Even as TED speakers go, you're something of an overachiever.

史帝芬妮布莎莉（以下簡稱「史」） ：雅米娜總統，謝謝你加入我們。

Ameenah Gurib-Fakim: (Laughs)

就算以 TED 的講者來說， 你也算是個高成就者。

SB: You have a PhD in organic chemistry,

雅米娜古瑞柏法金 （以下簡稱「雅」）：（笑聲）

you were vice chancellor of the University of Mauritius,

史：你擁有有機化學的博士學位，

a successful entrepreneur,

你是模里西斯大學的副校長，

you've won numerous awards for your work in science

一名成功的企業家，

and you're the first Muslim female head of state in Africa.

你的科學研究得過多個獎項，

(Applause)

且你是非洲國家中 第一位女性穆斯林領袖。

And of course, you're no stranger to the TEDGlobal stage;

（掌聲）

you gave a talk in 2014.

當然你對 TEDGlobal 舞台並不陌生；

Did you have any political ambitions at that time?

2014 年你來演講過。

How did you go from academic to president?

那時你有任何政治野心嗎？

AGF: OK, thanks, Stephanie.

你是怎麼從學者變成總統的？

First of all, I'd like to thank TED

雅：好，謝謝，史帝芬妮。

for having given me the opportunity to be here today.

首先，我要謝謝 TED，

And I would also like to thank the government of Tanzania

給我機會讓我今天能在這裡。

and the president for the welcome.

我也想謝謝坦尚尼亞的政府

And also, I'd like to thank the contribution of our consul,

以及總統給我的歡迎。

Mr. Rizvi, who's here,

我也要謝謝我們的領事 雷茲維先生的貢獻，

has been very supportive for all our stay here.

他也在現場，

Now, to answer your question,

他很支持我們在此停留。

did I have any ambitions in politics?

對於你剛才的問題，

The straight answer is no.

我之前有任何對政治的野心嗎？

I did not choose the world of politics;

直接的答案是，沒有。

the world of politics chose me.

我並沒有選擇政治世界；

So here I am.

政治世界選擇了我。

(Applause)

所以，我就在這裡了。

SB: So, was there ever anything in your journey

（掌聲）

that ever made you think

史：那麼，在你的旅程中，

that one day you would become president of your country?

有沒有什麼會讓你想到

Did you ever imagine that?

有一天你會成為你國家的總統？

AGF: Absolutely not.

你可曾想像過？

I think the journey started immediately after TED, actually.

雅：完全沒有。

When I went back, this journalist called me and said,

我想，這段旅程其實是在 TED 之後就立即開始了。

"You know, your name has been cited for the president of the republic,"

我回去之後，有個記者 打電話給我，並說：

I said, "Ma'am, you must be mistaken,

「你知道嗎，在談到共和國總統時， 你的名字被提及了。」

because I have no ambition whatsoever."

我說：「女士，你一定搞錯了，

She said, "No, it's serious.

因為我一點野心也沒有。」

Can you come and tell me this in the form of a declaration?

她說：「不，我是認真的。

So, OK, you'll come?"

你能不能來一趟， 並用聲明的方式告訴我此事？

So, of course, as good journalists go,

所以，好，你會來吧？」

the next day I see my TED picture

所以，當然，就好記者而言，

and, with my name, Ameenah Gurib-Fakim,

隔天，我看到我的 TED 照片，

"For president?"

加上我的名字，雅米娜古瑞柏法金，

A very small interrogation mark --

「競選總統？」

and people don't see the interrogation mark,

那個問號非常小，

they just see my name and they see my picture.

而人們沒有看到那個問號，

And that was a sounding board.

他們只看到我的名字、我的照片。

And again, as you have just said,

以及這是一個宣傳招數。

it was a very interesting scenario

同樣的，如你剛說的，

because it was a scenario where they wanted to have somebody

那是個非常有趣的局面，

who was credible,

因為在這個局面中，他們想要有個

had this political neutrality

可信的人，

and at the same time, was for a minority

有政治中立性，

because Islam is a minority religion in Mauritius,

同時，又是為了弱勢，

because in Mauritius, we stratify people's origins

因為伊斯蘭在模里西斯是弱勢宗教，

by virtue of their religious belief.

因為在模里西斯， 我們是用人們的宗教信仰

And -- I was a woman.

來將他們的出身做分層。

So this made it all very interesting.

