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  • [APPLAUSE]

  • BRIAN THOMAS: Really grateful for Debbie for offering us

  • this platform in some ways, but also just to have the

  • opportunity for kids to talk about themselves and about

  • what we do.

  • Just a little background--

  • in 2006, 2007, we started as a group.

  • And we were launched in someone's house, one of our

  • board member's house on Clipper

  • Street in San Francisco.

  • And it was basically in her kitchen and living room for a

  • number of years.

  • And we've now moved to the San Francisco Friends School.

  • But it starts usually at the beginning of the school year.

  • And it's once a month.

  • And these kids have-- many of them have been coming over and

  • over and over again during that time.

  • And just a little bit of a background from there, that

  • very first meeting, there were maybe about 15 kids in a room.

  • And Jonathan Mooney, who is a LD advocate extraordinaire,

  • went to Brown, has an incredible story of not just

  • overcoming, but using his strengths, and as someone who

  • probably reads at a third or fourth grade level right now.

  • So he talks a lot about that.

  • But he turned to the kids, and said so what

  • do you want to do?

  • And there was a little bit of a hubbub in the room.

  • And they said we want to speak on panels.

  • We want to make a film.

  • And we want to write a book.

  • And at the end, he turned to the woman whose house it was,

  • Julie Tran, and myself, and said mm, I don't think that's

  • going to happen.

  • Not that he was doubtful, but it was a lot to bite off.

  • And these kids have over time and time again shown great

  • resilience, great fortitude, and

  • they're very, very ambitious.

  • So I'm going to turn it over to-- we're going to start all

  • the way down at the end.

  • I want you to introduce yourselves.

  • Tell us what grade you are in, what school you go to.

  • Tell us a little bit about when you were first diagnosed

  • with your LD.

  • TAMARA: Hi, I'm Tamara.

  • And I'm a senior at the Bay School,

  • which is in San Francisco.

  • I was first diagnosed in seventh grade.

  • And it actually wasn't really that revolutionary, I guess,

  • when I was diagnosed, because I didn't really understand

  • what learning differences were at the time.

  • And I didn't really understand until around ninth grade.

  • So maybe I'll talk about that later.

  • Yeah, thank you.

  • FRANKIE: Hi, I'm Frankie.

  • I am a junior at Gateway High School in San Francisco.

  • I was diagnosed in first grade.

  • That was a long time ago.

  • I don't really remember.

  • But what my mom has told me is that when I was first

  • diagnosed, I went around walking down the street

  • telling everyone I was dyslexic.

  • And I didn't know what that meant.

  • I just thought was a good thing.

  • But other than that, I don't really remember.

  • SEAN: I'm Sean.

  • I go to Riordan High School in the city.

  • I was diagnosed in third grade, but it wasn't really

  • that big a deal because learning disabilities were

  • like diseases so, yeah.

  • ANNIE: I'm Annie.

  • I go to school in Marin County.

  • I technically go to three schools right now.

  • I have four independent study classes, a class at Redwood

  • High School, and a class at College of Marin.

  • I have dyslexia and something called Scotopic Sensitivity

  • Syndrome, which is kind of a reading disability.

  • It's basically like-- you know the salt and pepper on a TV

  • when the cable box is unplugged.

  • It's kind of like that, only everywhere.

  • And so on pages, it makes it a little hard to read.

  • I was identified in the end of sixth grade.

  • And prior to that, I really thought I was stupid, thought

  • I was going nowhere.

  • I was failing classes.

  • I could not read.

  • I didn't know my math facts, couldn't spell.

  • And school was my least favorite thing in the world.

  • And so when I was identified, it was definitely a relief to

  • know the cause to all of my school struggles.

  • But it was also a little bit scary because I thought

  • dyslexia just meant oh, you're kind of not as good as

  • everyone else.

  • But it turns out that wasn't right.

  • MIA: Hi, I'm Mia.

  • I'm a freshman year at Redwood High School, and I have ADHD

  • and dyslexia.

  • And when I was first diagnosed in the end of fourth grade,

  • beginning of fifth grade, it was kind of a relief because I

  • always had a lot of trouble with spelling and math facts.

  • And I could not memorize anything.

  • But I also thought it was kind of this really cool special

  • club, because like my sister Annie, she had gotten

  • diagnosed, and I figured anything that Annie had, that

  • was awesome, so--

  • dyslexia, oh my gosh, that's so cool.

  • FIONA: Hi, I'm Fiona.

  • I have quite a few learning disabilities, ADHD, dysgraphia

  • probably, and sensory integration disorder and some

  • processing disorders with my memory and stuff.

  • Oh, and I'm a senior at the Bay School with Tamara.

  • Hi, Tamara.

  • TAMARA: Hi, Fiona.

  • FIONA: And I was diagnosed, I think, when I

  • was in fourth grade?

  • Is that right, mom?

  • She nodded.

  • So that means that I'm good.

  • I mean, I was in fourth grade at the time, so I don't really

  • remember it.

  • But I do remember it really kind of changing when I went

  • to sixth grade, and then I started taking ADHD

  • medication, and that really helped.

  • But I've really gotten improved with my learning in

  • terms of my learning disability by going to SAFE.

  • BRIAN THOMAS: I want everybody to answer this one as well.

  • Talk a little bit about school challenges, sort of when you

  • first noticed--

  • if you did, because maybe some of you have not-- but when you

  • first noticed through your learning difference, learning

  • disability, how school was challenged for you.

  • TAMARA: So I think for me the main thing is just taking a

  • lot longer to do work than other people.

  • And I notice that already in--

  • I guess when I was in middle school, because we always had

  • classwork to do.

  • And I always had to finish during lunch or

  • finish after school.

  • So that was kind of frustrating.

  • Another thing is that I have a hard time

  • memorizing math formulas.

  • So even though I would say it to myself again and again or

  • write it out again and again, it just wouldn't stick.

  • I think those are the two main things.

  • FRANKIE: Well, I was first diagnosed in first grade, so I

  • don't really remember, but what I do remember from that

  • time it is I remember I couldn't really

  • read in first grade.

