- Part of the job description was,

- 職務說明的一部分是：

"You will be part of a team

"你將成為一個團隊的一員

"that protects free speech online,"

"保護網上言論自由的"

which makes it seem very heroic.

這讓它看起來非常英雄。

It felt like you were putting on a cape working at Google.

這感覺就像你在谷歌工作時穿上了一件披風。

- Over the past year, I've been reporting on the lives

- 在過去的一年裡，我一直在報道生活中。

of Facebook's content moderators in America

在美國的Facebook內容版主中

and they've told me about their low pay,

他們已經告訴我他們的低工資。

their dire working conditions and in some cases,

其惡劣的工作條件，在某些情況下，。

the long term mental health consequences

長期的精神健康後果

of doing the work that they do.

的做的工作。

A content moderator is kind of like

內容版主有點像

a police officer for the internet.

互聯網的警察。

If you ever see something that you think

如果你看到的東西，你認為

doesn't belong on a site and you report it,

不屬於一個網站，你報告它。

that report is gonna be reviewed by a human being.

該報告是要去審查 由一個人。

While a lot of what they see is really benign,

雖然他們看到的很多東西是真的良性的。

like spam, for example, some of it's really disturbing.

比如說，像垃圾郵件，有些真的很令人不安。

I'm talking about murder, terrorism and child exploitation.

我說的是謀殺，恐怖主義和剝削兒童。

Recently, I started seeing out people who did

最近，我開始看到外面的人誰做

this kind of work for Google and YouTube.

谷歌和YouTube的這種工作。

I wanted to see how their experiences compared

我想看看他們的經驗如何比較

to the ones I had heard about already.

到那些我已經聽說過的。

What I did learn surprised me.

我學到的東西讓我很驚訝。

(dramatic music)

咍

- Part of doing our job and how they would make

- 做我們工作的一部分，他們會如何讓。

us feel better about it was that,

我們感覺更好的是，。

"You guys see this so other people don't have to see this."

"你們看到這個，別人就不用看到這個了。"

(dramatic music)

咍

- Over the course of my reporting,

- 在我的報道過程中。

I talked to both people who worked at Google full time

我和兩個在谷歌全職工作的人都聊過。

and people who had been hired

和被僱傭的人

on through third-party contractors.

通過第三方承包商進行。

It became clear to me that no matter who hired you,

我很清楚，不管是誰僱傭了你。

doing this job over a long enough time period

久久為功

can cause significant mental health consequences.

會造成嚴重的心理健康後果。

But it also became clear to me that there is

但我也清楚地認識到，有。

a big difference in how Google employees get treated

谷歌員工待遇大不同

and how those third-party contractors get treated.

以及這些第三方承包商的待遇。

Today, a former full-time Google employee

今天，一位前谷歌全職員工

named Daisy Soderberg-Rivken is going on the record

名為Daisy Soderberg-Rivken的人要去記錄

to talk about her experiences as a content moderator.

來談談她作為內容主持人的經驗。

She had access to all the perks and all the benefits

她可以享受所有的待遇和所有的福利。

that come with being a full-time Google employee.

作為谷歌全職員工所帶來的。

But at the end of that day, that didn't save her

但到了最後，這並不能拯救她。

from the consequences of doing the job.

從做工作的後果。

- I was a legal root removals associate,

- 我是一名合法的根除協理。

which is a very fancy way of saying I was

這是一個非常花哨的方式說我是。

a content moderator at Google.

谷歌的一名內容版主。

- Let's talk about what the job actually was.

- 我們來談談這個工作到底是什麼。

You show up, you have your orientation,

你出現了，你有你的定位。

you sit down at your computer, it's time to do your job.

你坐在電腦前，是時候做你的工作了。

What is your job?

你的工作是什麼？

- You usually start your work by going through a queue.

- 你通常通過排隊開始工作。

So you're assigned to a queue based on either

所以，你被分配到一個隊列中，基於以下任一條件

an issue area or a geographic area.

一個問題領域或一個地理區域；

I focused on the French market,

我專注於法國市場。

because my first languages were French and English

因為我的第一語言是法語和英語

and I also worked on our child sexual abuse imagery cases

我也在處理我們的兒童性虐待影像案件。

and our terrorism cases.

和我們的恐怖主義案件。

- And you were working primarily on web search, right?

