Richard Branson: Thank you very much. The first TED has been great.

理查•布蘭森 （理）：十分感謝。我的 TED 初體驗到目前都非常的棒。

CA: Have you met anyone interesting?

克：這次活動你碰到什麼有趣的人了嗎？

RB: Well, the nice thing about TED is everybody's interesting.

理：這個嘛，TED 最棒的一點就是每個人都很有趣。

I was very glad to see Goldie Hawn,

見到歌蒂•韓（美國女星），我很開心

because I had an apology to make to her.

因為我對她有點過意不去，

I'd had dinner with her about two years ago and I'd --

大約兩年前，我有幸跟她共進晚餐，

she had this big wedding ring and I put it on my finger and I couldn't get it off.

她有一個很大的結婚戒指，我戴在自己手上一試，結果摘不下來了。

And I went home to my wife that night

晚上我回到家，

and she wanted to know why I had another woman's big,

見到我妻子，她想知道為何我手上有另一個女人的

massive, big wedding ring on my finger.

碩大無比的結婚戒指。

And, anyway, the next morning we had to go along to the jeweler

不管怎麼樣， 第二天我們不得不去珠寶商那兒

and get it cut off.

把戒指剪斷。

So -- (Laughter) --

所以，（笑聲）

so apologies to Goldie.

對不起，歌蒂。

CA: That's pretty good.

克：很有意思的故事

So, we're going to put up some slides

現在我們放幾張投影片

of some of your companies here.

是有關你的幾家公司的

You've started one or two in your time.

當年你從一兩家公司起家，

So, you know, Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Records --

就是維珍航空和維珍唱片

I guess it all started with a magazine called Student.

我聽說這一切，都是從一本名為《學生》的雜誌開始的，

And then, yes, all these other ones as well. I mean, how do you do this?

後來發展到今天的一切。我想問的是，你是怎麼做到的？

RB: I read all these sort of TED instructions:

理：我讀了 TED 演講指南，

you must not talk about your own business, and this,

上面說不能談自己生意上的事，

and now you ask me.

現在你倒來問我，

So I suppose you're not going to be able to kick me off the stage,

要是我回答， 你應該不會把我趕下臺吧？

since you asked the question.

因為問題是由你起頭的。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

CA: It depends what the answer is though.

克：那就要看你怎麼回答了。

RB: No, I mean, I think I learned early on that if you can run one company,

理：不，我的意思是，我早年學到，要是你能經營一家公司

you can really run any companies.

你就可以經營任何公司

I mean, companies are all about finding the right people,

我的意思是，經營公司的關鍵，就是要找到合適的人，

inspiring those people, you know, drawing out the best in people.

激發他們，要知道，就是使他們發揮各自最佳的優勢。

And I just love learning and I'm incredibly inquisitive

而且，我樂於學習，還很不恥下問，

and I love taking on, you know, the status quo

要知道我很喜歡挑戰舊有的窠臼，

and trying to turn it upside down.

喜歡顛覆傳統。

So I've seen life as one long learning process.

所以生活對我來說是一種學習過程 ，

And if I see -- you know, if I fly on somebody else's airline

要知道，就像那天我坐在別人的航班上

and find the experience is not a pleasant one, which it wasn't,

感覺不怎麼自在，真的不舒服，

21 years ago, then I'd think, well, you know, maybe I can create

那是 21 年前， 我當時想，也許我能

the kind of airline that I'd like to fly on.

創造一家讓人樂於搭乘的航空公司。

And so, you know, so got one secondhand 747 from Boeing and gave it a go.

後來，我買了架二手波音 747，小試一把

CA: Well, that was a bizarre thing,

克：呃，這真是一件奇怪的事。

because you made this move that a lot of people advised you was crazy.

一堆人都認為你瘋了才會這麼做。

And in fact, in a way, it almost took down your empire at one point.

