Everything was fine, I'm well, I wasn't infected. But after 14 days I can say: One

一切都很好，我很好，我沒有被感染。但14天后，我可以說。一...

should avoid quarantine if possible. I'm glad I can meet people face to face again.

應儘可能避免隔離。我很高興能再次面對面地見到人們。

Once again, brutal crimes have been committed in France. How is it possible, do you think,

法國又一次發生了殘暴的罪行。你認為，這怎麼可能。

that this can happen in the center of Europe? Of course our thoughts are, above all, with

這在歐洲的中心地區會發生嗎？當然，我們的想法是，最重要的是，與...

the relatives who have our sympathy. But I believe what we must do now in Europe, not

我們同情的親屬。但我相信，我們現在在歐洲必須做的，不是...

just in France, is to stand up to this act of brutality and the Islamist motives behind

就在法國，就是要站出來反對這種野蠻行徑和背後的伊斯蘭主義動機

it. We should do that. Many people in Europe have done that. And it's good that representatives

我們應該這樣做我們應該這樣做。歐洲的許多人已經這樣做了。而且，代表們

of Muslim states also joined in this condemnation. Do you fear that there could also be attacks

穆斯林國家的人也加入了這一譴責。你是否擔心也會有攻擊

in Germany? Most recently we had an attack in Dresden

在德國？最近我們在德累斯頓發生了一起襲擊事件

where one person was wounded and another died. So we cannot pretend that we are immune to

其中一人受傷，另一人死亡。是以，我們不能假裝我們可以不受影響。

such attacks here in Germany. On the contrary, we have to remain vigilant. Indeed, the security

在德國的這種攻擊。相反，我們必須保持警惕。事實上，安全

services are vigilant. But in our democratic societies, we shouldn't base the response

服務部門保持警惕。但在我們的民主社會里，我們不應該把應對措施建立在

of the state on a course determined by hate and xenophobia. Acceptance and mutual respect

仇恨和仇外心理決定了國家的發展方向。接受和相互尊重

are a part of our society. And so, standing up to such acts of brutal violence, and Islamist

是我們社會的一部分。是以，站出來反對這種野蠻的暴力行為，和伊斯蘭教徒

motives is one thing, the other is trying to maintain the openness of our society. That's

動機是一回事，另一個是要保持我們社會的開放性。這就是

the other challenge. You were speaking about the role of Muslim

另一個挑戰。你說的是穆斯林的作用。

associations. What role do the verbal attacks of President Erdogan play in the escalation?

協會。埃爾多安總統的言語攻擊在升級中扮演了什麼角色？

They are not helpful at all, that's beyond doubt. I hope that this escalation, which

他們根本無濟於事，這是毋庸置疑的。我希望，這種升級

we've noted, this noticeably harsher rhetoric, didn't lead to possible perpetrators feeling

我們已經注意到，這種明顯更嚴厲的言辭，並沒有導致可能的肇事者感到。

encouraged. Mr. Steinmeier, we are in the middle of the

鼓勵。施泰因邁爾先生，我們正在進行中。

coronavirus crisis. Germany is facing a partial lockdown. Have we lost control?

冠狀病毒危機。德國正面臨部分封鎖。我們失去控制了嗎？

We certainly are in a critical phase. That is true for many states in Europe, but also

我們當然正處於一個關鍵階段。對歐洲許多國家來說是這樣，但也是這樣。

for Germany. We are in a situation where the number of infections is rising every day,

對德國來說。我們現在的情況是，感染人數每天都在增加。

reaching new records. This is also a practical test for democracy in Germany. Either we manage

達到新的記錄。這也是對德國民主的一次實際考驗。要麼我們管理

to reduce the number of infections significantly with the means at our disposal, or the situation

在我們所能掌握的手段下，大幅減少感染的數量，或情況

will get out of control. I am confident that we will succeed in pushing back the rate of

