HEY, WELCOME BACK, EBBED.

嘿，歡迎回來，EBBED。

HE HAS ACTED IN OVER 80 MOVIES, INCLUDING "TRAINING DAY,"

他曾參演過80多部電影，其中包括《訓練日》、《大鬧天宮》、《大鬧天宮》等。

"BOYHOOD," AND "FIRST REFORMED."

"童子功 "和 "第一次改革"。

HE NOW STARS IN A SERIES HE CREATED AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCES

他現在出演了自己創作並監製的系列劇。

CALLED "THE GOOD LORD BIRD."

被稱為 "好耶和華鳥"。

PLEASE WELCOME TO "A LATE SHOW," ETHAN HAWKE!

歡迎來到 "晚間秀"，伊桑-霍克！

ETHAN, THANKS FOR BEING HERE!

ETHAN，謝謝你來這裡！

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> 謝謝你邀請我。

IT'S A PLEASURE.

這是一種享受。

>> Stephen: WE'LL GET INTO THIS A LITTLE LATER IN THE

>> Stephen:我們將在稍後的時間裡討論這個問題

INTERVIEW.

採訪：

I JUST WANTED TO START OFF BY SAYING HOW MUCH I'M LOVING "THE

我只想在開始的時候說我有多喜歡 "the

GOOD LORD BIRD."

GOOD LORD BIRD。"

IT'S BASED ON A TRUE MAN, IT'S CRAZY AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S

它基於一個真實的人，它的瘋狂在同一時間，它是。

TARAJI, FUNNY, A LOT TO TALK ABOUT.

塔拉吉，有趣，有很多話要講。

FIRST, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THEATER BECAUSE I KNOW YOU'RE A

首先，我想談談戲劇，因為我知道你是個...

THEATER GUY.

劇院的傢伙。

TOBY NOMINATED, DIRECTED BROADWAY.

託比提名，執導百老匯。

WHAT DID YOU MAKE TO HAVE THE THEATER OF THE DEBATE THE --

你為什麼要讓辯論會的舞臺... ...

WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE THEATER OF THE DEBATE THE OTHER NIGHT?

你怎麼看那天晚上的辯論會？

HOW WOULD YOU DECONSTRUCT THAT AS A DIRECTOR?

作為導演，你會如何演繹？

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

>> 這是一個很好的問題。

MY FIRST RESPONSE IS IT KIND OF SEEMED LIKE THE MOMENT IN "STAR

我的第一反應是，它似乎有點像 "星 "的那一刻。

WARS" AT THE GENERALLY REVIEWLS HE'S A CENTHOR .

戰爭 "在一般評論他是一個CENTHOR。

SO THAT'S MY FIRST THOUGHT.

所以這是我的第一個想法。

YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT CINEMA.

你是在問電影的事。

IF IT WAS THEATER, IF DAVID MAMMOTH DID 14 LINES OF CRYSTAL

如果這是戲劇，如果戴維-馬默思做了14行水晶的表演

METH, STAYED UP ALL NIGHT AND WROTE A SHORT PLAY ABOUT THE

麥特，徹夜未眠，寫了一個短劇，講述了他的故事

DOWNFALL OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA BUT COULDN'T GET DINERO

美國倒下了，但不能得到dinero。

AND PACINO SO HAD TO GET TWO UNDERSTUDIES FROM BURT REYNOLDS

而帕西諾不得不從伯特-雷諾茲那裡得到兩份研究報告。

DINNER THEATER AND SHOVE THEM ON AND SAID, GO!

晚宴劇院，並把他們推上，說，去！

THAT'S THE THEATER I THOUGHT IT WAS.

這就是我認為的劇院。

>> Stephen: THERE ARE STILL UNDECIDED VOTERS OUT THERE.

>> Stephen: 外面還有未決定的投票者。

AND I'M FROM SOUTH CAROLINA.

我來自南卡羅萊納州。

I'VE GOT FRIENDS BACK HOME WHO ARE FANS OF THE PRESIDENT.

我在家鄉有朋友，他們都是總統的粉絲。

DO YOU STILL STAY IN TOUCH?

你們還保持聯繫嗎？

YOU HAVE ROOTS IN TEXAS.

你在德州有根。

DO YOU HAVE FRIENDS BACK HOME WHO SUPPORTED THE SNPT.

你在家鄉有支持SNPT的朋友嗎？

>> -- SUPPORTED THE PRESIDENT?

>> 支持主席？

OF COURSE.