事實上，這一舉動差點毀掉你半邊江山 。

I had a conversation with one of the investment bankers who,

一次我和一個投資銀行家聊天，

at the time when you basically sold Virgin Records

那時候，你基本上已經賣掉維珍唱片公司

and invested heavily in Virgin Atlantic,

重點投資維珍航空，

and his view was that you were trading, you know,

那銀行家覺得

the world's fourth biggest record company

用世界上第四大唱片公司

for the twenty-fifth biggest airline and that you were out of your mind.

換來排名第 25 的航空公司，你肯定腦子出問題了。

Why did you do that?

你為什麼會那樣做？

RB: Well, I think that there's a very thin dividing line between success and failure.

理：這個嘛，我覺得成敗僅一線之隔

And I think if you start a business without financial backing,

而且，創建公司要是沒有雄厚的資金做後盾，

you're likely to go the wrong side of that dividing line.

你很可能會被推向失敗的一邊。

We had -- we were being attacked by British Airways.

我們當時面臨英國航空的競爭，

They were trying to put our airline out of business,

他們想讓我們倒閉，

and they launched what's become known as the dirty tricks campaign.

他們發佈了一些下流的廣告文宣，

And I realized that the whole empire was likely to come crashing down

當時，我意識到，我的帝國很可能會毀於一旦。

unless I chipped in a chip.

除非我另闢蹊徑，

And in order to protect the jobs of the people who worked for the airline,

為了保住航空公司員工們的飯碗，

and protect the jobs of the people who worked for the record company,

同時也保住唱片公司員工的飯碗，

I had to sell the family jewelry to protect the airline.

我不得不顧全大局變賣家產以保住航空公司。

CA: Post-Napster, you're looking like a bit of a genius, actually,

克：後 Napster（一種線上音樂服務）時代作風，

for that as well.

此舉還真是天才。

RB: Yeah, as it turned out, it proved to be the right move.

理：是啊， 現在看來這可真是明智之舉。

But, yeah, it was sad at the time, but we moved on.

但當時可是挺傷心的，但我們勇於向前邁進。

CA: Now, you use the Virgin brand a lot

克：現在你的維珍品牌涉及範圍廣泛，

and it seems like you're getting synergy from one thing to the other.

看起來你的各個企業彼此之間是互利共生，具有加成作用的。

What does the brand stand for in your head?

在你心中維珍品牌代表的是什麼呢？

RB: Well, I like to think it stands for quality,

理：我覺得維珍就是品質的代言，

that you know, if somebody comes across a Virgin company, they --

要知道，如果有人恰巧看到維珍旗下的一家公司，他們會 ...

CA: They are quality, Richard. Come on now, everyone says quality. Spirit?

克：維珍就是品質，理查，行行好，人人都說品質，精神層面呢？

RB: No, but I was going to move on this.

理：不是的，但我馬上就會談到這一點

We have a lot of fun and I think the people who work for it enjoy it.

我們的工作中充滿樂子，我覺得員工們都相當樂在其中。

As I say, we go in and shake up other industries,

就像我說的，我們入行就是要撼動其他的行業，

and I think, you know, we do it differently

並且我認為，要知道，我們的方法是很與眾不同的，

and I think that industries are not quite the same

因為維珍進軍了他們的市場，

as a result of Virgin attacking the market.

這些行業從此開始發生了改變。

CA: I mean, there are a few launches you've done

克：我的意思是，你創立的公司有沒有

where the brand maybe hasn't worked quite as well.

運營情況不佳的，

I mean, Virgin Brides -- what happened there?

比如：維珍新娘，它的現狀怎麼解釋？

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

RB: We couldn't find any customers.

理：我們壓根就找不到顧客。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

(Applause)

（掌聲）

CA: I was actually also curious why --

克：我很好奇的是，

I think you missed an opportunity with your condoms launch. You called it Mates.

我覺得你在保險套商品的發行上錯失了一次機會，你將其命名為「伴侶」（Mates）

I mean, couldn't you have used the Virgin brand for that as well?

我是說，你為什麼不把它也納入維珍名下呢？

Ain't virgin no longer, or something.

