and research professor

和研究教授

who has a brand-new weekly podcast on Spotify

他在Spotify上有一個全新的每週播客。

called "Dare to Lead."

叫做 "敢為人先"。

Here is Brene Brown.

這是布蘭妮-布朗

Yeah, Brene. It's so nice to see you.

是啊，布倫妮。很高興見到你

Thank you so much for coming back...

謝謝你回來... ...

-Thank you. -...to the show.

-謝謝你-...為了節目

I appreciate this. I want to talk about this new podcast.

我很感激。我想談談這個新播客。

It's about leadership, called "Dare to Lead."

是關於領導力的，叫 "敢於上司"。

I don't know. I just feel like it's a good message for anyone,

我不知道，我只是覺得我只是覺得這對任何人來說都是個好資訊。

because one of your messages in your book that I read earlier

因為你在書中的一個資訊 我早些時候讀到的。

is that every one of us is a leader in some way.

是我們每個人都是某方面的領導者。

It's not just for people in charge.

這不僅僅是負責人的問題。

Like, everyone --

像，每個人 -

Can you expand on that?

你能解釋一下嗎？

-Yeah. I mean, I think when we think "leader,"

-是的，我是說，我覺得當我們想到 "領導者 "的時候... ...

we think, like, pinstripes and shoulder pads

我們認為，像，細條紋和肩墊

and a "C" suite office,

和一個 "C "型套房辦公室。

and the truth is, I've been in those offices

而事實是，我一直在這些辦事處

and couldn't find a leader to save my life.

卻找不到一個救命的上司。

And I've been around everyday people

而我一直在身邊的日常人

that would never identify as a leader

不會認作上司的

and been surrounded by them.

並被他們包圍。

So I define a leader

所以我給上司下了一個定義

as any person who holds themselves accountable

敢於負責的人

for finding the potential in people and processes

挖掘人和流程的潛力

and has the courage, the guts to develop that potential.

並有勇氣，有膽量去開發這種潛力。

And that's all of us. I mean, we're just --

這就是我們所有的人。我的意思是，我們只是 -

I recently asked Jon Meacham, I said, "What would you say

我最近問喬恩-米查姆，我說："你會說什麼？

to people who don't think they're leaders?"

對那些不認為自己是上司的人？"

And he said, "Then you don't understand democracy.

他說："那你就不懂民主。

We all have to lead." -Wow.

我們都要帶頭。"-譁。

-And so I just -- I loved that.

-所以我只是... ... 我喜歡這樣。

-Yeah. -I think we're all leaders.

-是的 我想我們都是領導者。

-You've interviewed all these people and tried to find --

-你已經採訪了所有這些人，並試圖找到 -

and you've studied leaders, and you try to find patterns.

你研究過上司，你會試著去尋找模式。

What are a few patterns that you always see showing up

你經常看到的幾種模式出現在什麼地方？

in good leaders?

在好的領導者？

-Yeah. This was the shock for me.

-是啊，這讓我很震驚。是的，這對我來說是個打擊。

In fact, this is my 23rd year as a researcher,

事實上，今年是我做研究員的第23個年頭。

and this is a 10-year study.

而這是一項為期10年的研究。

And it was the first study I'd ever done

這是我做的第一項研究。

where the answers across all of the research participants

其中所有研究參與者的答案

was the same. So, what we asked was really straightforward.

是一樣的。所以，我們的要求其實很直接。

From special forces military to creatives

從特種部隊軍人到創客

to all over the world, NGOs, we asked,

向世界各地的非政府組織，我們要求：

"What's the future of leadership?

"領導力的未來是什麼？

Who's going to be leading in 5 years, 10 years,

5年後，10年後，誰會領先。

and who's going to be gone?"

和誰會走？"

And the answer was, "We need braver leaders."

而答案是，"我們需要更勇敢的領導者。"

And so when we drilled into, what does that mean?

所以當我們鑽研到，這意味著什麼？

I mean, I love the word "brave." I love the word "courage,"

我的意思是，我喜歡 "勇敢 "這個詞。我喜歡 "勇氣 "這個詞

but they're gauzy.

但它們是紗質的。

Like, what does that mean? -Yeah.

那是什麼意思？-是的

-It came down to four skill sets --

歸根結底是四種技能 -- --

the ability to rumble with vulnerability.

脆弱的能力隆隆作響。

You know, that means when things get uncertain and hard,

你知道，這意味著當事情變得不確定和困難。

we don't tap out.

我們不拍出來。

We don't tap out of hard conversations.

我們不挖掘出難言之隱。

We don't tap out of feedback, giving it or receiving it.

我們不會從反饋中挖掘出來，給予它或接受它。

-Mm-hmm. -Second thing is

-嗯哼-第二件事是

that we really learn how to live into our values.

我們要真正學會如何活出自己的價值。

I mean, the most daring leaders we've talked to

我是說，我們談過的最大膽的領導人

are very clear not only about what their values are,

是非常明確的，不僅是他們的價值觀是什麼。

but also what the behaviors are that support those values.

但同時也是支持這些價值觀的行為是什麼。

Like, there are a lot of big, fun leadership words

就像，有很多大的，有趣的領導力詞彙

like "integrity."

