I was in Madrid one night in 2002

我要告訴各位一首歌的故事。

with my teacher and friend Joaquín Sabina,

2002 年的某個晚上， 我在馬德里，

when he said he had something to give me.

和我的老師兼朋友 瓦金沙賓納在一起，

He said,

他說他有東西要給我。

"Jorge, I have some lines that you need to put into a song.

他說：

Take these down, take these down."

「荷黑，我有一些句子， 你得把它們放到歌曲中，

I looked on the table but all I found was a circular coaster,

把這些寫下來，把這些寫下來。」

on which I wrote the lines my teacher dictated.

我看向桌面，只能 找到一個圓茶杯墊，

They were four lines that went like this:

於是我把我老師 口述的句子寫在上面。

"I am a Jewish Moor living among Christians

一共有四句，如下：

I don't know who my God is, nor who my brothers are."

「我是個猶太回教徒， 居住在基督徒當中，

Those lines really made an impression on me.

我不知道我的神是誰， 也不知道我的兄弟是誰。」

I said, "What beautiful lyrics, Joaquín. Did you write them?"

這些句子真的讓我印象深刻。

He said no, they were by another composer named Chicho Sánchez Ferlosio,

我說：「好美的歌詞， 瓦金，是你寫的嗎？」

who was less known than Joaquín, but also a great poet.

他說不是，是另一位作曲家 奇裘山切斯佛羅西歐所寫。

These lines came to me at a time

他的名氣不如瓦金， 但也是個偉大的詩人。

where I had been wanting to express something for a while,

我得到這些句子時，

but didn't quite know how.

我剛好一直想要表達某樣東西，

I was getting up to leave and go home to write,

但不知道該怎麼表達。

when Joaquín stopped me and said, "Hang on, hang on,"

我準備起身離開，回家去寫詞，

and presented me with this challenge:

這時瓦金阻止了我， 說：「等等，等等。」

"Write the stanzas for this song

他給了我這個挑戰：

in Décimas."

「用 Décimas （十行詩）

Now, at this point in my life,

來為這首歌寫這些詩句。」

I still wasn't completely sure what Décimas were,

在我人生的這個時點，

but I was too embarrassed to tell my teacher I didn't know.

我還不太確定 Décimas 是什麼，

So I put on my best "Yeah, I totally understand" face,

但我無法拉下臉來 告訴老師我不知道。

and went home to look up what Décimas were.

所以我擺出了「是， 我完全了解」的表情，

I learned that a Décima is a type of verse

然後回家去查 Décimas 是什麼。

that only exists in Spanish,

我學到，Décimas 是一種詩，

and that it has 10 lines.

只有西班牙語才有。

It's very, very complex --

這種詩共有十行。

perhaps the most complex style of stanza that we have in Spanish.

它非常非常複雜，

It also has a very concrete date of origin,

可能是西班牙文中最複雜的一種詩。

which is very rare for a style of stanza.

它也有非常明確的起源日，

The Décima was invented in Spain in 1591,

對於詩的種類而言，這點很難得。

by a guy named Vicente Espinel, a musician and poet from Málaga.

Décimas 是 1591 年 在西班牙發明的，

And listen to this coincidence: he was the same guy

發明者叫文森提伊斯皮奈爾， 他是馬拉加的音樂家兼詩人。

who added the sixth string

聽聽這個巧合：他同時也是

to what would later be called the Spanish guitar.

將六條弦加到

This string right here --

後來我們稱為西班牙吉他上的人。

it's called the "bordona."

就是這裡的弦──

From Spain, the Décima, with its 10 lines,

它叫做「bordona」 （註：即六弦的意思）

crosses over to America, just like the Spanish guitar,

十行的 Décima 從西班牙

but in contrast to the Décima,

傳到了美洲，就像西班牙吉他那樣，

the Spanish guitar continues to live today

但和 Décima 很不同的是，

on both sides of the Atlantic.

西班牙吉他

But the Décima, in Spain, its birthplace,

至今仍然存在於大西洋的兩岸。

disappeared; it died out.

但 Décima 在它的出生地西班牙

It died out about 200 years ago,

卻消失了，絕跡了。

and yet in Latin America, from Mexico to Chile,

它大約是在兩百年前絕跡的。

all our countries maintain some form of the Décima

但在南美，從墨西哥到智利，

in our popular traditions.

我們所有的國家，都在大眾傳統中

In each place, they've given it a different name,

保有某種形式的 Décima。

and set it to different music.

在每個地方，它都有不同的名稱，

It has a lot of different names -- more than 20 in total on the continent.

