Don't answer that out loud.

你有多少薪水？

But put a number in your head.

不必大聲回答。

Now: How much do you think the person sitting next to you gets paid?

但在腦中想一下。

Again, don't answer out loud.

現在，你認為坐在你旁邊的這個人 有多少薪水？

(Laughter)

同樣地，不必大聲講出來。

At work, how much do you think

(笑聲)

the person sitting in the cubicle or the desk next to you gets paid?

在你的工作中，你認為多少薪水，

Do you know?

是坐在隔壁裡的人 或者你隔壁桌的人應該要得到的？

Should you know?

你知道嗎？

Notice, it's a little uncomfortable for me to even ask you those questions.

你應該知道嗎？

But admit it -- you kind of want to know.

注意，問你這些問題甚至都 讓我有點不舒服。

Most of us are uncomfortable with the idea of broadcasting our salary.

但不得不承認你想知道。

We're not supposed to tell our neighbors,

我們大多數人對說出我們的薪水 這個想法感到不舒服。

and we're definitely not supposed to tell our office neighbors.

我們不應該告訴鄰居，

The assumed reason is that if everybody knew what everybody got paid,

我們也絕對不應該 告訴我們的同事。

then all hell would break loose.

假設的原因是如果大家 互相知道誰得了多少薪水，

There'd be arguments, there'd be fights,

那麼就會天下大亂。

there might even be a few people who quit.

会有爭論与戰鬥，

But what if secrecy is actually the reason for all that strife?

甚至可能有幾個人辭職。

And what would happen if we removed that secrecy?

但如果實際上保密是 所有的爭鬥的原因會如何？

What if openness actually increased the sense of fairness and collaboration

如果我們去除那個 保密的潛規則又會發生什麼？

inside a company?

如果實際上在一個公司裡， 開放可以讓人覺得公平和協作

What would happen if we had total pay transparency?

又會如何？

For the past several years,

如果我們將薪資透明化 會發生什麼？

I've been studying the corporate and entrepreneurial leaders

過去幾年，

who question the conventional wisdom about how to run a company.

我研究了公司和創業領袖

And the question of pay keeps coming up.

關於如何運作一個公司的共同看法。

And the answers keep surprising.

薪水的問題不斷出現，

It turns out that pay transparency --

但是他們的回答一直很讓人驚奇。

sharing salaries openly across a company --

事實證明，公開工資，

makes for a better workplace for both the employee

跨公司分享工資資料，

and for the organization.

能為每位員工還有組織

When people don't know how their pay compares to their peers',

製造一個更好的工作環境。

they're more likely to feel underpaid

當人們不知道相比於同齡人 他們的薪水情況如何，

and maybe even discriminated against.

他們更有可能 覺得自己的薪水太少，

Do you want to work at a place that tolerates the idea

甚至可能感到受到歧視。

that you feel underpaid or discriminated against?

你想在一個容忍這個想法的地方工作嗎？

But keeping salaries secret does exactly that,

你覺得太少 或歧視？

and it's a practice as old as it is common,

但保持薪水秘密就是這樣，

despite the fact that in the United States,

這是一種很普通的做法，

the law protects an employee's right to discuss their pay.

儘管事實在美國，

In one famous example from decades ago,

法律保障一位員工討論薪水的權益。

the management of Vanity Fair magazine

在幾十年前的一個著名例子中，

actually circulated a memo entitled:

Vanity Fair雜誌的管理者，

"Forbidding Discussion Among Employees of Salary Received."

實際上分發了一份備忘錄，題為：

"Forbidding" discussion among employees of salary received.

“禁忌的討論”

Now that memo didn't sit well with everybody.

其中禁止討論員工的薪資。

New York literary figures Dorothy Parker,

這條規則不是所有人都接受得了的。

Robert Benchley and Robert Sherwood,

紐約媒體指出， Dorothy Parker。

all writers in the Algonquin Round Table,

Robert Benchley， Robert Sherwood，

decided to stand up for transparency

還有在Algonquin Round Table的作家，

and showed up for work the next day

決定堅持薪資透明。

with their salary written on signs hanging from their neck.