會失去控制。我有信心，我們會成功地把香港的經濟發展速度推後。

infection. Still, the question remains, faced with such

感染。但問題是，面對這樣的

heavy measures – what is more important, the health of the population or their basic

沉重的措施 -- -- 什麼是更重要的，是人民的健康還是他們的基本生活？

freedoms? I'm convinced that most people realize that

自由？我相信大多數人都意識到了

these burdens are necessary at this point, so we don't have to experience what some

這些負擔是必要的，在這一點上，所以我們不必經歷什麼一些

of our neighbors have experienced – hospitals overflowing, highly infectious patients having

我們的鄰居都經歷過--醫院人滿為患，高傳染病人有病在身。

to lie in corridors, or who can't be admitted at all. We must avoid pushing the health system

躺在走廊裡，或者根本不能入院。我們必須避免把衛生系統推向

beyond its limits, that is the central goal now. I think that people understand that.

超越其極限，這是現在的核心目標。我想，人們都明白這一點。

Nevertheless, resistance to these measures is growing across Europe, and also in Germany.

然而，歐洲各地以及德國對這些措施的牴觸情緒正在增加。

We can expect a long, hard winter. Are politicians not driving more and more people into the

我們可以期待一個漫長而艱難的冬天。政治家們是不是把越來越多的人趕進了這個冬天？

arms of conspiracy theorists and radicals? Of course, we know this from health emergencies

陰謀論者和激進分子的武器？當然，我們從健康緊急事件中瞭解到這一點

in the past - the longer such a pandemic lasts, the greater the strains are – and the stronger

過去--這種大流行持續的時間越長，壓力越大--也越強。

the criticism of restrictions. But the number of people who consider the restrictions to

限制的責備。但認為限行的人有多少？

be correct or are demanding stricter measures is currently growing faster than the number

嚴格的措施，目前的增長速度超過預期。

of critics. In this respect, it's not so much the numbers that worry me, but the abrasiveness

的批評家。在這方面，它不是那麼多的數字，我擔心的，但磨蝕性

of the argument. There is hardly a bridge between those who say, yes, that is correct

的說法。在那些說，是的，那是正確的人之間幾乎沒有一座橋樑。

- and those who either don't consider the coronavirus a danger, or completely reject

- 以及那些要麼不認為冠狀病毒有危險，要麼完全拒絕的人。

restrictions. I've tried myself to bring supporters and opponents together. This can be done in

限制。我曾嘗試自己把支持者和反對者聚集在一起。這可以在

smaller groups. But on a larger scale, the conversation has indeed become more difficult.

較小的群體。但在更大的範圍內，對話確實變得更加困難。

Those people who are now abandoning dialogue, who are changing to the side of the radicals,

那些現在放棄對話的人，他們正改投激進派一邊。

how can they be brought back to a democratic discourse?

如何讓他們回到民主的話語中去？

You cannot force someone into a democratic discourse. Politicians constantly have to

你不能強迫別人進入民主話語權。政治家們經常要

take on the task of explaining in a transparent manner what they're doing and why certain

承擔起以透明的方式解釋他們正在做的事情和為什麼要進行某些

measures are required. With the number of infections rising, those that assert that

需要採取措施。隨著感染人數的增加，那些聲稱：

we are dealing with a simple flu, that we politicians are cooking up a storm, are themselves

我們正在處理一個簡單的流感， 我們的政治家正在醞釀一場風暴， 是自己的。

increasingly under pressure. Mr. President – in a few days, a new president

越來越多的壓力。總統先生--再過幾天，新總統就會來了

will be elected in the United States. How important is that election?

將在美國當選。這次選舉有多重要？

Of course, this is, first of all, important for the U.S. itself. But the election on November

當然，這首先是對美國本身很重要。但11月的選舉

3 will have a global impact. Regardless of who wins – I hope that afterwards the United

3將產生全球影響。無論誰勝出--我都希望，在此後，聯合國將繼續為其提供服務。

States will again develop the ability to have a shared idea about the future of their country.

