Thank you very much for having me.

非常感謝邀請我來。

Uh, I am a big fan of your work.

呃，我非常熱愛你的作品。

You have been making some of the funniest films that we have had the pleasure of enjoying in the cinema.

你創作出了一些我們有幸進戲院享受最好笑的電影。

-Thank God. -But "Jojo Rabbit" is truly one of the strangest films people will go and watch, in an amazing way.

- 感謝。 - 但是《兔嘲男孩》真的將會是人們觀賞到最古怪的電影之一，好得很怪。

- Yeah. - How do you even begin to pitch to a studio, "Hey, guys, I'm gonna make a movie about a young boy who's growing up in Nazi Germany, and his imaginary friend is Hitler."

真的，你到底是怎麼向電影公司提案募資的？「嘿大家，我要拍一部電影，主角是一個生長於納粹德國的小男孩，而且他的想像朋友是希特勒。

You say, "Hey, guys," and then you stop there.

我就說：「嘿大家！」，然後就結束。

That's pretty much it.

差不多就那樣。

It was a very hard film to pitch.

這部電影很難提案。

"Oh, uh, so, it's a film about a young boy in the Hitler Youth."

「呃，這部電影關於希特勒青年團中的一個小男孩。」

Most people are, "Mm, that's enough for me."

大部分的人就會說：「嗯，我聽夠了。」

"Not interested."

「沒興趣。」

- I ended up having to write the script and let that do all the talking for me with this. - Right.

- 我最後得寫好劇本然後讓人們讀了之後見真章。 - 是這樣啊。

It is a very hard thing to pitch 'cause tonally, it shifts around quite a lot.

這部電影找投資人時很難提案，因為就調性而言，整部電影變動很大。

There's a lot of comedy, and drama, and tragedy, and it is a real mix.

電影包含很多喜劇、劇情片和悲劇元素，是個大融合。

-You can't kind of pick one. -Right, yeah. It really...

- 你不太能只選一個來講。 - 沒錯，其實...

It really is sharp in a satirical voice, as well because, you know, you're commenting on something that we all know happened.

其實這部電影也相當犀利諷刺，因為你知道的，這是在評論一個大家熟知的重大事件。

But what's really interesting is you're commenting on something that I think a lot of people don't talk enough about today in the world, and that is how we are conditioned from the time we're children.

但真的很有趣的是，你也在議論一個我認為現今人們很少談論的主題，也就是我們如何在孩童時期被塑形。

-Yeah. -You see this little child who is born in Nazi Germany, and he is only taught to be a Nazi.

- 是的。- 電影中看到一個出生於納粹德國的小孩，而他只被教導要成為一名納粹份子。

And we like him because we sort of understand that he had no other choice.

而我們喜歡他，因為我們隱約知道他別無選擇。

And we see the conflict that he has with being a Nazi and then, like, his mother going like, "No, you can be a good person."

我們也看到他對於成為納粹份子以及媽媽說：「不，你可以成為一個好人。」之間心中的衝突。

Yeah, that's right, and when children were indoctrinated into the Hitler Youth, um, the first lesson they were taught was to rebel against your parents.

沒錯，而且當小孩被洗腦吸收進希特勒青年團，他們被教導的第一課就是要反抗父母。

"Don't listen to your parents and what they try and tell you."

「不要聽從父母和他們說的話。」

"Listen to us. You know, we... "Hitler is now your father, and listen to us, and listen to, you know, your teachers."

「聽我們的，你知道我們...」「現在希特勒才是你的父親，聽從我們的，聽從你的老師們。」

Um, and, so, if a parent in those times...

呃，所以呢，若是那個時代的父母...

- If you, you know, if you wanted to try and convince your child, "Don't be a Nazi," uh, it was a very, it was a very dangerous thing to do. -Right.

- 如果想嘗試說服小孩：「不要變成納粹份子。」，是件非常危險的事。 - 沒錯。

You know, 'cause they would say, "If your parents, uh, you know, if they, if they judge us or if they criticize the party, tell us, and we'll take care of that."

你知道的，他們會說：「如果你的父母批判我們或批評納粹黨，跟我們說，我們就會處理。」

-"We'll take care of your parents." -Yeah.

- 「我們會處理掉你父母。」 - 對。

- Right. - And you see that in the story.

沒錯，而你在這個故事中看得到這種情形。

And I really wish I could explain to people.

我很希望能向人們解釋。

I don't want to give anything away, but it's, like... It really is, It is a weird movie in that, like, you're laughing, and then you're sad, and then you're angry.

我不想先劇透，但是...這真的是部奇怪的電影，讓你一下大笑，一下難過然後一下生氣。

And then there's moments where you're like, "This feels like what's happening today."

而且還會有時候讓你覺得：「這件事感覺現今正在發生。」

-Yeah. -You know? You feel people who are radicalized, and you go, "Why do you have this hate, or "Why do you feel the way you do?"

- 對。 - 你懂嗎？你感覺到人們非常激進，便問他們說：「你們為什麼心懷怨恨？」或是「你們為什麼感受如此？」

And they're like, "Well, that's all I've known."

他們回答道：「我只知道要這樣。」

Isn't it weird that in 2019, someone still has to make a movie trying to explain to people not to be a Nazi?

到了 2019 年還需要有人拍一部電影試著告訴大家不要成為納粹份子，這不是很奇怪嗎？

Was it ever awkward for you, like, looking in the mirror?

你當時照鏡子的時候不會覺得很尷尬嗎？

I mean, like, did your family say anything?

我是說，你的家人有說什麼嗎？

Because, I mean, you know, you...

因為你知道的...

Well, my mother came to visit set, and we were shooting in Prague...