是因為不再是處子之身（維珍 virgin 原文意為處子之身），或類似的理由嗎？

RB: Again, we may have had problems finding customers.

理：同樣，這樣做就很難會有人光顧啦。

I mean, we had -- often, when you launch a company and you get customer complaints,

我是說，我們剛開業時總是會收到顧客的抱怨，

you know, you can deal with them.

這些是可以應付得了的。

But about three months after the launch of the condom company,

但在保險套公司運營了三個月後，

I had a letter, a complaint,

我們收到一 封信，一封投訴信，

and I sat down and wrote a long letter back to this lady apologizing profusely.

後來，我坐下來寫了一封很長的信並向這位女士致以最誠摯的歉意，

But obviously, there wasn't a lot I could do about it.

但很明顯， 除此以外我也做不了什麼，

And then six months later, or nine months after the problem had taken,

問題出現的六個月後，也許是九個月後，

I got this delightful letter with a picture of the baby

我收到一封令人愉快的回信，信上附了一張嬰兒的照片，

asking if I'd be godfather, which I became.

詢問我是否願意做這孩子的教父，我欣然答應，

So, it all worked out well.

所以事情進展地還算順利 。

CA: Really? You should have brought a picture. That's wonderful.

克：真的？ 你應該帶張照片來的。這真是棒極了。

RB: I should have.

理：我是應該帶照片來的。

CA: So, just help us with some of the numbers.

克：那麼，幫我們搞清楚一些數據吧。

I mean, what are the numbers on this?

我是說，這些數字是多少呢？

I mean, how big is the group overall?

這整個集團到底有多大？

How much -- what's the total revenue?

盈收是多少呢？

RB: It's about 25 billion dollars now, in total.

理：現在總共大概 250 億美元吧。

CA: And how many employees?

克：有多少員工呢？

RB: About 55,000.

理：大約 5 萬 5 千人。

CA: So, you've been photographed in various ways at various times

克：不同場合下你上鏡無數，

and never worrying about putting your dignity on the line or anything like that.

但你從沒思考過自己在媒體上的形象問題。

What was that? Was that real?

這是怎麼回事？是真的嗎？

RB: Yeah. We were launching a megastore in Los Angeles, I think.

理：千真萬確。我們在洛杉磯開了一家巨型商店，

No, I mean, I think --

不，我是指 ...

CA: But is that your hair?

克：那真的是你的頭髮嗎？

RB: No.

理：不。

CA: What was that one?

克：這又是怎麼回事？

RB: Dropping in for tea.

理：抵達一個茶會場合。

CA: OK.

克：好吧

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

RB: Ah, that was quite fun. That was a wonderful car-boat in which --

克：挺有意思的。那個有趣的車船裡 ...

CA: Oh, that car that we -- actually we --

理：噢，那部車，事實上，我們 ...

it was a TEDster event there, I think.

這輛車是一個 TEDster 做出來的。

Is that -- could you still pause on that one actually, for a minute?

那個不會是 ... 你能在這投影片上多停留幾秒嗎？

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

RB: It's a tough job, isn't it?

理：這是個困難的工作，不是嗎？

CA: I mean, it is a tough job.

克：的確是挺困難的？

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

When I first came to America, I used to try this with employees as well

剛到美國時，我還習於與員工們一起這麼做呢，

and they kind of -- they have these different rules over here,

但是他們，他們這邊的規矩挺不一樣，

it's very strange.

真是非常奇怪。

RB: I know, I have -- the lawyers say you mustn't do things like that, but --

理：是啊， 我的律師告訴我千萬別這麼做，但是 ...

CA: I mean, speaking of which, tell us about --

克：說到這個，跟大家說說 ...

RB: "Pammy" we launched, you know --

理：你聽說過我們所推出的帕米 (Pammy) 嗎，

mistakenly thought we could take on Coca-Cola,

錯以為可以擊敗可口可樂，

and we launched a cola bottle called "The Pammy"

我們推出的瓶裝碳酸飲料叫帕米，

and it was shaped a bit like Pamela Anderson.