而且我是女性。

So there we go, and this whole campaign started,

所以，這讓局面非常有趣。

and then people said, "Why not?"

所以，就這樣， 整個競選活動就開始了，

Now, this is very important to note, Stephanie,

人們說：「為什麼不？」

because normally, the president is elected after the election.

史帝芬妮，這點是很重要的，

And here we had a scenario

因為，一般來說， 總統是在選舉之後才選出。

where the name of the president was flagged before the election process,

而這裡，我們的局面是，

during the campaign.

在選舉過程之前，在競選 活動中，就有總統的名字

So when people voted, they knew that at some point,

被搖旗吶喊。

they would have this Muslim woman president.

所以當人民在投票時，他們知道，

SB: Does it feel significant to you as a woman

在某個時點，他們會 有個穆斯林女總統。

to be the first female president of your country?

史：身為女性，你覺得成為

AGF: It's important for many reasons.

你的國家的第一位 女總統是很重要的嗎？

I think, obviously, you just mentioned the terrible statistics

雅：很重要，理由有好幾個。

of two female presidents in the whole of Africa.

很明顯，你剛剛提到 很糟糕的統計數字，

But more importantly,

整個非洲只有兩位女性總統。

I think it's important also coming from the background I come from --

但，更重要的，

by background I mean not ethnic, but more academic and entrepreneurial --

我認為來自什麼背景也很重要。

to be there,

我說的背景並不是指種族背景， 而是指學術和企業背景。

to be that role model for that little girl growing in my village

在那裡，

to say, "Yes, it's possible."

做為我村落裡成長中女孩的典範，

It's possible.

說：「是，是有可能的。」

(Applause)

是有可能的。

It's also important, Stephanie,

（掌聲）

while I talk about diversity --

史帝芬妮，我談到的

diversity in the widest sense of the word.

多樣性也很重要。

We've seen that whenever there was diversity,

用這個字最廣義的定義。

whenever there was openness,

我們看到，有多樣性存在的時候，

whenever there was dialogue,

有開放性存在的時候，

this was the time when societies have been most productive.

有對話存在的時候，

When we talk about the Arab Golden Age,

就是社會最有生產力的時候。

we cannot not think of Ibn Sina,

當我們談到伊斯蘭黃金時代，

al-Haytham,

我們不能不想到伊本西那、

Averroes,

海什木、

Maimonides.

伊本魯世德、

This was a time when cultures, religions --

邁蒙尼德。

they were talking to each other.

在這個時代，文化、區域

They were at peace with each other.

在彼此交談，

And this was a time when they were highly productive.

和平共存。

So I would say: bring down these walls.

在這個時代，它們的生產力非常高。

SB: Absolutely, absolutely.

所以我會說：推倒這些牆。

(Applause)

史：絕對是，絕對是。

AGF: Virtual or otherwise.

（掌聲）

SB: Let's also talk about another conflict area

雅：不論實質或虛擬的牆。

which you straddle quite interestingly.

史：咱們也來談談另一個衝突領域，

As a woman of faith and also a scientist,

你也以很有意思的方式跨立的領域。

you know, faith and science seem to be at loggerheads.

身為有信仰的女人以及科學家，

It wasn't always so,

你知道的，信仰和科學 似乎是在相爭的。

but I'm interested to get your thoughts on how you reconcile both

不見得總是如此，

and how they coexist for you personally.

但我想了解你的想法， 你如何調解兩者、

AGF: They're not mutually exclusive.

對你個人而言兩者如何共存？

I mean, if you're a scientist,

雅：它們並非相斥的。

you tend to really look at the perfection of the human body,

我的意思是，如果你是科學家，

the way it functions.

你傾向會去看人類身體的完美，

If you look at nature as a whole.

看它怎麼運作。

I'm still amazed at the perfection

如果你去看整個大自然。

with which the entire ecosystem functions together.

我還是會對那完美感到驚訝，

However, to the purists, to those who are of faith,

整個生態系統一起運作的那種完美。

they will tell you, "Yes, there has been evolution."

然而，對純粹主義者， 對那些有信仰的人而言，

Even the Pope has agreed that evolution exists.

他們會告訴你： 「是的，有發生過演化。」

But there's always the question: What came first?

即使教皇也同意演化是存在的。

What came before this?

但總是會有這個問題：什麼先發生？

When we talk about all the various strata of evolution,

在這之前是什麼？

we'll always be asking the question,

當我們談到演化的所有各層時，

there must be something before.

