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  • I guess I was the cookie cutter straight, white, successful male.

    我想我曾經是個很典型的成功、白人男性。

  • Probably people would look at me and think, "Well, I'm probably like them and therefore a little bit homophobic as well."

    或許人們看著我會想:「我跟他們很像,所以我應該也有恐同症。」

  • And then I made the really difficult decision to come out.

    因此我在出櫃時做了一番很艱難的決定。

  • You know, I met a man that I fell in love with when I was nearly 40 and then I realised I was gay.

    我在將近 40 歲時才與一位男性墜入愛河,我才領悟到原來我是同性戀。

  • [Why are people homophobic?]

    [為什麼會有恐同症?]

  • [Richard Beaven is a financial services director and LGBT activist.]

    [Richard Beaven 為金融服務總監和 LGBT 活躍者。]

  • [He believes it's important to understand homophobia, in order to eradicate it.]

    [他認為要消除恐同症,了解恐同症是非常重要的。]

  • Mr. Mawby, do you think homosexuals should be sent to prison?

    Mawby 先生,請問你覺得同性戀者該送進大牢嗎?

  • -Yes. Of course if they are ... -Surrounded by other men or ...

    -是,當然要,如果他們… -被其他男人所圍繞或…

  • Unbelievable.

    難以置信。

  • [Homosexuality was illegal in England and Wales until 1967, but homophobia still remains today.]

    [在英國和威爾斯直到 1967 年同性關係才合法,但恐同現象至今都還存在。]

  • When I think about why people are homophobic, I think about a workshop that I ran in the city a couple of years ago.

    每當我思考為什麼人們有恐同症時,我就會想起幾年前我在城裡辦的一場工作坊。

  • It was really good, apart from this one guy who literally said nothing and he had his arms folded, clearly really uncomfortable about being there.

    那是個很棒的經驗,除了一位沈默不語並雙手抱胸的人,很明顯對參與活動感到很不自在。

  • So I stopped the conversation and I looked at him and I said, "I notice you are not engaging with this."

    我暫停了談話、看著他說:「我注意到你沒有在參與這一切。」

  • "You are not part of the conversation."

    「你都不有參與討論。」

  • And I said, "I suspect there are three things that I find a lot of people struggle to engage in this conversation with, and the first one is gay sex."

    然後我接著說:「我想有三件事情讓人們對於參與這樣的話題感到掙扎,第一件事就是同性之間的性行為。」

  • Lots of straight men find it very, very uncomfortable to think about how men have sex with men.

    許多異性戀男性對於想到男性與男性發生性關係感到非常不自在。

  • But we have to park that.

    但我們應該要停止這樣想。

  • We're not having a conversation around sex, we're having a conversation about inclusivity and making people feel welcome.

    我們的討論重點並不在於性關係,而是關於包容以及讓人們感到溫暖。

  • And then I said, "The second thing I think lots of people like you think is that, you know, that 'all men who are gay fancy all men.'"

    我接著說:「第二件事就是,大部分像你這樣的人會認為『同性戀男性喜歡所有男性』。」

  • And I said, "You're just not my type."

    我就說:「你不是我的菜。」

  • And he started to smile and I said, "But there's the third thing."

    他笑了,我又說:「但還有第三件事。」

  • And I said, "This is often a problem, is that, 'If I engage in this conversation then people might think I'm gay'."

    「這也很常是個問題,就是『如果我參與了話題,人們會覺得我是同性戀』。」

  • [On top of this, Richard believes the HIV crisis still casts a shadow.]

    [除此之外,Richard 認為愛滋病危機仍為同性族群的權益蒙上陰影。]

  • There is now a deadly virus which anyone can catch from sex with an infected person.

    現在有一種致命的病毒,任何人都可以因與被感染者發生性關係而被感染。

  • So protect yourself.

    所以保護好自己。

  • It's safer if you use a condom.

    使用保險套會安全許多。

  • So I think that crisis had a huge impact on or reinforced the fact that gay people are different.

    所以我認為這場危機對同性族群造成了重大的影響,或甚至放大了同性族群的不同之處。

  • And there was a lot of terrible language around "gay people spread diseases," and it was just ghastly at the time.

