Probably people would look at me and think, "Well, I'm probably like them and therefore a little bit homophobic as well."

或許人們看著我會想：「我跟他們很像，所以我應該也有恐同症。」

And then I made the really difficult decision to come out.

因此我在出櫃時做了一番很艱難的決定。

You know, I met a man that I fell in love with when I was nearly 40 and then I realised I was gay.

我在將近 40 歲時才與一位男性墜入愛河，我才領悟到原來我是同性戀。

[Why are people homophobic?]

[為什麼會有恐同症？]

[Richard Beaven is a financial services director and LGBT activist.]

[Richard Beaven 為金融服務總監和 LGBT 活躍者。]

[He believes it's important to understand homophobia, in order to eradicate it.]

[他認為要消除恐同症，了解恐同症是非常重要的。]

Mr. Mawby, do you think homosexuals should be sent to prison?

Mawby 先生，請問你覺得同性戀者該送進大牢嗎？

-Yes. Of course if they are ... -Surrounded by other men or ...

-是，當然要，如果他們… -被其他男人所圍繞或…

Unbelievable.

難以置信。

[Homosexuality was illegal in England and Wales until 1967, but homophobia still remains today.]

[在英國和威爾斯直到 1967 年同性關係才合法，但恐同現象至今都還存在。]

When I think about why people are homophobic, I think about a workshop that I ran in the city a couple of years ago.

每當我思考為什麼人們有恐同症時，我就會想起幾年前我在城裡辦的一場工作坊。

It was really good, apart from this one guy who literally said nothing and he had his arms folded, clearly really uncomfortable about being there.

那是個很棒的經驗，除了一位沈默不語並雙手抱胸的人，很明顯對參與活動感到很不自在。

So I stopped the conversation and I looked at him and I said, "I notice you are not engaging with this."

我暫停了談話、看著他說：「我注意到你沒有在參與這一切。」

"You are not part of the conversation."

「你都不有參與討論。」

And I said, "I suspect there are three things that I find a lot of people struggle to engage in this conversation with, and the first one is gay sex."

然後我接著說：「我想有三件事情讓人們對於參與這樣的話題感到掙扎，第一件事就是同性之間的性行為。」

Lots of straight men find it very, very uncomfortable to think about how men have sex with men.

許多異性戀男性對於想到男性與男性發生性關係感到非常不自在。

But we have to park that.

但我們應該要停止這樣想。

We're not having a conversation around sex, we're having a conversation about inclusivity and making people feel welcome.

我們的討論重點並不在於性關係，而是關於包容以及讓人們感到溫暖。

And then I said, "The second thing I think lots of people like you think is that, you know, that 'all men who are gay fancy all men.'"

我接著說：「第二件事就是，大部分像你這樣的人會認為『同性戀男性喜歡所有男性』。」

And I said, "You're just not my type."

我就說：「你不是我的菜。」

And he started to smile and I said, "But there's the third thing."

他笑了，我又說：「但還有第三件事。」

And I said, "This is often a problem, is that, 'If I engage in this conversation then people might think I'm gay'."

「這也很常是個問題，就是『如果我參與了話題，人們會覺得我是同性戀』。」

[On top of this, Richard believes the HIV crisis still casts a shadow.]

[除此之外，Richard 認為愛滋病危機仍為同性族群的權益蒙上陰影。]

There is now a deadly virus which anyone can catch from sex with an infected person.

現在有一種致命的病毒，任何人都可以因與被感染者發生性關係而被感染。

So protect yourself.

所以保護好自己。

It's safer if you use a condom.

使用保險套會安全許多。

So I think that crisis had a huge impact on or reinforced the fact that gay people are different.

所以我認為這場危機對同性族群造成了重大的影響，或甚至放大了同性族群的不同之處。

And there was a lot of terrible language around "gay people spread diseases," and it was just ghastly at the time.

關於「同性戀者散播病毒」有相當多衍伸的難聽言論，在當時非常可怕。

And I think that's influenced a whole generation in terms of the way they think about homosexuality.

而我認為這影響了整個世代對於同性關係的理解。

-You know, Russia has got anti-gay legislation, Chechnya you find pogroms against gay people. - Oh my god, yeah.

俄羅斯有反同性戀條款，在車臣曾經大屠殺過同性戀者。

If you could speak to Vladimir Putin right now, what would you say to him?

如果你現在可以跟普丁來場對談，你會對他說什麼？

I would love to sit down and talk to him face-to-face because only face-to-face with people do you get any progress.

我很願意坐下來並跟他來場面對面的對談，因爲唯有面對面談話才能獲得進步。

So the thing I particularly like about what Elton says there is about sitting down with people and talking.

我特別喜歡 Elton 所說的，關於與人坐下來好好對談這件事。

I do think we have repressed a lot, so people have just put it in a box saying,

我認為我們都壓抑太久了，因此大家都會先入為主覺得：

"Oh god I'm not allowed to say whatever it may be …"

「天啊，我接下來要講的這些都是不能講的事情…」

But if you allow people time to say it, and to say words that they might be a bit clumsy about ...

但如果你給人們時間並說出想講的話，並講他們或許不太擅長的事…

It's fine, because you can help people learn.

這完全沒事，因為你可以幫助別人學習。

It's fantastic when I talk to young people who are declaring whatever spectrum of sexuality they are on without thinking about it, I think of my own children.

當我與沒有特別思考過就發表自己性向的年輕朋友們談話時，真是太棒了，這讓我想到自己的小孩。

They don't think about this in the way that those of us born in the 60s and 70s and the influences that we had do.

他們思考模式並沒有被 60 和 70 年代的我們所影響。

So, is this fixable? It's changeable.

這是可變通的嗎？是的。

It really is, and a few simple things can help.

這真的是，且幾件簡單的事就可以幫忙。

If you've never met a gay person, go and talk to one.

如果你從來沒有認識同性戀男生，去找一位來聊聊天吧！

You know what? They're quite nice to talk to.

你猜怎麼著？他們其實人都很好的。

And listen and we use something called reverse mentoring.

聽聽他們講什麼，我們稱這為「反向教導」。

You know, if you're senior, go and find someone that's not like you that is in the organisation and listen.

如果你是為老年人，在團體裡找一位與你不一樣的人並聽聽他們說什麼。

Not for you to tell them, for you to listen to their story and who they are, because it might feel a bit uncomfortable.

並不是叫你去對他們說教，而是去聽他們的故事並了解他們是誰，因為你或許會感到有點不自在。

But trust me, that works brilliantly well and I have seen people completely transformed.

但相信我，這真的極其有幫助，我看過有人被完完全全地改觀了。

Their mind is opened.

他們敞開了心胸。

They realize, "They're just like everyone else."

他們了解了：「他們其實跟我們一樣。」

Being a straight ally, I know that word gets used a lot now, really matters.

作為一位異性戀的盟友，我知道這個字現在超常被使用了，但你真的也很重要。

And say that you are a supporter of the LGBT+ community.

表明自己是支持 LGBT+ 族群的。

Just do it and you know what, people won't think worse for you they will think a lot more of you.

就這樣做吧，人們不會對你產生負評，反而會對你產生更多想法。

Because it's even more powerful if a straight ally talks about being inclusive and being welcoming of all forms of diversity.

因為異性戀的朋友們談論包容和多元化是更有影響力的。

That works really well.

這真的非常有用。