of slow-cooked pastrami,

慢煮的薰牛肉。

a whopping three quarters of a pound of them

足足有四分之三磅重

layered onto chewy rye bread.

鋪在有嚼勁的黑麥麵包上。

It's one of the most New York foods you can find,

這是你能找到的最紐約的食物之一。

and it's from none other than Katz's,

而這正是卡茨的。

the city's most famous deli.

該市最著名的熟食店。

Brad Kass: That pastrami is by far the best pastrami

Brad Kass:那薰牛肉是迄今為止最好的薰牛肉

I've ever had in my life.

我這輩子都沒有過。

It really just melts in your mouth.

真的是入口即化。

Taryn: You know the pastrami comes from Katz's

Taryn：你知道薰牛肉來自Katz's。

based on four factors:

基於四個因素：

the cut of meat they use, which gets extra juicy

鮮嫩多汁

and flavorful when it's cooked;

並且煮熟後味道鮮美。

the monthlong curing process that gives the pastrami

長達一個月的醃製過程，使燻肉

its classic pink color;

其經典的粉紅色。

the signature rub, or bark, around the edge

擦邊球

that's made with a blend of spices;

那是用香料混合而成的。

and the extremely skillful way

和極其熟練的方式

they carve it into perfectly thin slices.

他們把它切成完美的薄片。

Jacob Grasso: But I always get their hot pastrami.

但我總是吃他們的熱薰牛肉。

And it's just so, like, juicy,

而且它只是如此，喜歡，多汁。

Liz hates the word juicy, but to describe,

莉斯討厭多汁這個詞，但要形容。

it's, like, good juicy, and with the mustard

它的一樣，好多汁，和芥末

and the rye, it just ties it all together.

和黑麥，它只是把它聯繫在一起。

It's perfect.

這是完美的。

Elizabeth Napolitano: [laughs] Yeah.

伊麗莎白-納波利塔諾：[笑]是的。

Taryn: Katz's is known for having a really long line

Taryn：Katz's是著名的有一個非常長的線。

outside of its doors.

其門外。

So I thought I'd catch up with owner Jake Dell

所以我想和老闆傑克-戴爾聊一聊。

about how he makes some of the best pastrami in the world,

關於他如何製作世界上最好的薰牛肉。

even during a shutdown.

即使在停產期間。

So, can you kinda tell us a little bit

所以，你能不能跟我們說說？

of what you guys are going through right now?

你們現在正在經歷什麼？

The challenges you might be facing, or?

你可能面臨的挑戰，或?

Jake Dell: Yeah, this is definitely a challenge,

傑克-戴爾是的，這絕對是一個挑戰。

doing an interview like this.

做一個這樣的採訪。

A lot of delivery though, which is great,

不過很多快遞，這很好。

and a lot of shipping nationwide.

而且全國範圍內有很多運輸。

A lot of customers getting meats by the pound,

很多顧客都是按斤數買肉的。

soups for their fridge,

湯為他們的冰箱。

really just stocking up.

真的只是儲備了。

Taryn: One of the most popular orders

Taryn：最受歡迎的訂單之一

is this juicy pastrami on rye,

是這個多汁的薰牛肉在黑麥上。

something that takes a month to make,

要花一個月時間做的東西。

starting with the cut of meat.

從切肉開始。

While you can use a few cuts to make pastrami,

雖然你可以用一些切口來做薰牛肉。

Katz's swears by the navel end.

卡茨的發誓是肚臍端。

Jake: We use navel for pastrami. That's very traditional.

我們用肚臍做薰牛肉.那是很傳統的.

And part of what makes the navel so beautiful

而肚臍眼之所以如此美麗，也是有一部分原因的

for this process is that the fat is really

這個過程中的脂肪是真正的

just centralized in the middle of the cut of meat.

只是集中在切肉的中間。

Whereas a brisket can kinda be on the outside,

而牛腩則可以挺在外面。

the navel's really on the inside.

肚臍眼真的在裡面。

So when you're smoking it, you're pulling the fat

所以當你抽的時候，你就會把脂肪抽出來。

from the center out to the edges.

從中心到邊緣。

So you really get all these juices

所以你真的得到所有這些汁液

and flavors flowing throughout, from top to bottom.

和味道從上到下的整個流程。

Taryn: Then comes the curing stage,

Taryn：然後是固化階段。

the longest part of the process,

流程中最長的部分。

which can last between three to four weeks.

可持續三至四周。

Jake: Curing is basically just a salt bath.

傑克：固化基本上就是鹽浴。

It's about taking salt and breaking down

這就是拿鹽和分解

some of the muscle, some of the tissue,

一些肌肉，一些組織。

some of the connective tissue.

一些結締組織的。

Salt is good for preservation

食鹽有利於保存

and good for flavor.

並對味道有好處。

Taryn: Cool. And what type of salt

Taryn：酷。什麼類型的鹽

do you guys use for that process?

你們用的是什麼工藝？

Jake: Pink salts are a type of curing salts

粉紅鹽是固化鹽的一種。

that basically helps give the rose color to the meat.

這基本上有助於給肉的玫瑰色。

Taryn: The next stage is all about intensifying flavor.

Taryn：下一個階段就是要強化味道。

They combine a little bit of salt, pepper,

他們結合了一點鹽，胡椒粉。

garlic, and coriander to make

蒜和香菜製作

the pastrami's signature rub, or bark.

薰牛肉的標誌性摩擦，或樹皮。

Then each piece is smoked anywhere

然後，每塊都是在任何地方熏製

from seven to 72 hours, depending on the size

從7小時到72小時，取決於大小。

and composition of the meat.

