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  • Bryn Freedman: So you said that in the 20th century,

    譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: Wilde Luo

  • global power was in the hands of government.

    布林 · 弗里德曼: 你說過,在二十世紀,

  • At the beginning of this digital century,

    全球的權力掌握在政府的手中。

  • it really moved to corporations

    在這個數位世紀的初期,

  • and that in the future, it would move to individuals.

    權力實際上移向了企業,

  • And I've interviewed a lot of people,

    而在未來,權力將會移向個人。

  • and they say you're wrong,

    我訪談過很多人,

  • and they are betting on the companies.

    他們都說你錯了,

  • So why are you right,

    他們都把權力押在公司手上。

  • and why are individuals going to win out?

    所以,為什麼你是對的?

  • Fadi Chehadé: Because companies cater to individuals,

    為什麼個人將會勝出?

  • and we as the citizenry

    法迪 · 切哈德: 因為公司會迎合個人,

  • need to start understanding that we have a big role

    而我們身為公民,

  • in shaping how the world will be governed, moving forward.

    需要開始了解:要決定這個 世界會如何被管理、如何發展,

  • Yes, indeed, the tug of war right now is between governments,

    我們扮演著重要的角色。

  • who lost much of their power to companies

    是的,的確,目前的角力 發生在各國政府之間,

  • because the internet is not built around the nation-state system

    政府有大量的權力被公司奪走,

  • around which governments have power.

    是因為網際網路並不是以 民族國家為中心來建立的,

  • The internet is transnational.

    而政府的權力卻是。

  • It's not international, and it's not national,

    網路是跨國的。

  • and therefore the companies became very powerful.

    它不是國際的,也不是國家的,

  • They shape our economy.

    因此,公司變得非常強大。

  • They shape our society.

    它們塑造了我們的經濟。

  • Governments don't know what to do.

    它們塑造了我們的社會。

  • Right now, they're reacting.

    政府不知道該怎麼做。 現在,它們正作出反應。

  • And I fear that if we do not, as the citizenry --

    而我擔心,我們身為公民——

  • which are, in my opinion, the most important leg of that stool --

    依我的看法,

  • don't take our role,

    這是凳子最重要的一隻腳——

  • then you are right.

    卻不扮演我們的角色, 那麼,你就是對的。

  • The detractors, or the people telling you that businesses will prevail, are right.

    那些抨擊者,或者那些 告訴你企業會勝出的人,

  • It will happen.

    他們是對的,企業的確會勝出。

  • BF: So are you saying that individuals will force businesses

    布:所以,你的意思是, 個人會迫使企業,

  • or business will be forced to be responsive,

    也就是企業會被迫回應,

  • or is there a fear that they won't be?

    或者擔憂「事實並非會如此發展」?

  • FC: I think they will be.

    法:我認為企業會回應。

  • Look at two weeks ago,

    看看兩週前 有一間叫做 Skip 的小公司,

  • a small company called Skip winning over Uber and Lyft and everyone

    打敗了 Uber 和 Lyft 以及所有人,

  • to actually get the license for the San Francisco scooter business.

    取得了舊金山摩托車事業的執照。

  • And if you read why did Skip win,

    如果你細讀 Skip 為何會贏,

  • because Skip listened to the people of San Francisco,

    那是因為 Skip 傾聽舊金山市民的意見:

  • who were tired of scooters being thrown everywhere,

    他們厭倦了摩托車被到處亂丟。

  • and actually went to the city and said,

    實際上 Skip 跑到城市裡,並宣佈:

  • "We will deploy the service,

    「我們會將這服務部署出去,

  • but we will respond to the people's requirements

    但我們會回應人民的需求,

  • that we organize ourselves around a set of rules."

    我們會根據一系列規定 來管理好自身。

  • They self-governed their behavior, and they won the contract

    他們自我行為管理,

  • over some very powerful companies.

    擊敗了一些很龐大的公司, 贏得了合約。

  • BF: So speaking of guidelines and self-governance,

    布:既然談到準則和自我管理,

  • you've spent an entire lifetime creating guidelines and norms

    你花了一輩子的時間

  • for the internet.

    為網際網路制訂準則和標準。

  • Do you think those days are over?

    你認為那些日子已經過去了嗎? 誰會來領導?

  • Who is going to guide, who is going to control,

    誰會來控制? 誰會來制訂那些標準?

  • and who is going to create those norms?

    法:用來管理網際網路

  • FC: The rules that govern the technology layers of the internet

    技術層面的那些規定

  • are now well put in place,

    都已經很完善了,

  • and I was very busy for a few years setting those rules

    有幾年我非常忙碌, 一直在建立一些規定

  • around the part of the internet that makes the internet one network.

