Name: The civic hacker that became Digital Minister of Taiwan: interview with Audrey Tang
Uploaded: 2020-06-12T09:20:57.000Z
Duration: 6 min 22 s

In cybersecurity, we have white hat hackers, who will get into the vulnerabilities and security flaws of the system, and tell you how to repair it.

在網絡安全方面，我們有白帽黑客，他們會進入系統的漏洞和安全缺陷，並告訴你如何修復。

or there are black hat hackers that use those flaws for personal gain and benefits.

或者有黑帽黑客利用這些缺陷謀取私利和利益。

"We're white hat civic hackers, we're not exploiting those loopholes in democracy for personal gain."

"我們是白帽公民黑客，我們不是利用民主中的那些漏洞謀取私利。"

Rather, we're about building new tools in democracy that can better reflect the collective will and rough consensus of the entire citizenship and entire society.

而是要在民主中建立新的工具，更好地體現全體公民和全社會的集體意志和粗略共識。

At any given time, there are 100 small experiments running all across Taiwan.

在任何時候，全臺灣都有100個小實驗在運行。

Whenever there is a really good idea accepted by society emerging out of a sandbox, we then agree within a year to adopt their idea as our new regulation.

每當有一個非常好的想法被社會接受，從沙盤中冒出來的時候，我們就會在一年內同意採用他們的想法作為我們的新規定。

In all the 12 ministries related to social innovation, each minister has two social innovators who are always under 35 years old that lead the direction for that particular ministry.

在與社會創新有關的所有12個部委中，每個部長都有兩名年齡總是在35歲以下的社會創新者，他們負責上司該部委的工作。

We call them reverse mentors because in a sense, they're mentoring the ministers and educating them, whether their policies are having a positive effect on all of the population.

我們稱他們為逆向導師，因為從某種意義上說，他們是在指導部長們，教育部長們，他們的政策是否對全體民眾產生了積極的影響。

On the other hand, it's in reverse because they were not trained in public policy.

另一方面，因為他們沒有接受過公共政策方面的培訓，所以是反過來的。

"Having a good bi-direction or omni-directional listening experience is really important."

"擁有良好的雙向或全方位的聽覺體驗真的很重要。"

If people want to make sure that all the citizens benefit, rather than just a few people who have a good connection to the ministries.

如果人們想確保所有的公民都能受益，而不僅僅是少數與各部委有良好關係的人。

My first foray into the World Web was actually campaigning for the first presidential election in Taiwan.

我第一次進入世界網絡，其實是為臺灣第一屆總統選舉競選。

That was in 1996. So basically, direct election for the president, and the World Wide Web's mass adoption was in the same year.

那是在1996年。所以基本上，總統的直選，和網際網路的大規模應用是在同一年。

In Taiwan, people who innovate with technology and people who innovate with bureaucracy are the same people.

在臺灣，用科技創新的人和用官僚主義創新的人是同一個人。

That gives a civic spirit so that people feel that we own democracy, because it is relatively new to us, it's only 30 years old.

這就給人一種公民精神，讓人們覺得我們擁有民主，因為民主對我們來說是比較新的，它只有30年的歷史。

I think this drive of inspiration and innovation is what led Taiwan to be one of the most radically transparent, and also the most progressive country in the whole of Asia.

我想，正是這種靈感和創新的動力，讓臺灣成為整個亞洲最徹底的透明，也是最進步的國家之一。

"The government should trust citizens without requiring the citizens to trust back."

"政府應該信任公民，而不要求公民回信"

The other lesson I would like to share in any place in Taiwan, more than 98 percent of our territory, you have 10 megabits per second at 15 Euros, unlimited connections, and if you don't, it's my fault.

另外一個教訓我想跟大家分享，在臺灣任何一個地方，我們98%以上的領土，你有10兆每秒15歐元，無限連接，如果你沒有，那是我的錯。

As through this way, people are getting more included into the democratic process, instead of just forcing people to speak the language of bureaucracy, or maybe traveling to Taipei to deliver a five minute speech in a public hearing.

這樣一來，人們就會更多地融入到民主進程中，而不是僅僅強迫人們說官僚主義的語言，或者可能到臺北在公聽會上發表5分鐘的演講。

Back in 2016, people were talking about the weaponization of social media everywhere around the world, including certain elections in 2016.