如 "誠信"。

But, like, if I walk into another organization

但是，像，如果我走進另一個組織

and see an integrity, like, poster with an eagle,

並看到一個誠信，喜歡，海報與鷹。

like, what does that --

喜歡，什麼是 -

You know, it's like, "Caw!"

你知道，這就像，"Caw！"

What does that mean? -I don't know what it means.

那是什麼意思？-我不知道是什麼意思。

You were on Skymall, and you were bored,

你在天貓上，而且你很無聊。

and you go it's only 10 bucks. -[ Laughs ] Skymall.

你去，它只是10塊錢。-[笑]天貓。

No, Skymall.

不，天貓。

And you don't know what it means.

而你卻不知道這意味著什麼。

So these leaders have operationalized it

所以，這些上司已經將其操作化

into behaviors that they hold themselves accountable for.

變成他們對自己負責的行為。

The third thing is building trust,

第三件事是建立信任。

talking explicitly about trust,

明確談論信任。

'cause no trust, no teams, no good work.

因為沒有信任，沒有團隊，沒有好的工作。

And the last one is huge. And I learned this

而最後一個是巨大的。我還學到了這個

from working with a lot of professional sports teams.

從與很多專業運動隊合作。

You've got to know how to reset

你必須知道如何重置

after failure, disappointment, and setbacks.

在失敗、失望、挫折之後。

You got to learn how to get back up when you fall,

你必須學會如何在你摔倒時重新站起來。

'cause that's part of being brave.

因為這也是勇敢的一部分。

-Today is Veterans Day,

-今天是退伍軍人節

and I know you've worked with a lot of military leaders.

我知道你和很多軍方領導人合作過。

You do a lot of great stuff for the military.

你為軍隊做了很多偉大的事情。

What have you learned from military specifically?

你從軍事上具體學到了什麼？

-You know, it's really --

-你知道，這是真的 -

You know, when you're a person who teaches vulnerability,

你知道，當你是一個教人脆弱的人。

going in to work with special forces

進駐特種部隊

or, you know, Air Force fighter pilots,

或者，你知道，空軍戰鬥機飛行員。

you're like, "Oh, man, this is going to be a hard sell."

你想，"哦，夥計，這將是一個艱難的銷售。"

But what's interesting is they probably taught me more

但有趣的是他們可能教會了我更多的東西

about the importance of being in uncertainty.

關於在不確定中的重要性。

I think it's like, when you got to be all blustery at work,

我想這就像，當你在工作的時候，你得是所有的虛張聲勢。

it's harder -- -It's not going to work.

這是更難 - 它不會工作。

-Yeah. When your life's on the line,

-是的是啊，當你的生命岌岌可危的時候

you get the importance of emotion vulnerability.

你明白情感脆弱的重要性。

-You know, you end every episode on your podcast

-你知道，你在你的播客上每集都結束了

asking your guests

請客

to name five songs that they can't live without,

來說出五首他們不能沒有的歌曲。

which I think is tough.

我認為這是艱難的。

And you ask what that playlist says about them, and I love it.

而你問那個播放列表說的是什麼，我很喜歡。

I think it's a great, great question.

我覺得這是一個很好很好的問題。

So I thought maybe I'd turn the tables if you're up for it

所以我想，如果你願意的話，也許我可以改變一下局面。

and ask you.

並問你。

-Okay. Well, I thought about this,

-好吧好吧，我想過這個問題

and these are not songs that I just love.

而這些都不是我只是喜歡的歌曲。

These are songs that I would be sad

這些歌我都會很傷心

if I couldn't find them when I needed them.

如果我在需要它們的時候找不到它們。

-Wow.

-哇。

-Yeah. And so they're real for me.

-是啊，所以它們對我來說是真實的所以他們對我來說是真實的。

So, "If I Needed You," Townes Van Zandt.

所以，"如果我需要你"，Townes Van Zandt。

"Amazing Grace," Willie Nelson.

"奇異恩典"，威利納爾遜。

"Before the Last Teardrop Falls," Freddy Fender.

"在最後一滴淚珠落下之前"，弗雷迪-芬德。

-What? [ Laughs ]

-什麼？[笑]

-Yes, for sure.

-是的，當然

-I love Freddy Fender. -Yeah.

-我喜歡Freddy Fender.我喜歡弗雷迪-芬德. - 是的.

Bonnie Raitt and John Prine singing "Angel from Montgomery."

邦妮-雷特和約翰-普雷恩演唱 "蒙哥馬利的天使"。

And Carol Woods and Timothy Mitchum's cover of "Let It Be."

卡羅爾-伍茲和蒂莫西-米徹姆翻唱的 "順其自然"。

I have to have those songs.

我必須要有這些歌曲。

-Wow. -When the going get's tough,

-哇哦-當事情變得艱難的時候。

those songs get going.

這些歌曲得到去。

-I really appreciate you being back on the show.

-我真的很感激你能回到節目中來。

Thank you so much.

非常感謝你。

-Thank you. -Please be well.

-謝謝你-請安好

Brene Brown. New episodes of "Dare to Lead" --

布雷恩-布朗。"敢為天下先 "的新劇集 -- -- "敢為天下先"。

"Dare to Lead" are released every Monday on Spotify.

"Dare to Lead "每週一在Spotify發佈。