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  • Well, the emotional world of little children

    倫敦佛洛伊德博物館

  • is not a peaceful world.

    幼兒的情感世界並非太平世界

  • It's a world in which the child

    其中,幼兒經歷強烈的慾望與焦慮

  • experiences intense desires,

    在那裡,愛的關係首次浮上檯面

  • intense anxieties.

    有愛的關係,就有問題

  • It's a time when, for the first time,

    精神分析是什麼? 第三部:伊底帕斯情結

  • love relationships come onto the scene.

    在伊底帕斯階段,約3到5歲

  • And with love relationships,

    你被要求做很多困難的事情

  • problems appear on the scene.

    得放棄很多東西

  • Around the Oedipal period,

    要聽話、不能堅持想要的東西 必須禮讓他人等等

  • around the ages of three to five,

    佛洛伊德日後談到「嬰兒陛下」

  • you're being asked to do such difficult things,

    也就是小孩視自己為全世界的中心的看法

  • to give up such a lot.

    對佛洛伊德而言,伊底帕斯情結所代表的

  • I mean, the idea of becoming obedient,

    是必須面對自己並非全能

  • of not taking things that you want,

    不能佔有父母的事實

  • of letting other people go first.

    他認為這對幼兒時期帶來巨大無比 激烈暴力的衝擊

  • He talks later of the baby as

    而且每個人都是如此

  • 'His Majesty the Baby',

    每個來到地球的新生命都得面對一個任務:

  • as a figure who's at the centre of everything.

    掌控伊底帕斯情結

  • And for Freud, the Oedipus complex is about

    1905年佛洛伊德《性學三論》

  • having to face the fact

    伊底帕斯情結確確實實是很複雜的 一點也不單純

  • that we're not omnipotent,

    以 被簡化、被誤解 伊底帕斯情結而言 伊底帕斯情結指的是

  • that we can't possess our parents,

    小孩愛雙親中 與自己性別相異的那個人 而憎恨雙親中 與自己性別相同的那位

  • and he thinks this has a tremendous

    並且將之視為競爭對手

  • powerful, violent force in infancy,

    精神分析早期有個既存的觀念

  • that's universal.

    男生愛媽媽,女生愛爸爸

  • The Oedipus complex is a genuine complex.

    迄今還是有些人認同這觀念

  • So it's not Oedipus simplex.

    然而佛洛伊德已經指出

  • In its simple and misunderstood form

    事情其實更為複雜

  • it is about that the child loves the parent

    佛洛伊德修正了簡化的看法

  • of the opposite sex

    認為無論小男孩或是小女孩 都會先愛媽媽

  • and hates the parent of the same sex

    因為母親 (或任何擔任母親角色的人) 是提供嬰兒一切所需的人

  • as a rival.

    我看不出引進「戀父情結」這個詞彙 所代表的進步與好處

  • There was the early idea in psychoanalysis

    因此不鼓勵這詞彙的使用

  • that the boy loves the mummy

    1920年佛洛伊德《一位女同性戀個案的心理成因》

  • and the girl loves the daddy

    無論是男是女,母親都是最原初的客體

  • and some people today still believe in that.

    1925年佛洛伊德 《兩性解剖學差異所造成的心理影響Some Psychical Consequences of the Anatomical Distinction between the Sexes》

  • But Freud had already recognised

    佛洛伊德毫不遲疑與保留地認為 這和”性”有關連

  • that things are more complex.

    但是,「幼年時想與父母發生性關係」

  • He revised that theory to say that

    並不是那麼直接明白的

  • both little girls and little boys love,

    因為這牽涉到「想要有性關係」 究竟是指要有什麼?

  • first of all, their mother

    我不認為佛洛伊德曾說過 兒童想與父母發生性關係

  • because she's the one who has provided

    在伊底帕斯階段,兒童想要的是

  • all the care for the child,

    以某種方式佔有母親

  • or whoever stands in for the mother.

    與母親融為一體

  • Now Freud had absolutely no reservation

    孩子大概模糊地知道 生殖器在這當中有一定的角色

  • calling this sexual.

    但他們並不全然地明白

  • But the idea of wanting to have

    成人所謂的經由生殖器官的性交 到底是什麼

  • sex with a parent at a very young age

    所以,舉例來說 一個23歲的人說

  • it's not really so straightforward

    「我想跟那個人發生性關係」

  • because there's the question of

    意思當然很明確

  • what wanting to have sex means.

    但對一個3歲小孩

  • I don't think Freud said children

    想從母親那裡得到滿足

  • want to have sex with their parents,

    而母親也一直是給他滿足的人

  • what children want is, at the Oedipal stage,

    這種對母體的渴望 代表著完全不同的意義

  • they want to in some way

    所以,兒童可能想用性器官摩擦母親

  • possess the mother.

    吸吮母親的某個部份

  • They want to fuse with her.

