and how Dolly Parton helped me figure it out.

以及多莉帕頓是如何幫我解決的。

So I've been telling audio stories for about 20 years,

所以我講音頻故事已經有20年了。

first on the radio and then in podcasts.

先是在電臺，然後在播客中。

When I started the radio show "Radiolab" in 2002,

當我開始廣播節目 "Radiolab "在2002年。

here was the quintessential story move we would do.

這是典型的故事動作，我們會做。

We'd bring on somebody --

我們會找人...

(Audio) Steven Strogatz: It's one of the most hypnotic

史蒂文-斯特羅加茨：這是最有催眠效果的一種。

and spellbinding spectacles in nature,

和自然界中令人神魂顛倒的景象。

because, you have to keep in mind, it is absolutely silent.

因為，你要記住，它是絕對沉默的。

Jad Abumrad: Like this guy, mathematician, Steve Strogatz,

賈德-阿布姆拉德：比如這個人，數學家，史蒂夫-斯特羅加茨。

and he would paint a picture.

他就會畫一幅畫。

SS: Picture it. There's a riverbank in Thailand,

SS：想象一下吧。泰國有一條河岸。

in the remote part of the jungle,

在叢林的偏遠地區。

you're in a canoe, slipping down the river.

你在一個獨木舟， 滑下河。

There's no sound of anything,

沒有任何聲音。

maybe the occasional, you know, exotic jungle bird or something.

也許偶爾，你知道，異國情調的叢林鳥什麼的。

JA: So you're in this imaginary canoe with Steve,

JA：所以你在這個想象中的獨木舟與史蒂夫。

and in the air all around you are millions of fireflies.

在你周圍的空氣中，有數百萬只螢火蟲。

And what you see is sort of a randomized starry-night effect.

而你看到的是一種隨機的星夜效應。

Because all the fireflies are blinking at different rates.

因為所有的螢火蟲都在以不同的速度閃爍。

Which is what you would expect.

這是你所期望的。

But according to Steve, in this one place,

但據史蒂夫說，在這一個地方。

for reasons no scientist can fully explain --

出於沒有科學家能夠完全解釋的原因 --

SS: Whoop.

SS：喔。

Whoop.

哇哦

Whoop.

哇哦

With thousands of lights on and then off, all in sync.

有了上千盞燈的開啟，然後再關閉，所有的燈都是同步的。

(Music and electric sounds)

(音樂和電聲)

JA: Now it's around this time

JA：現在是這個時候

that I would generally bring in the beautiful music, as I just did,

我一般都會像剛才那樣，把優美的音樂帶進來。

and you'd start to get that warm feeling.

你會開始得到那種溫暖的感覺。

A feeling, that we know from science,

一種感覺，我們從科學中知道。

kind of localizes in your head and chest

在你的頭部和胸部的一種局部

and spreads through your body.

並在你的身體裡蔓延。

It's that feeling of wonder.

就是那種奇妙的感覺。

From 2002 to 2010, I did hundreds of these stories.

從2002年到2010年，我做了幾百個這樣的故事。

Sciency, neurosciency, very heady, brainy stories

科學性、神經科學性、很牛逼、腦洞大開的故事。

that would always resolve into that feeling of wonder.

總會化解成那種奇妙的感覺。

And I began to see that as my job,

我開始把這看作是我的工作。

to lead people to moments of wonder.

來引領人們進入奇蹟的時刻。

What that sounded like was:

這話聽起來像是。

(Various voices) "Huh!" "Wow!" "Wow!"

（各種聲音）"咦！""哇！""哇！"

"That's amazing."

"真是太神奇了。"

"Whoa!" "Wow!"

"哇！""哇！"

JA: But I began to get kind of tired of these stories.

JA：但我開始對這些故事有點厭倦了。

I mean, partially, it was the repetition.

我的意思是，部分原因是重複。

I remember there was a day I was sitting at the computer,

記得有一天，我坐在電腦前。

making the sound of a neuron.

發出神經元的聲音。

(Crackling sound)

（噼裡啪啦的聲音）

You know, take some white noise, chop it up, very easy sound to make.

你知道，拿一些白噪音，把它切碎，很容易發出聲音。

I remember thinking, "I have made this sound 25 times."

我記得我在想，"我已經發出這個聲音25次了。"

But it was more than that --

但這還不止於此 --

there was a familiar path to these stories.

這些故事有一個熟悉的路徑。

You walk the path of truth, which is made of science,

你走在真理的道路上，這是由科學構成的。

and you get to wonder.

你就會想知道。

Now, I love science, don't get me wrong.