- 而你的工作主要是網絡搜索，對嗎？

- Yes, we as in-house content moderators,

- 是的，我們作為內部的內容版主。

we would usually handle more high level, complex issues.

我們通常會處理比較高級、複雜的問題。

Certain things that were very high volumes,

某些事情，量非常大。

such as defamation and copyright were typically

誹謗和版權等問題通常都是由政府提供的。

sent over to contractors.

發送給承包商。

They would then escalate to us if it was kind

他們會升級到我們，如果它是一種。

of a gray area, but if it was even a gray area for us,

的灰色地帶，但如果對我們來說，這甚至是一個灰色地帶。

we would then escalate to our council.

然後，我們會升級到我們的理事會。

It was kind of levels of how specialized we were.

我們的專業性有多強，這是一種水準。

- At what point did you start to feel like you

- 在什麼時候你開始覺得自己...

were seeing more disturbing stuff than you expected?

看到的東西比你想象的更令人不安？

- Very early on.

- 很早的時候。

They said we would be analyzing child sexual abuse imagery

他們說，我們將分析兒童性虐待的形象

but I remember clearly, in parentheses, it said,

但我記得很清楚，括號裡寫著。

this kind of content would be limited to one

這種內容只限於一個

to two hours per week, when in reality,

到每週兩小時，而實際上。

we were understaffed, so we would be in there

我們的人手不足，所以我們會在那裡。

sometimes five, six hours a week,

有時一週5，6個小時。

which sounds like nothing, but it's actually...

聽起來沒什麼，但實際上...

- Oh, it sounds like a lot. - It's a lot.

- 哦，這聽起來像一個很多。- 這是一個很大的。

- Yeah, yeah.

- 是啊，是啊。

When do you first notice that doing this job

你什麼時候開始注意到做這份工作

was starting to affect your mental health?

是開始影響你的心理健康？

- When I was walking around San Francisco, actually,

- 當我在舊金山附近散步時，其實。

and I was with one of my friends and we saw

我和我的一個朋友在一起，我們看到了。

a group of kids, toddlers,

一群孩子，幼兒。

that were hanging on to one of those ropes

掛在那些繩索上的那些東西

so that they don't go far.

以免他們走得太遠。

I looked at them and then, I kind of blinked once,

我看著他們，然後，我算是眨了一次眼睛。

and suddenly, I just had a flash of images

突然間，我突然想到了一些畫面

of some of the images I had seen, children being tied up,

的一些影像，我看到，兒童被捆綁起來。

children being raped, at that age.

兒童被強姦，在這個年齡。

This is three, three years old.

這是三，三年前的事。

I kind of like stopped and I was kind of blinking a lot

我有點像停下來，我有點閃爍了很多。

and my friend had to make sure I was okay

而我的朋友必須確保我的安全

and I had to sit down for a second

我不得不坐下來休息一下

and I just exploded crying.

我只是爆發了哭泣。

She was like, "What just happened?"

她說，"剛才發生了什麼？"

And I couldn't explain it to her and I just,

我無法向她解釋，我只是。

these racing thoughts and then, an instant panic attack.

這些紛繁的思緒，然後，瞬間驚慌失措。

I was having nightmares, I wasn't sleeping,

我做了噩夢，我沒有睡覺。

I had spent multiple days just crying in the bathroom.

我已經花了好幾天的時間，就在衛生間裡哭。

I was having all of these panic attacks.

我有所有這些恐慌症。

My work productivity just dipped.

我的工作效率剛剛下降了。

Finally, my manager was like,

最後，我的經理就像。

"Listen, we really need you

"聽著，我們真的需要你

"to step up your productivity game."

"提高你的工作效率"

I just snapped and I turned to him and I said,

我才猛然一驚，我轉身對他說。

"Do you understand what we're looking at

"你明白我們在看什麼嗎？

"and we're not machines, we're humans.

"我們不是機器，我們是人。

"So we have emotions and those emotions

"所以我們有情感，而這些情感

"are deeply scarred by looking at children

"看著孩子們的傷痕累累

"being raped all the time and people getting

"被強姦所有的時間和人們得到的。

"their heads chopped off."

"他們的頭被砍掉了。"

It was like there was no escape and yeah,

這就像沒有逃脫，是的。

I finally snapped and they took that as,

我終於發話了，他們就當。

oh, she needs to take a second, she needs to breathe.

哦，她需要採取第二， 她需要呼吸。

And I was said, "No, I need to leave."