各國將再次發展對本國未來有共同想法的能力。

And what's important for us as Europeans is to also understand that the European project,

而對我們歐洲人來說，重要的是也要明白，歐洲項目。

with European integration and cooperation, is invested in the transatlantic relationship.

與歐洲一體化與合作，對跨大西洋關係的投入。

This has not been the case recently. But I hope that new understanding for Europe will

最近的情況並非如此。但我希望，對歐洲的新理解將

grow. Supposing that there's a change of president

增長。假設換了一個總統的話

in the White House. Will the transatlantic relationship be okay?

在白宮。跨大西洋關係會好嗎？

I think we Europeans, and especially we Germans, must force ourselves to take a realistic look

我想我們歐洲人，特別是我們德國人，必須強迫自己以現實的眼光來看待

at the changed situation, one in which the U.S. also finds itself. With the end of the

在改變了的形勢下，美國也發現自己。伴隨著結束。

Cold War, with the realization that Russia is no longer the number one threat for the

冷戰中，隨著意識到俄羅斯不再是頭號威脅，對。

U.S., but that the security threats for the United States might come from other corners

美國，但美國的安全威脅可能來自於其他地區。

of the world, a reorientation has occurred. This political reorientation, or let's say

的世界，發生了重新定位。這種政治上的重新定位，或者說是

this focus on China and East Asia, that's something that began before Trump — but

這種對中國和東亞的關注，那是在特朗普之前就開始的事情--但

not with the aggressiveness with which the dispute with China is being sought now.

而不是以現在與中國爭端的咄咄逼人的姿態來尋求。

What does that mean for German policy? I am firmly convinced that what first of all

這對德國的政策意味著什麼？我堅信，首先要做的是

needs to happen is to recognize that our national interest is Europe. But perhaps this coronavirus

需要發生的是承認我們的國家利益是歐洲。但也許這種冠狀病毒

crisis has shown how important European cooperation is. There was a really, perhaps unexpected,

危機表明，歐洲合作是多麼重要。有一個真正的，也許是意想不到的。

but courageous decision by the European heads of government in July regarding the really

歐洲各國政府首腦在7月作出了一項勇敢的決定，涉及到了真正的 "不平等"。

substantial European reconstruction fund. I see that there are joint European efforts,

歐洲重建基金數額巨大。我看到歐洲正在作出聯合努力。

for example, in the development, production and distribution of a vaccine. And just recently,

例如，在疫苗的研發、生產和銷售方面。而就在最近，

decisions were made to enable cross-border aid when hospitals in border areas overflow

決定在邊境地區醫院人滿為患時提供跨境援助；

and capacities are still available on the other side. That means that Europe is learning

而另一邊的產能還在。這意味著，歐洲正在學習

— even in the crisis — and I hope that this attitude of learning from one another

- 我希望這種相互學習的態度能在危機中得到體現。

will continue. But investing in Europe is one of the tasks I think Germany will continue

會繼續下去。但投資歐洲是我認為德國將繼續的任務之一。

to face. Mr. Steinmeier, the relationship with Russia

面對。施泰因邁爾先生，與俄羅斯的關係。

is at its lowest point - most recently due to the poisoning of Alexej Navalny. Are you

是在其最低點 - 最近由於阿列克謝伊-納瓦尼中毒。你是

concerned? I'm concerned about Navalny being poisoned,

擔心？我擔心納瓦尼會被毒死。

but my concern actually dates back a long time. Of course, one should mention the illegal

但我的擔心其實由來已久。當然，應該提到非法

annexation of Crimea, where I fear that Moscow has not properly understood the shock that

吞併克里米亞，在那裡，我擔心莫斯科沒有正確地理解以下情況所帶來的衝擊：

it caused in Europe - and not just in Eastern Europe. What followed didn't change things

它在歐洲引起的--不僅僅是東歐。接下來的事情並沒有改變

for the better. Members of the opposition in Russia came increasingly under pressure.