    跟母親做各種事情

  • They have some idea that the genitals

    之後再也不想承認 自己曾經想對母親做這些事

  • may play a part in this as well,

    到了10歲、12歲 兒童可能會覺得這類渴望非常的噁心

  • but they have no clear idea,

    有些兒童非常害怕傷到雙眼或者失去它們

  • and certainly not the idea that it involves

    諺語說道

  • what adults would consider to be genital sex.

    我們要珍惜某物

  • And so if, as a, I don't know, a 23 year old,

    如同眼中的蘋果 (註:眼中的蘋果 語出聖經申命記 珍貴的事物 掌上明珠)

  • you say 'I want to have sex with that person',

    1919年佛洛伊德《難以思議The Uncanny》

  • that might mean one thing to you.

    佛洛伊德認為,兒童本身希望被愛

  • But a three year old child

    不只是兒童愛誰而已

  • who wants to get satisfaction

    他也需要被愛

  • from its mother somehow, and its mother

    可是母親還有別的活兒要做

  • who has been giving it satisfaction

    她還對其他事情有興趣

  • all of its life,

    這是一場競爭、角力 有個對手

  • it means something totally different.

    因此伊底帕斯三角關係

  • So it might want to rub its genitals against her,

    講的是愛與嫉羨、愛與排除他者

  • it might want to suck part of her,

    以及交織其中的恨

  • it might want to do all sorts of

    其中包含了對母親強烈的愛

  • things with her

    對任何競爭對手的恨 包括手足、父親

  • that then it might never want never want to

    對同一個人又愛又恨 衝突從中而生

  • admit to having wanted again.

    還有 如果針對對手的敵意若被發現 他們會對自己如何的焦慮

  • By the time its ten or twelve

    兒童會自然而然地黏著母親不放

  • it might find that just ultimately disgusting.

    但是如果母親也黏著孩子不放

  • For Freud,

    不允許足夠的分離

  • the child itself wants to be loved.

    也許是因為 孩子是這位母親生命中唯一欣慰的對象

  • It's not just about the child loving,

    那麼,對這孩子來說 就可能會產生有待克服的問題

  • it's also about the child being loved.

    這也是伊底帕斯情結的一部分

  • But mother's got other fish to fry,

    母親可能會像排山倒海而來 父親可能會介入採取行動

  • she's interested in other things.

    兒童對父親的反應可能是「啊,討厭」

  • There's a competition, there's a rivalry of some sort.

    因為父親在設立規則

  • So the Oedipal triangle is about

    但同時兒童也可能覺得非常寬慰

  • love and jealousy,

    因為父親能為他這麼做

  • so it's about love and exclusion,

    父親的角色,在佛洛伊德的理論模型裡

  • and hatred as it weaves itself into that.

    代表著權威、法律

  • Its got the strong love for the mother.

    同時也擔任母親的愛的客體對象 後面這一點非常重要

  • Its got the hate for any rival: a sibling, a father.

    必須有某些事物,比我們的所為 更能夠捕捉母親的關注

  • Its got conflicts arising

    這可能是另一個女人、家庭友人、親戚

  • from the love and hate for the same person,

    有能力將母親與兒童分離

  • and the anxiety of

    或將兒童與母親分離的任何人

  • what they might do with him

    在這個階段

  • if they discover his hostile feelings.

    我們必須分別討論男孩與女孩的不同發展

  • The child will naturally cling to the mother.

    因為這是性別的差異

  • Now, when the mother also clings to the child

    第一次透過心理的表現而呈現出來

  • and doesn't allow enough separation,

    1905年佛洛伊德《性學三論》

  • maybe because the child is the only thing

    伊底帕斯情結 能化解的關鍵

  • that the mother enjoys in her life,

    是要有認同的發生

  • then that can become problematic for the child.

    佛洛伊德認為 人不是生而為男,或生而為女

  • And that would be

    他認為,我們趨近於男生或女生的位置

  • part of the Oedipus complex.

    或說是男人或女人的立場

  • And so a mother might be incredibly overwhelming

    這些過程 其實是在伊底帕斯情結裡完成的

  • and actually, you might, you know,

    根據古典精神分析 有一個父親或有一個母親的重點之一

  • the idea that your dad could step in and

    就在於提供範例,提供不同性別的模範

  • do something about that,

    你必須對「男人」與「女人」這些分類概念

  • you might go 'errrgh' to your dad

    找到自己的定位,然後賦予這些分類意義

  • because he's laying down a rule,

    某個程度來說 其實無法歸納出恆常、固定的意義

  • but you might also be incredibly relieved

    歸納出男性應該如何後 馬上會遇到一個不是這樣的男性

  • that he was able to do that for you.

    反之亦然

  • So the father, in the Freudian model,

    這些其實是很困難且強烈的危機時刻

  • is the person who represents authority,

    讓兒童難以應付招架

  • who represents the law,

    其結果也不見得總是穩定的情況

  • and who, in a sense, also functions,

    基本上,沒有所謂適當、完美或乾淨利落的方式 來處理伊底帕斯情結

  • and this is very crucial,

    總是有弄虛作假、模模糊糊的部分

  • as a love object for the mother.

