For 90 minutes.

90分鐘

The pressure America is under was laid bare.

美國所承受的壓力暴露無遺。

MSNBC called it a dark event.

MSNBC稱這是一個黑暗的事件。

CNN called it Ah, hot mess Inside a dumpster fire inside a train wreck on the interruptions and insults cast a shadow over proceedings.

CNN稱其為啊，熱的一塌糊塗 內的垃圾箱火災內的火車殘骸上的中斷和侮辱投下陰影的程序。

So much so that the commission which organizes them now says it's gonna bring a new measures to ensure amore orderly discussion of the issues in the next two debates.

以至於組織這些活動的委員會現在表示，它將帶來一項新的措施，以確保在接下來的兩次辯論中更有序地討論這些問題。

Well, in the coming minutes, we're gonna work through the key moments and the fallout from an infamous night starting with President Trump passing up the chance to condemn white supremacists.

好了，在接下來的幾分鐘裡，我們將通過關鍵時刻和一個臭名昭著的夜晚的後果，從特朗普總統放棄譴責白人至上主義者的機會開始。

Do you want to call them?

你想給他們打電話嗎？

What do you want to call them?

你想叫他們什麼？

Give me your name.

告訴我你的名字

Give me what's the promise that right, like me to conduct crowd voice, right?

給我的承諾是什麼，對吧，像我這樣進行民眾的聲音，對吧？

Problem.

有問題

Stand back and stand by.

退而求其次，嚴陣以待。

But I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what somebody's got to do.

但我會告訴你，我會告訴你有人要做什麼。

Something about Antifa and the left.

一些關於反法和左派的東西。

So the president passed up the chance to address white supremacy.

所以總統放棄瞭解決白人至上主義的機會。

He did though, tell a far right group, the proud boys, to stand by Well, now he sought to clarify this.

但他確實告訴了一個極右集團，驕傲的男孩們，站在好，現在他試圖澄清這一點。

He says he's always denounced white supremacist.

他說他一直在譴責白人至上主義。

That's not true, and here's what he said about the proud boys.

不是這樣的，他是這樣評價那些驕傲的男孩的。

I don't know who the proud boys are.

我不知道那些驕傲的男孩是誰。

You have to give me a definition because I really don't know who they are.

你必須給我一個定義，因為我真的不知道他們是誰。

I can only say they have to stand down, let law enforcement do their work.

我只能說他們要退下來，讓執法部門去做他們的工作。

But to be clear, he didn't address white supremacy when asked to during the debate on Did refer to the proud boys now.

但要明確的是，他在辯論中被問及白人至上主義時，並沒有提到現在的驕傲男孩。

Earlier, the Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, was asked about the president's handling of this issue.

此前，參議院共和黨領袖米奇-麥康奈爾被問及總統對這一問題的處理。

In the debate, he said, the president condemns white supremacists in the strongest possible way.

他說，在辯論中，總統以最強烈的方式譴責白人至上主義者。

Well, have listened to Washington Post columnist Brian Class.

好了，已經聽華盛頓郵報專欄作家布萊恩類。

He sees it differently.

他的看法不同。

It's not that he just didn't condemn it.

他也不是沒有譴責過。

It's that he gave an instruction to this group as though he was their leader, he said.

他說，就是他給這群人下了一個指令，好像他是他們的上司。

Stand by as though he's waiting for further instructions if there is election related violence.

如果發生與選舉有關的暴力事件，他就像在等待進一步的訓示一樣待命。

So I think the tensions and the polarization around the election are so great, and President Trump's language so explosive that I'm very worried about violence around the November elections.

所以我認為，圍繞著大選的緊張局勢和兩極分化是如此之大，特朗普總統的語言如此具有爆炸性，我非常擔心11月大選前後的暴力事件。

Joe Biden was asked about these concerns today.

喬-拜登今天被問及這些問題。

Here's what he said.

他是這樣說的。

If in fact, we win this election, this president step down.

如果我們真的贏得了這次選舉，這個總統就下臺。

It's a lot of provider.

這是很多供應商。

He has no alternative.

他別無選擇。

The American people will not stand for it.

美國人民是不會容忍的。

No agency would stand for that happening.

任何機構都不會容忍這種情況發生。

My message to the proud boys and every other white supremacist group is cease and desist.

我對驕傲男孩和其他所有白人至上主義組織的資訊是停止和停止。

That's not who we are.

我們不是這樣的人

This is not who we are as Americans.

這不是我們作為美國人的身份。

Well, if you don't know off the proud boys.