我媽有來拍攝現場，那時候我們在布拉格拍片。

- 'Cause a lot of people don't know this about you, but you're Jewish. -Yeah.

- 因為很多人不知道，你是猶太人。- 對。

And, like, like, like, you have Jewish family, and that makes it okay.

然後，你生長於猶太家庭，這樣就沒關係。

Well, what I'm saying, like, that makes it more awkward, I think, is that, like..

我要說的是，我以為會因此變得更尷尬。

It makes it more... Oh, for sure.

變得更... 噢當然。

- And it... - So, like, your family is just like, "Wait, so you're gonna... you're gonna be Hitler?"

- 而且... - 所以你的家人就說：「等等，你要演希特勒？」

There's double the guilt going on.

雙倍罪惡感。

There's double...

雙倍。

So, I, uh...

所以我...

No, I put the costume on for the first time.

不是，我當時第一次穿上戲服。

On paper, it's simply, "This is gonna be a great idea."

理論上只是想說：「這將是個好主意。」

Uh, then you put it all on.

然後把戲服全穿上。

You put the ridiculous mustache on, and you look in the mirror, and, I mean, really, the main word to describe it all is "embarrassed."

把那個荒謬的八字鬍戴上，然後看看鏡子，真的最主要能形容的詞就是「尷尬」。

-Oh, that's right. I was embarrassed. -Right.

- 噢，原來如此，我當時是感到尷尬。 - 原來如此。

And... but imagine trying to, uh, to direct people dressed like that.

然後... 但想像一下穿那樣當導演。

You know, 'cause, you know, like, you go through, you go through most of your day, you know, you don't really remember what you look like.

因為過了大半天。就不會記得自己穿怎樣。

And I was like, I'll be directing people, "Hey, that's really good. Um, that was really good, Scarlett."

我當時執導時就會說：「嘿，很棒，史嘉蕾。」

"So, look, why don't we just try to do another one where you go over there."

「那我們何不再試一次然後你走過去那裡。」

And you can see, like, she's there going...

然後就看到她這樣...

And I would catch a little glimpse of myself in a reflection and realize, "Oh, my God. That's right. I'm dressed like this guy."

再來我就會喵到倒影中的自己然後意識到：「噢，天啊！沒錯，我打扮得就像希特勒。」

- Yes, you are... - And, so, then I said, "So, you don't have to do what I say. I'm not..."

- 對，沒錯... - 然後我就會說：「你不用一定要照我說得做，我不是在...」

"That's not an order. I'm not tell..."

「那不是個命令，我沒有要告訴...」

"I'm not... I'm not forcing you to do that."

「我沒有要強迫你那麼做。」

"This is... It's your choice."

「讓你選。」

"Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a free person."

「對對對，你是自由之身。」

"You know, 2019. You do what you want. -"

「你知道的，都 2019 年了，做你想做的事。」

"Hey, I'm not directing. I'm suggesting."

「我不是在命令，我在建議。」

"I'm not directing, I'm suggesting."

「我不是在命令，我在建議。」

-"You do it." -"A suggestion. It's the power of suggestion."

- 「你來做。」 - 「一個建議，這是建議的力量。」

Um, you have a really stellar cast.

嗯，這個卡司非常精彩。

I mean, the young man who we see there playing Jojo the Rabbit, he's phenomenal.

我是說，我們所看見飾演小兔喬喬的男孩，他演得棒極了。

And, I mean, yoike, all these young kids in the movie are so amazing in playing the story.

還有約克，電影裡所有的小孩都將故事演得非常棒。

And then you have Scarlett Johansson, who's also phenomenal as the mom in the story.

然後還有史嘉蕾喬韓森，她也把故事裡的媽媽演得非常出色。

Why did you choose to center the story around the kids?

你為什麼選擇以孩子為故事主軸？

Because it's not a story told through the lens of the adults.

因為這不是一個透過大人視角講述的故事。

-The adults are in the story, but it is really through the lens of children. -Yeah. -Why?

- 大人們的確出現在故事中，但其實是透過孩子的視角呈現。 - 對。 - 為什麼？

Well, I've never really seen films set, uh, with, uh, with a backdrop of conflict or wars really from a child's point of view.

嗯，我從沒看過以戰爭、戰亂為背景卻真正採用孩童觀點的電影。

And I really wanted to explore that, uh, that world.

我非常想探索那個領域。

And I've worked with a lot of kids in my films.

而且我在我的作品中很常跟小孩子合作。

Like, a lot of my films, uh, you know, they deal with, you know, young boys with dad issues.

像是說，我的電影很多都在探討有戀父情結的小男孩。

Yeah, but, so, I've always worked with these kids.

所以我很常和小孩子合作。

And the boy plays Jojo, Roman Griffin Davis, incredibly beautiful, sensitive young guy who, um, who really carries the film and really saved me from embarrassment.

飾演喬喬的 Roman Griffin Davis 是個非常動人、感性的年輕人，他真的扛起了整部電影並讓我不要那麼尷尬。

I think there's nothing to be embarrassed about.

我覺得沒有什麼好尷尬的。

It's truly one of the most original, funny, fantastic films I've watched in a very long time.

這是我很久以來看過最有創意、最搞笑、最棒的電影之一。

-Thank you very much for being on the show. -Thank you.

- 非常謝謝你來上我們的節目。 - 謝謝。

Thank you for making the movie, for real.

謝謝你拍出這部電影，真的。

"Jojo Rabbit" opens in select cities October 18 and will be in theaters nationwide very soon.

《兔嘲男孩》十月十八號在指定戲院上映，並且很快就會全國上映。

Taika Waititi, everybody.

掌聲謝謝導演 Taika Waititi。