當然。

MY FAMILY'S FROM TEXAS AND WHENEVER WE GET INTO THIS THING

我的家人來自德克薩斯，每當我們得到這個東西。

THAT WE THINK SOMEBODY ELSE IS EVIL, WE'VE LOST OUR PATH,

我們認為別人是邪惡的，我們已經失去了我們的路徑。

REALLY.

真的。

THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS WHAT I HEAR FROM MY FAMILY IS IMMENSE

事情的真相是，我從我的家人那裡聽到的東西是很明顯的。

SADNESS, EVEN FROM THE FAMILIAR MEMBERS THAT VOTED FOR TRUMP,

悲哀，即使是投票給特朗普的親屬也是如此。

ABOUT THE LEVEL OF MISINFORMATION AND HOW MUCH THEY

誤報的程度和誤報的程度。

ARE PREYING ON PEOPLE'S FEAR AND GREED, AND THERE'S A KIND OF

掠奪人們的恐懼和貪婪，有一種類型的

SADNESS COMING FROM MY FAMILY THAT HE'S NOT WHO THEY HAD HOPED

我的家人感到悲傷，他不是他們希望的那個人。

HE WAS.

他什麼。

AND IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY LIKE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, BUT

這並不意味著他們喜歡民主黨，但是... ...

IT'S -- IF NOTHING ELSE, I HATE TO SAY IT, THERE'S AN OVERRIDING

這是... ... 如果沒有別的，我不想說，有一個壓倒性的。

SADNESS.

悲傷。

>> Stephen: I AGREE.

>> Stephen:我同意。

THERE'S A SENSE OF GRIEF AND LOSS FOR A LOT OF AMERICANS EVEN

很多美國人都有一種悲傷和失落的感覺，甚至是。

FOR PEOPLE WHO SUPPORTED THE PRESIDENT BECAUSE THEY SEE HIM

給那些支持總統的人，因為他們看到了他。

AS SOMEONE WHO'S PRECIOUS TO THEM BEING ATTACKED.

作為一個人誰的親人 他們被攻擊。

>> YEAH, YOU CAN'T BE A SERIOUS CHRISTIAN AND RESPOND TO SOME OF

>> 是的，你不能成為一個虔誠的基督徒，並對其中一些人作出迴應。

THE THINGS THAT HE SAYS, NOT REALLY.

他說的那些話，不是真的。

YOU CAN'T.

你不能。

YOU CAN'T ACCEPT THAT KIND OF LEADERSHIP.

你不能接受這種上司方式。

HE'S BROKEN DOWN POLITICAL PARTIES.

他破壞了政治黨派。

YOU KNOW, MY FAMILY MEMBERS -- YOU KNOW, GEORGE H.W. BUSH WAS A

你知道，我的家庭成員 - 你知道，喬治-H-W-布什是一個。

VERY SERIOUS PERSON.

非常認真的人。

THAT'S A FORMIDABLE HUMAN BEING WHO'S EDUCATED AND DEDICATED HIS

這是一個強大的人類誰的教育和奉獻他的。

LIFE FOR WHAT HE BELIEVED WAS THE BETTERMENT TO HAVE THE

為他所相信的東西而活，是最好的選擇。

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND HE DID A LOT OF GREAT THINGS.

美利堅合眾國和他做了很多偉大的事情。

SEE, THAT'S WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUTRABOUT REPUBLICANS AND DEMO

你看，這就是當你在談論共和黨人和民主黨人的時候。

WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT RIGHT NOW.

我們現在不談這個。

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMEONE FANNING THE FLAMES OF OUR

我們正在談論有人在煽動我們的火焰。

INABILITY TO SEE EACH OTHER.

無法看到對方；

TAKE THE PANDEMIC FOR EXAMPLE, WE'RE KIND OF GIVEN THIS FALSE

以PANDEMIC為例，我們是有點給這個假的。

ARGUMENT LIKE WE HAVE TO DECIDE BETWEEN THE ECONOMY AND OUR

像我們必須在經濟和我們的經濟之間做出決定的論點。

HEALTH, AS IF -- WE'RE GROWNUPS.

健康，好像 -- 我們是成年人。

WE'RE RESPONSIBLE ADULTS AND PARENTS AND WE HAVE TO DO BOTH.

我們是負責任的成年人和家長，我們必須兩者兼顧。

WE HAVE TO KEEP PEOPLE HEALTHY AND KEEP THE ECONOMY GOING.

我們必須讓人們保持健康，讓經濟繼續發展。

IT'S A FALSE ARGUMENT THAT ONE SIDE OF THE TEAM IS FOR

這是個錯誤的論點，說一方的隊伍是為了。

SOMETHING, AND IT CREATES THIS CHAOS OF, YOU KNOW, DUALISTIC

某種東西，它創造了這種混亂的，你知道的，雙重性的

THINKING THAT MAKES EVERYBODY SMALLER THAN WHAT WE REALLY ARE.

