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  • - Hi everyone.

  • Welcome to the daily homeroom live stream,

  • Sal here from Khan Academy.

  • For those of you all who are new to this,

  • this is a live stream that we've been doing every day

  • since we've had these global school closures.

  • Just as a way to stay connected.

  • Obviously Khan Academy, our whole team,

  • we were trying to pull out resources,

  • starting in early learning with Khan Academy kids

  • all the way through elementary, middle and high school

  • and even early college to keep you learning.

  • But we also want to provide more support.

  • So we've been running paired webinars, teacher webinars,

  • this homeroom live stream, where we're going to have

  • really interesting guests including,

  • today I'm especially excited about.

  • But I do want to give my a standard announcement

  • reminding folks that we are not for profit.

  • We only can exist because of philanthropic donations.

  • We were running at a deficit even before COVID hit.

  • And now with COVID, we're seeing our traffic,

  • three X of what it typically is.

  • We are trying to do more programs

  • and ways to support you.

  • So if you're in a position to do so,

  • please think about donating.

  • I want to give special thanks to several corporations

  • that have stepped up really in record time

  • to support this effort.

  • Bank of America, that first weekend when they saw

  • that we needed, they stepped up to help us out.

  • Google.org, AT&T, Fastly and Novartis, thank all of them.

  • And even with their significant support,

  • we still need more help.

  • So if you represent a corporation, please talk to us.

  • And if you're just an individual donor,

  • that still makes a huge, huge, huge difference,

  • for our ability to serve tens of millions of folks

  • around the world.

  • So with that, I am super excited to introduce our guest,

  • Angela Duckworth.

  • In certain circles, she is a mega star, I would say.

  • I've known Angela, for many years.

  • I think we ran into each other at a conference in Canada.

  • This was like eight, nine, or 10 years ago,

  • eight or nine years ago.

  • But, then I, even then I knew Angela was on onto something

  • and since then I think her notoriety has just exploded

  • because the things she talks about are so relevant

  • to education, I think, especially relevant

  • to the time that we're dealing with right now.

  • So, Angela, thank you for joining us.

  • - Thank you Sal, and I'm going to tell you a secret.

  • You didn't just run into me.

  • I actually flew to Canada because I knew

  • someone had told me that you were going to be

  • and I ran into you but not by accident.

  • So I was stalking you.

  • - We see, this is how the tables have turned

  • because now I kind of stalk you.

  • (laughing)

  • - You just email me.

  • It's a lot easier for you,

  • you didn't have to like fly to Canada.

  • - Exactly. I didn't.

  • So I'm glad that we are mutually stalking each other.

  • And I'm going to start off the conversation,

  • but I do want to encourage everyone who's watching

  • on YouTube and Facebook, put questions in there for Angela,

  • and you're going to learn a lot more about

  • her areas of expertise if you don't already know of them.

  • But I will start, Angela, you're known,

  • you're one of really a handful of, I would say, pioneers

  • or leaders in this field of mindset research.

  • And you're really known for grit.

  • Defining it in more precise terms.

  • So just, you know, explain what mindset research is

  • and your view on it, especially relative to grit.

  • - The term mindset has caught on.

  • I have to think that it's gotta be almost the,

  • maybe the most commonly understood new scientific discovery

  • in psychology and among non psychologists, right?

  • Among parents and kids and educators.

  • So what is mindset?

  • You know, mindsets are beliefs that you have about the world

  • or about human nature that drive so much of your behavior.

  • They may not be beliefs that you think about actively,

  • but they're very powerful.

  • And in particular Carol Dweck at Stanford,

  • our common friend and really my hero,

  • she's worked her whole life on something called

  • growth mindset.

  • Your beliefs about your intelligence.

  • And you can either have a growth mindset,

  • which is you know, the belief that intelligence

  • is malleable, that your abilities can change,

  • or you can have a fixed mindset, which is the belief

  • that they can't change that you know, you are who you are,

  • who you are.

  • You're either a math person or not,

  • you're a natural athlete or not.

  • And in my research on grit,

  • which is passionate and persevering effort

  • towards longterm goals, I find, and I think

  • our early work with Carol, but in subsequent studies also,

  • kids who have a growth mindset about intelligence

  • tend to become grittier.

  • And then those increases in grit tend to lead

  • to increases in growth mindset.

  • So there's a kind of virtuous cycle,

  • when a kid really believes that their abilities can change,

  • they're more likely to persevere, to try hard at things,

  • which then reinforces that belief.

  • - And just to make sure I understand these,

  • because I often say these in the same sentence

  • and they are very closely related to growth mindset is,

  • I believe that I can do more, I just have to

  • step out of my comfort zone and apply myself.

  • And if I fail at something, it's not a judgment

  • on some type of innate ability.

  • It's if it's a moment to learn from.

  • While grit is that ability to stick to it.

  • - Yeah, I would say grit, I mean grit is a behavior,

  • grit is like doing it right?

  • And mindset might be why you're doing it, right?