並在第二天現身工作时

(Laughter)

将他們的薪水寫在 掛在他們脖子的工資牌上。

Imagine showing up for work

(笑聲)

with your salary just written across your chest for all to see.

想像現身工作时

But why would a company even want to discourage salary discussions?

你的薪水寫在牌子上， 讓所有人都看到。

Why do some people go along with it, while others revolt against it?

但是為什麼公司會想要 以阻止工資討論？

It turns out that in addition to the assumed reasons,

為什麼有些人喜歡它， 而其他人反對它？

pay secrecy is actually a way to save a lot of money.

事實證明一种假設的原因，

You see, keeping salaries secret

是因為工資保密其實是一種 節省很多錢的方式。

leads to what economists call "information asymmetry."

你看，保持薪資秘密，

This is a situation where, in a negotiation,

導致經濟學家所說的 “信息不對稱”。

one party has loads more information than the other.

在這情況談判的雙方

And in hiring or promotion or annual raise discussions,

一方比一方有更多資訊。

an employer can use that secrecy to save a lot of money.

在招聘、升職、加薪的討論中，

Imagine how much better you could negotiate for a raise

雇主可以使用這種保密方式 節省很多錢。

if you knew everybody's salary.

想像一下如果你知道每個人的薪資，

Economists warn that information asymmetry

你会要到多少加薪。

can cause markets to go awry.

經濟學家警告說信息不對稱

Someone leaves a pay stub on the copier,

可能會導致市場出差錯。

and suddenly everybody is shouting at each other.

有人在印表機上不小心遺留一張工資表，

In fact, they even warn

然後大家突然互相喊叫。

that information asymmetry can lead to a total market failure.

事實上，他們互相警告：

And I think we're almost there.

信息不對稱 可能導致整個市場失靈。

Here's why:

我認為我們正處在這個邊緣。

first, most employees have no idea how their pay compares to their peers'.

這就是為甚麼：

In a 2015 survey of 70,000 employees,

第一，大多數的員工沒有 比較他們的薪資的想法。

two-thirds of everyone who is paid at the market rate

在2015年對70,000名員工的調查中，

said that they felt they were underpaid.

三分之二的人按市場利率付費的員工

And of everybody who felt that they were underpaid,

表示他們覺得自己工資不高。

60 percent said that they intended to quit,

對於所有感覺到 自己沒有得到足夠薪水的人，

regardless of where they were -- underpaid, overpaid

60％的打算辭職，

or right at the market rate.

不管他們的實際工資 - 是少付，是多付

If you were part of this survey, what would you say?

或是隨著市場利率變動。

Are you underpaid?

如果你是這調查的一部分 ，你會說甚麼？

Well, wait -- how do you even know,

你會感到不舒服嗎？

because you're not allowed to talk about it?

等一下-你如何知道？

Next, information asymmetry, pay secrecy,

因為你不被允許談論這話題？

makes it easier to ignore the discrimination

其次，信息不對稱，工資保密，

that's already present in the market today.

使其更容易忽略或歧視

In a 2011 report from the Institute for Women's Policy Research,

已經存在於現在的市場中。

the gender wage gap between men and women

2011年，一项研究所的 婦女政策的報告指出，

was 23 percent.

男人和女人之間的工資差距

This is where that 77 cents on the dollar comes from.

有23℅。

But in the Federal Government,

這就是一美元與77美分的出處。

where salaries are pinned to certain levels

但是在聯邦政府，

and everybody knows what those levels are,

固定薪水一定是處於水平值，

the gender wage gap shrinks to 11 percent --

然後大家都知道這些水平值。

and this is before controlling for any of the factors

性別工資差距则收縮至11％。

that economists argue over whether or not to control for.