這樣的想法讓每個人都比我們真正的樣子要小。

>> Stephen: ALL OF THAT IS A PER FECK LEADUP SO THE SHOW THAT

>> 斯蒂芬：所有這些都是一個每一個該死的前奏，所以該節目，

YOU'RE ON HERE TO TALK ABOUT, THE GOOD LORD BIRD, WHERE YOU

你來這裡是要談，天主鳥，你在哪裡？

PLAY JOHN BROWN.

播放約翰-布朗。

HERE IS A PHOTO OF YOU PLAYING JOHN BROWN.

這是你扮演約翰-布朗的照片。

I HAVEN'T GOTTEN THIS FAR IN THE SHOW YET BUT YOU WILL EVENTUALLY

我還沒到這一步，但你會在節目中的事件。

LOOK LIKE THIS IN IT, RIGHT?

像這樣在裡面，對不對？

SO HERE'S A GUY WHO IS IN A TIME OF CHAOS, TOOK HIS BIBLE VERY

所以，這裡有一個人誰是在一個混亂的時代，把他的聖經非常。

SERIOUSLY, WAS FINE WITH DIVIDING PEOPLE.

說真的，對分化人民很滿意。

FOR THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW, WHO WAS JOHN BROWN?

對於不知道的人來說，約翰-布朗是誰？

>> OKAY.

>> OKAY。

WELL, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

好吧，這是一個很好的問題。

JOHN BROWN WAS A NONVIOLENT ABOLITIONIST UNTIL HE WAS ABOUT

約翰-布朗是一個非暴力的廢奴主義者，直到他的年齡。

51 YEARS OLD.

51歲。

HIS GRANDFATHER FOUGHT WITH GEORGE WASHINGTON.

他的祖父和喬治-華盛頓一起戰鬥。

HE HAD A BIG PROBLEM WITH THE CONSTITUTION AND ITS

他對憲法和憲法的內容有很大的問題。

RELATIONSHIP TO THE EQUALITY OF MAN KIND.

與人類平等的關係。

SO HE BECAME A STAUNCH ABOLITIONEST.

所以他成了一個廢除死刑的人。

SO JOHN BROWN WAS THIS MAN'S GRANDSON.

所以約翰・布朗是這個人的孫子。

HIS FATHER AND HE WAS AN ABOLITIONIST.

他的父親和他是一個廢奴主義者。

WHEN HIS SONS WENT DOWN TO SETTLE IN KANSAS, BECAUSE KANSAS

當他的兒子們到堪薩斯州定居時，因為堪薩斯州。

WAS A TERRITORY, RIGHT, AND THIS IS A BRIEF HISTORY, BUT KANSAS

是一個領土，正確的，這是一個簡短的歷史，但堪薩斯州。

WAS A TERRITORY, AND IT WAS ABOUT TO BECOME A STATE, AND IF

是一個領土，它即將成為一個國家，如果

IT WENT PRO-SLAVE THAT WOULD THROW THE SENATE ONE WAY, AND IF

它去支持奴隸，這將使參議院的一個方向，如果

IT WAS A FREE STATE IT WOULD THROW THE SENATE ANOTHER WAY.

這是一個自由州，它會把參議院扔到另一個方向。

THE ABOLITIONISTS WERE MOVING TO KANSAS TO VOTE FOR SLAVERY.

廢奴主義者們正在遷往堪薩斯州，為奴隸制投票。

AND POOR PEOPLE IN MISSOURI, THEY'RE SETTLING THEM TO KANSAS

而密蘇里州的可憐人，他們正把他們安置到堪薩斯州。

TO VOTE FOR SLAVERY.

投票支持奴隸制。

THIS TURNED INTO BLOODY KANSAS.

這變成了血腥的KANSAS。

PEOPLE STARTED ATTACKING JOHN BROWN'S SON.

人們開始攻擊約翰・布魯恩的兒子。 People started attacking John BROWN's son.

AFTER A LIFETIME OF BEING A NONVIOLENT ABOLITIONIST,

在做了一輩子的非暴力廢奴主義者之後，

SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO FORCE PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH.

有時你必須強迫人們理解真相。

HE WAS A CALVINIST AND A VERY SERIOUS CHRISTIAN WHO TOOK THE

他是一個加爾維尼教派，一個非常虔誠的基督徒，他接受了上帝的恩典。

IDEA WE WERE MADE BY THE SAME MAKE TORE HEART AND HE WENT TO

我們的想法是由同一製造撕毀他的心，他去了。

REMIND EVERYBODY AND WAS WILLING TO GET INTO A FIGHT.

