and hurting women.

和傷害婦女。

Men are consuming huge quantities of pornography,

男人正在消費大量的色情製品。

they have no idea where it comes from at all.

他們根本不知道它的來源。

They have no interest or concern about the performers.

他們對錶演者沒有任何興趣和關注。

Well I think people that watch it presume that it's acting.

好吧，我覺得看的人都會推測它是在演戲。

They presume that people are performing something to a script,

他們認為人們是在按照劇本表演什麼。

something that's been choreographed and that if they can go to the cinema

一些被編排的東西， 如果他們能去電影院，

and watch a violent movie where people are being paid to act

看一部暴力電影，在那裡人們被支付的行為。

then it isn't any different in pornography.

那麼它在色情業中也沒有什麼不同。

I think it's just a get out clause that people give to themselves

我覺得這只是人們給自己的一個退出條款而已。

because they want to see pretty vicious things being done to women.

因為他們想看到漂亮的惡毒的事情被做給女人看。

Think something that's really difficult for us to get our heads

想到一些對我們來說非常困難的事情。

round as ethical people, if we call ourselves that,

作為一個有道德的人，如果我們這樣稱呼自己。

is that desire amoral.

是那個慾望不道德。

Now it's not immoral but we might fantasise about things

現在不是不道德，但我們可能會幻想一些事情。

that we'd never have-- we'd never dream of doing in real life

我們從來沒有 - 我們從來沒有夢想過在現實生活中做的事情

and so pornography tends to fill that void.

所以色情作品往往會填補這個空白。

And if you could guarantee that that person wasn't harmed in the process

如果你能保證那個人在這個過程中不受到傷害的話

then is it wrong to want to watch that?

那麼，想看這個有錯嗎？

I think desire has to be moral right? If we're not putting our desires

我認為慾望必須是道德的吧？如果我們不把我們的慾望

to the test with our morals,

用我們的道德來檢驗。

then what is even the point of having morals, right?

那還有什麼道德可言呢？

I do firmly believe that there are ways of protecting our performers

我堅信，我們有辦法保護我們的表演者

involved in the porn industry.

涉足色情行業。

And I think it's really important to say that men can also be vulnerable,

而且我覺得說男人也可以很脆弱，這一點真的很重要。

to exploitation as well as women.

剝削以及婦女。

Even if we see men performing dominant acts and always being on top

即使我們看到男人在做主導行為，總是在上面

so to speak in the industry, we know that sometimes they're forced

可以這麼說，在行業內，我們知道，有時他們被迫

or encouraged to take Viagra way past the point of comfort.

或鼓勵服用偉哥的方式超過舒適點。

The nature of sexism is that it does come down harder on women.

性別歧視的本質是，它確實對婦女下手更狠。

A woman's career is shorter, the kind of acts that a women has to do

女人的職業生涯比較短，女人要做什麼樣的行為？

in pornography to collect the big bucks.

在色情領域收大錢。

Like, you are going age out of pornography at a very young age.

就像，你在很年輕的時候就會老出色情片。

And for women, that means doing stuff

而對於女人來說，這意味著做的東西

that is tougher and tougher on your body.

那是對你的身體更強硬，更堅韌。

From the perspective of someone that's been a sex worker

從一個曾經是性工作者的人的角度來看

and done sex-- sexual things with people that I didn't know,

和我不認識的人做過性事

didn't necessarily like or find attractive but that they were

不一定喜歡或覺得有吸引力，但他們是。

paying me to do those things with them...

給我錢讓我和他們一起做這些事情... ...

I would say that, in those situations,

我想說，在這些情況下。

I was happy to take the money

我很樂意接受這些錢

because it was preferable to lots of other kinds of work and I was often,

因為這比很多其他種類的工作要好，我經常。

you know, I was treated really well by and large.

你知道，我被對待真的很好的大。

Everything we did was consensual, I set the terms of it.

我們所做的一切都是自願的，是我設定的條件。

So, I don't think sex is the same for everyone.

所以，我認為性愛對每個人來說都不一樣。

The levels of trauma among women who sold sex are really, really high.

賣春女性的心理創傷程度真的非常非常高。

The level of exposure to other kinds of violence are really, really high.

其他類型的暴力的暴露程度真的非常高。

And that's true whether they're selling sex

不管他們是否在販賣性愛，都是如此

on a person to person basis

因人而異

or whether they're selling sex as part of pornography.

或者說他們是否把性作為色情製品的一部分來銷售。

You know, ten years ago we didn't have a discussion about ethical porn,

你知道，十年前我們還沒有討論過倫理色情的問題。

today we do.

今天，我們做到了。

Today there are numerous places you can go on the internet to find it.

如今，在互聯網上有很多地方可以去尋找它。

I think ethical porn and the stuff that's produced by women for women

我覺得倫理色情片和女人為女人制作的東西。

and by LBGT performers and producers, prove that there's another way

和LBGT表演者和製作人，證明還有另一種方式。

to make material.

來製作材料。

It's a really small coterie of people

這是一個真正的小圈子的人。

who are trying to produce ethical porn.

試圖製作倫理色情片的人。

The fact that they exist isn't making a difference

他們存在的事實並沒有什麼不同。

to the rest of the industry. You know, if I keep my own hens,

對行業的其餘部分。你知道，如果我自己養母雞。

that is not going to change the egg industry as a whole.

那是不會改變整個雞蛋行業的。

We should be really championing the people that are trying to do

我們應該真正支持那些正在努力做的人

something better and I don't think it is just like keeping your own hens.

更好的東西，我不認為它只是像你自己的母雞飼養。

It's a grassroots movement at the moment but with momentum and

目前雖然是草根運動，但勢頭和

consumer pressure it can grow.

消費者的壓力，它可以增長。

Thanks for watching! :)

謝謝你的觀看!:)

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不要忘記訂閱並點擊鈴鐺接收新視頻的通知。我們很快會再見面的