瓶體形狀有點像帕米拉•安德森（美國豔星）。

But the trouble is, it kept on tipping over, but --

但問題是瓶體上半部太重，老是翻倒，但 ...

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

CA: Designed by Philippe Starck perhaps?

克：搞不好是菲力浦•斯塔克（著名法國設計師）設計的？

RB: Of course.

理：真的是這樣。

CA: So, we'll just run a couple more pictures here. Virgin Brides. Very nice.

克：我們再多看幾張圖片。維珍新娘。很不錯。

And, OK, so stop there. This was -- you had some award I think?

好的，這張。我猜，你大概得了什麼獎吧？

RB: Yeah, well, 25 years earlier, we'd launched the Sex Pistols'

理：是的，25 年前我們推出了《性手槍》（Sex Pistols 為英國龐克樂團）

"God Save The Queen," and I'd certainly never expected

《天佑吾王》單曲，我怎麼也沒有想到，

that 25 years later -- that she'd actually knight us.

25 年後女王竟然授予我爵士頭銜。

But somehow, she must have had a forgetful memory, I think.

我覺得她一定記性不太好，

CA: Well, God saved her and you got your just reward.

克：不妨想成是，上天真的保佑了女王，所以你得到了應有的獎勵。

Do you like to be called Sir Richard, or how?

你喜歡被人稱做理查爵士嗎？還是應該如合稱呼比較好？

RB: Nobody's ever called me Sir Richard.

理：壓根沒人會稱我為爵士，

Occasionally in America, I hear people saying Sir Richard

在美國偶爾會聽到有人那樣叫，

and think there's some Shakespearean play taking place.

但我總是會覺得，是不是附近某處莎翁舞臺劇正在上演。

But nowhere else anyway.

但也僅限於美國，除此之外，別無它處。

CA: OK. So can you use your knighthood for anything or is it just ...

克：好吧， 你的頭銜能為你撈到任何好處嗎，還是僅僅 …

RB: No. I suppose if you're having problems

理：沒有， 但我猜當你有什麼困難的時候，

getting a booking in a restaurant or something,

例如：餐廳訂不到位，或是別的什麼。

that might be worth using it.

倒是值得一試。

CA: You know, it's not Richard Branson. It's Sir Richard Branson.

克：要知道，這可不是一般的理查•布蘭森，是理查•布蘭森爵士呀。

RB: I'll go get the secretary to use it.

理：我會讓我的秘書開始這樣叫我的。

CA: OK. So let's look at the space thing.

克：好的， 再來看看你的太空計畫。

I think, with us, we've got a video that shows what you're up to,

我覺得，我們有個影片，可以告訴我們你下一步想幹什麼，

and Virgin Galactic up in the air. (Video)

把維珍星際航向宇宙。

So that's the Bert Rutan designed spaceship?

這是伯特•魯坦 （美國航太工程師）設計的太空船嗎？

RB: Yeah, it'll be ready in -- well, ready in 12 months

理：是啊， 再過個 12 個月，就可以準備升空了，

and then we do 12 months extensive testing.

接下來再做 12 個月的高強度的試飛，

And then 24 months from now,

就是說再過 24 個月，

people will be able to take a ride into space.

一般民眾就可以遨遊太空了。

CA: So this interior is Philippe Starcke designed?

克：那麼室內設計是由菲力浦•斯塔克經手的嗎？

RB: Philippe has done the -- yeah, quite a bit of it:

理：菲力浦設計了一部分，嗯，相當大的一部分，

the logos and he's building the space station in New Mexico.

標誌是他設計的，現在他在新墨西哥州建造太空發射站

And basically, he's just taken an eye

基本上他的想法是一隻眼睛，

and the space station will be one giant eye,

太空發射站就是一隻巨眼，

so when you're in space,

所以，當你在太空中，

you ought to be able to see this massive eye looking up at you.

你應該可以看見這巨眼向上眺望著你。

And when you land, you'll be able to go back into this giant eye.

回程時，你將會回到這隻巨眼內。

But he's an absolute genius when it comes to design.