現在，我喜歡科學，不要誤會我的意思。

My parents emigrated from a war-torn country,

我的父母是從一個戰亂的國家移民過來的。

came to America,

來到美國。

and science for them was, like, more their identity than anything else,

和科學對他們來說是一樣， 更多的是他們的身份比什麼都重要。

and I inherited that from them.

我從他們那裡繼承了這一點。

But there was something about that simple movement

但是，那個簡單的動作有什麼意義呢？

from science to wonder

從科學到奇蹟

that just started to feel wrong to me.

這只是開始 感覺不對我。

Like, is that the only path a story can take?

就像，故事只有這一條路可以走嗎？

Around 2012,

2012年前後。

I ran into a bunch of different stories that made me think, "No."

我遇到了一堆不同的故事，讓我覺得，"不"。

One story in particular,

特別是一個故事。

where we interviewed a guy who described chemical weapons

我們採訪了一個描述化學武器的人

being used against him and his fellow villagers

被用來對付他和他的同村人

in the mountains of Laos.

在寮國的山區。

Western scientists went there,

西方科學家去了那裡。

measured for chemical weapons, didn't find any.

測量了化學武器，沒有發現任何化學武器。

We interviewed the man about this,

我們就此採訪了他。

he said the scientists were wrong.

他說，科學家們都錯了。

We said, "But they tested."

我們說，"但他們測試。"

He said, "I don't care, I know what happened to me."

他說："我不在乎，我知道我的遭遇。"

And we went back and forth and back and forth,

我們來來回回，來來回回。

and make a long story short,

並長話短說。

the interview ended in tears.

採訪以淚水結束。

I felt ...

我覺得...

I felt horrible.

我覺得很可怕。

Like, hammering at a scientific truth, when someone has suffered.

就像，錘鍊一個科學的真理，當有人遭受。

That wasn't going to heal anything.

那是不會治癒任何東西的。

And maybe I was relying too much on science to find the truth.

而也許我是太依賴科學來尋找真相了。

And it really did feel, at that moment,

而那一刻，真的覺得，。

that there were a lot of truths in the room,

那房間裡有很多真相。

and we were only looking at one of them.

而我們只看了其中的一個。

So I thought, "I've got to get better at this."

所以我想，"我一定要把這個做得更好。"

And so for the next eight years,

於是在接下來的八年裡。

I committed myself to doing stories where you heard truths collide.

我致力於做你聽到的真理碰撞的故事。

We did stories about the politics of consent,

我們做了關於同意政治的故事。

where you heard the perspective of survivors and perpetrators

在那裡你聽到了倖存者和施害者的觀點；

whose narratives clashed.

其敘事發生衝突。

We did stories about race,

我們做了關於種族的故事。

how black men are systematically eliminated from juries,

黑人是如何被系統地從陪審團中淘汰的。

and yet, the rules that try and prevent that from happening

然而，試圖阻止這種情況發生的規則。

only make things worse.

只會讓事情變得更糟。

Stories about counter terrorism, Guantanamo detainees,

關於反恐、關塔那摩被拘留者的故事。

stories where everything is disputed,

的故事，一切都有爭議。

all you can do is struggle to try and make sense.

你所能做的就是掙扎著去嘗試和理解。

And this struggle kind of became the point.

而這種鬥爭也算是成為了重點。

I began to think, "Maybe that's my job."

我開始想，"也許這就是我的工作。"

To lead people to moments of struggle.

引導人們走向奮鬥的時刻。

Here's what that sounded like:

這是什麼，聽起來像。

(Various voices) "But I see -- I, like --"

（各種聲音） "但我看到 - 我，喜歡 -"

"Uh, I --" (Sighs)

"呃，我--"（嘆氣）

"Well, so, like, huh --"

"嗯，所以，就像，呵呵--"

"That, I mean, I --"

"那個，我是說，我--"

"You know -- golly -- I --" (Sighs)

"你知道--天哪--我--"（嘆氣）

JA: And that sigh right there,

JA：還有那一聲嘆息就在那裡。

I wanted to hear that sound in every single story,

我想在每一個故事中都聽到這種聲音。

because that sound is kind of our current moment, right?

因為這種聲音是一種我們現在的時刻，對不對？

We live in a world where truth is no longer just a set of facts

我們生活在一個真理不再只是一組事實的世界裡。

to be captured.

要抓。

It's become a process.

這已經成為一個過程。

It's gone from being a noun to being a verb.

它從一個名詞變成了一個動詞。

But how do you end that story?

但你怎麼結束這個故事？

Like, what literally kept happening is we'd be, you know, telling a story,

就像，從字面上看，我們一直在發生的是，你知道，講一個故事。

cruising along, two viewpoints in conflict,

巡視，兩種觀點的衝突。

you get to the end and it's just like --

你得到的最後，它只是喜歡 -

No, let me see.