  • So people, even my parents, and I think even my nanny,

  • came to school to help me read, because

  • I couldn't do it.

  • So someone had to sit next to me and help me read.

  • Also, people would take me out of class and do these certain

  • exercises, things like that.

  • And I didn't really know why.

  • I just thought--

  • I was like oh, time out of class.

  • That's OK with me.

  • Anything to get out of class.

  • And then I started taking ADHD medication when I was in maybe

  • second grade, maybe first.

  • And I've been taking it ever since then.

  • So I do definitely notice when I haven't taken my medication

  • and when I have taken it, because I just--

  • I'm a lot more--

  • when I do take my medication, I'm a lot calmer, and I can

  • concentrate.

  • But if I don't, I'm off the walls.

  • And I don't even usually recognize myself, because I'm

  • just so used to myself on this medication.

  • And then also I start to notice when I started to get

  • into higher and higher levels of math, I started having more

  • and more problems.

  • Math is probably my worst subject.

  • I get OK grades, but I have test anxiety,

  • especially in math.

  • So when I'm at a test, and I look at the test, I forget

  • everything.

  • Or that's not always usually the case, but sometimes, I

  • will forget everything and will completely fail a test.

  • SEAN: My learning disability is where the most trouble

  • would come for me was basically in grammar school.

  • I have a hard time remembering.

  • And the difference for me is that I didn't really get any

  • help from teachers.

  • The playing field wasn't leveled.

  • So I had to basically do the subjects like everyone else

  • had to, but they were like at a different level, so it was

  • difficult for me.

  • ANNIE: Let's see.

  • Well, I first remember struggling in first grade,

  • where I would just sit in the corner with a book, looking at

  • the pictures, scared, on the verge of crying, because I

  • just couldn't understand the words.

  • I used to pretend I was sick to the point where my mom took

  • me to get blood tests because she thought something was

  • medically seriously wrong with me.

  • And school was just--

  • it was horrible.

  • It was probably one of the worst experiences I've had was

  • having to go to school without knowing that I was dyslexic

  • and without knowing that there were strategies

  • to help with it.

  • MIA: My main struggles have definitely been through

  • spelling and math.

  • I remember in second grade, Antarctica was

  • the bane of my existence.

  • I remember in first grade, we had this game where everybody

  • would start on the line at the edge of the classroom, and

  • then they would ask you an addition fact.

  • And you would hop forward if you got it right.

  • And I just remember being stuck back at

  • the starting line.

  • And it was just horrible.

  • I did not understand what was going on.

  • And it was the same thing when we started multiplication in

  • third grade.

  • I wasn't able to figure out multiplication until around

  • fifth or sixth grade.

  • And I'm still not good at it at all.

  • And I still can't spell at all, although with spell

  • check, it's helped out.

  • But I remember, in sixth grade, we had a lot of

  • spelling tests.

  • And our teacher would go around and you would get-- she

  • would draw you a special picture if you got 100%.

  • And I remember being the only person in the class who had

  • never gotten that.

  • And she thought it was funny.

  • She'd be like oh, you're so bad at spelling.

  • I'll have to throw you out the window.

  • But that was not very funny from my perspective.

  • FIONA: Well, I kind of had a similar experience.

  • Spelling is basically a lost cause with me.

  • And math facts are just-- no, don't even try.

  • But I really didn't--

  • I don't remember really hating school that much when I was

  • younger or even when I--

  • I mean, I just really didn't like the people at my school.

  • Because I was really weird.

  • I mean, we kind of already knew that there was something

  • not quite right.

  • I couldn't not hit people and stuff.

  • So there was something wrong, but we didn't know exactly

  • what it was.

  • But I don't know why, it just didn't--

  • I mean, I just was happy.

  • I didn't feel like I had a terribly negative experience.

  • But yes.

  • Done.

  • BRIAN THOMAS: I want to stay on the social-emotional thing,

  • because a lot of kids will say that if you're not feeling all

  • that safe socially, emotionally, in school, that

  • it's really hard to learn.

  • And your friends and the social group around will give

  • you that confidence of being able to work through some of

  • the challenges in the school.

  • But tell us a little bit about how your friends perceived

  • that, especially if they weren't as accepting or didn't

  • quite understand what you were going through.

  • Could you tell us just maybe some time in your educational

  • life maybe, in the classroom or right out of the classroom,

  • where kids maybe were less than kind and what

  • did that look like?

  • TAMARA: Well, I don't really have a specific

  • anecdote about a friend.

  • But I do really know that the social circle and how they

  • perceive you as someone with a learning difference is really

  • important, because in middle school, it was kind of like if

  • you didn't finish everything kind of right on the dot, that

  • you were not as good.

  • And so I have that kind of thing going on with me.

  • But then when I was in high school, my first year, things

  • started to change a little bit, because people at my

  • school were really accepting of learning differences.

  • Actually, a third of them have learning differences.

  • And they all would just say it.

  • It wasn't a big deal.

  • No one stared at you.

  • In fact, in my first year at my high school, I was working

  • with two friends on math.

  • And they were saying that they were dyslexic.

  • And I was kind of surprised that they would just say that

  • right away, because I didn't even know them that well.

  • And I wanted to say it too, but I kind of still have this

  • thing about--

  • oh, maybe I shouldn't reveal it because it shows something

  • that's not so great.

  • But I realized that over time, just saying it is really

  • empowering, just like--

  • if I want to say that I have a learning difference to

  • someone, then I want to say it.

  • And it feels great.

  • I know that other people will feel more comfortable when

  • they hear someone else say it.

  • So it just kind of builds this community of people that

  • really are accepting, that they're proud of it, and it's

  • really contagious.

  • FRANKIE: So I remember probably the time I was

  • probably the most criticized for my learning disabilities

  • was probably in first grade.

  • Although I don't really remember, I was probably most

  • definitely really thought as just the really weird kid,

  • because in first grade, my teacher didn't know how to

  • teach me at all.

  • Her solution for not having to worry about me was putting me

  • in the back of the room with a box of LEGOs.

  • And everyone else would be doing a class activity.

  • And I couldn't do that.

  • So she thought OK, I'm just going to put Frankie in the

  • back of the room.