    關於「同性戀者散播病毒」有相當多衍伸的難聽言論,在當時非常可怕。

  • And I think that's influenced a whole generation in terms of the way they think about homosexuality.

    而我認為這影響了整個世代對於同性關係的理解。

  • -You know, Russia has got anti-gay legislation, Chechnya you find pogroms against gay people. - Oh my god, yeah.

    俄羅斯有反同性戀條款,在車臣曾經大屠殺過同性戀者。

  • If you could speak to Vladimir Putin right now, what would you say to him?

    如果你現在可以跟普丁來場對談,你會對他說什麼?

  • I would love to sit down and talk to him face-to-face because only face-to-face with people do you get any progress.

    我很願意坐下來並跟他來場面對面的對談,因爲唯有面對面談話才能獲得進步。

  • So the thing I particularly like about what Elton says there is about sitting down with people and talking.

    我特別喜歡 Elton 所說的,關於與人坐下來好好對談這件事。

  • I do think we have repressed a lot, so people have just put it in a box saying,

    我認為我們都壓抑太久了,因此大家都會先入為主覺得:

  • "Oh god I'm not allowed to say whatever it may be …"

    「天啊,我接下來要講的這些都是不能講的事情…」

  • But if you allow people time to say it, and to say words that they might be a bit clumsy about ...

    但如果你給人們時間並說出想講的話,並講他們或許不太擅長的事…

  • It's fine, because you can help people learn.

    這完全沒事,因為你可以幫助別人學習。

  • It's fantastic when I talk to young people who are declaring whatever spectrum of sexuality they are on without thinking about it, I think of my own children.

    當我與沒有特別思考過就發表自己性向的年輕朋友們談話時,真是太棒了,這讓我想到自己的小孩。

  • They don't think about this in the way that those of us born in the 60s and 70s and the influences that we had do.

    他們思考模式並沒有被 60 和 70 年代的我們所影響。

  • So, is this fixable? It's changeable.

    這是可變通的嗎?是的。

  • It really is, and a few simple things can help.

    這真的是,且幾件簡單的事就可以幫忙。

  • If you've never met a gay person, go and talk to one.

    如果你從來沒有認識同性戀男生,去找一位來聊聊天吧!

  • You know what? They're quite nice to talk to.

    你猜怎麼著?他們其實人都很好的。

  • And listen and we use something called reverse mentoring.

    聽聽他們講什麼,我們稱這為「反向教導」。

  • You know, if you're senior, go and find someone that's not like you that is in the organisation and listen.

    如果你是為老年人,在團體裡找一位與你不一樣的人並聽聽他們說什麼。

  • Not for you to tell them, for you to listen to their story and who they are, because it might feel a bit uncomfortable.

    並不是叫你去對他們說教,而是去聽他們的故事並了解他們是誰,因為你或許會感到有點不自在。

  • But trust me, that works brilliantly well and I have seen people completely transformed.

    但相信我,這真的極其有幫助,我看過有人被完完全全地改觀了。

  • Their mind is opened.

    他們敞開了心胸。

  • They realize, "They're just like everyone else."

    他們了解了:「他們其實跟我們一樣。」

  • Being a straight ally, I know that word gets used a lot now, really matters.

    作為一位異性戀的盟友,我知道這個字現在超常被使用了,但你真的也很重要。

  • And say that you are a supporter of the LGBT+ community.

    表明自己是支持 LGBT+ 族群的。

  • Just do it and you know what, people won't think worse for you they will think a lot more of you.

    就這樣做吧,人們不會對你產生負評,反而會對你產生更多想法。

  • Because it's even more powerful if a straight ally talks about being inclusive and being welcoming of all forms of diversity.

    因為異性戀的朋友們談論包容和多元化是更有影響力的。

  • That works really well.

    這真的非常有用。

I guess I was the cookie cutter straight, white, successful male.

我想我曾經是個很典型的成功、白人男性。

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【人權教育】是歧視還是偏見?「恐同症」是什麼? (Why are people homophobic? | What's Behind Prejudice? Episode 2 | BBC Ideas)

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    Seraya 發佈於 2020 年 08 月 24 日
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