♪ >> STEPHEN: WELCOME BACK.

歡迎回來。

JOINING ME TONIGHT IS AN N.Y.U.

今晚和我一起的是一位紐約大學的學生。

LAW PROFESSOR AND FORMER LEAD PROSECUTOR IN THE OFFICE OF

法學教授和前首席檢察官辦公室主任

SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT MUELLER.

特別顧問ROBERT MUELLER.

HE HAS JUST WRITTEN A BOOK ABOUT THE INVESTIGATION CALLED "WHERE

他剛剛寫了一本關於 "哪裡 "的調查書。

LAW ENDS."

法律結束。"

PLEASE WELCOME, ANDREW WEISSMANN.

請歡迎，安德魯-魏斯曼。

MR. WEISSMANN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

魏斯曼先生，非常感謝你能來這裡。魏斯曼，非常感謝你能來這裡。

>> NICE TO BE HERE.

>> 很高興來到這裡。

>> Stephen: WELL, WHERE DOES THE LAW END?

>> Stephen:那麼，法律的盡頭在哪裡？

( LAUGHTER ) >> OKAY, HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU

（笑） >> 好吧，你有多少時間？

HAVE?

有嗎？

SO THAT TILE COMES FROM A JOHN LAW QUOTE, ENGLISH PHILOSOPHER.

所以那塊瓷磚來自一個約翰-羅的名言，英國哲學家。

>> Stephen: SURE.

>> Stephen: SURE.

BUT THE MAIN REASON FOR IT SEX PERSONSING WHAT I

但主要的原因是它的性愛人士什麼我

EXPERIENCED FOR 22 MONTHS -- WHAT I EXPERIENCED FOR 22 MONTHS

22個月的經驗--我22個月的經驗是什麼？

INVESTIGATING THE PRESIDENT AND ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR.

調查主席和總檢察長巴爾。

>> Stephen: THIS IS ABWHERE THE LAW ENDS.

>> Stephen:這是法律結束的地方。

IS THE WHITE HOUSE ONE OF THEM?

白宮是其中之一嗎？

>> THE WHITE HOUSE AND ATTORNEY GENERAL BARR PRESENTED A NUMBER

>> 白宮和巴倫祕書長提出了一些建議。

OF OBSTACLES TO OUR INVESTIGATION, ABSOLUTELY.

對我們調查的障礙，絕對是。

>> Stephen: A RECAP FOR THE PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT KNOW WHO YOU

>> 斯蒂芬：給可能不知道你是誰的人的回顧

ARE.

是：

YOU WERE ONE TO HAVE THE LEAD PROSECUTORS FOR THE MUELLER

你曾是MUELLER案的主控檢察官之一

INVESTIGATION.

調查：

FOR ALMOST TWO YEARS WE HEARD MUELLER'S NAME JUST ABOUT EVERY

在過去的兩年裡，我們每隔一段時間就會聽到穆勒的名字。

DAY.

天。

NOT ALWAYS YOURS BUT SOMETIMES YOURS.

不一定是你的，但有時是你的。

A COUPLE OF YEARS LATER, MUELLER, MUELLER, THE GUY WITH

幾年後，MUELLER，MUELLER，那個帶著...

THE RUSSIA THING.

俄羅斯的事情。

RIGHT?

對吧？

WHAT JOB W WERE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO.

你應該做什麼工作？

>> ROD ROSENSTEIN APPOINTED ROBERT MUELLER AS SPECIAL

>> ROD ROSENSTEIN任命ROBERT MUELLER為特別顧問。

COUNSEL AND HE WAS SUPPOSED TO INVESTIGATE WHAT RUSSIA DID IN

他被要求調查俄羅斯的所作所為。

TERMS OF INTERFERING WITH OUR ELECTION AND WHETHER THERE WAS

干預我們選舉的條款以及是否有這種情況。

ANYBODY IN THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN WHO PARTICIPATED IN THAT AND

特朗普競選團隊中的任何一個人都參與了這一活動，並且

ALSO WHETHER THE PRESIDENT OBSTRUCTED JUSTICE.

此外，主席是否妨礙了司法公正；

>> Stephen: OKAY.