  • And I'd be by myself in my own world.

  • And I thought it was great, because I was

  • playing with LEGOs.

  • What kid wouldn't want to play with LEGOs in school?

  • And then in second grade, I went to a school called

  • Charles Armstrong.

  • And that's a school for kids with learning disabilities in

  • Belmont, just north of here.

  • And so every kid was dyslexic.

  • So every kid, almost everything kid, was the same.

  • So during that time, I wasn't really--

  • everything about dyslexia was normal.

  • So there wasn't really anything about

  • that that was weird.

  • Then I got into high school.

  • And that was the first time I actually went back into the

  • public school system.

  • So I was very nervous about that.

  • And after I joined SAFE, I started realizing that

  • advocating for myself and being open is very important.

  • So I'm very open about my learning disabilities when it

  • comes to school.

  • And I'll tell that person OK, I have this learning

  • difference.

  • It's going to take me longer in order to do this.

  • So you may need to help me, and you may need to be

  • patient, because I'm not going to do it as fast as you.

  • And I'll tell that person that.

  • And a lot of my friends are very helpful.

  • They'll help me.

  • They'll sit down with me.

  • They'll be patient.

  • And 30% of my high school has a learning difference.

  • So the people at my school are very supportive.

  • SEAN: So I talked about my grammar school being like--

  • they didn't really--

  • no one really knew anything about learning disabilities.

  • So that kind of hurt me in a way, because I really know of

  • anyone that had learning disabilities.

  • I thought it was just me.

  • So I would kind of use-- honestly, I would use that as

  • an excuse for not being able to do my work or I would say I

  • can't succeed.

  • I'm just going to blame it on learning disabilities.

  • So it was basically not until high school when I realized

  • that when I was put in a group-- it's called the

  • Resource Specialist Program.

  • There are like 100 people in that group.

  • So it made me realize that I'm not only one that has these

  • difficulties.

  • Some people have a lot harder difficulties, and they're

  • still getting through it, so I can, too.

  • And then with the SAFE, it really taught me how to be an

  • independent, not really be scared that I do have learning

  • disabilities, being about to talk about them with people.

  • ANNIE: Let's see.

  • Well, I was lucky enough when I was diagnosed that one of my

  • close friends at the time was also dyslexic.

  • And so her and I and a few other girls in the class would

  • just bring computers everywhere, and have really

  • obvious accommodations, and it wasn't really an issue.

  • But that was at a very small private school.

  • And then I went to a 1,600-kid public school for high school.

  • And I just remember my first day of English class.

  • I was sitting there and the teacher wants

  • us to write a paragraph.

  • So I whip out my computer.

  • I'd been doing that for like three years or so.

  • And a girl-- she's like wait, what are you doing?

  • Why do you have a computer?

  • That doesn't make any sense.

  • And I told her I was dyslexic.

  • And in the middle of class, she stands up, going to the

  • front of the room, and writes--

  • I forget what the word is-- but writes something

  • backwards, and asks me to read it.

  • And I was a little taken by surprise, and told her that no

  • one with dyslexia reads backwards, and

  • that that was a myth.

  • And she just kind of shrugged, and she's like oh, well,

  • that's really weird.

  • Like what the eff.

  • It was a little uncomfortable.

  • MIA: When I was diagnosed, I didn't really have much of a

  • problem with it at first, because my sister had it and

  • everything.

  • But I feel like nobody came up to me and said things like oh,

  • so you read backwards, and oh, you're stupid

  • because you have an LD.

  • It was just kind of a little bit like the little side

  • glance you get, like in math, when you go up to the board,

  • and you do the problem wrong, because you say 2 plus 3 is 6

  • or something, that kind of mistake, just kind of look at

  • you like, what are you doing?

  • And so they don't exactly say it out loud, just like the

  • little sideways glances occasionally.

  • That can be a little bit stressful.

  • FIONA: It's cruel.

  • MIA: Well, over time, I got really comfortable with it.

  • And I would tell anybody who listened, oh, I have dyslexia.

  • Do you want to know what it is?

  • I go to this thing called SAFE.

  • It's so awesome.

  • You should check it out.

  • And then since that's a small 45-kid class school, and now I

  • go to a giant public school with almost

  • 500 kids in my grade.

  • And I remember, it was Friday, I think.

  • My friend comes up to me.

  • What are you doing over the weekend?

  • I'm like oh, well, I'm going to the CHADD conference.

  • And she's like what's that?

  • It's this ADD conference.

  • She's like what's ADD?

  • I'm like it's for kids with LDs.

  • She's like what's an LD?

  • And I try to explain it, and she just kind of looks at me

  • like oh, I love mentally disabled people.

  • Like she literally says that to me.

  • And I just kind of look at her, and she looks back at me

  • like what are you talking about?

  • FIONA: Well, so I never really got made fun of specifically

  • because of my learning disabilities.

  • I just got made fun of because I was weird and--

  • yeah.

  • But I mean, I kind of feel like it's not really about

  • other people being mean to you.

  • It's more about kind of you being

  • mean to yourself sometimes.

  • You think, like, oh, well, I mean, it doesn't really make

  • any sense if you can't--

  • I mean, I can't do this thing and blah, blah, blah.

  • I mean, I'm never going to get fixed.

  • I feel like I didn't have that as much as a lot of people,

  • but I do feel like it's a problem for pretty much

  • anybody who has an LD, because the way that the world is

  • structured is you just still have to like work to fit in

  • and to have the system work for you.

  • And that's hard.

  • BRIAN THOMAS: And this is really pretty

  • challenging, huh?

  • Just to have to go through what kids go through just on a

  • daily basis, but also to have the extra stress sometimes of

  • knowing that you learn differently than at least 60%

  • of the kids in the room, if statistics hold true.

  • It may be even more.

  • You are all playing with stuff, I see.

  • People notice that.

  • You all have little gadgets in your hand or little things in

  • your hand, many of you.

  • Tell me a little bit more about things that help you.

  • Tell me a little bit about your accommodations and any

  • sort of assisted technologies that you use.

  • TAMARA: OK, so I mainly use audiobooks to read.