不，讓我看看。

What do I say at the end?

最後我怎麼說？

Oh, my God.

哦，我的上帝。

What do you -- how do you end that story?

你... 你怎麼結束這個故事？

You can't just happily-ever-after it,

你不能就這樣幸福地過下去。

because that doesn't feel real.

因為那感覺不真實

At the same time,

同時。

if you just leave people in that stuck place,

如果你只是讓人們在那個困頓的地方。

like, "Why did I just listen to that?"

像，"為什麼我只是聽了嗎？"

Like, it felt like there had to be another move there.

就像，感覺那裡必須有另一個動作。

Had to be a way beyond the struggle.

不得不說是一種超越奮鬥的方式。

And this is what brings me to Dolly.

這就是我為什麼會想到多莉。

Or Saint Dolly, as we like to call her in the South.

或者聖多莉，我們在南方喜歡叫她。

I want to tell you about one little glimmer of an epiphany that I had,

我想告訴你，我的一個小小的頓悟。

doing a nine-part series called "Dolly Parton's America" last year.

去年做了一個名為 "多莉-帕頓的美國 "的九部分系列。

It was a bit of a departure for me,

這對我來說，有點離經叛道。

but I just had this intuition that Dolly could help me

但我只是有這樣的直覺，多莉可以幫助我。

figure out this ending problem.

弄清楚這個結局問題。

And here was the basic intuition:

而這裡是基本的直覺。

You go to a Dolly concert,

你去看多莉的演唱會

you see men in trucker hats standing next to men in drag,

你會看到戴著卡車司機帽子的男人站在穿拖鞋的男人旁邊。

Democrats standing next to Republicans,

民主黨人站在共和黨人旁邊。

women holding hands,

牽手的女人。

every different kind of person smashed together.

每一個不同類型的人砸在一起。

All of these people that we are told should hate each other

所有這些人，我們被告知應該互相仇恨

are there singing together.

都在那裡一起唱歌。

She somehow carved out this unique space in America,

她以某種方式在美國開闢了這個獨特的空間。

and I wanted to know, how did she do that?

我想知道，她是怎麼做到的？

So I interviewed Dolly 12 times, two separate continents.

所以我採訪了12次多莉，兩個不同的大陸。

She started every interview this way:

她每次面試都是這樣開始的。

(Audio) Dolly Parton: Ask me whatever you ask me,

(音頻) Dolly Parton:問我什麼你問我。

and I'm going to tell you what I want you to hear.

我要告訴你我想讓你聽到的東西。

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

JA: She is undeniably a force of nature.

JA：她無疑是一種自然的力量。

But the problem that I ran into

但我遇到的問題是

is that I had chosen a conceit for this series

是我為這個系列選擇了一個設想。

that my soul had trouble with.

我的靈魂有問題。

Dolly sings a lot about the South.

多莉唱了很多關於南方的歌。

If you go through her discography,

如果你翻閱她的唱片記錄。

you will hear song after song about Tennessee.

你會聽到一首又一首關於田納西的歌。

(Music) DP: (Singing, various songs) Tennessee, Tennessee...

(音樂)DP：(唱，各種歌曲)田納西，田納西......。

Tennessee homesick ...

田納西州想家了...

I've got those Tennessee homesick blues runnin' through my head.

我腦海裡有田納西州的思鄉藍調。

Tennessee.

田納西州。

JA: "Tennessee Mountain Home," "Tennessee Mountain Memories."

JA："田納西山家園"，"田納西山記憶"。

Now I grew up in Tennessee,

現在我在田納西州長大。

and I felt no nostalgia for that place.

而我對那個地方沒有任何懷念的感覺。

I was the scrawny Arab kid

我就是那個瘦弱的阿拉伯孩子

who came from the place that invented suicide bombing.

誰來自發明自殺式爆炸的地方。

I spent a lot of time in my room.

我花了很多時間在我的房間裡。

When I left Nashville,

當我離開納什維爾時，

I left.

我離開了

I remember being at Dollywood,

我還記得在多莉木的時候。

standing in front of a replica, replica of her Tennessee Mountain Home.

站在她的田納西山莊的複製品前，複製品。

People all around me were crying.

我周圍的人都在哭。

This is a set.

這是一套。

Why are you crying?

你為什麼哭？

I couldn't understand why they were so emotional,

我不明白他們為什麼這麼情緒化。

especially given my relationship to the South.

特別是考慮到我和南方的關係。

And I started to honestly have panic attacks about this.

而我開始老實說對這個有恐慌症。

"Am I not the right person for this project?"