    讓網際網路能夠統一。

  • The domain-name system, the IP numbers,

    域名系統、IP 地址表白呀,

  • all of that is in place.

    這些通通都就緒了。

  • However, as we get now into the upper layers of the internet,

    然而,隨著我們現在進入了 網際網路更加抽象的層級,

  • the issues that affect me and you every day --

    每天會影響我們的那些議題——

  • privacy, security, etc. --

    隱私、安全性等——

  • the system to create norms for those unfortunately is not in place.

    不幸的是,為這些議題

  • So we do have an issue.

    建立標準的系統還沒有就緒。

  • We have a system of cooperation and governance

    所以,我們確實有問題。

  • that really needs to be created right now

    現在我們真的非常需要

  • so that companies, governments and the citizenry can agree

    創造一個合作和管理的系統,

  • how this new digital world is going to advance.

    讓公司、政府和公民

  • BF: So what gives a digital company any incentive?

    能對於這個數位新世界的 發展方向有所共識。

  • Let's say -- Facebook comes to mind --

    布:所以,是什麽 讓數位公司有了動機?

  • they would say they have their users' best interests at heart,

    比如說——我想到臉書——

  • but I think a lot of people would disagree with that.

    他們會說他們心中都想著 用戶的最佳利益,

  • FC: It's been very difficult to watch how tech companies have reacted

    但我想很多人都不會同意這個說法。

  • to the citizenry's response to their technologies.

    法:看著科技公司如何對於

  • And some of them, two or three years ago, basically dismissed it.

    「公民對其科技的反應」 而作出反應,是蠻困難的。

  • The word that I heard in many board rooms is, "We're just a technology platform.

    兩、三年前,有些科技公司 基本上還不理會這些呢。

  • It's not my issue if my technology platform

    我在許多會議室中聽到的說法是:

  • causes families to go kill their girls in Pakistan.

    「我們只是一個科技平台。

  • It's not my issue. It's their problem.

    那不關我的事,如果我的科技平台

  • I just have a technology platform."

    造成巴基斯坦的家庭殺害他們的女兒。

  • Now, I think we are now entering a stage

    那不關我的事。那是他們的問題。

  • where companies are starting to realize this is no longer sustainable,

    我只是擁有一個科技平台而已。」

  • and they're starting to see the pushback

    我想我們現在進入了一個階段,

  • that's coming from people, users, citizens,

    在這個階段,公司開始了解

  • but also governments that are starting to say,

    這樣做並不永續,

  • "This cannot be."

    他們開始看見負面的反應,

  • So I think there is a maturity that is starting to set,

    這些來自人們、用戶、公民,

  • especially in that Silicon Valley area,

    但也來自政府。

  • where people are beginning to say, "We have a role."

    他們開始說:「不能這樣。」

  • So when I speak to these leaders, I say,

    所以,我認為成熟期開始出現了,

  • "Look, you could be the CEO, a very successful CEO of a company,

    特別是在矽谷地區,

  • but you could also be a steward."

    在那裡,大家開始說: 「我們發揮著作用。」

  • And that's the key word.

    當我和這些領導者交談時,我說:

  • "You could be a steward of the power you have

    「瞧,你可以是一間公司中 非常成功的執行長,

  • to shape the lives and the economies of billions of people.

    但你也可以當個管家。」

  • Which one do you want to be?"

    那就是關鍵字。

  • And the answer is, it's not one or the other.

    「你能當個管家,用你擁有的力量,

  • This is what we are missing right now.

    來塑造數十億人的生活和經濟。

  • So when an adult like Brad Smith, the president of Microsoft,

    你想要當哪一種人?」

  • said a few months ago,

    答案是,這並不是二選一的。

  • "We need a new set of Geneva Conventions

    這正是我們現在所缺乏的。

  • to manage the security of the digital space,"

    當像微軟的總裁布拉德 · 史密斯

  • many of the senior leaders in Silicon Valley

    這樣的成人在幾個月前說:

  • actually spoke against his words.

    「我們需要一套新的日內瓦公約

  • "What do you mean, Geneva Convention?

    來管理數位空間的安全性。」

  • We don't need any Geneva Conventions. We self-regulate."

    矽谷的許多資深領導者

  • But that mood is changing,

    其實是跟他唱反調的。

  • and I'm starting to see many leaders say,

    「你說日內瓦公約是什麼意思?

  • "Help us out."

    我們不需要什麼日內瓦公約, 我們會做自我規範。」

  • But here lies the conundrum.

    但那種氣氛正在改變,

  • Who is going to help those leaders do the right thing?

    我開始看到許多領導者說:

  • BF: So who is going to help them?