和肉的成分。

And how does the smoking affect the flavor

熏製對味道有什麼影響呢？

and the tenderness of the meat?

和肉的嫩度？

What is happening at that stage of the process?

在這個階段發生了什麼？

Jake: I mean, that's,

我的意思是，那是。

when it comes to pastrami, that's everything, right?

當它涉及到薰牛肉， 這就是一切，對不對？

Smoking and rub is so important.

吸菸和擦拭是如此重要。

What you're going to put on the outside there

你要把什麼放在外面？

is going to really soak through.

是要真正的浸透。

That smoking process is gonna get

吸菸的過程是會得到

these flavors to kind of meld together

這些味道融合在一起

and go from top to bottom, side to side, piece to piece.

並從上到下，從邊到邊，一塊一塊的去做。

And so you really get this beautiful infusion of flavor.

所以你真的得到了這種美麗的味道的注入。

Taryn: The cooking process finishes off with

Taryn: 烹調過程的最後是用

steaming the pastrami until it's extremely soft.

將薰牛肉蒸至極度柔軟。

So soft that the workers behind the counter

軟得讓櫃檯後的工人

are considered masters at slicing it.

被認為是切磋的高手。

Jake: It's very bizarre to feel the meat be that soft.

傑克：感覺到肉是那樣的軟，非常奇怪。

So, if we tried to put it on the slicer,

所以，如果我們試圖把它放在切片機上。

it would just crumble right through.

它只是崩潰的權利通過。

Forget it.

算了吧

There's no chance that's gonna happen.

這是不可能的事

That's why a lot of places don't cook it this long,

所以很多地方都不會煮這麼久。

because it's a huge hassle and a huge headache.

因為這是一個巨大的麻煩和巨大的頭疼。

And it takes a tremendous amount of knife skills

而這需要大量的刀法。

and years of experience and practice

以及多年的經驗和實踐

to really know what you're doing with that piece of meat

真正知道你在用那塊肉做什麼。

that can just turn into dust if you're not careful.

如果你不小心的話，就會變成灰塵。

Brad: It kind of has that same texture as, like,

布拉德：它的質地有點像，像。

really good Texas barbecue, where you, like,

真正好的德州烤肉，在那裡，你，喜歡。

it comes off the bone and melts in your mouth.

它從骨頭上脫落，在你的嘴裡融化。

It has that exact same concept.

它有著完全相同的概念。

Taryn: By the end of the month, Katz's pastrami

Taryn：到了月底，Katz的薰牛肉

is ready to be sandwiched between

準備好夾在

two slices of rye bread with deli mustard.

兩片黑麥麵包配熟食芥末。

Since shutting down dine-in service,

自從關閉了堂食服務。

not as many customers are lining up outside of Katz's,

沒有那麼多顧客在Katz的外面排隊。

but many are still ordering pickup and delivery.

但很多人還是訂購了自提和送貨。

Brad: When I got it a week ago it was still warm,

布拉德：當我一週前拿到它的時候，它還是暖的。

everything was exactly how I wanted it.

一切都是我想要的。

Actually, I got coleslaw on my sandwich,

事實上，我的三明治上有捲心菜。

and they put it on the side, which I think is a genius move,

他們把它放在旁邊， 我認為這是一個天才的舉動。

so that it doesn't make the bread soggy, so.

以免讓麵包變溼，所以。

It was still just as incredible

還是那麼不可思議

taking it home and getting it delivery.

把它帶回家，讓它送貨。

Taryn: Fortunately, the deli isn't worried about

Taryn：幸運的是，熟食店並不擔心。

running out of pastrami, since Jake says

薰牛肉用完了，因為傑克說

he can adjust how long he cures the meat.

他可以調整他醃製肉的時間。

Jake: Right, if business gets too slow

對，如果生意太慢

you can kind of increase the length of pickling.

你可以種增加醃製的長度。

If it goes really fast, you can decrease.

如果速度真的很快，你可以減少。

So there's a, it provides a great cushion.

所以有一個，它提供了一個很好的緩衝。

Taryn: But we know the future isn't for certain,

Taryn：但我們知道未來並不確定。

so Jake says he's taking business day by day.

所以Jake說他每天都在處理生意。

For now, the deli remains open,

目前，這家熟食店仍在營業。

as it has through recessions, depressions,

因為它經歷了經濟衰退、蕭條。

and other crises over the last 100 years.

和過去100年的其他危機。

Zach Edwards: Everyone would be a little hurt

扎克-愛德華茲。每個人都會有點受傷

if Katz's closed, even for the time being,

如果卡茨的關閉，即使是暫時的。

'cause it's such a New York City establishment.

因為它是這樣的紐約市建立。

It boosts the morale of everyone in New York City,

它能提高紐約市每個人的士氣。

having those major landmarks stay open.

讓那些主要的地標性建築保持開放。

You know, it shows that New York City is strong,

你知道，這說明紐約市很強大。

New City is always strong.

新城永遠是強者。

Jake: If you would've asked me this five months ago

如果你五個月前問我這個問題的話

in the middle of the holiday rush,

在節日的高峰期。

"What do you think your Passover's gonna look like?"

"你覺得你的逾越節會是什麼樣子？"

This is not quite how I envisioned it.

這不是我所設想的那樣。

I don't think any of us did.

我不認為我們任何人都這樣做。

So the most we can do is

所以我們能做的最多就是

to focus on the meat right in front of us.

以專注於眼前的肉。