  • So mindset is like the underlying belief

  • that would motivate a certain pattern of behavior

  • that I would describe as grit.

  • And let me just say, because you know,

  • my kids are still teenagers and you know,

  • I'm sure a lot of people have kids who are

  • even younger than, than ours.

  • I think that it's not just, when I think of grit,

  • I don't think just of like working hard.

  • It's also loving what you do.

  • It's also being intrinsically motivated

  • over long periods of time.

  • So, that's just a part of grit that I hope, you know,

  • we can talk about in this conversation

  • because I don't want parents to get the message that like

  • the only thing kids need to do is develop a work ethic.

  • They also have developed interests, loves, passions.

  • - [Sal] Yeah, and that's, I think, a good segue.

  • I mean, you know, you're a professor of psychology

  • at University of Pennsylvania.

  • You've been doing research for a while.

  • You have a bestselling book named, not a surprise, Grit.

  • (laughing)

  • - Yeah. No imagination there in the title.

  • - No, it's the power of passion and perseverance.

  • I think, you know, a question that

  • a lot of parents are asking.

  • My wife asked me to ask you this when she saw that

  • I was walking into the walk-in closet

  • to interview you right now.

  • And it's a question that has been coming up

  • throughout the school closures,

  • is that there's a lot of resources out there.

  • There's Khan Academy, we've put out daily schedules.

  • But what is tangible advice for parents,

  • teachers, or students for themselves to have that grit?

  • To be able to act on that growth mindset, so to speak?

  • - So I think that, not only for grit but for

  • lots of other things that we would love our kids to develop

  • as they grow older, the combination of

  • challenge and support is magical.

  • And, if you ask the question like,

  • what are good parents, right?

  • Like what does the science of parenting say?

  • There's now decades of research on parenting styles

  • and the style of parenting that is the best, really.

  • I mean, I can just say that flat out like it's the best.

  • Your kids will be happier,

  • they'll be more socially adjusted,

  • but they'll also be more accomplished.

  • Like it's this combination of being very supportive

  • but also being demanding.

  • So you could say it's tough love.

  • Now why do I bring that up now

  • in the middle of the COVID crisis?

  • Because kids are being challenged.

  • So their challenges have been, I think in all cases

  • and in many different ways raised, right?

  • Now the question is like, how as parents can you meet that

  • with increased support?

  • Not trivial because we're under our own stress, et cetera.

  • But if you ask the question to me,

  • like where does psychological growth come from?

  • It comes from this combination of like,

  • I'm being asked to do something I can't yet do,

  • but there's a floor beneath me, there's a foundation,

  • there's unconditional support, there is Khan Academy there,

  • you know, there are people who will help me, you know,

  • like make a schedule so I can go on Khan Academy.

  • So I think parents can respond to this crisis

  • by in some ways, thinking of it as an opportunity

  • for their kids to develop these qualities.

  • I call them character strengths,

  • but you can call them SEL skills,

  • you can call them anything you want.

  • And I really do think it's not too Pollyanna

  • to say that it is an opportunity to do all those things.

  • - And what would you, I mean, one,

  • it's impressive that there is, I mean,

  • people have done the research and they've been able

  • to categorize different styles and this,

  • what you're describing seems to be the winning style on,

  • and I'm personally insecure to see how well I'm,

  • I don't know what audits--

  • - Give you a quiz.

  • - Give me a quiz or watch our family.

  • But what either from your or just as a parent

  • that you see good practice, I know y'all have done

  • a lot of research on interventions

  • that can help change people's mindsets.

  • So I mean, one, I'd love to hear about that research

  • and then are there things, let's say hypothetically

  • you were to have a five and a half year old at home

  • or an eight year old.

  • - For example.

  • - For example, I don't know.

  • Some people I know.

  • And you know, they sometimes do their work

  • but they're maybe just doing the minimum

  • or sometimes they don't even want to do that

  • because they feel like there's a little

  • less accountability now.

  • What does the research tell us and what advice

  • would you have for this hypothetical person that I know?

  • - Yeah. Well you know, I have a non hypothetical

  • 17 and non hypothetical 18 year old,

  • but you know, long hypothetical five and a half year old

  • it sounds like on your end.

  • So I think one of the challenges of parenting

  • is to always be titrating to where your kids are.

  • Because when I said that you need to be,

  • and I do believe this, like you need to be

  • a demanding parent.

  • I don't think kids, I mean, kids need parents,

  • like they need us to ask them to do things

  • that they can't yet or wouldn't on their own do.

  • But the titration part is, you know, how much is a stretch

  • for your kid at this particular moment in time

  • and also at this stage in their development?

  • It may not be the same as it is

  • even for another kid in the same family.

  • So the titration is how to have your kids,

  • you know, be challenged but not too much.

  • And so for example, you know, when parents have

  • a idealistic goal of like their kids waking up,

  • making a schedule for the day, sticking to the schedule,

  • you know, if you start with a really unrealistic goal,

  • and you ask your kid to get there, you know,