English, I'm Catherine.

Rob: And hello, I'm Rob.

Catherine: Now Rob, do you ever buy

things at a charity shop?

Rob: Yes I do. They are a great place to

pick up a bargain and I also donate items

to charity shops too. And a charity shop,

by the way, is a shop where people take

their unwanted items and then the shop

sells them and makes money and the

money goes to charity.

Catherine: Exactly that's good to hear Rob,

because donating – that's giving money or

goods to an organisation – helps charities

raise money. And you might

be interested to know that dressing up in

second-hand clothes is back in fashion –

well sort of - and that's what we're

discussing today – is looking like you're

dressing in charity shop clothes a new

fashion statement?

Rob: It should be interesting but first

Catherine, aren't you going to set me a

question to answer – and not a second-hand

one please!

Catherine: It's a brand new question today

Rob, for you and the listeners at home –

do you know when the first official charity

shop opened its doors in the UK? Was it in…

a) 1928, b) 1948, or c) 1968?

Rob: I'll go for 1948.

Catherine: OK, and we'll find out the

answer later. But now back to our

discussion about charity shops and

fashion. And there's a new look in town,

which some people are calling 'scumbro'.

Scumbro combines the word 'scummy',

which means 'dirty and messy', with the

word 'bro', which is an informal way of

referring to a boy or man.

So scumbro is a fashion for men – but

women can adopt it too.

Rob: It's a bit of an insulting name and

here's the odd thing about this new

fashion style: Being scumbro is about

buying expensive designer brands

that look like they are from a charity shop.

Very odd!

Catherine: Well, it's something Amber Graafland

knows about. She is the Fashion & Beauty

Director for the Daily Mirror newspaper

and she's been telling BBC Radio 4's You

and Yours programme all about it. So,

how did this trend start?

Amber Graafland: Well I think the name

came from a Vanity Fair article, and I think

Justin Bieber, the likes of Jonah Hill to

thank for this look, and Pete Davidson, who's

actually the fiancée of Ariana Grande –

he's definitely one of the founding

fathers of scumbro. And I think, like most

of these trends, they're started by

celebrities and then, I mean look, it's been

picked up by everybody by the sounds of things.

Rob: OK, so the fashion magazine Vanity

Fair invented the name but the trend has

spread because celebrities have been

dressing in this style.

Catherine: Yes and Amber mentioned a

number of celebrities who are the

founding fathers of the trend

– that's a term used to describe people

who start an idea or an organisation.

Rob: Yes, the trend has been picked up –

or copied - by people who you might

describe as fashion victims – people who

have to follow the latest fashion trends.

Catherine: Well Rob, I'm no fashion victim

– but I say, maybe, one day, I might want

to look scumbro – or maybe scumsis! So how

exactly should I dress?

Rob: OK, well let's hear from Amber

Graafland again.

How does she describe the characteristics

of this fashion trend?

Amber Graafland: It's all about wearing

these oversized clothes that are

overpriced and I think it's not just

about looking like you've rummaged in a

teenager's dressing up box. These are

very, very expensive items – you

mentioned the labels Prada, Versace,

Gucci, Supreme – while it's basically

about looking simultaneously like you've

made no effort, but the underlying thing is

you do need to see the effort has gone in there.

Rob: Wow, this fashion trend does involve

a lot of effort! It's not just about looking

messy – like you've rummaged in a

teenager's dressing up box. Rummaging is

when you search for something that's

mixed up with lots of other things.

Catherine: No don't be rummaging! The

trick seems to be to look like you've not

made any effort but at the same time,

you're showing you have made an effort! And

that's the meaning of the word

'simultaneously' – doing one thing

at the same time as another thing.

Rob: And I guess by showing you've made

an effort, you wear designer labels –

showing you've paid lots of money.

Catherine: The issue here is clothes from

charity shops are supposed to be cheap.

Some people even buy these clothes

because it is all they can afford – but the

irony here is some people are choosing to

pay lots and lots of money to look like

they're wearing second-hand clothes

– and the charity shops aren't making any

money from it.

Rob: Well if you're a fashion victim it's

something you have to do.

Catherine: And there's one thing I have to

do now and that's give you the answer to

today's quiz question. So I asked you

earlier when the first official charity shop

opened its doors in the UK?

Rob: And I said 1948.

Catherine: And you are correct this week, Rob.

Well done! The very first shop, run by the

charity Oxfam, opened its doors in Oxford

in 1948, as a direct result of an appeal

launched to help post-war Greece.

Rob: Very interesting. Right, let's remind

ourselves of some of today's vocabulary,

starting with the word 'donating' which

means 'giving goods or money to an

organisation or charity'.

Catherine: Then we mentioned 'founding

fathers' - a term used to describe people

who start an idea or an organisation.

Rob: We also mentioned that Catherine

was no 'fashion victim' – a person who

has to follow the latest fashion trends.

Catherine: 'Rummaging' was a word that

described searching for something that's

mixed up with lots of other things. And

then we had 'simultaneously' which means

'doing one thing at the same time as

doing something else'.

Rob: Well you can simultaneously listen to

this programme and look at our website if

you like. The web address is bbclearningenglish.com.

Catherine: But that's all we have time for

now. Join us again next time. Goodbye.

Rob: Bye!