  • I think I'm pretty much like the audiobook queen at my

  • school, because every time I have a new novel, I always

  • order the audiobook or get it from the library.

  • And I started doing that only last year, and I don't really

  • know why I didn't do that before, because it's honestly

  • the best thing.

  • You can hear other people.

  • It's almost like watching a movie without the picture, so

  • it's really cool.

  • It helps me.

  • Because I have a visual and auditory processing learning

  • difference, so if I can read something and hear it at the

  • same time, that helps me a lot.

  • The other thing is that I use my computer a lot of the time.

  • I do like paper and pencil.

  • I guess I'm kind of old fashioned, but I usually use

  • the computer most of the time, unless it's just kind of a

  • free write, because it helps me work a lot faster.

  • And it just makes writing more enjoyable.

  • FRANKIE: So I just want to say that I love accommodations,

  • greatest thing in the world.

  • My accommodation's mostly for school, like math.

  • In my math class, there's a person called a learning

  • specialist in my classroom.

  • Really cool guy, and what he does is he sits in the back of

  • the room, and while the class is taking notes, he'll take

  • the notes as well.

  • And then he'll take them, copy them, and he'll give them to

  • people who need it.

  • And I'm one of those people get those notes.

  • So that really helps me, because sometimes I can't read

  • my own handwriting.

  • And I also have a auditory processing disability, and my

  • auditory memory is in the second percentile.

  • So I only take in 2% of what I hear, let's say, in a lecture.

  • So that's barely anything.

  • So what I have to do is I have to look back on the notes in

  • order to understand what I'm doing for homework.

  • Because I can't process it just from a lecture.

  • I'm allowed to use a computer when I'm doing like a timed

  • essay, although I'm not a very good typer.

  • I have time and a half, so let's say I have an

  • hour to do a test.

  • But then I'll have an extra 30 minutes, because I need that

  • extra time, because I work a lot slower

  • than an average student.

  • I do use audiobooks.

  • I actually just started this year as well.

  • And it really helps.

  • It's a lot better than myself just reading to me.

  • Because if someone is reading it, like, let's say, in an

  • audiobook like an actor's reading it, I get the picture

  • so much better.

  • And I enjoy the book so much more.

  • Also, at home, I use a program called

  • Dragon's Naturally Speaking.

  • And that is a--

  • you have a headphone.

  • You have a computer.

  • And you talk into the headphone and it

  • types out for you.

  • I can do that whole entire essay just like that, And I

  • can pace back and forth.

  • And it's not very accurate, so it's not the best at accuracy,

  • but so I can go back and fix it.

  • But that definitely helps when I'm doing an essay at home.

  • SEAN: My main accommodation is I get 100% extended timing.

  • I have processing issues, so let's say the class gets 30

  • minutes, I'll get almost an hour, so that really helps

  • because it kind of is a little bit of a problem, because like

  • you're just kind of in there taking a test with no one else

  • in there, even though it's kind of cool, it just takes a

  • lot of brain power to be able to focus that long.

  • Another thing that I get is I get to type everything.

  • I'm not really sure how it goes with my learning

  • disability.

  • I think that's just because of my handwriting.

  • And then the last accommodation that I get is I

  • have teachers--

  • I have one-on-one testing which is where when I'm taking

  • a test, a teacher will read the questions for me, because

  • a lot of times when I read the question, I'll have to read it

  • like 10 times before I even get the gist of what the

  • question's asking.

  • So, yeah, having a teacher--

  • hearing it out, loud helps me.

  • ANNIE: Well, I think the number one accommodation you

  • can have is self-advocacy.

  • And that's a giant topic that we stress at SAFE, basically

  • just being able to understand your disability and tell your

  • teachers about it and know what you need and be able to

  • express that.

  • I know for me, every year I send an email to my teacher.

  • Or first I go to my teacher, and I talk to them.

  • And I introduce myself and let them know about my dyslexia

  • and how it affects me and the accommodations I have.

  • And then I'll follow up with that and sending an email,

  • just so they know to kind of reinforce it, a little

  • friendly reminder.

  • And then as far as assistive technology goes, I use a

  • computer program called Inspiration.

  • And it's a way of creating an outline, but it's very visual.

  • Instead of Roman numerals and numbers, it's little bubbles

  • and pictures.

  • And you make little webs, and like I said, you can put

  • pictures or different text boxes and titles and colors.

  • And then if you need to turn in the outline, it actually

  • turns it into a formal outline for you, if you

  • just click a button.

  • I cannot write essays without it.

  • And then in my legal accommodations list, I have

  • gum and the use of a fidget toy.

  • Because I don't actually have ADD, but I really do need to

  • be doing something to focus, something little like moving

  • my hand or playing with a pen.

  • And then as far as audiobooks goes, there's a organization

  • called RFB&D, which is Reading for the Blind and Dyslexic.

  • And if you have a formal diagnosed disability, they

  • will provide you with free audiobooks

  • for almost any book.

  • MIA: I, like Annie, have a legal documentation of using

  • gum and fidget toys.

  • I actually just have buckets and buckets

  • of them in my room.

  • I go to the dollar store and buy out everything they have,

  • like these and Silly Putty.

  • And I'll buy my gum in bulk at Costco so I always have it.

  • I also have time and a half, because although a lot of the

  • times, I can finish tests faster than the majority of my

  • classmates because my mind moves so fast.

  • But also because it moves so fast, I skip things.

  • I leave out lots of different symbols.

  • So I need the extra time to just go over my work, so I can

  • check over my test, especially with math.

  • I have to go over it and check every problem, redo it about

  • three times and use my little checkmark system on there.

  • I also, just like Annie said, I advocate a lot.

  • I have to go talk to my teachers very frequently.

  • I use my computer sometimes.

  • I also use Inspiration and things like that.

  • And I also have preferential seating, which means I can

  • talk to my teacher and say, hey, yeah, you assigned me to

  • a seat in the back corner, but I can't see the board.

  • So I will get moved up to the front, so that can pay

  • attention and so that I can listen and learn.

  • FIONA: I've no--

  • I should've thought this through.

  • Well, I get time and a half, like pretty

  • much everybody else.