變得更好。俄羅斯的反對派成員受到的壓力越來越大。

Some have to fear for their lives...some have lost it, right up to the Tiergarten murder

有的人要擔心自己的生命......有的人已經失去了生命，就在蒂爾加頓謀殺案中

and Navalny. This has put us in a situation where the distance has grown, without a doubt.

和納瓦尼。這使我們陷入了距離越來越遠的境地，毫無疑問。

I believe we shouldn't just let this process of alienation continue. Our history in Europe,

我相信我們不應該讓這個異化的過程繼續下去。我們在歐洲的歷史。

but also the geographical location, with Russia as a neighbor, makes it necessary to look

但也因為地理位置，與俄羅斯為鄰，所以有必要看一下。

for opportunities, again and again, to counter that.

為機會，一次又一次的反擊。

But as I say, you cannot change this unilaterally. This also requires the will and understanding

但正如我所說，你不能單方面改變這一點。這也需要你的意志和理解

of the Russian side. It sounds as though they aren't giving enough?

俄羅斯方面的。聽起來好像是他們給的不夠多？

In my opinion, it's too little, yes. Developments in the U.S., Russia and China

在我看來，這太少了，是的。美、俄、中三國的發展。

show how important it is for Germany to take on a leadership role. How much is Germany

顯示德國發揮上司作用的重要性。德國有多重要？

ready for? We need an understanding in Germany that this

準備好了嗎？我們需要在德國達成一個共識，那就是

country is important in Europe. If we invest in Europe, others will too. Due to our geographical

國家在歐洲很重要。如果我們在歐洲投資，其他人也會。由於我們的地理

location and history, we have the task of building bridges that need to be built in

位置和歷史，我們的任務是架設橋樑，需要在

Europe between East and West. Bridges across some of the misunderstandings and cracks that

歐洲東西方之間。彌合了一些誤解和裂痕的橋樑。

have appeared in the past year. But what's more important still, is understanding that

在過去的一年裡出現過。但更重要的還是要了解到

we also have to invest in Europe in terms of security policy. On the one hand, this

我們還必須在安全政策方面對歐洲進行投資。一方面，這

means making Europe stronger and, on the other hand, as I said recently, it also means significantly

意味著使歐洲更加強大，另一方面，正如我最近所說，這也意味著大大地提高歐洲的競爭力。

strengthening the European pillar in NATO. Both are necessary.

加強北約的歐洲支柱。兩者都是必要的。

Mr. Steinmeier, next year we have federal elections in Germany. This also marks the

施泰因邁爾先生，明年德國將舉行聯邦選舉。這也標誌著德國將在明年舉行聯邦選舉。

end of Angela Merkel's political era. Isn't Germany losing influence with the Chancellor,

默克爾政治時代的結束。德國是不是隨著總理失去了影響力。

both internationally and in Europe? First of all, it is quite natural that if

在國際和歐洲？首先，很自然的是，如果在國際上和歐洲都有這樣的情況，那就會有這樣的情況。

someone had the opportunity to gain political experience after so many years in government

久旱逢甘霖

office, and even more importantly, had the opportunity to expand a political network

職務，更重要的是，有機會擴大政治網絡。

in all European countries and far beyond ... whoever becomes a successor will start differently.

在所有歐洲國家和更遠的地方......無論誰成為繼任者，都將以不同的方式開始。

In this respect, these are big shoes to fill, but that doesn't mean that the successor

在這方面，這些都是需要補上的大鞋，但這並不意味著後續的

is denied the opportunity to develop a similar influence over the years. But, that's not

被剝奪了多年來形成類似影響力的機會。但是，這不是

that easy, you're right, the shoes are big. Mr. Steinmeier, thank you for the interview.

那麼容易，你是對的，鞋子很大。Steinmeier先生，謝謝你接受採訪。

I thank you.

我謝謝你。