我說，"不，我需要離開。"

The free food, the nap pods, all these benefits,

免費的食物，午睡艙，這些好處。

this doesn't mean anything if this is,

這並不意味著什麼，如果這是。

if this is my day-to-day.

如果這是我的日常。

- Daisy helped me understand how hard this job is to

- 黛西讓我明白了這份工作有多難。

do even when you work in the greatest office in the world.

即使你在世界上最偉大的辦公室工作，你也會這樣做。

But the truth is that most people don't work

但事實上，大多數人都不工作。

in an office half that nice.

在一個有一半好的辦公室裡。

One of Google's biggest projects that it has

谷歌最大的項目之一，它有。

to moderate, of course, is YouTube.

來調節，當然，是YouTube。

When it comes to YouTube,

說到YouTube。

Google has decided to give most of the work

谷歌已經決定將大部分工作交給

of content moderation to third-party contractors.

將內容管理權交給第三方承包商。

Recently, I went to Austin, Texas, to meet with a group

最近，我去德克薩斯州奧斯汀市，與一群

of moderators who work for Accenture on the YouTube project.

在YouTube項目中為埃森哲工作的版主的。

Specifically, they work on what is called the VE queue.

具體來說，它們的工作原理是所謂的VE隊列。

VE standing for violent extremism.

VE代表暴力極端主義。

120 times a day,

每天120次。

they review YouTube videos that have terrorism,

他們審查YouTube上有恐怖主義的視頻。

graphic violence and other disturbing content.

畫面暴力和其他令人不安的內容。

You're about to hear from one of them

你將會聽到他們中的一個人的聲音。

and we've altered the audio to protect their identity.

為了保護他們的身份，我們改變了音頻。

- [Moderator] So, at the beginning,

- [主持人]所以，在一開始。

they told you to watch some videos.

他們告訴你看一些視頻。

You're going to take some actions.

你要採取一些行動。

You will apply the YouTube polices.

你將應用YouTube的政策。

But you don't feel how this is going to impact you.

但你不覺得這對你有什麼影響。

- In some ways, the content moderators who do this work

- 從某種程度上來說，從事這項工作的內容版主

for Google and YouTube are treated better

谷歌和YouTube的待遇更好

than the ones who work for Facebook.

比那些為Facebook工作的人。

Most prominently, they get two hours of break time each day.

最突出的是，他們每天有兩個小時的休息時間。

Basically, two hours of paid leave in which they

基本上，兩個小時的帶薪休假，其中他們

can recover from the challenges of doing this work.

可以從這項工作的挑戰中恢復過來。

But, most of them aren't able

但是，他們中的大多數人都不能

to take a full two hours a day.

要每天花足兩個小時。

- [Moderator] They're forcing you, micromanaging you

- [主持人]他們強迫你，微觀管理你。

to have to be sitting on the desk five hours and a half.

要在桌子上坐五個半小時。

And if you don't, there is going to be a punishments.

如果你不這樣做，就會有一個懲罰。

The schedules will be changed.

日程表將被改變。

You will be on night shift.

你要上夜班

And this is going to affect my wellness time.

而這是會影響我的健康時間的。

I will never take my three hours.

我永遠不會拿我的三個小時。

(dramatic music)

咍

- [Casey] What kind of things do they

- [凱西]什麼樣的事情，他們做的

do that make life hard?

這讓生活變得艱難嗎？

- [Moderator] They always have complaints about everyone.

- 主持人】他們總是對每個人都有抱怨。

You know, like, I have something on you.

你知道，就像，我有你的東西。

If you make any problems, you know what?

如果你有什麼問題，你知道嗎？

This is the reason that I can fire you.

這就是我可以解僱你的原因。

- [Casey] Right, right.

- 對，對

- [Moderator] One of the things that they always saying

- [主持人]他們常說的一句話就是

is if we miss one agent tomorrow, we get another 10.

是如果我們明天錯過一個特工，我們就會得到另外10個。

- [Casey] So they're constantly reminding you

- 所以他們不斷地提醒你...

how easily you can be replaced?

你怎麼能輕易被取代？

- [Moderator] Yes.

- [主持人]是的。

The problem that's they feel stuck somewhere.

問題是他們覺得自己被困在某個地方了。

They can't leave the work

他們不能離開工作

because they have responsibilities.

因為他們有責任。

He have bills right now he have to pay.

他現在有賬單要付。

- [Casey] So it sounds like people feel kind of trapped.