被用在不同的音樂上。

In Mexico, for example, it's called the "Son Jarocho,"

它有許多不同的名稱，在這塊 大陸上就有總共超過 20 種。

"Canto de mejorana" in Panama;

比如，在墨西哥，它叫做 「Son Jarocho」夏洛楚頌樂；

"Galerón" in Venezuela;

在巴拿馬，叫做 「Canto de mejorana」；

"Payada" in Uruguay and Argentina;

在委內瑞拉，叫做「Galerón」；

"Repentismo" in Cuba.

在烏拉圭及阿根廷， 叫做「Payada」；

In Peru, they call it the Peruvian Décima,

在古巴，叫做「Repentismo」；

because the Décima becomes so integrated into our traditions,

在秘魯，它被稱為 「秘魯 Décima」，

that if someone asks, people from each place are completely convinced

因為 Décima 與 我們的傳統深深結合，

that the Décima was invented in their country.

如果被問起，每個地方的人都深信

(Laughter)

Décima 是他們的國家發明的。

It's also got a really surprising feature,

（笑聲）

which is that despite the fact that it developed independently

它也有個非常讓人驚奇的特色，

in each of the different countries,

就是

it maintains even today, 400 years after its creation,

儘管各自獨立發展於不同的國家中，

exactly the same rhyme, syllable and line structure --

是的，

the same structure Vicente Espinel gave it during the Spanish Baroque period.

即使創造於 400 年前，

Here's the structure --

它現今仍然維持著

I'll give you the basic idea and then later you can look online

完全相同的節奏音節以及詩句結構，

and learn more about it.

和西班牙巴洛克時期時

The Décima is ten lines long; each line has eight syllables.

文森提伊斯皮奈爾賦予它的一樣。

The first line rhymes with the fourth and the fifth;

它的結構是，

the second line, with the third;

我會給各位基本概念，

the sixth line, with the seventh and the tenth;

之後你們可以上網找資料，

and the eighth line rhymes with the ninth.

進一步了解它。

It's a bit complicated, to be honest.

Décima 的長度是十行，

And me -- imagine me, trying to write in Décimas.

每行有八個音節。

But it's not as complicated as it seems.

第一、第四及第五行押韻；

Plus, it's amazing that it's survived with the same structure

第二行和第三行押韻；

for more than four centuries.

第六、第七及第十行押韻；

It's not that complicated, because it has an impressive musicality to it,

第八行和第九行押韻。

a type of musicality

坦白說，這有點複雜。

that's very hard to describe technically.

而我──想像一下 我試著寫 Décimas。

I prefer that you listen to it.

但它沒有看起來的那麼複雜。

So I'm going to recite a Décima,

此外，很驚人的是， 它帶著同樣的結構，

one of the Décimas that I wrote for this song.

存活了超過四個世紀。

I'm going to ask that you concentrate just on the musicality of the rhymes.

它沒有那麼複雜，是因為它有 讓人印象深刻的音樂性，

For those of you with headphones on --

這種音樂性

I see that some of you are listening to the translation --

在技術面是非常難描述的。

please take them off for a minute.

我比較希望你們能用聽的。

(English) Take your headphones off, it you have them.

所以我要誦讀一首 Décima，

(English) Forget about the meaning of the words for a few seconds,

它是我為這首歌 所寫的 Décima 之一。

(English) and then you'll put them back.

我想請各位專注在押韻的音樂性上。

(English) Forget about the structure.

各位戴著耳機的人──

(Spanish) Forget about the structure.

我看見在座有些人在聽翻譯──

(English) And just ... it's all about the choreography of sound of the Décima.

請把耳機拿下來一下子。

(Spanish) A choreography of sound.

（英文）有戴耳機的人， 請把耳機取下。

(Sings in Spanish) "There is not one death that does not cause me pain,

（英文）暫時把字詞的意義忘記，

there are no winners,

（英文）等一下再戴上耳機。

here's nothing but suffering and another life blown away.

（英文）先忘掉結構。

War is a terrible school no matter what the disguise,

（西班牙文）先忘掉結構。

forgive me for not enlisting under any flag,

（英文）重點是 Décima 中的聲音編排。

any daydream is worth more than a sad piece of cloth."

（西班牙文）聲音的編排。

That's a Décima.

（以西班牙文唱） 「沒有一個死亡不會造成我的痛苦，

(English) You can put your headphones back on.

沒有贏家，

(Applause)

這裡什麼都沒有，只有苦難 及另一個生命逝去。

(English) Thank you.

戰爭是很差勁的學校， 不論它的偽裝是什麼，

(Applause)

原諒我沒有加入 任何一面旗幟的軍隊，

I also applaud Vicente Espinel, because here it is 426 years later,

任何白日夢都比一片 悲傷的布要來得有價值。」

and the Décima lives on everywhere

這就是 Décima。

in its original state.

（英文）你們可以把耳機戴上了。

I wrote three like that one; you just heard the second.