>> Stephen:好的

NOW, EARLY IN TE BOOK, YOU WRITE, QUOTE, AS PROUD AS I AM

現在，在這本書的早期，你寫道："像我一樣驕傲

OF THE WORK OUR TEAM DID, WE COULD HAVE DONE MORE.

我們團隊所做的工作，我們本可以做得更多。

WHAT MORE COULD YOU HAVE DONE, AND IF YOU COULD HAVE DONE IT,

你還能做什麼，如果你能做到的話。

WHY DIDN'T YOU DO IT?

你為什麼不這樣做？

>> TIMELY QUESTION BECAUSE WE ALL ARE READING THE "NEW YORK

>> 適時的問題，因為我們都在看《紐約時報》。

TIMES" AND HEARING ABOUT FINISH NANCE -- ABOUT FINANCES OF THE

時代"，並聽取了關於《公約》的完成情況----關於《公約》的融資問題。

PRESIDENT, AND THAT'S AN AREA WHERE IT'S A LONG, COMPLICATED

主席先生，這是㆒個長期而複雜的問題。

STORY, BUT IT WIL -- BUT ULTIMAT WE DID NOT DO A FULL

故事，但它會 - 但最終我們沒有做一個完整的。

INVESTIGATION OF THE PRESIDENT'S FINANCES AND THERE ARE A LOT OF

對主席的財務狀況進行調查，其中有大量的問題

UNANSWERED QUESTIONS THERE.

未回答的問題在那裡。

>> Stephen: WHO DID HE OWE $420 MILLION TO?

>> Stephen:他欠了誰4.2億？

WOULDN'T THAT HAVE BEEN HANDY, TO ASK THAT QUESTION?

問這個問題不是很方便嗎？

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

>> 這是個好問題。

BUT HERE'S PARTLY THE REASON THERE WAS A DECISION NOT TO GO

但這也是我們決定不去的部分原因。

THERE, AND THIS IS PRETTY TELLING, WHICH IS THE WHITE

在那裡，這是很好的告訴，這是白色的。

HOUSE CALLED UP AND SAID ARE YOU LOOKING INTO THE FINANCES?

家裡打來電話，說你在研究融資問題嗎？

THAT'S A RED LINE.

這是一條紅線。

AND THE DECISION THE SPECIAL COUNSEL HAD TO MADE EARLY IN THE

和特別顧問不得不早早做出的決定。

INVESTIGATION WAS DO YOU PUT THAT ASIDE FOR NOW AND PURSUE

調查是你現在把它放在一邊，然後再繼續調查。

THE INVESTIGATION INTO OTHER THINGS, WHICH WAS INCREDIBLY

對其他事情的調查，這是個極大的挑戰。

SUCCESSFUL, OR DO YOU JUST RISK GETTING FIRED RIGHT AT THE

成功，還是冒著被炒魷魚的風險？

OUTSET?

OUTSET？

>> Stephen: BUT, LISTEN, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HOW TO

>> 斯蒂芬：但是，聽著，我不知道怎麼去做。

RUN A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION OR A NATIONAL SECURITY

進行犯罪調查或國家安全調查。

INVESTIGATION, BUT IF A GUY IS ACCUSED OF MURDER AND SAYS, HEY,

調查，但如果一個傢伙被指控謀殺，並說，嘿。

DON'T LOOK IN THE CRAWL SPACE, THAT IS CROSSING A RED LINE,

不要看在RAWL空間，這是越過紅線。

DOESN'T THAT TELL YOU THAT THAT'S WHERE THE BODY IS BURIED?

這難道不能告訴你這是埋葬屍體的地方嗎？

>> SO HUGE RED FLAG, AND WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW IS YOU KNOW

>> 這麼大的紅旗，我們現在所處的位置你知道嗎？

FROM THE "NEW YORK TIMES" THAT THERE'S A HUGE AMOUNT OF

從 "紐約時報 "的報道來看，有大量的...

UNEXPLAINED DEBT, AND YOU KNOW THAT THE WHITE HOUSE HAS SAID I

無法解釋的債務，你知道白宮說過，我...