  • And I get a laptop accommodation, which is really

  • not unusual for my school because

  • they give us computers.

  • So almost 100% of everything is done on the computer unless

  • your teacher's really weird and makes you write out

  • essays, in which case, you're like I have an accommodation.

  • Yes!

  • So that's nice once in awhile.

  • But what I think really helps me most is visual stuff.

  • So that includes like when we watch movies, I don't have an

  • accommodation for this, so I'll just ask out of

  • curiosity, and I'll ask can we have the captions on?

  • Because that's one reason why I love watching foreign movies

  • in class is because they always have the captions on.

  • And I love captions so much, you guys.

  • Oh my god.

  • Oh by the way, Google, you really need to improve your

  • caption thingies.

  • They're just--

  • [SCOFFS].

  • But anyway, I mean, because that just really helps me

  • absorb what it is they're talking about, because

  • otherwise, like you've got everybody here.

  • And I've already forgotten what--

  • I wanted to reply to something that Sean said, but I've

  • totally forgot what he said.

  • And maybe if I'd had captions, I would remember.

  • But, no, sadly.

  • BRIAN THOMAS: Real time.

  • Thank you.

  • A couple of points of clarification.

  • RFB&D, which is Recording for the Blind and Dyslexic, is now

  • called Learning Ally.

  • And it's been around for a long time, reporting

  • recordings for the blind.

  • And their whole business plan is they're just all of these

  • volunteers, and they're recording just about every

  • book that's imaginable.

  • And if it's not out there like a textbook or even a novel,

  • they'll put it on for you, which has been great.

  • And they've been a really great friend of PEN, the

  • Parent Education Network.

  • And I wanted to go back to something that you guys talked

  • about which was the whole idea of self-advocacy, because this

  • panel is a form of self-advocacy, right?

  • They influence teachers.

  • Sometimes they will influence even their peers.

  • And now being here at Google in front of this group of

  • maybe a mixed audience, maybe some parents who are

  • interested, or maybe you have a child who's dyslexic or

  • ADD/ADHD, perhaps you're thinking about

  • policy in the future.

  • I want to know when you have advocated,

  • and it's not worked.

  • You've gone up, and perhaps it was a little bit earlier in

  • your own sort of self-conception as being

  • someone with a learning disability.

  • And a lot of you talked about--

  • Mia and Annie talked about legal accommodation.

  • So if there is an evaluation, psycho-ed evaluation, or

  • sometimes even input from a medical doctor, this is the

  • law of the land with ADA, the Americans with

  • Disabilities Act.

  • But tell me about a time when you have advocated for

  • yourself, and it hasn't worked.

  • What did you do next?

  • TAMARA: Well, I don't really have a situation where it

  • didn't work.

  • But I do have a situation where it was a little bit

  • tricky, at least in the beginning.

  • Because I had this teacher, a new teacher, and when we were

  • doing a timed essay in class, she said that I and this other

  • student who has a learning difference-- that she said we

  • didn't need the extended time and that we would finish.

  • And so I guess me and the other student immediately

  • leaped up from our chairs and told her that we need our

  • extended time.

  • And I mean, to put it bluntly, it's not really

  • the teacher's opinion.

  • Because it says in our learning plan

  • that we need this.

  • And then she let us have it.

  • So I was happy.

  • FRANKIE: I haven't, again, had a time when it

  • hasn't really worked.

  • But I do have a 504, which is basically an IEP, in that

  • sense, for Individualized Education Plan, I believe.

  • So it's a legal document.

  • I have a legal document saying that I need these

  • accommodations.

  • So there has been times when I have walked up to teachers

  • like my Spanish teacher, and I've told her I need this.

  • And she says why?

  • And I said I have this learning disability--

  • a learning difference, and I need this accommodation in

  • order to succeed.

  • And she'll be like, it's fine.

  • You'll do fine.

  • It's like, well, I have a 504 saying I need this.

  • And she said, it's fine, Frankie,

  • you're going to do fine.

  • There has been times when I'm just like screw it.

  • I'm just going to stay in the classroom.

  • And I've done fine.

  • So sometimes, I don't even bother going to

  • her and asking her.

  • I have had problems with my science teacher in freshman

  • and this year about accommodations,

  • because he's just--

  • yeah, he's just not the very nice guy.

  • He's not the best guy.

  • He's very intimidating to go up to and saying I need this.

  • So but other than that, nothing really bad about for

  • my accommodations.

  • SEAN: So the only time that accommodations hasn't worked

  • for me was when--

  • we have an RSP room, which is where all the learning

  • disability kids can go to take tests, do homework, study, to

  • kind of get away from--

  • like if they need accommodations done.

  • And the only time that that hasn't worked was when a

  • teacher thought that I didn't really need to go, because the

  • test was only like a-- it was a really short test.

  • But still, I would have liked to have the one-on-one

  • testing, because that would really help.

  • But so what ended up happening was I took the test in the

  • classroom, but then I've learned that teachers are a

  • lot more accommodating when you go to them after school.

  • So I let them know that this is what I need

  • to be able to succeed.

  • And they ended up being fine with that.

  • ANNIE: Uh, let's see, the first time I self-advocated

  • was in the end of sixth grade.

  • And I had never talked to teachers in my life.

  • And I thought it was the scariest thing in the world.

  • And I went up to my science teacher.

  • And we had a poster assignment where we had to draw pictures

  • and handwrite things.

  • My topic was a jellyfish.

  • And one of my main accommodations is the use of

  • the computer, because my handwriting is just horrible.

  • And I can't spell to save my life.

  • And I mean, it doesn't matter.

  • That doesn't show how smart I am.

  • So I explained to my teacher that I had just been

  • diagnosed, like two weeks ago, and that those were my

  • accommodations.

  • And she was almost acting like I was trying to get out of the

  • assignment or make it easier or try to cheat.

  • And she didn't give me the accommodations.

  • I got a D on my assignment, and I just cried for days.

  • It was horrible.

  • And I ended up having to have my mom get involved.

  • And she talked to the principal, and we eventually

  • worked it out.

  • But it was horrible, because it's not fair.