    「幫我們擺脫困難。」

  • Because I'd love to interview you for an hour,

    但難題就在這裡。

  • but give me your biggest fear and your best hope

    誰會協助那些領導者做正確的事?

  • for how this is going to work out.

    布:所以,誰會協助他們?

  • FC: My biggest hope is that we will become each stewards

    雖然我很想訪問你一個小時,

  • of this new digital world.

    但請告訴我, 針對這個問題要如何解,

  • That's my biggest hope,

    你最大的恐懼 和最大的希望是什麼。

  • because I do think, often, we want to put the blame on others.

    法:我最大的希望是

  • "Oh, it's these CEOs. They're behaving this way."

    我們都會變成

  • "These governments are not doing enough."

    這個數位新世界的管家。

  • But how about us?

    那是我最大的希望, 因為,我確實認為,

  • How is each of us actually taking the responsibility to be a steward

    通常,我們想要怪罪他人。

  • of the digital space we live in?

    「喔,都怪這些執行長。 因為他們這樣做。」

  • And one of the things I've been pushing on university presidents

    「這些政府做得還不夠。」

  • is we need every engineering and science and computer science student

    但我們呢?

  • who is about to write the next line of code

    我們每個人是怎樣真正承擔起責任,

  • or design the next IoT device

    在我們所居住的數位 空間中行使管家的職責?

  • to actually have in them a sense of responsibility and stewardship

    我一直在催促大學校長 去做的事情之一,

  • towards what they're building.

    就是我們需要每一位工程、 自然科學和計算機科學的學生,

  • So I suggested we create a new oath,

    在他們將要寫下一行程式碼之前,

  • like the Hippocratic Oath,

    或設計出下一個物聯網裝置之前,

  • so that every student entering an engineering program

    就要對他們在打造的東西

  • takes a technocratic oath or a wisdom oath

    真正地懷有責任感和管家的精神。

  • or some oath of commitment to the rest of us.

    所以,我建議我們創造新的誓詞,

  • That's my best hope, that we all rise.

    就像希波克拉底誓詞 (醫生誓詞),

  • Because governments and businesses will fight over this power game,

    讓參與工程計畫的每一位學生

  • but where are we?

    都要先唸一段 技術專家誓詞或智慧誓詞,

  • And unless we play into that power table,

    或是某種我們對其他人 有所承諾的誓詞。

  • I think we'll end up in a bad place.

    那是我最大的希望: 我們通通都能站起來。

  • My biggest fear?

    因為政府和企業 會為了這場權力遊戲而戰,

  • My biggest fear, to be very tactical today,

    但我們在哪裡?

  • what is keeping me up at night

    除非我們也參加這場權力遊戲,

  • is the current war between the West, the liberal world,

    不然我們最後會淪落到很糟的處境。

  • and China,

    我最大的恐懼?

  • in the area of artificial intelligence.

    現在我最大的恐懼, 非常戰術性地來說,

  • There is a real war going on,

    讓我晚上難以入眠的,

  • and for those of us who have lived through the nuclear nonproliferation age

    是目前西方自由世界

  • and saw how people agreed

    和中國之間

  • to take some very dangerous things off the table,

    在人工智慧領域的戰爭。

  • well, the Carnegie Endowment just finished a study.

    有一場真實的戰爭正在發生。

  • They talked to every country that made nuclear weapons

    我們這些人,經歷過

  • and asked them,

    防止核武器擴散時代,

  • "Which digital 'weapon' would you take off the table

    看見過大家都同意

  • against somebody else's schools or hospitals?"

    將一些非常危險的東西收起來。

  • And the answer --

    嗯,卡內基基金會 剛完成一項研究。

  • from every nuclear power -- to this question was,

    他們和每一個製造 核武的國家談過,

  • nothing.

    問他們:

  • That's what I'm worried about ...

    「在對抗其他國家的學校 或醫院時,如果要你選擇,

  • The weaponization of the digital space,

    你會將哪一項數位『武器』收起來?」

  • and the race to get there.

    而這個問題的答案, 握有核武的強權的答案,就是

  • BF: Well, it sounds like you've got a lot of work to do,

    沒有。

  • and so do the rest of us.

    那就是我在擔心的……

  • Fadi, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

    數位空間被武器化, 以及為了這個目標所做的競爭。

  • FC: Thank you.

    布:聽起來你還有好多工作要做,

  • (Applause)

    我們其他人也一樣。

Bryn Freedman: So you said that in the 20th century,

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: Wilde Luo

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【TED】法迪 · 切哈德 與 布林 · 弗里德曼: 一般公民能做什麼來在網際網路上獲得權力? (What everyday citizens can do to claim power on the internet | Fadi Chehadé and Bryn Freedman)

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    林宜悉 發佈於 2018 年 11 月 20 日
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