DON'T WANT ANYONE INVESTIGATING IT.

不希望任何人調查它。

AND YOU KNOW ONE MORE THING WHICH IS THEY'RE FIGHTING LIKE

你知道還有一件事，就是他們像在打架一樣。

CRAZY NOT TO TURN OVER ACCOUNTING RECORDS.

瘋狂的不交會計記錄。

SO THIS SEEMS TO BE AS AN INVESTIGATOR, YOU KNOW, MY MY AN

所以，這似乎是作為一個調查員，你知道的，我的安。

ANTENNAE ARE UP.

天線是了。

>> Stephen: I ASSUME THEY MUST HAVE BEEN UP WHEN THEY SAID

>> 史蒂芬：我猜他們說這話的時候一定已經起床了。

THAT'S A RED LINE.

這是一條紅線。

DID YOU GUYS BUTT HEADS OVER WHETHER YOU SHOULD, A, GO FOR

你們是否在是否應該，A，去的問題上爭論不休？

THE FINANCES AND, B, AS RESPECTABLY AS POSSIBLE HAUL THE

融資和，B，儘可能地拉動。

PRESIDENT IN BY THE SCRUFF OF THE NECK AND PUT HIS HAND ON A

主席抓住他的脖子，把他的手放進了他的口袋裡。

LITTLE BLACK BOOK AND SAY DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH?

小黑書和說你發誓說真話嗎？

>> ONE OF BOB MUELLER'S LINES IS WE'RE HERE TO DEFEND DEMOCRACY,

>> BOB MUELLER的一句話是：我們是來捍衛民主的。

NOT TO PRACTICE IT.

不去實踐它。

HE WOULD HEAR FROM EVERYBODY BUT THEN HE MADE THE JUDGMENT CALLS

他要聽取所有人的意見，但他卻做出了判斷。

ABOUT WHAT TO DO.

關於該怎麼做。

>> Stephen: OH, OKAY.

>> Stephen:哦，好吧。

S THE DEMOCRACY THAT THEY'RE NOT PRACTICING IS THAT THE

他們沒有實行的民主制度是：

SPECIAL COUNSEL'S OFFICE IS NOT A DEBATING SOCIETY, HE ACTUALLY

特別顧問辦公室不是辯論協會，他實際上是

JUST GETS TO MAKE THE DECISION AT THE END OF THE DAY.

只是要在一天結束時做出決定。

>> EXACTLY.

>> 正是如此。

>> Stephen: WAS IT ALL JUST IF WE PUSH TOO FAR HE'LL KILL THE

>> Stephen:如果我們推得太遠，他就會殺了我們。

INVESTIGATION?

調查？

>> THERE WAS THAT.

>> 有這樣的。

THAT WAS A PIECE OF IT.

那是它的一部分。

THERE WAS A CONCERN -- I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE MAIN PIECE

有一個擔心 -- 我想這可能是主要的部分。

OF IT IS DOING THAT, AND THEN THERE'S A CONCERN OF NO GETTING

它是這樣做的，然後有一個擔心的沒有得到

INTO -- NOT GETTING INTO A PROTRACTED LEGAL FIGHT THAT

陷入 - 不得到一個拖延的法律戰，

COULD TAKE YEARS BECAUSE, AS YOU'VE SEEN, THE PRESIDENT IS

可能需要幾年的時間，因為，你已經看到了，總統是。

QUITE LITIGIOUS.

撤除LITIGIOUS。

>> Stephen: RIGHT.

>> Stephen:右邊。

IN RETROSPECT, HOW MUCH DID THAT TAKE THE TEETH OUT OF THE

回想起來，這要花多少錢才能把牙齒取出來？

INVESTIGATION IF, AS YOU GOT CLOSER TO THINGS THAT YOU

調查如果你更接近你的東西，你就會發現，你是一個很好的人。

THOUGHT PERHAPS HAD SOME INFORMATION THAT YOU NEEDED, YOU

以為可能有一些你需要的資訊，你

HAD TO BACK AWAY BECAUSE THE GUY YOU WERE INVESTIGATING COULD

因為你要調查的那個人可能會... ...

STOP YOU FROM DOING SO?