提醒大家，並願意去打架。

TO HE'S GREAT SURPRISE -- I PLAYED THE MAN, I THOUGHT HE WAS

讓他大吃一驚 -- 我扮演了那個人，我以為他是...

GOING TO GET KILLED QUICKLY.

會被迅速殺死。

TO HIS GREAT SURPRISE, HE WAS GREAT ADD GUNFIGHTING.

讓他大吃一驚的是，他的槍法很好。

HE LED A RAID.

他發了一個RAID。

HE TOOK OVER THE NATION'S LARGEST ARMORY, HARPER'S FERRY,

他接管了全國最大的陸軍，哈伯爾費裡。

WITH A BUNCH OF BLACK AND WHITE FOLKS WORKING TOGETHER, THEY

一群黑人和白人在一起工作的時候，他們

TOOK IT OVER HOPING TO INCITE A REVOLUTION.

把它接管了，希望引發一場革命。

HE FAILED AT THAT BUT WHAT HE SUCCEEDED TO DO WAS TO WAKE UP

他失敗了，但他成功地做了什麼，是喚醒了

AND SHAME THE WHITE CHRISTIAN NORTH AMERICANS, YOU KNOW THE

羞辱北美白人基督教徒，你知道嗎？

AMERICANS OF THE NORTH.

北方的美國人：

AND ABOUT 16 MONTHS AFTER HE WAS HUNG, THE CIVIL WAR STARTED.

在他被絞死後16個月左右，內戰開始了。

>> Stephen: THIS IS AN INCREDIBLY IN SOME WAYS A VERY

>> Stephen:這是一個在某些方面非常的

DARK STORY, INCREDIBLY DRAMATIC STORY.

黑暗的故事，極具戲劇性的故事。

IT'S ALSO FUNNY AT THE SAME TIME.

這也是有趣的在同一時間。

HOW DID YOU -- WHAT DID YOU INTEND -- I KNOW YOU INTENDED.

你是怎麼... 你是怎麼打算的... 我知道你是打算的。

WHAT I MEANT TO SAY IS DID YOU KNOW THAT YOU COULD GET AWAY

我想說的是，你知道你可以離開嗎？

WITH THIS TO MAKE JOHN BROWN NOT ONLY A DRAMATIC SORT OF PROFECK

這讓約翰-布魯恩不僅是個戲劇性的人物，也是個戲劇性的人物。

FIGURE BUT ALSO AN EXTREMELY FLAWED AND FUNNY ONE AT THE SAME

圖，但也是一個非常缺陷和有趣的一個在同一。

TIME.

時間。

>> YOU KNOW THIS BETTER THAN ANYBODY.

>> 你比任何人都清楚這一點。

IF YOU TALK -- IF YOU YELL AT PEOPLE AND PREACH AT THEM AND

如果你說話 -- 如果你對人大喊大叫，對他們說教，然後：

TELL THEM THEY'RE WRONG AND TRY TO TEACH THEM WHAT'S THE RIGHT

告訴他們，他們是錯的，並試圖教他們什麼是正確的。

THING TO DO, NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR THAT.

要做的事，沒人願意聽。

IF YOU MAKE THEM LAUGH, THEY CAN SEE THE TRUTH OFT WHAT YOU'RE

如果你讓他們笑了，他們就能看到你說的真話。

SAYING AND DON'T FEEL ATTACKED.

說，不要覺得被攻擊了。

AND THE GENIUS MAGIC TRICK OF JAMES McBRIDE, THE AUTHOR OF

和《詹姆斯-麥克布萊德》作者的天才魔術把戲。

THIS STORY, HE WON THE NATIONAL BOOK AWARD IN 2013, IS HE MAKES

這個故事，他在2013年獲得了國家圖書獎，是他使

YOU LAUGH AND MAKES YOUR HEART THROB WITH LOVE AND HEALING OVER

你笑了，讓你的心被愛和療愈所包圍。

OUR CON'S GREATEST -- OUR COUNTRY'S GREATEST WOUND.

我們的CON'S GREATEST -- 我們國家最大的傷痕。

>> Stephen: IT HAS BEEN SO LONG SINCE JOHN BROWN WAS HANGED

>> Stephen:約翰-布朗被吊死已經很久了。

IN 1859, BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS STORY SPEAKS TO IN OUR

在1859年，但你認為這個故事說明了什麼？

PRESENT TIME OF RACIAL RECKONING IN 2020?

目前2020年的種族決裂時間？

>> WELL, WHAT I HOPE IS THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE IS THAT OUR

>> 好吧，我希望的是，人們可以看到的是，我們。

COUNTRY HAS BEEN HERE BEFORE.