  • And so now, whatever I self-advocate, I usually keep

  • my accommodations list, like the little kind of summary of

  • my psych-ed report in my backpack just in case

  • anything comes up.

  • Because like Brian was saying, learning disabilities are

  • qualified under the--

  • BRIAN THOMAS: Americans with Disabilities Act.

  • ANNIE: Americans with Disability Act.

  • And so it's like the same thing as giving a wheelchair

  • to someone who can't walk or giving glasses to

  • someone who can't see.

  • It's just more of an invisible disability, so it tends to be

  • overlooked.

  • MIA: One of the main times that my accommodations haven't

  • worked for me is this year, because I moved from this

  • really small 45-student class--

  • teachers knew me.

  • They knew my accommodations by heart.

  • They knew everything I needed to succeed--

  • to this huge school.

  • And so the first day of class, I went down to all of my

  • teachers, and I explained my accommodations, and my LDs,

  • and what I needed from them.

  • And they were all really accommodating.

  • They all said it was fine, like anything that I needed

  • they would help me out.

  • And I was just like oh, this is going to be great.

  • I don't know what everyone was talking about.

  • This school, like all the teachers were awesome.

  • And then we had this math test, because basically what I

  • assumed was that my teacher-- it doesn't matter that she has

  • seven periods of 30 students.

  • She can remember something that I told her once.

  • So we had this math test, where we had

  • a substitute teacher.

  • And because I had only reminded her once, and I

  • wasn't fully advocating, wasn't reminding her, didn't

  • let her know the day before the test, she didn't put me on

  • the list for people with extended time.

  • She remembered my calculator, which was good, but not the

  • extended time part.

  • So although I was able to finish my test, my sub

  • wouldn't give me the 10 extra minutes that I needed to

  • finish checking the back of my sheet.

  • And literally, I only needed 10 minutes

  • during lunch or something.

  • And those few problems where I wasn't able to check over were

  • the only points that I lost on the test.

  • So that was just a little bit annoying.

  • But from then, I've learned that I just need to go back

  • and tell my teachers really frequently.

  • Every time I need something from them, I

  • need to let them know.

  • FIONA: For me, most of the problems that I've had really

  • come from me.

  • It's not other people.

  • I'm mean-- wait, I'm not saying that you guys were bad

  • or anything.

  • I'm sorry.

  • I just realized that how-- anyway.

  • But the most recent time that I can really remember where I

  • haven't been given an

  • accommodation has been in Mandarin.

  • And I really like Mandarin a lot.

  • But there is the most stupid assignment that exists that we

  • do every single week, and it's copy down all these

  • characters in boxes.

  • And I hate it so much.

  • And I've actually talked about it in class.

  • But that doesn't help, because everybody's

  • like shut up, Fiona!

  • [WHINING SOUNDS]

  • But anyway.

  • And I talked to my teacher, and he--

  • I don't know, I guess he just--

  • I'm not sure why he didn't give me the accommodation, but

  • I mean, what can you do sometimes?

  • But I did find a way to actually help, which is to

  • pretend to play Tetris with the boxes, so

  • that helped a lot.

  • BRIAN THOMAS: I'm going to ask two more questions, and then

  • we're going to open up for questions for other folks,

  • just so I know that you've been

  • sitting very, very patiently.

  • One of the sort of stock questions that we have is like

  • who's encouraged you.

  • And usually 80% to 90% of the people

  • would say their parents.

  • And more to the point, usually it's a mom, oftentimes, or

  • whoever's the custodial parent at home.

  • So this is actually advice for parents.

  • You know, advice for parents who are really beginning to go

  • through this whole idea of-- you know, I think my kid may

  • have a learning disability or I know my kid has a learning

  • disability.

  • What advice would you give them?

  • TAMARA: Well, advice that would give to parents who have

  • kids with LDs is--

  • I know this sounds kind of typical or cliche, but to give

  • them some space.

  • Because I know this has been really great for me when my

  • parents give me space.

  • Up until when I was in seventh grade, my

  • parents helped with homework.

  • And they are the most impatient people.

  • It was horrible to get help from them on homework.

  • Like it was bad for me, and it was bad for them.

  • So to make a long story short, when I was in seventh grade,

  • they stopped helping me with homework.

  • And that's when I started to rely on my teachers for help.

  • And I've always had really great teachers.

  • I always ask them my questions right and there, even when I

  • feel self-conscious, because I know that when I'm

  • home, I'm on my own.

  • I'm not asking my parents for help, so I need to know how to

  • do the work before I get home.

  • And the other thing is just to have faith in your kids,

  • because I know that--

  • kind of like when you really do, then it really shows.

  • And your kids will really trust in themselves.

  • And that's really the most important thing is to trust in

  • yourself and be confident.

  • FRANKIE: My advice for parents is really get to know your

  • child and what their difference is and what they're

  • dealing with.

  • Because it's important to understand what they need and

  • what they are going through.

  • And it it's important to know that because then you're not

  • going to be able to help your child.

  • And that is always one thing my mom is always done is she

  • knows what I have.

  • She knows what I need.

  • She knows what I struggle with.

  • She knows what my difficulties are.

  • She knows what my strengths are.

  • And without that, she won't be able to help me and tell a

  • teacher or even maybe tell a tutor, who I've recently gone,

  • that this is what he needs.

  • He needs this.

  • He's not going to be able to understand this unless you do

  • this, this and this.

  • So also just when they are having trouble, especially

  • when a child has recently been diagnosed and they're at an

  • older age, it can be one of the hardest

  • things to go through.

  • So just being there for a child saying that we're going

  • to figure this out.

  • We're going to get accommodations.

  • We're going to get everything figured out with the school.

  • That also really helps.

  • SEAN: So one thing my mom, especially, tells me when I

  • don't really do well on papers or tests is like OK, you

  • didn't do too well, but how are you

  • going to make it better?

  • What are you going to do to make the difference?

  • And that kind of helps, because to me, it encouraged

  • me that she has supported me that I can succeed and that I

  • can do it on my own.

  • I just think that that's great, that I

  • know she has my back.

  • ANNIE: I definitely agree with what everyone has said just

  • about generally being supportive.