（掌聲）

I wrote the first one having only recently learned how,

（英文）謝謝。

and it has some errors in terms of meter,

（掌聲）

so it's not presentable in its current state.

我也得向文森提伊斯皮奈爾致意，

But the one I sang was good, more or less.

因為 426 年後 Décima 無所不在，

So: What was it about?

且保有原始形態。

What was the meaning behind those lines?

我寫了三首類似的， 你們剛聽到的是第二首。

I had just returned from doing a concert in Israel,

我最近才學會如何寫， 所以寫的第一首

and I was very emotional over a problem that hits really close to home,

有一些錯誤，韻律上的錯誤，

which is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

所以它目前的狀況不太適合呈現。

I'll explain: my dad's family is Jewish,

但我剛唱的那首大體上還不錯。

and my mom's family are non-practicing Christians.

所以，它是關於什麼的？

I was raised in a home where the two traditions lived together

那些句子背後的意思是什麼？

more or less in harmony.

我才剛在以色列做了一場音樂會，

It wasn't unusual to see my Jewish grandpa dressed as Santa Claus, for example,

對於一個發生在離家鄉 非常近的問題，我十分情緒化，

or to see my non-Jewish grandpa at the synagogue wearing his kippah,

就是以色列與巴基斯坦的衝突。

at family celebrations, wearing the same expression that I probably had

我會解釋：我父親的家庭是猶太人，

when Sabina told me --

我母親的家庭是掛名基督徒。 （註：名義上為基督徒但沒去教堂）

(Laughter)

我成長的家庭中有兩種傳統共存，

that he had some Décima lines for me.

或多或少算是和平共存。

For someone raised in that kind of environment,

比如，可以看到 我的猶太爺爺扮成聖誕老人，

it's especially painful to see the difficulty the opposing parties have

或是非猶太的外公 戴著猶太帽去猶太會堂，

in putting themselves in the other side's shoes even for a moment.

參加家庭慶祝活動， 表情應該就像當沙賓納告訴我

So that's what I wrote about.

他有 Décima 詩句

I already had the lyrics,

（笑聲）

I had the form -- the Décima -- and the content.

要給我那時我的表情。

I needed to write the music.

對於在這種環境長大的人而言，

I'll give you some context.

看到對立的兩方很艱難地試著

I had only recently moved from Uruguay, where I'm from, to Spain.

站在另一方的立場，是很痛苦的。

And I was feeling very raw with nostalgia,

所以那就是我寫的。

like many of you here, who are away from home.

我已經有歌詞了，

And I wanted my song to be very, very Uruguayan,

我有形式了，即 Décima， 也有內容了，

the most Uruguayan type of song there is -- the milonga.

我需要的是寫音樂。

So now, I had been studying the Décima, and after finding out

讓我告訴大家來龍去脈。

that everyone tried to claim the Décima as their own,

我最近才從家鄉烏拉圭搬到西班牙。

that it was invented in their country,

我感受到鄉愁之苦，

it made me wonder:

跟許多這裡遠離家鄉的人一樣。

What does it mean when we say the milonga is Uruguayan?

我希望我的歌曲 能夠非常有烏拉圭味，

The milonga has a rhythmic pattern that we musicians call 3-3-2.

世上最有烏拉圭味的 歌曲類型：米隆加。

(Counts out the beats) One two three, one two three, one two.

所以，我一直在研究 Décima，

And it has a characteristic emphasis.

發現每個人都聲稱 Décima 是他們自己的，

(Sings)

是在他們的國家發明的。

But this characteristic rhythm pattern

那讓我忍不住想：

comes from Africa.

我們說米隆加很有 烏拉圭味，是什麼意思？

In the ninth century you could find it in the brothels of Persia,

我們音樂家稱米隆加的 節奏模式為 3-3-2。

and in the thirteenth,

（數拍子）一二三、一二三、一二。

in Spain, from where, five centuries later,

它有個獨有的重音。

it would cross over to America with the African slaves.

（唱）

Meanwhile, in the Balkans, it encounters the Roma scale --

但這個獨有的節拍模式

(Sings)

來自非洲。

which in part, gives birth to klezmer music,

在第九世紀，可以在 波斯的妓院找到它；

which Ukrainian Jewish immigrants bring to Brooklyn, New York.

在第十三世紀，

They sing it in their banquet halls.

可在西班牙找到， 又過了五個世紀之後，

(Sings "Hava Nagila")

非洲奴隸將它從西班牙傳到美洲。

And their neighbor, an Argentine kid of Italian origin

這期間，在巴爾幹半島， 它遇到了羅馬音階，

named Astor Piazzolla,

（唱）

hears it,

羅馬音階某種程度上孕育了 猶太克列茲莫音樂，

assimilates it

克列茲莫音樂被烏克蘭猶太移民 帶到紐約布魯克林。

and transforms the tango of the second half of the 20th century

他們會在他們的宴會廳中演唱。

with his ...