這沒有控制其他變數，

If we really want to close the gender wage gap,

而經濟學家爭論是否應當控制。

maybe we should start by opening up the payroll.

如果我們真的想減少 性別工資差距，

If this is what total market failure looks like,

或許我們應該從公佈工資開始。

then openness remains the only way to ensure fairness.

如果市場失靈，

Now, I realize that letting people know what you make

那公開薪資会是確保公平的唯一方法。

might feel uncomfortable,

現在，我意識到讓人們 知道你做什麼

but isn't it less uncomfortable

可能讓你感到不自在，

than always wondering if you're being discriminated against,

但不會超過

or if your wife or your daughter or your sister is being paid unfairly?

總是想知道 你是否受到歧視，

Openness remains the best way to ensure fairness,

或你的妻子或女兒或姐妹 是否被克扣薪水的不自在。

and pay transparency does that.

公開是確保公平的最佳方法，

That's why entrepreneurial leaders and corporate leaders

薪資透明也是其中一種。

have been experimenting with sharing salaries for years.

這就是為什么商界領袖和企業領導

Like Dane Atkinson.

多年来一直在嘗試公开工資，

Dane is a serial entrepreneur who started many companies

像Dane Atkinson一樣。

in a pay secrecy condition

Dane是一個開創很多公司的企業家，

and even used that condition to pay two equally qualified people

他在薪酬保密狀態下发工資，

dramatically different salaries,

甚至對兩個同等資格的人

depending on how well they could negotiate.

开出顯著不同的薪水，

And Dane saw the strife that happened as a result of this.

取决於他們多會談判。

So when he started his newest company, SumAll,

Dane看到了結果導致的衝突

he committed to salary transparency from the beginning.

所以當他成立SumAll公司，

And the results have been amazing.

他一開始就把薪資透明化，

And in study after study,

效果比預期的好。

when people know how they're being paid

在大量研究中，

and how that pay compares to their peers',

當人們知道他的薪水

they're more likely to work hard to improve their performance,

和同事相比處於什麼水平，

more likely to be engaged, and they're less likely to quit.

他們會更加努力來提升業績，

That's why Dane's not alone.

更多參與，更少辭職。

From technology start-ups like Buffer,

這就是為甚麼模仿Dane的人越來越多

to the tens of thousands of employees at Whole Foods,

從類似 Buffer 的初創科技公司，

where not only is your salary available for everyone to see,

到有數萬員工的Whole Foods。

but the performance data for the store and for your department

不但大家的薪資都透明化，

is available on the company intranet

且每個分店、每個部門的業績數據，

for all to see.

可在公司網頁上查得，

Now, pay transparency takes a lot of forms.

供所有人查看。

It's not one size fits all.

實際上，薪資透明有很多種方法，

Some post their salaries for all to see.

並不是一成不變的。

Some only keep it inside the company.

有的公司把薪資向所有人公開，

Some post the formula for calculating pay,

有些只在公司內部公開。

and others post the pay levels

一些公开職位薪水的計算公式，

and affix everybody to that level.

另一些公開薪資分級

So you don't have to make signs

並告知每個人所處的等級。

for all of your employees to wear around the office.

所以你不需做薪資牌，

And you don't have to be the only one wearing a sign

以便員工在辦公室穿著。

that you made at home.

你也不必是 唯一一個穿著標誌的——

But we can all take greater steps towards pay transparency.

那是你在家裡做的。

For those of you that have the authority

但我們都可以 更大步地走向薪酬透明。

to move forward towards transparency:

對於那些有權利

it's time to move forward.

推動薪資透明化的人：

And for those of you that don't have that authority:

是時候向前邁進了。

it's time to stand up for your right to.

對於沒有那個權力的你們：

So how much do you get paid?

現在是時候為你的權益站出來。

And how does that compare to the people you work with?

所以你得到多少薪資？

You should know.

跟你的同事比你的薪資如何？

And so should they.

你應該知道，

Thank you.

他們也應該。

(Applause)

謝謝你