總會問這個問題，

So I'm of the opinion that yes,

之前一定還有什麼。

there is this great spiritual force which is guiding the process,

我的意見是，是的，

and things like this don't happen by chance.

的確有偉大的靈性力量 在引導整個過程，

Now, whether you call it religiosity,

像這樣的事物不會偶然發生。

whether you call this great spirit by any name --

不論你是否稱之為篤信宗教，

Brahma, Allah, the Holy Trinity --

不論你用任何名稱 來稱呼這個偉大的靈性──

you name it --

梵天、阿拉、三位一體，

but I still think that these two are not mutually exclusive.

任何你想得到的──

They can still coexist with each other.

我仍然認為，這兩者是不相斥的。

SB: So let's move to one of your passions -- science.

它們仍然能彼此共存。

You've made no secret of that.

史：咱們接著來談你熱衷的「科學」。

And you've always been passionate about science.

你完全不保密，

I read that when you were a very young girl,

你一直都對科學很有熱忱。

you went to a career guidance counselor

我讀到，當你還是個小女孩時，

and told them you wanted to become a chemist,

你去找一個職涯指導顧問，

and they said, "No, it's for boys.

告訴他們你想要當化學家，

Boys do science."

他們說：「不行，那是男生做的。

Did that make you even more determined to study science

男生才做科學。」

and to succeed in that field?

那是否讓你更堅決要研讀科學，

How did you respond to that?

並在那個領域中成功？

AGF: Well, to begin with,

你對那件事的反應是什麼？

I must say, before I came to that career guidance officer,

雅：嗯，首先，

I had great teachers who motivated.

我必須說，我去找 那位職涯指導員之前，

And this is something I would like to draw attention to again,

我有過很棒的老師， 他們一直激勵著我。

to our education system.

我想要把注意力再次拉到這裡，

We have to do away with this rote learning.

我們的教育體制。

We have to ensure that we drive this curiosity in the child,

我們得要停止死記硬背的學習。

and they need to be curious.

我們得要確保我們能 驅動孩童的好奇心，

And if we want to move along the line for them to become great scientists,

他們必須要有好奇心。

they need to become more and more curious in everything they do.

如果我們想要在這個過程中 讓他們能變成偉大的科學家，

So every time -- exactly -- I went to see the careers guidance,

他們必須要對他們 所做的一切都更好奇。

he looked at me and said, "What do you want to do?"

所以每一次我去找職涯指導員時，

I said, "I want to study chemistry."

他會看著我然後說： 「你想要做什麼？」

"Well, you shouldn't study chemistry because this is for boys.

我說：「我想讀化學。」

And the next thing, when you come back, there'll be no job for you."

「嗯，你不該讀化學， 因為那是男生讀的。

So I went back home,

接下來，當你回來時， 就沒有給你做的工作了。」

and I had a great cheerleader at home who happens to be my father.

所以我返回家，

He said, "What do you want to do?" and asked, "What did he say?"

我家裡有個很棒的 支持者，就是我老爸。

I said, "This is what he said ..." He said, "What are you going to do?"

他對我說：「你想要做什麼？」 並問：「他說什麼？」

I said, "I'm going to do chemistry."

我說：「這就是他說的…」 他說：「你打算怎麼做？」

So there I was.

我說：「我要做化學。」

And one thing I will say: one must always follow your heart.

所以我就去了。

And my heart was always in chemistry.

我要說一件事： 你必須要跟著你的心走。

I did what I was passionate about,

我的心一直在化學。

and I thought at some point that I had developed this thinking

我做了我熱愛的事，

that if you're passionate about what you do,

在某個時點，我發展出了這個想法：

you will not have to work a single day in your life,

如果你熱愛你所做的事，

until I realized it was Confucius who said that.

你人生當中的每一天都不需要工作，

(Laughter)

後來我才知道這是孔子說的。

SB: So do you feel a responsibility, as someone in your position,

（笑聲）

to encourage young girls, especially on this continent,

史：坐在這個職位上， 你是否感到有責任

to study STEM subjects?

要去鼓勵年輕女孩， 特別是在這塊大陸上，

Is that something that you actively work --

鼓勵她們研讀科學、技術、 工程、數學這類的科目？

AGF: You know, over the past two days, Stephanie,

你是否會主動去努力做像這樣的事？

we've been hearing a lot of conversation

雅：在過去兩天，史帝芬妮，

about the sustainable development goals.

