈。

We're going to hear for what the prime minister says tomorrow and we're no further forward is to actually what's going to happen to Pretty Patel tonight.

我們將聽到為總理明天說什麼，我們沒有進一步的進展是，實際上今晚會發生什麼漂亮的帕特爾。

We don't know if she's going to be reprimanded.

我們不知道她是否會被訓斥。

We don't know if she's going to be entirely exonerated by the prime minister.

我們不知道她是否會被總理完全免罪。

It's damaging, isn't it?

這很傷人，不是嗎？

For the government?

為政府服務？

Well, I don't think it is damaging us all.

我不認為這對我們所有人都有傷害。

We'll hear from the prime minister tomorrow on.

明天我們會聽到總理的講話。

The fact of the matter is, you have to look at what it is that the Home Secretary is delivering an incredibly tough circumstances.

事實上，你必須看看內政大臣在極其艱難的情況下所做的事情。

You know, people in my constituency.

你知道，我選區的人。

So she's doing an absolutely exceptional job introducing measures to tackle crime, tough measures on immigration, which, after all, is what people voted for back in December.

是以，她的工作絕對是非常出色的，她推出了打擊犯罪的措施，對移民採取了嚴厲的措施，畢竟，這也是人們在12月投票支持的。

She's a tough woman tackling a tough job.

她是一個堅強的女人，處理一個艱難的工作。

She has my face more broadly, though more broadly, do you think more broadly?

她有我的臉，雖然比較寬泛，但你覺得比較寬泛嗎？

Do you think that there might indeed be the case that there is a culture of bullying in the government?

你認為是否真的可能存在官場霸道文化的情況？

Well, you're asking me to speculate, Kirsty, I'm not going to speculate on a report that we haven't seen yet.

你讓我去猜測，Kirsty，我不會去猜測一份我們還沒有看到的報告。

I'm not actually talking about the report.

其實我不是在說報告。

I'm talking about more broadly the atmosphere.

我說的是更廣泛的氛圍。

Do you think that there could be a culture of bullying?

你覺得會不會有欺凌文化？

I don't You don't dependent if tomorrow the judgment is made either to exonerate or indeed to censure, but certainly not that pretty Patel should lose her job.

我不 你不取決於明天的判決是無罪還是確實是譴責，但肯定不是說漂亮的帕特爾應該丟掉工作。

Do you accept that this has to be the end of it?

你接受這必須是它的結束嗎？

Because that is indeed what usually happens with these things that a line is drawn under them.

因為這確實是這些事情通常會發生的情況，在它們下面劃了一條線。

Of course, it's down to the prime minister.

當然，這要看總理的意思。

That's that's where the problem lies with us.

這就是我們的問題所在。

The prime minister is always going to make a political decision on this.

總理總是要對此作出政治決定。

That's always going to be the issue.

這永遠是個問題。

He faces the pressure from the back benches talked about earlier on no appetite to deal with us.

他面對前面談到的來自後腰板凳的壓力，沒有胃口和我們打交道。

That's not what they should be about should be about the facts.

這不是他們應該做的事情應該是關於事實。

That's why we need an independent and transparent process.

這就是為什麼我們需要一個獨立和透明的過程。