- 所以聽起來人們覺得自己被困住了 So it sounds like people feel kind of trapped.

- [Moderator] They are.

- [主持人]他們是。

Yeah, that's a good word.

是啊，這是個好詞。

- When I brought all this to Google,

- 當我把這一切帶到谷歌。

the company told me that it takes the health

公司告訴我，它把健康

of its workers very seriously and pointed out

認真對待其工人，並指出

that it offers onsite counseling to both

它為雙方提供現場諮詢

its full-time employees and to its contractors.

其全職僱員和承包商。

I think it's worth pointing out, though,

不過我覺得值得指出的是。

that even though Daisy had access to that onsite counseling,

即使黛西可以獲得現場諮詢，

the counselor she had ultimately told her

她最終告訴她的諮詢師

to go seek outside help and get a therapist.

去尋求外界的幫助，找一個治療師。

Daisy also eventually took medical leave

黛西最後也請了病假

and ultimately got an emotional support animal to help her.

並最終找了一隻情感支持動物來幫助她。

It's a dog named Stella.

是一隻叫斯特拉的狗。

- Hi five.

- 嗨，五。

Found a psychiatrist and I found a therapist.

找到了一個心理醫生，我找到了一個治療師。

The psychiatrist put me on antidepressants.

精神病醫生讓我吃抗抑鬱藥。

I was diagnosed with chronic anxiety and PTSD.

我被診斷出患有慢性焦慮症和創傷後應激障礙。

And then, I started seeing a therapist just to talk

然後，我開始看到一個治療師 只是為了說話。

through these things and she said,

通過這些事情，她說。

"Is legal removals associate anything close

"法律搬運協會是否有任何接近

"to a content moderator?"

"對一個內容管理員？"

And I said, "It is a content moderator."

我說："這是一個內容主持人。"

And she said, "Trust me when I say you are not

她說："相信我，我說你不是。

"the first person that I've seen

"第一人，我已經看到

"with this particular issue."

"與這個特殊問題。"

- It seems like recovering from doing this job

- 好像是做完這個工作就恢復了

has itself been a full time job.

本身就已經是個全職工作。

- Oh, yeah.

- 哦，是的。

Whenever someone talks to me about content moderation,

每當有人和我談起內容節制時。

I say, "I'm a recovering content moderator."

我說："我是一個恢復內容的版主。"

They're like, "Oh, you talk about it like it's,

他們會說："哦，你說的好像。

"it's like alcoholism."

"這就像酗酒。"

And I said, "Well, you never fully recover."

我說，"好吧，你永遠不會完全恢復。"

- One of the things that is so interesting to me

- 其中有一件事讓我很感興趣

about your story is that you are one of the very few people

你的故事是，你是極少數人中的一個。

I've talked to who did content moderation as

我曾和做過內容管理的人聊過，作為

a full time employee of a company, rather than a contractor.

公司的全職僱員，而不是承包商；

You had access to six months of paid medical leave.

你可以享受6個月的帶薪病假。

A contractor who's moderating for YouTube in Austin

一個在奧斯汀為YouTube做主持人的承包商。

doesn't have that same access.

並沒有同樣的權限。

- I had those months to think about my choices

- 我有幾個月的時間來思考我的選擇

and to think about ways out without having

思考出路，而不必

to deal with unemployment or having to deal with

應對失業或不得不處理的問題

how am I gonna pay rent.

我怎麼能支付租金。

I know those contractors don't have that opportunity.

我知道那些承包商沒有這個機會。

- The contractors I've talked with in Austin

- 我和奧斯汀的承包商談過

,are making $18.50 an hour, about $37,000 a year.

賺取每小時18.5美元，年薪約3.7萬美元。

Does that seem like a high enough wage given some

考慮到一些人的情況，這個工資是否足夠高？

of the risks involved?

所涉及的風險？

- Absolutely not.

- 絕對不是。

There's never gonna be enough money to make this okay.

永遠都不會有足夠的錢來解決這個問題。

I'm gonna be clear about that.

我會說清楚的。

But, I think that you need to pay contractors proportional

但是，我認為你需要按比例支付承包商的工資

to what they're going through, the impact of their work,

到他們所經歷的，他們工作的影響。

because this is so vital to the business.

因為這對企業來說至關重要。

- Let's put a fine point on it.

- 讓我們來細細道來。

If Google can't exist without the work that you did, right,