（唱「Hava Nagila」 《讓我們歡樂》）

(Counts out the beats) One two three, one two three, one two.

他們的鄰居，一個 義大利血統的阿根廷孩子，

(Sings "Adios Nonino")

叫做阿斯托爾·皮亞佐拉，

He also played it on his bandoneon, a 19th-century German instrument

聽見了這音樂，

created for churches that couldn't afford to buy organs,

吸收了它，

and that ends up, incredibly, in Río de la Plata,

將二十世紀後半的探戈做轉化，

forming the very essence of the tango and the milonga,

加上了他的

in the very same way another instrument just as important as the bandoneon did:

（數拍子）一二三、一二三、一二。

the Spanish guitar.

（唱「Adios Nonino」 《永別了，親愛的父親》）

(Applause)

他也用他的班多鈕手風琴來演奏， 那是種十九世紀的德國樂器，

To which, by the way, Vicente Espinel, in the 16th century,

為了買不起管風琴的教堂發明的。

added a sixth string.

神奇的是，它最後傳到拉布拉他河，

It's amazing how all these things are coming full circle.

形成了探戈和米隆加的精華，

What have I learned in these 15 years since the song was born

其方式就如同另一個與班多鈕 手風琴一樣重要的樂器：

from going all over the world with four lines written on a coaster

西班牙吉他。

from a bar in Madrid?

（掌聲）

That Décimas,

順便一提，在十六世紀， 文森提伊斯皮奈爾

the milonga,

為它加上了六條弦。

songs, people --

這一切轉了一個圈， 又回到原點，很不可思議。

the closer you get to them,

從十五年前這首歌誕生之後，

the more complex their identity becomes,

我帶著馬德里酒吧杯墊上 寫的四行句子行遍世界，

and the more nuances and details appear.

學到了什麼？

I learned that identity is infinitely dense,

我學到：Décimas、

like an infinite series of real numbers,

米隆加、

and that even if you get very close

歌曲、人；

and zoom in,

你越接近他們，

it never ends.

他們的身份就變得越複雜，

Before I sing you a song and say goodbye,

更多的細微差別和細節會浮現。

allow me to tell you one last story.

我學到：身份是無盡密集的，

Not long ago, we were in Mexico after a concert.

就像無盡的實數序列，

And since the concert promoters know me,

即使你靠得非常近，

they knew I was a Décima freak and that everywhere I go I ask about it,

並且放大看，

insisting on hearing Décima artists.

它也永遠沒盡頭。

So they organized a son jarocho show for me at their house.

在我為各位唱一首歌並說再會之前，

If you recall, the son jarocho is one of the styles of music

容我再說最後一個故事。

that uses Décimas in its verses.

不久前，我們在墨西哥， 一場音樂會剛結束。

When these amazing musicians finished playing

因為音樂會的籌辦人認識我，

what is for me, something amazing, which is the son jarocho,

他們知道我是個 Décima 怪胎， 且我去任何地方都會問相關的事，

they finished playing and were ...

堅持一定要聽到 Décima 藝術家表演，

I went up to greet them, really excited,

所以他們為我在他們家中 安排了一個夏洛楚頌樂節目。

getting ready to thank them for their gift of music,

如果你們記得，夏洛楚頌樂 是在詩句中用到 Décimas 的

and this young kid says to me --

音樂類型之一。

and he says it with the best of intentions -- he says,

當這些出色音樂家結束了 這場對我來說

"We're very proud, sir, to be keeping alive the purest origins

很不可思議的 夏洛楚頌樂表演之後，

of our Mexican identity."

他們結束表演，

And to tell you the truth, I didn't really know what to say.

我上前去問候他們，非常興奮，

(Laughter)

準備要感謝他們 有這麼棒的音樂天賦，

I stood there looking at him. I gave him a hug and left, but ...

有個年輕孩子對我說，

(Laughter)

是帶著最大的善意說的，他說：

But he was right, too, though. Right?

「先生，我們非常驕傲，能夠讓 我們墨西哥身份最純正的源頭

In reality, the Décima is its origin, but at the same time,

繼續活下去。」

just like in the milonga and in the Décima,

老實說，我真的不知道該說什麼。

are the roots of many more cultures from all over the place, like he said.

（笑聲）

Later, when I got back to the hotel, I thought about it for a while.

我站在那看著他，給他一個 擁抱，然後離開，但……

And I thought:

（笑聲）

things only look pure

不過，他也是對的，是吧？

if you look at them from far away.

在現實中，Décima 是它的源頭，但同時，

It's very important to know about our roots,

就像在米隆加和 在 Décima 中一樣，