如果你不知道那些驕傲的男孩。

This is a group that was founded in 2016.

這是一個成立於2016年的團體。

It's far right, anti immigrant and all mail.

這是極右，反移民，都是郵件。

It has a strict membership protocol.

它有嚴格的會員協議。

In order to join, members have to declare that they are Ah, Western show Veniste, who refuses to apologize for creating the modern world.

為了加入，會員必須聲明自己是啊，西方節目維尼斯特，他拒絕為創造現代世界而道歉。

They become notorious for violent confrontations.

他們因暴力對抗而變得臭名昭著。

They frequently faced off against opposition groups Facebook, instagram, Twitter and YouTube of all banned the proud boys.

他們經常面對反對派團體Facebook，instagram，Twitter和YouTube的所有禁止驕傲的男孩。

Facebook says it considers it ah hate organization, but we know it does still continue to use private social media channels like telegram and parlay.

Facebook說，它認為它是啊仇恨組織，但我們知道它仍然繼續使用私人社交媒體管道，如telegram和parlay。

There are a number of reports in US media that members of the proud boys were celebrating the president's refusal to condemn them.

美國媒體有不少報道稱，驕子們的成員正在慶祝總統拒絕譴責他們。

The other group reference in that section of the debate was Antifa.

該節辯論中提到的另一個群體是反法。

That's short for anti fascist.

那是反法西斯主義的簡稱。

It's not a coherent group.

這不是一個連貫的團體。

Maura Loose affiliation of mostly far left activists and some antifa activists have a track record of using violence to make their point.

Maura Loose隸屬的大多是極左派活動家和一些反法活動家有使用暴力來表達他們的觀點的記錄。

They've bean prominent during black lives matter protests on, have frequently clashed with opposition groups on with police to be clear, proud boys and anti for a relatively small perhaps a few 1000 active supporters of most something even less than that.

他們在黑人生命問題的抗議活動中已經豆突出上，經常與反對派團體發生衝突上與警察要清楚，驕傲的男孩和反為比較小也許幾千活躍的支持者的大多數東西甚至比這更少。

But their willingness to use violence on occasions means they get a disproportionate amount of attention.

但他們願意在某些場合使用暴力，意味著他們受到了過多的關注。

So remarkably, one issue was the president refusing to condemn white supremacy.

所以值得注意的是，有一個問題是總統拒絕譴責白人至上主義。

The next issue is how moderator Chris Wallace struggled to contain Donald Trump's continual interruptions.

下一個問題是主持人克里斯-華萊士如何努力遏制唐納德-特朗普的不斷干擾。

He is one of many examples we're moving on, didn't take them, Vice president can't be honest.

他是眾多例子中的一個，我們正在繼續前進，沒有拿下他們，副總統不能老實。

It's a very important thio up Know the answer to that question is, no Ukraine.

這是一個非常重要的hio起來知道這個問題的答案是，沒有烏克蘭。

No, sir.

不，先生。

With a billion dollars of that, You know what?

有了這十億美金，你知道嗎？

You're not You're doing it.

你不是你在做。

You're gonna have true gentlemen, is e hate to raise my voice, but he seems to be.

你會有真正的紳士，是我討厭提高我的聲音，但他似乎是。

Why should I be different than the two of you?

我為什麼要和你們兩個人不一樣？

The country would be better served if we allowed both people to speak with fewer interruptions.

如果我們允許這兩個人在說話的時候少一些干擾，對國家會有更好的幫助。

I'm appealing to you, sir, to do that and him too.

我呼籲你，先生，這樣做，還有他。

Well, frankly, you've been doing Mawr interrupted.

好吧，坦白說，你一直在做Mawr中斷。

But he does plenty well, less than sir.

但他做得很好，比先生少。

Less than plenty, no less than you have.

少了很多，沒有少了你的。

Let's please continue one.

請大家繼續一。

There's plenty more of that.

還有很多的。

It was always gonna be difficult.

它總是會很難。

One columnist for the New York magazine tweeted.

紐約》雜誌的一位專欄作家在推特上說。

People are hating on Chris Wallace, but I think there was no way to moderate this debate effectively on Apple.

人們對克里斯-華萊士恨之入骨，但我認為沒有辦法在蘋果上有效地主持這場辯論。

Bam of the Atlantic argues this was intentional.

大西洋的巴姆認為，這是故意的。

She says the point of Trump's performance in that debate was to undermine confidence in the election on democracy itself.

她說，特朗普在那場辯論中的表現，是為了破壞人們對民主本身的選舉信心。

Mr Trump himself has responded, saying Chris had a tough night.