國家已經在這裡之前。

THE BLOOD HAS ALREADY BEEN SHED.

鮮血已經流盡。

WE KNOCKED DOWN THIS DOORWAY.

我們敲開了這扇門。

THERE'S A LINE IN THE SHOW THAT McBRIDE WRITES ABOUT HARRIET

麥克布萊德在劇中寫了一句關於哈麗特的臺詞。

TUBMAN SAYS, THE DOORSTEP OF CHANGE IS OPEN, YOU KNOW,

TUBMAN說，變革的門檻已經打開，你知道的。

FREEDOM IS THERE, WE JUST HAVE TO WALK THROUGH IT.

自由就在那裡，我們只需要走過去。

AND I THINK PEOPLE LIKE HARRIET TUBMAN AND JOHN BROWN AND

我覺得像哈麗特-圖布曼和約翰-布朗這樣的人。

FREDERIC DOUGLAS AND SOJOURNER TRUTH, THESE PEOPLE WOULD BE

弗雷德裡克-道格拉斯和 "旅行者的真相"，這些人將會是。

HEART BROKEN TO SEE THAT YOUNG PEOPLE TODAY HAVE TO MARCH, AND

看到今天的年輕人要遊行，我心都碎了，而且......。

THEY HAVE TO.

他們必須這樣做。

WE HAVE TO.

我們必須這樣做。

WE HAVE TO DEMAND SOCIAL JUSTICE.

我們必須要求社會正義。

WE HAVE TO WALK THROUGH THIS DOOR, YOU KNOW.

我們必須穿過這扇門，你知道的。

AND I THINK THEY WOULD BE SHOCKED.

我想他們會很震驚的。

NONE OF THESE PEOPLE WANTED THAT BLOODSHED ANYMORE THAN YOU OR I

這些人沒有一個人比你我更想得到那血腥的東西。

DOSM NONE OF THESE PEOPLE WANTED VIOLENCE.

DOSM這些人都不想要暴力。

BUT WE ALREADY DID THIS, YOU KNOW, AND THE JOHN BROWN STORY

但我們已經做了這個，你知道，和約翰-布朗的故事。

PUTS A MICROSCOPE -- YOU KNOW, THIS EXPRESSION EVERYBODY

推一個顯微鏡 - 你知道，這種表達，每個人的

THROWING AROUND, SYSTEMIC RACISM, JOHN BROWN, IF YOU LOOKT

扔來扔去，系統性的種族主義，約翰-布朗，如果你看了。

AT HIS STORY, IT TURNS THE MICROSCOPE TO THE DNA WITH WHICH

在他的故事中，它將微觀視角轉向了DNA，其中

THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT, AND IT'S GOT SOME DESIGN FLAWS, YOU KNOW,

這個國家的建設，它有一些設計缺陷，你知道的。

FROM THE ZONING OF OUR CITIES TO OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM TO OUR POLICE

從我們的城市分區到我們的學校系統，再到我們的警察。

FORCE TO THE WAYTT THAT WE THINK AND TREAT EACH OTHER.

迫使我們思考和對待對方的方式。

YOU KNOW, IT'S GOT SOME FUNDAMENTAL DESIGN FLAWS, AND IF

你知道，它有一些基本的設計缺陷，而如果。

WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT AND LAUGH ABOUT IT AND SAY THE WRONG THING

我們不能談論它，嘲笑它，說錯誤的事情。

AND FORGIVE EACH OTHER AND WORK TOWARDS IT, THEN THE DIALOGUE

原諒對方，併為之努力，然後再進行對話。

KEEPS SHUTTING DOWN AND WHEN THE DIALOGUE SHUTS DOWN, NOTHING'S

一直關閉，當對話關閉時，什麼都沒有。

GOING TO GET BETTER.

會變得更好。

THAT'S MY THOUGHT.

這是我的想法。

THAT'S MY SOAPBOX.

這是我的肥皂盒。

>> Stephen: WELL DONE.

>> Stephen:做得很好。

WELL DONE.

做得很好。

"THE GOOD LORD BIRD" PREMIERES SUNDAY NIGHT ON SHOWTIME.

"好耶和華鳥 "週日晚在SHOWTIME首播。

ETHAN HAWKE, EVERYBODY.

ETHAN HAWKE，EVERYBODY。

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH FORMER LEAD PROSECUTOR FOR THE MUELLER

我們馬上回來，由MUELLER案的首席檢察官為我們服務

INVESTIGATION, ANDREW WEISSMANN.

調查，安德魯-魏斯曼。

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