早在2016年，人們就在談論世界各地的社交媒體武器化，包括2016年的某些選舉。

People discovered that it is actually possible to use precision targeting and the same technologies that people develop for advertisement purposes, for political campaigning.

人們發現，其實可以把精準定位和人們開發的用於廣告目的的技術，同樣用於政治競選。

Even more worrying, it can spread intentional harmful information to parts of the electorate, so that the citizens who are affected with such disinformation will stop recognizing, other political ideas as valid or even other groups as people.

更令人擔憂的是，它可以向部分選民故意傳播有害信息，使受這種虛假資訊影響的公民不再承認，其他政治思想的有效性，甚至不再承認其他群體是人。

"Disinformation will drive people to be much more polarised and violent towards each other"

"虛假資訊將促使人們更加兩極分化，相互之間更加暴力"

so that it becomes an antisocial media and not a social media.

以至於成為一個反社會媒體，而不是社會媒體。

For the past couple of years, what we've been doing is researching vaccines and inoculations against such a toxic virus of the mind.

在過去的幾年裡，我們一直在做的是研究疫苗和接種，以對抗這樣一種心靈的有毒病毒。

We develop it through humor, through rapid responses, through collaborative journalism and fact-checking and so on.

我們通過幽默、通過快速反應、通過合作新聞和事實調查等方式來發展。

During our past presidential election, we saw that less than 16 minutes after each harmful misinformation was spread, instead of going to censorship or being taken down or encroaching on the media platform,

在我們過去的總統大選中，我們看到每一條有害的錯誤信息傳播後不到16分鐘，而不是去審查或被下架或侵佔媒體平臺。

"Citizens organised themselves to put out clarifications in real time."

"市民自發組織起來，實時發出澄清"。

Attaching it to the public notice, attributing the sources of such interferences.

將其附在公示上，並說明這種干擾的來源。

The ministries in charge rolled out hilarious funny mimetic pictures within an hour for people to get into a more humorous mindset.

各部負責人在一個小時內推出了搞笑的趣味擬態圖片，讓人們進入更幽默的心態。

"A more humorous mindset is a natural inoculation against hate."

"更幽默的心態是對仇恨的天然接種。"

Just recently, early February this year in Taiwan, there is massive speculation on the price of surgical masks.

就在最近，今年2月初在臺灣，手術口罩的價格被大規模炒作。

We're not alone. Everywhere in East Asia from Hong Kong, through Singapore, through Japan,

我們並不孤單。東亞的每一個地方，從香港，到新加坡，到日本。

There is a social norm where people, because they don't want to infect their community, put on surgical masks just on the slightest flu-like symptoms.

有一種社會規範，人們因為不想傳染給自己的群體，只要有一點類似流感的症狀，就會戴上手術口罩。

It's a different social norm compared to European cities, but it is true in Asian society.

與歐洲城市相比，這是一種不同的社會規範，但在亞洲社會卻是如此。

In Taiwan, there's a lot of uncertainty and doubt about the accessibility of the surgical mask.

在臺灣，人們對手術面膜的可及性有很多不確定和疑問。

Within 48 hours, our team of national health insurers designed – and I personally coded – a mask map.

在48小時內，我們的國家健康保險公司團隊設計了--我親自編碼--一張面具地圖。

Everybody can see where the nearby pharmacies are or the stock level is, and refresh every 30 seconds, so that you can go into a pharmacy, present your NHI card, and get a pair of masks immediately.

大家可以看到附近的藥店在哪裡，或者庫存量是多少，每30秒刷新一次，進入藥店，出示NHI卡，馬上就可以拿到一副口罩。

You trust the pharmacists more, because you know that they're tapping into the right shared open data pool.

你更信任藥劑師，因為你知道他們正在利用正確的共享開放數據池。

The pharmacists trust the government more, because they know that the distribution is fair and equal.

藥師更信任政府，因為他們知道分配是公平的、平等的。

The government trusts the citizens more,  because then there is no way to speculate.

政府更信任公民，因為這樣就沒辦法炒股了。

If you know that there is going to be more masks supplied at lower prices as the days goes on.

如果你知道隨著日子的推移，會有更多的面膜以更低的價格供應。

"This is just one example of how social fear can be mitigated through radical transparency and open data."

"這只是一個例子，說明如何通過徹底的透明度和開放數據來減輕社會恐懼。"

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The civic hacker that became Digital Minister of Taiwan: interview with Audrey Tang

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