    所以解決方式變成:「沒關係,繼續如此,不會崩潰的,大家都可以共存等等。」

  • It just needs to be something

    但往往都是 哇!真是一團亂

  • that captures mother's interest

    某個層面來說,精神分析探討的是

  • more than we do.

    一個人為何無法把自己建構成男性或女性

  • It could be another woman,

    我們在這些案例中所看到的是

  • it could be a family friend,

    每個男孩或女孩都無法順利、完美地通過這個情結

  • it could be a relative,

    這是每個人都必須處理的課題

  • anyone who has the function of separating

    但令人驚訝地 卻很少有人能夠以理想的方式來應對

  • the mother from the child

    1917年佛洛伊德《精神分析引論》

  • and the child from the mother.

    精神分析有一個概念

  • The crucial thing

    認為伊底帕斯情結 以及怎麼處理這個情結

  • about the resolution of the Oedipus complex

    會留下一生的印記,或一輩子糾纏我們

  • is the identifications that take place.

    這是非常重要的一件事

  • For Freud,

    你可以在成人身上看到伊底帕斯情結的運作

  • he didn't believe that you were just

    個案來找精神分析師時

  • 'born a boy' and 'born a girl'.

    除了直接討論症狀之外 還會說些什麼呢?

  • He thought that

    除了重複的惡夢、憂鬱、焦慮之外 他們還說些什麼呢?

  • how we move to the position

    他們會談職場的人際關係

  • of either being a boy or a girl,

    男女朋友以及伴侶的感情關係

  • or indeed a man or a woman,

    但是他們也會談到自己的父母、家庭

  • comes about at the time of the Oedipus Complex.

    我們經常看到

  • So one of the points of having

    佛洛伊德標舉、重視的伊底帕斯情結

  • a father and a mother,

    仍然持續在成人的生命裡運作

  • according to classical psychoanalysis,

    有人主張所謂的伊底帕斯情結

  • is that you have these exemplars,

    其實是有著規範的功能 將男與女區隔開來

  • these instances of gender.

    至於我們是否能在於每個個案中

  • You have to position yourself in relation

    都確實看到伊底帕斯情結 則是另一個問題

  • to this idea of 'man' or 'woman',

    我們得見的是,人們透過各種方式

  • then you have to try to ascribe the meaning to it

    無法達到教科書所描述的伊底帕斯情結

  • and, in a way, you can't really

    精神分析在某個程度上

  • ascribe a meaning to it that sticks.

    就是在探索這個失敗的歷史過程

  • Whatever you say a man is,

    是呀 人類的生活不就是如此嗎?

  • you'll come across a man who isn't that,

    你得嘗試克服家庭帶給你的恐懼!

  • and vice versa.

    (中文字幕由臺灣 吾境思塾 楊明敏 校閱)

  • And these are really difficult and intense

    Chinese subtitles are checked by Yang M.M. ,iAnalysis ,Taiwan

  • crisis moments for a young child to cope with

  • and the result is not necessarily

  • always a stable situation.

  • Basically, there is no proper, perfect,

  • neat resolution of the Oedipus complex.

  • It's always something fudged.

  • And so the resolution is kind of:

  • 'It's okay, you can function,

  • you're not going to melt down,

  • everybody can co-exist.'

  • But, it's always just... blergh!

  • It's a mess.

  • In a way, psychoanalysis is about how

  • someone hasn't been able to

  • constitute themselves as a man or woman.

  • What we witness in each case

  • is the failure of each boy and each girl

  • to move through, perfectly, that complex.

  • There is the idea in psychoanalysis

  • that the Oedipus complex,

  • and how we dealt with it,

  • either marks us for life or haunts us.

  • That it's very, very critical.

  • And you can see that at work in adults

  • because, what do people talk about

  • when they come and see a psychoanalyst,

  • apart from directly about their symptoms:

  • recurrent nightmares, depression, anxiety.

  • What do they talk about?

  • Well, they talk about relationships at work,

  • they talk about

  • the relationships they have

  • with boyfriends, girlfriends, partners,

  • but they also talk about their parents.

  • They talk about their family.

  • Quite often one sees that

  • what Freud characterised as

  • the Oedipus complex

  • continues to work through in adult life.

  • One could say that there's a normative

  • Oedipus complex,

  • which differs for boys and for girls.

  • Whether we actually see that complex

  • obtaining in each individual case

  • is another question.

  • What we see are the ways in which

  • people have failed to live up to

  • the kind of Oedipus complex

  • that we read about in textbooks.

  • And psychoanalysis is really about,

  • to a certain extent,

  • exploring the history of that failure.

  • Oh yeah, isn't that what human life is?

  • Just trying to get over the horror

  • of your family!

Well, the emotional world of little children

倫敦佛洛伊德博物館

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A2 初級 中文 英國腔 情結 佛洛伊德 母親 兒童 精神 分析

什麼是精神分析?第3部分:俄狄浦斯情結 (What is Psychoanalysis? Part 3: The Oedipus Complex)

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    Christina Yang 發佈於 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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