談到設計，他真是個天才。

CA: But you didn't have him design the engine?

克：但你可沒讓他設計引擎啊？

RB: Philippe is quite erratic,

理：菲力浦有很多鬼點子。

so I think that he wouldn't be the best person to design the engine, no.

所以我覺得他不是設計引擎的最佳人選。

CA: He gave a wonderful talk here two days ago.

克：兩天前，菲力浦帶給我們一段精彩的演說。

RB: Yeah? No, he is a --

理：真的嗎？ 不會的，他是個 ...

CA: Well, some people found it wonderful,

克：有人覺得講得很好，

some people found it completely bizarre.

有人覺得很怪異，但，

But, I personally found it wonderful.

就我個人而言，我很欣賞。

RB: He's a wonderful enthusiast, which is why I love him. But ...

理：他是個妙不可言、充滿激情的人，我很欣賞他。但 ...

CA: So, now, you've always had this exploration bug in you.

克：那麼， 你現在整天都在想著星際探索，

Have you ever regretted that?

你後悔過嗎？

RB: Many times.

理：數不勝數。

I mean, I think with the ballooning and boating expeditions we've done in the past.

我的意思是，以前的熱氣球啊、船啊之類的探險，人們都做過了，

Well, I got pulled out of the sea I think six times by helicopters, so --

我總共有六次從海面上被救援直昇機救起的經驗，

and each time, I didn't expect to come home to tell the tale.

每次，我都沒預期我還能回家講述這段經驗。

So in those moments,

在那些命懸一線之際，

you certainly wonder what you're doing up there or --

你一定會懷疑自己在這兒幹什麼 …

CA: What was the closest you got to --

克：你最驚險的經歷是什麼？

when did you think, this is it, I might be on my way out?

哪次有讓你覺得大限已到、死期將近的感覺？

RB: Well, I think the balloon adventures were -- each one was,

理：我覺得熱氣球探險，次次都是，

each one, actually, I think we came close.

每次，實際上，都挺險的，

And, I mean, first of all we --

首先，我們

nobody had actually crossed the Atlantic in a hot air balloon before,

以前從來沒人坐熱氣球橫跨大西洋過，

so we had to build a hot air balloon that was capable of flying in the jet stream,

所以我們必須設計出能在同溫層噴射氣流中航行的熱氣球，

and we weren't quite sure,

我們自己也是疑慮重重，

when a balloon actually got into the jet stream,

當氣球行駛在噴射氣流中時，

whether it would actually survive the 200, 220 miles an hour winds that you can find up there.

它能否挺過時速 200, 220 哩的高空氣流。

And so, just the initial lift off from Sugarloaf to cross the Atlantic,

所以，當氣球從 Sugarloaf 起飛要橫越大西洋時

as we were pushing into the jet stream, this enormous balloon --

就在上升到噴射氣流區時，那個巨大的氣球

the top of the balloon ended up going at a couple of hundred miles an hour,

頂端以時速數百哩在前進，

the capsule that we were in at the bottom was going at maybe two miles an hour,

但底部的座艙時速卻大概只有 2 哩。

and it just took off.

這還僅僅是起飛呢。

And it was like holding onto a thousand horses.

就好像拉著上千匹馬一般。

And we were just crossing every finger,

我們只好祈求一切順利，

praying that the balloon would hold together, which, fortunately, it did.

祈禱氣球能保持完整，幸運的是，它辦到了。

But the ends of all those balloon trips were, you know --

但每次氣球探險之旅的結果，你知道，

something seemed to go wrong every time,

每次都會出差錯，

and on that particular occasion, the more experienced balloonist who was with me

有一次連跟我一起駕駛氣球的的老手，

jumped, and left me holding on for dear life.

都自己跳傘逃生，棄我自生自滅。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

CA: Did he tell you to jump, or he just said, "I'm out of here!" and ...

克：他有叫你也跳傘嗎？還是只是說：「我走嘍！」，然後 ...

RB: No, he told me jump, but once his weight had gone,