  • The process from before you were diagnosed to when you

  • were diagnosed to after to even past when you've accepted

  • it, it's all pretty challenging in kind of

  • different ways, and just understanding how frustrating

  • it can be, and just generally being there.

  • But also, trying to stress the positives, because with

  • learning disabilities, often, it's only the negatives that

  • are focused on.

  • But I mean, I know we've had panel questions before that

  • are like what strengths accompany your learning

  • disabilities.

  • And everyone has two, three, four strengths that directly

  • correlate to their disability.

  • And that's not really talked about.

  • And you can really use those strengths to help compensate

  • for your struggles.

  • BRIAN THOMAS: What's your strength?

  • That was going to be my last question, by the way.

  • ANNIE: Oh, sorry.

  • BRIAN THOMAS: But that's OK.

  • FIONA: Spoiler alert.

  • BRIAN THOMAS: Yeah, spoiler alert.

  • But just a process check.

  • I know a lot of people probably have to begin to make

  • a move at 1:00 or shortly after, but tell me what your

  • strength is.

  • ANNIE: Let's see.

  • Well, despite the fact that writing takes me like hours,

  • like four or five hours to write an essay, I'm a really,

  • really solid writer when I have the amount of time.

  • And also because my brain approaches things from a

  • different direction, I'm really good at standardized

  • tests and math.

  • And I actually kind of really do enjoy math standardized

  • tests and tend to do really well on them.

  • Yeah, that's it.

  • BRIAN THOMAS: Great, thank you.

  • MIA: Well, going back to what parenting do I really--

  • I really agree with what everybody else is saying.

  • And also I was really lucky to have a mom who never did this,

  • but don't think that your child is stupid.

  • If they're having trouble in one of their subjects, if

  • they're having trouble in school, just know that they're

  • not stupid, know that they're not lazy, just know they're

  • having some trouble.

  • Just like when somebody has glasses, people don't assume

  • oh, they have glasses.

  • They can't see.

  • They must not good at school.

  • They must be stupid.

  • Just like if you have an LD or something, it doesn't mean

  • you're stupid and lazy.

  • It just means they might need help.

  • FIONA: Number one.

  • Don't kill your kids.

  • And second of all, I would say make them go to all of this

  • stuff themselves.

  • Because I can't--

  • I'm sure that my mom can tell you that it's really up to the

  • kid in the end what they do.

  • And if I don't feel like taking my meds today, because

  • I don't understand what they do, and because my mom just

  • sat me down and lectured me after she went to this thing.

  • I'm probably not going to do it.

  • It's not like I don't do it, though.

  • Just saying.

  • But it's important that they learn about it themselves,

  • because eventually they're going to leave and then they

  • won't know what is going on.

  • So make them go to SAFE.

  • BRIAN THOMAS: Great.

  • Just real quickly, there is the idea of Sally and Bennett

  • Shaywitz, who were really great friends at PEN, really

  • talk about overcoming dyslexia.

  • But these guys, they don't really need to overcome

  • anything, right?

  • They have defined, very focused strengths that make

  • them who they are, that make them the kind of learners and

  • the kind of people they are.

  • Annie certainly is taking a crack at answering this, but

  • some of the rest of you, could you just

  • talk about your strengths?

  • Just shout it out.

  • What are you good at?

  • TAMARA: Well, I'm really good at reading and writing, which

  • I used to think that I was actually bad at reading and

  • writing, because I always took a long time to do it.

  • But actually, I was taking this

  • literature class at my school.

  • And I was taking a long time to do it.

  • Because I take a long time to read things, and I have to

  • read things multiple times, that I actually get a lot of

  • detail, and I get a lot of the nuances and the symbolism.

  • And I realized that that when we were discussing the book in

  • class that I was actually really understanding it really

  • well, and that I was enjoying it.

  • And I realized this was one of my strengths.

  • And so that's when I started to feel proud of my learning

  • difference.

  • FRANKIE: So before maybe I was even a toddler, from before I

  • was diagnosed, acting.

  • Acting has always been one of my strengths.

  • I love getting up on stage.

  • Even just public speaking, like what we're doing right

  • now, through SAFE, I've figured out that I am actually

  • really good at public speaking,

  • getting in front of crowds.

  • And speaking my mind is something I'm really good at.

  • Playing a character on stage, I've always loved doing that.

  • When I was in middle school, I discovered I'm really good at

  • creative writing.

  • I suck at persuasive essays--

  • suck at it.

  • And I hate doing them.

  • And what I do sometimes, I'll do my own creative writing.

  • I write things myself.

  • I do short stories.

  • I do scripts.

  • So whenever I have free time, I'll do that.

  • Yeah, I think that's pretty much my biggest strengths.

  • SEAN: So my biggest strength is basically not giving up.

  • I mean, like I've been at the bottom.

  • I've failed many times, but I've always been able

  • to get out of it.

  • So, yeah, because of my learning disabilities, I've

  • been able to endure the worst and being able to bring it up.

  • FIONA: Weather the storm.

  • MIA: I have a lot of the similar things, like

  • perseverance and being able to talk in public, and advocate

  • for myself, and be able to tell people what I need and

  • how they can help me get there.

  • I had something-- oh yeah, also because of ADD or ADHD,

  • being very fidgety and kind of hyperactive, that helps me out

  • when I play sports and also when I'm working

  • with younger kids.

  • Like I worked at a circus camp with Annie over the summer.

  • And because of my ADD, in addition to just overall

  • excitedness, I'm able to keep up with them, and just kind of

  • keep going, and really excited about everything.

  • FIONA: I kind of have--

  • this is sort of relating to what Frank was saying, is that

  • I'm really good at acting, but it's mostly because I really

  • good at understanding what other people are feeling.

  • Like I'll kind of take the time to really think through

  • what other people or what other characters are kind of

  • why they're doing the things that they're doing.

  • And I think that's a really big strength that I have, too.

  • BRIAN THOMAS: Any other questions?

  • Or question to the--

  • question was to Tamara, and it's about you said about

  • talking about your parents giving you room, but what's

  • behind that?

  • TAMARA: Well, I've never answered that question before,

  • so I'll just do my best.