阻止你這樣做？

IT JUST SEEMS LIKE AN ODD INVESTIGATION, THOUGH, DOESN'T

它只是看起來像一個奇怪的調查，但，不，不

GET TO FOLLOW THE FACTS.

獲取跟隨事實。

>> SO I TOTALLY AGREE.

>> 所以，完全同意。

TWO THINGS THAT ARE REALLY WORTH NOTING THAT MAKE THIS SO

有兩件值得注意的事情，讓這一切變得如此重要。

DIFFERENT THAN WHEN I INVESTIGATED ENRON OR EVEN

和我調查埃隆或甚至是埃隆的時候不同

ORGANIZED CRIME WHICH IS THAT THE PERSON THAT WE WERE

有組織的犯罪，這就是我們被的人。

INVESTIGATING HAD THE POWER TO FIRE US, AND THEY ALSO HAVE THE

調查有權力解僱我們，他們也有權力。

POWER TO PARDON PEOPLE, MEANING THAT IT WAS VERY HARD TO GET

赦免人的權力，意思是說，這很難得到

PEOPLE TO COOPERATE BECAUSE HE COULD JUST DANGLE A PARDON THAT

人們合作，因為他可以只吊一個赦免，

WOULD DETER THEM.

會嚇到他們的。

BUT THE REASON I WROTE THE BOOK IS TO SORT OF LAY OUT THE ISSUES

但我寫這本書的原因是想把問題列出來。

AND ALSO THE DISAGREEMENTS INTERNALLY AS TO WHAT WE DID SO

還有內部對我們所做的事情的分歧。

THAT PEOPLE WOULD HAVE A SORT OF CANDID DISCUSSION ABOUT THE

人們會對這個問題進行某種程度的討論。

INVESTIGATION AND ALSO THINK ABOUT IS THIS THE WAY WE WANT

調查，同時也要考慮這是不是我們想要的方式。

THINGS TO WORK IN THE FUTURE.

未來工作的事情。

>> Stephen: NOW, BOB MUELLER HAS RECENTLY PUSHED BACK NOT

>> Stephen:現在，BOB MUELLER最近推掉了不屬於他的那份工作。

VIOLENTLY, BUT HE HAS SAID -- I DON'T THINK HE CALLED YOU UP BY

暴力，但他說 - 我不認為他打電話給你了，由

NAME, BUT I THINK HE SAID THAT YOU WERE, QUOTE -- HMM, HMM,

名稱，但我想他說，你是，報價 - 嗯，嗯。

HMM, HMM, HMM -- INCOMPLETE INFORMATION?

HMM，HMM，HMM--不完整的資訊？

IS THAT WHAT HE DESCRIBED AS INCOMPLETE INFORMATION?

這就是他所說的不完整的資訊嗎？

>> YEAH.

>> 是的。

>> Stephen: DO YOU KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT?

>> Stephen:你知道他在說什麼嗎？

WHAT YOU PERHAPS WERE NOT PRIVY TO?

你可能不喜歡什麼？

>> WELL, OBVIOUSLY, IF IT'S SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW, BY

>> 好吧，很明顯，如果它是什麼我不知道，由。

DEFINITION, I CAN'T SAY WHAT IT IS THAT I DON'T KNOW.

定義，我不能說我不知道的是什麼。

BUT IT'S CERTAINLY THE CASE THAT I CAN'T SAY THAT I KNOW

但這肯定是我不能說我知道的事實

EVERYTHING.

所有的事情。

BUT, YOU KNOW, I TRIED TO GIVE A TRUTHFUL, CANDID RECITATION OF

但是，你知道，我試著給一個真實的，可信的朗誦的

THE FACTS I DID KNOW.

我所知道的事實。

>> Stephen: WHEN WE COME BACK, ANDREW WEISSMANN AND HIS TEAM'S

>> Stephen:當我們回來的時候，安德魯-魏斯曼和他的隊員們。

REACTION TO BILL BARR'S FOUR-PAGE SUMMARY OF THEIR

對BILL BARR四頁摘要的反應。

REPORT.

報告：

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

我們馬上回來。

♪ ♪

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