特朗普先生本人也做出了迴應，他說克里斯有一個艱難的夜晚。

Two on one was not surprising but fun.

二對一併不意外，但很有趣。

He says two things to note about Chris Wallace.

他說，關於克里斯-華萊士，有兩點需要注意。

He's a registered Democrat, but he also works for Fox News and Network that's consistently supportive of the president on As I mentioned earlier, the commission, which runs these debates, says the rules now need to be changed.

他是一個註冊的民主黨人，但他也為福克斯新聞和網絡工作，該網絡一直支持總統在我前面提到的，運行這些辯論的委員會表示，現在需要改變規則。

In a statement, it says last night debate made clear the additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues.

它在一份聲明中說，昨晚的辯論清楚地表明，應在其餘辯論的形式中增加額外的結構，以確保更有序地討論問題。

Well, let's get further analysis from the BBC's Barbara Plett Usher in Washington, D.

好吧，讓我們從BBC駐華盛頓的Barbara Plett Usher那裡得到進一步的分析。

C.

C.

After the debate last night, commentators who frankly looked visibly shocked said, Let's stop here.

昨晚的辯論結束後，坦率地說顯得明顯震驚的評論員說，我們就到此為止吧。

Why would we want to have another one of these?

我們為什麼要再來一個這樣的人？

What's the point of that?

這有什麼意義？

Now you have this commission statement saying yes, More structured is needed for orderly discussion.

現在你有了這個委員會的聲明，說是的，需要更多的結構化來進行有序的討論。

We are considering new tools, and we'll let you know what they are.

我們正在考慮新的工具，我們會讓你知道它們是什麼。

Shortly now there have been calls for things like theme moderator being able to cut the mic or to end the debate early.

不久前，有人呼籲主題主持人能夠切掉話筒或提前結束辯論等。

If it gets out of hand and barren mine draws that the next debate is going to be a different format.

如果失控，貧瘠的礦井抽到下一場辯論會的形式就不一樣了。

It's going to be a town hall format in which ordinary people ask questions.

這將是一個市政廳的形式，普通人提出問題。

So that might be a format that's less likely to be dominated by Mr Trump in this way, because Hey did seem to be very calculated about his barrage of insults and interruptions.

是以，這可能是一種不太可能被特朗普先生以這種方式主導的格式，因為嘿似乎確實非常計算他的一連串侮辱和中斷。

And so when it did seem to be a tactic of disruption, which even his own people said was too hot.

所以當它確實是一種連自己人都說太火爆的搗亂策略。

Now Mr Biden himself has said that he's going to continue with these debates no matter what, and in fact he made quite a lot of money for his campaign during last night's debate.

現在拜登先生自己也說了，無論如何他都會繼續參加這些辯論，事實上他在昨晚的辯論中為自己的競選活動賺了不少錢。

So that's at least an incentive to keep going.

所以這至少是一種激勵，讓我們繼續前進。

But you do wonder how many more people are going to keep keep on tuning in.

但你確實不知道還有多少人要繼續保持收看。

If the commission doesn't come up with something that can actually bring order to this and make it a debate rather than a sort of fiasco on Barbara, I'm losing count of the number of commentators who are either writing articles or going on TV or tweeting that this is now a crisis in American democracy.

如果委員會不拿出一些東西，能真正給這件事帶來秩序，讓它成為一場辯論，而不是在芭芭拉上的某種慘敗，我都快數不清有多少評論員要麼寫文章，要麼上電視，要麼發推特，說這現在是美國民主的危機。

What we saw last night, what we've seen more generally, you've been covering American politics for a long while.

我們昨晚看到的，我們更普遍看到的，你已經報道美國政治很長時間了。

Do you think that's overstating it?

你覺得這是不是太誇張了？

Well, I mean, President Trump has been chipping away at the norms and institutions of democracy for the past four years, but I would say that has escalated in recent months in the sense that he has begun to actively cast doubt on the democratic process itself.

好吧，我的意思是，特朗普總統在過去四年裡一直在削去民主的規範和制度，但我想說的是，最近幾個月，這種情況已經升級，在某種意義上，他已經開始積極地對民主進程本身產生懷疑。

So he has said that mail in voting will lead to massive fraud when there's no evidence that that that that's the case, he has not committed himself to accepting the results of the election.

所以他說郵寄投票會導致大規模的舞弊，但沒有證據表明是這樣，他沒有承諾接受選舉結果。

If he thinks that there is broad, he's not even committed to a peaceful transition of power, which is really bedrock stuff for democracy.