  • I've never consciously thought about it.

  • But I feel like I really appreciate when my parents

  • understand my learning difference, because I think

  • that sometimes it's kind of hard to understand.

  • And so when they do, I feel really happy, because

  • sometimes when they ask me a question, and you know how

  • people, when you ask them a question, they kind of expect

  • an automatic answer But I'm not really good at that.

  • And so my mom and my dad understand that I just need a

  • little longer to think about it.

  • And it's not that I'm ignoring them.

  • So I think it's a combination of kind of supporting them,

  • because I know that I can talk to my mom whenever I need to.

  • And also I guess a combination of that and giving me room, so

  • I guess it's the kind of nice that I can always go to them,

  • and they'll check on me once in awhile.

  • BRIAN THOMAS: The question was the turning point in your

  • lives when you decided to either go in one direction or

  • not, right?

  • So when you decided that you were either going to bomb out

  • or you were going to really tackle this head on.

  • So Fiona, want to start off with this?

  • FIONA: Well, I would probably say it was the fact that I

  • really, really like learning.

  • And if you really like learning and if you really

  • like what--

  • even if you're not good at reading, but let's say that

  • you really like what books have to say, if that's what

  • really makes you happy, then you'll be willing to go

  • through a lot of stuff.

  • I mean, if people alienate you, you've always got books.

  • Books are your friends.

  • Because books are awesome.

  • Even if they don't have words, they can have pictures.

  • Pictures are nice.

  • But yeah, I mean, overall, I would say it's hard.

  • To raise your kids to be motivated, even if they don't

  • have a learning disability, how do you even do that?

  • So you're on your own.

  • BRIAN THOMAS: Tamara?

  • Oh sorry, go ahead.

  • MIA: I think one of the main turning points for me when I

  • stopped going-- oh, I don't really care.

  • I'm horrible at it anyway.

  • Why even try?-- was probably when they stopped testing us

  • on math facts for speed.

  • Because I remember in fourth grade, Mad Minutes--

  • 30 multiplication facts in one minute.

  • I think I accomplished three over the course of the year

  • when my classmates, they got to the 60 division facts.

  • So once they stopped testing us, first testing us on

  • spelling, just like tests of them, and also when they

  • stopped just basically the memorization and more to the

  • thinking about it.

  • And like Fiona, I really enjoy learning.

  • I really want to learn.

  • But so I think once they stopped doing it for facts,

  • and once learning turns into more concept, ideas, and what

  • your opinion is, that was my turning point.

  • ANNIE: Basically, it wasn't like

  • just a moment or anything.

  • It's kind of the process of going from having all these

  • struggles and realizing that there is a reason and then

  • understanding what that label means and then like--

  • when I was diagnosed with dyslexia, I eventually read

  • through my psych-ed report.

  • And my mom became really educated and was able to

  • really help me learn what it is.

  • And once you do know what your label means, you're able to

  • figure out accommodations and strategies and strengths.

  • And then once you have the strength and strategies, the

  • playing field's kind of leveled and everything just

  • doesn't seem so impossible anymore.

  • And it's just not as intimidating and a

  • lot easier to tackle.

  • SEAN: So the turning point for me was probably when I

  • graduated from eighth grade, because I decided that I could

  • be whoever I wanted to be.

  • I wasn't constricted to oh, he can't learn.

  • Let's just kind up give up on him.

  • So it was basically that, when I basically said, OK, I'm

  • going to be this straight-A student.

  • I'm going to be the smartest student there.

  • And also another moment that kept me on that track was when

  • my learning disability teacher or mentor or whatever you

  • would want to call him, he has a sign that's

  • hanging up in his room.

  • And it's "no excuses." So he wouldn't let me use my

  • learning disabilities as an excuse for not succeeding.

  • FRANKIE: My turning point was probably when I joined SAFE

  • Voices, just because where I went to school at Charles

  • Armstrong, I went to that school for seven years, from

  • second to eighth grade.

  • And like I was saying, well, like I said earlier, being

  • different was normal.

  • So I didn't really think about it until I got into high

  • school, and I joined SAFE.

  • And after going to a few SAFE Voices meetings, I really

  • realized OK, I'm just going to keep on fighting for it.

  • I'm going to keep on going and going until I reach my goal.

  • And every time, every year, I'm getting closer and closer

  • to my goal.

  • I'm figuring out what I want to do with myself after

  • college, what my interests are, what I'm good at, what

  • I'm bad at.

  • TAMARA: So I think I kind of have one specific moment,

  • which doesn't sound like a big deal when I'm saying it aloud,

  • but it was a pretty big deal for me.

  • I was reading this novel by Toni Morrison

  • for the first time.

  • In the beginning, I was like oh, man, this is so hard.

  • All the symbols, I don't get it.

  • And then we had discussions every day.

  • And one day, I just said this one comment that I didn't even

  • know that I knew.

  • But I just said it.

  • It was kind of like an instant--

  • like the words just crawled up my throat

  • and burst out, basically.

  • And I was like, wow, I didn't even know I could do that.

  • And from then, I started to really realize that I'm good

  • at these analyzing things and kind of character analysis.

  • BRIAN THOMAS: And I just have to say we have

  • to stop right there.

  • I'm going to turn it back over to Debbie, but the corollary

  • to Sean's-- in his RSP room, which is "no excuses" should

  • be for parents certainly, for schools, for people like me,

  • administrators, and certainly for teachers, which is just

  • don't give up.

  • To see every student that you have, every child that you

  • have in front of you can learn and would really like to

  • learn, no matter what they're giving off sometimes.

  • But it's not giving up on an individual student.

  • It's not so much about that the kids not having excuses,

  • which is great.

  • And it's not really about overcoming either.

  • I think it's about that nexus between when two people sit

  • down, where there's a teacher and a student, and says OK,

  • let's begin.

  • And it sounds like these guys have done a great job.

  • So if you can give them a round of applause for that.

  • [APPLAUSE]

[APPLAUSE]

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A2 初級

青少年在學習上的差異(Panel Discussion: Teens with Learning Differences)

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    Why Why 發佈於 2013 年 03 月 29 日
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