"我是不是不適合做這個項目？"

But then ...

但後來...

twist of fate.

命運的轉折。

We meet this guy, Bryan Seaver,

我們來見見這個人，布萊恩-西弗。

Dolly's nephew and bodyguard.

多莉的侄子和保鏢。

And on a whim, he drives producer Shima Oliaee and I

他一時興起，就開車帶著我和製作人希瑪-奧麗婭依

out of Dollywood,

從多利塢出來的。

round the back side of the mountains,

繞過後山的一面。

up the mountains 20 minutes,

上山20分鐘。

down a narrow dirt road,

在一條狹窄的土路上。

through giant wooden gates that look right out of "Game of Thrones,"

穿過巨大的木門，看起來就像 "權力的遊戲"。

and into the actual Tennessee Mountain Home.

並進入實際的天山家園。

But the real place.

但真正的地方。

Valhalla.

瓦爾哈拉

The real Tennessee Mountain Home.

真正的田納西山居。

And I'm going to score this part with Wagner,

而我要用瓦格納給這部分配樂。

because you've got to understand,

因為你得明白。

in Tennessee lore,

在田納西州的傳說中。

this is like hallowed ground, the Tennessee Mountain Home.

這就像聖地，田納西山莊。

So I remember standing there, on the grass,

所以我記得站在那裡，在草地上。

next to the Pigeon River,

旁邊的鴿子河。

butterflies doing loopty loops in the air,

蝴蝶在空中做環形圈。

and I had my own moment of wonder.

而我也有自己的奇蹟時刻。

Dolly's Tennessee Mountain Home

多莉的田納西山莊

looks exactly like my dad's home in the mountains of Lebanon.

看起來就像我爸爸在黎巴嫩山區的家一樣。

Her house looks just like the place that he left.

她的房子看起來就像他離開的地方。

And that simple bit of layering led me to have a conversation with him

就因為這簡單的一點鋪墊，讓我和他有了對話的機會

that I'd never had before,

我從來沒有過的。

about the pain he felt leaving his home.

關於他離家的痛苦。

And how he hears that in Dolly's music.

他是如何從多莉的音樂中聽到的。

Then I had a conversation with Dolly where she described her songs

然後我和多莉有一次談話，她描述了她的歌曲。

as migration music.

作為遷移音樂。

Even that classic song,

即使是那首經典的歌曲。

"Tennessee Mountain Home," if you listen to it --

"田納西山居"，如果你聽了它 --

(Dolly Parton "Tennessee Mountain Home")

(多莉-帕頓 "田納西山居")

"Sittin' on the front porch on a summer afternoon

"夏日午後，坐在前廊上

In a straight-backed chair on two legs,

在兩腿直背的椅子上。

leaned against the wall."

靠在牆上。"

It's about trying to capture a moment that you know is already gone.

這是關於試圖捕捉一個你知道已經過去的瞬間。

But if you can paint it, vividly,

但如果你能把它畫出來，生動地畫出來。

maybe you can freeze it in place, almost like in resin,

也許你可以把它凍在原地，就像在樹脂裡一樣。

trapped between past and present.

困在過去和現在之間。

That is the immigrant experience.

這就是移民的經歷。

And that simple thought led me to a million conversations.

而這個簡單的想法，卻讓我有了無數次的對話。

I started talking to musicologists about country music as a whole.

我開始和音樂學家討論鄉村音樂的整體情況。

This genre that I've always felt so

這種類型，我一直覺得是這樣的

having nothing to do with where I came from

籍籍無名

is actually made up of instruments and musical styles

其實是由樂器和音樂風格組成的

that came directly from the Middle East.

直接來自中東的。

In fact, there were trade routes that ran from what is now Lebanon

事實上，從現在的黎巴嫩開始，就有了貿易路線

right up into the mountains of East Tennessee.

直達東田納西州的山區。

I can honestly say, standing there, looking at her home,

我可以坦白地說，站在那裡，看著她的家。

was the first time I felt like I'm a Tennessean.

是我第一次覺得自己是個田納西人。

That is honestly true.

說實話，這是真的。

And this wasn't a one-time thing,

而且這不是一次性的事情。

I mean, over and over again,

我的意思是，一遍又一遍。

she would force me beyond the simple categories

她會迫使我超越簡單的範疇

I had constructed for the world.

我為這個世界構建的。

I remember talking with her about her seven-year partnership

我還記得和她聊過她七年的合作關係。

with Porter Wagoner.

與波特-瓦格納。

1967, she joins his band, he is the biggest thing in country music,

1967年，她加入了他的樂隊，他是鄉村音樂界最大的事情。

she is a backup singer, a nobody.