我們聽到了很多關於

We've seen that, for example,

永續發展目標的談話。

Africa must be food secure,

比如，我們了解到

Africa must be energy secure,

非洲需要有糧食保障。

Africa must be water secure.

非洲需要有能源保障。

If we want to get to that level of development --

非洲需要有水保障。

Agenda 2030 is not very far away --

如果我們想要達到那種程度的發展，

if you want to have success,

2030 議程並不是那麼遙遠，

we need to have an educated youth in Africa.

如果你想要成功，

And again, to be very cliché:

在非洲我們必須有受教育的年輕人。

you cannot achieve, you cannot win a football match,

同樣的，這是老調了：

if you're going to leave 52 percent of the team outside.

你無法達到成功，你無法贏一場足球賽，

It's not possible.

如果你打算把 52% 的隊員留在場外

(Applause)

是不可能贏的。

SB: Yes.

（掌聲）

AGF: So we need highly educated,

史：是的。

we need female intuition,

雅：所以我們需要高度受教育的，

and we need to get them there.

我們需要女性直覺，

And this is where a great deal of effort has to be done

我們需要做到這些。

to actually motivate them from a very young age,

在這裡需要花很多的功夫，

to tell that girl that she can do anything.

才能在孩童很小的時候 便去激勵他們，

And if the message comes from her father,

告訴那個女孩，她可以做到任何事。

if the message comes from her brother,

如果這個訊息是來自她的父親，

it's even much more powerful.

如果這個訊息是來自她的哥哥，

We need to tell her that anything is possible

它會更強大更有力。

and she can do it.

我們需要告訴她，什麼都有可能，

We need to build her self-confidence from a very early age,

且她辦得到。

but more importantly,

我們需要在她很小的時候 就建立她的自信，

we also need to actually look at the books,

更重要的是

because there are too many stereotypes.

我們也要仔細觀察書本裡的東西，

Last year, I was very shocked when I went to a debate on Women's Day.

因為書中存在太多刻板的成見。

They had a survey,

去年，我去一場關於婦女節 的辯論時感到十分震驚。

and they were asking these girls how many women inventors we have,

他們有項調查，

how many women scientists do we have.

他們去詢問女孩，我們 有多少女性發明家、

And you'd be shocked that hardly anyone knew

有多少女性科學家。

that Ada Lovelace was there behind computer science,

你會覺得很震驚，幾乎沒有人知道

that Marie Curie still remains iconic with two Nobel prizes.

愛達·勒芙蕾絲 是電腦科學領域的先驅，

So there's a lot of homework to do to actually make --

居禮夫人是贏得 兩項諾貝爾獎的指標人物。

to remove all these gender biases at a very young age;

還有很多功課要做，才能真的讓──

instill that confidence in that girl;

才能在非常小的年紀 就將這些性別偏見除去；

to tell her that she can do as well if not better than her brother.

讓那個小女孩能夠有信心；

SB: Yes.

告訴她，她可以做得 和她哥哥一樣好，甚至更好。

(Applause)

史：是的。

Thank you.

（掌聲）

So, let's move on to an area that I know you've been very active in,

謝謝。

which is the issue of biodiversity.

咱們再接著談下一個領域， 我知道你在這個領域一直很活躍，

You've been quite clear that this is an area that Africa must embrace.

也就是關於生物多樣性的議題。

We have an abundance of rich herbal traditions and plants

你非常清楚知道， 非洲必須要擁抱這個領域。

that could be developed into a big pharmaceutical industry.

我們有很豐富的草藥傳統和植物，

Can you tell us a little bit of how you've been using your expertise

可以發展成很大的藥品業。

to harness growth in this area?

你能否和我們談談， 你過去如何在這個領域中

AGF: Thank you.

使用你的專長來幫助成長？

Yesterday, I was listening to one of the talks;

雅：謝謝。

it was the talk about the need for Africa to turn into a knowledge economy.

昨天，我在聽其中一場演說；

Africa has got very rich traditions.

那場演說是關於非洲需要 轉變成為一個知識經濟體。

Sub-Saharan Africa, southern Africa,

非洲有非常豐富的傳統。

has got over 5,000 medicinal plant species,

撒哈拉以南非洲，非洲南部，

not harnessed.

有超過五千種的醫療用植物品種

And, in fact, at the TED talk I gave in 2014,

都還沒被利用。

I came out with one sentence:

事實上，在 2014 年 我來 TED 做的演說中，