如果他認為有廣泛的，他甚至沒有致力於權力的和平過渡，這真的是民主的基石東西。

So I think the trajectory is alarming.

所以，我認為這個軌跡是驚人的。

Um is democracy right now in crisis here?

嗯，現在這裡的民主有危機嗎？

I would say at the very least the foundations of democracy in the US are being tested.

我想說，至少美國的民主基礎正在接受考驗。

And just quickly, Barbara, how we looking in the polls at the moment?

很快的，芭芭拉，現在的民調情況如何？

Mr.

先生

Biden still up?

拜登還沒睡？

I assume.

我想。

Yeah, there haven't been a lot of numbers since the debate itself, but he has had a very stable lead over President Trump for quite a while in the single digits between six and 10% on.

是的，自從辯論本身以來，還沒有很多數字，但他已經有一個非常穩定的領先於特朗普總統相當一段時間，在6到10%之間的個位數上。

Also, he has leads in in a number of swing states as well.

另外，他在一些搖擺州也有領先優勢。

The feeling going into the debate was that Mr Trump was on the defensive.

進入辯論的感覺是，特朗普先生是在防守。

He would need Thio shift attention away from himself towards Mr Biden and his presumed weaknesses.

他需要Thio將注意力從自己身上轉移到拜登先生和他假定的弱點上。

Now that didn't happen.

現在這一切都沒有發生。

As we've seen, it was very much center stage on his disruptive tactics.

正如我們所看到的，這是他的破壞性戰術上非常重要的中心舞臺。

So some analysts are saying there was no winner there For Joe Biden is the winner because he's out in front now.

所以有些分析家說，那裡沒有贏家，因為喬-拜登是贏家，因為他現在領先了。

This is one of these moments when the world watches American democracy, and it's fair to say a lot of people were unimpressed.

這就是世界看美國民主的一個時刻，可以說很多人都不以為然。

In Germany, Desh Beagle said the debate was a TV Jewell like a car accident.

在德國，德什-比格說，這場辯論是一場像車禍一樣的電視珠寶。

State run Chinese newspaper Global Times called it the most chaotic presidential debate ever.

國營中文報紙《環球時報》稱這是史上最混亂的總統辯論。

Italian newspaper La Repubblica declared that American politics had never sunk so low and that it was chaotic, rowdy and based on mutual contempt.

意大利《共和國報》宣稱，美國政治從來沒有如此沉淪，它是混亂的、喧囂的、建立在相互蔑視基礎上的。

Or you could read the times here in the UK, describing it as not a debate in any meaningful sense, but rather an ill tempered, at times incomprehensible squabble between two angry step veterinarians who palpably loathe each other on the BBC's Nick Bryant, one of our correspondents in America.

或者，你可以在英國這裡閱讀時代，將其描述為不是任何有意義的辯論，而是兩個憤怒的步驟獸醫之間的脾氣不好，有時無法理解的爭吵，他們明顯地厭惡對方BBC的尼克布萊恩特，我們在美國的記者之一。

He put it this way.

他是這樣說的。

When historians assessed the self inflicted harm America did its international reputation in the early 21st century, the Florida debacle will be on the list that's the 2000 election.

當歷史學家評估美國在21世紀初對其國際聲譽造成的自我傷害時，佛羅里達州的潰敗將在2000年大選的名單上。

Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib On this first presidential debate, watch the world over incalculable soft power damage, says Nick Well, President Trump's former national security adviser, General H.

關塔那摩、阿布格萊布 在這場首次總統辯論中，特朗普總統的前國家安全顧問尼克-韋爾將軍說，看世界上不可估量的軟實力損害。

R.

R.

McMaster, has spoken to BBC World News today and picks up on some of those themes, saying, These deep divisions on show are harming America.

麥克馬斯特，今天已經對BBC世界新聞進行了採訪，並挑起了其中的一些主題，他說：這些深層的分歧的表現正在傷害美國。

We're acting like are our own worst enemies.

我們的行為就像我們自己最大的敵人。

And so is Aziz.

阿齊茲也是

You allude to the Russia in particular, is trying to drag us down, trying to polarize all of our societies, pit us against each other.

特別是你提到的俄羅斯，是想把我們拖垮，想把我們所有的社會分化，讓我們互相對立。

You really amplify thes, narrow identities, uh, in a way that it reduces our confidence in who we are as a people and in our democratic principles and institutions and processes.

你真的放大了，狹隘的身份，呃，在某種程度上，它降低了我們的信心，我們是誰作為一個民族，在我們的民主原則和制度和程序。