Okay, this morning I'm speaking

好 今天我要講有關

on the question of corruption.

貪汙的問題。

And corruption is defined

貪汙指的是

as the abuse of a position of trust

濫用自己被信任的地位

for the benefit of yourself -- or, in the case of our context,

來圖利自己 -- 或圖利我們今天要談的 --

your friends, your family or your financiers.

自己的朋友、家人，或你的資助者的行為。

Okay? Friends, family and financiers.

OK嗎? 圖利朋友、家人、還有資助者。

But we need to understand what we understand about corruption,

但首先我們得了解，我們對於貪汙到底知道多少，

and we need to understand that

再來我們必須認知到

we have been miseducated about it, and we have to admit that.

在這個問題上，我們一直 接受錯誤資訊，我們得承認這件事。

We have to have the courage to admit that

我們得先鼓起勇氣承認這件事，

to start changing how we deal with it.

才能開始改變我們的應對之道。

The first thing is that the big myth, number one,

首先，迷思一是

is that in fact it's not really a crime.

「貪汙不算真的犯罪」

When we get together with friends and family

當我們和親朋好友聚在一起

and we discuss crime in our country,

討論我國犯罪的時候，

crime in Belmont or crime in Diego or crime in Marabella,

在 Belmont 的犯罪、在 Diego 的犯罪、 在 Marabella 的犯罪...

nobody's speaking about corruption.

不會有人談到貪汙。

That's the honest truth.

這完全是真的。

When the Commissioner of Police comes on TV to talk about crime,

當警政官員在電視上討論犯罪，

he isn't speaking about corruption.

他也不會談到貪汙。

And we know for sure when the Minister of National Security

我們也肯定知道，當國安部長談論犯罪時，

is speaking about crime, he's not talking about corruption either.

他不會談到貪汙。

The point I'm making is that it is a crime.

我的論點是，貪汙就是犯罪。

It is an economic crime, because we're involving the looting of taxpayers' money.

這是一種經濟犯罪，因為貪汙奪取納稅人的金錢。

Public and private corruption is a reality.

政府部門與私營企業的貪汙是存在的事實。

As somebody who comes from the private sector,

身為私營企業的一員，

I can tell you there's a massive amount of corruption

我能夠告訴你不單政府部門， 私營企業也有大量的貪污行為，

in the private sector that has nothing to do with government.

我能夠告訴你不單政府部門， 私營企業也有大量的貪污行為，

The same bribes and backhanders and things that take place under the table,

相同的賄賂行為和回扣， 以及檯面下的利益交換，

it all takes place in the private sector.

在私營企業也會發生。

Today, I'm focusing on public sector corruption,

今天，我把焦點放在政府部門的貪污，

which the private sector also participates in.

當然私營企業也可能涉足其中。

The second important myth to understand --

第二個要破除的迷思是--

because we have to destroy these myths,

因為我們必須破除這些迷思， 去除、破壞它們並恥笑它們--

dismantle them and destroy them and ridicule them --

因為我們必須破除這些迷思， 去除、破壞它們並恥笑它們--

the second important myth to understand

第二個要破除的迷思是， 「貪污只是一個小問題」--

is the one that says

第二個要破除的迷思是， 「貪污只是一個小問題」--

that in fact corruption is only a small problem --

第二個要破除的迷思是， 「貪污只是一個小問題」--

if it is a problem, it's only a small problem,

「就算貪汙是個問題，也只是一個小問題，

that in fact it's only a little 10 or 15 percent,

它只有少少的 10% 到 15% 的影響。」

it's been going on forever, it probably will continue forever,

「貪汙一直都存在著，搞不好會永遠存在，

and there's no point passing any laws, because there's little we can do about it.

立法也沒有意義，因為幾乎不會有用。」

And I want to demonstrate that that, too,

我想用一個例子說明，以上這種想法

is a dangerous myth, very dangerous.

是非常非常危險的迷思。

It's a piece of public mischief.

這個案例是一樁政府顢頇的鬧劇。

And I want to speak a little bit,

我想稍微描述一下背景，讓我們回到30年前。

take us back about 30 years.

我想稍微描述一下背景，讓我們回到30年前。

We're coming out today from Trinidad and Tobago,

在千里達托巴哥 (國名 Trinidad and Tobago)，

a resource-rich, small Caribbean country,

這是一個面積不大但資源豐富的加勒比海國家。

and in the early 1970s we had a massive increase in the country's wealth,

在1970年代，由於世界油價的上升， 國家的財富大大的增加了。

and that increase was caused by the increase in world oil prices.

在1970年代，由於世界油價的上升， 國家的財富大大的增加了。

We call them petrodollars. The treasury was bursting with money.

這些財富俗稱油元 (petrodollar，販賣石油賺進的外匯)。 國庫都要被錢塞爆了。

And it's ironic, because

順帶一提，我們現在正在中央銀行大樓裡。

we're standing today in the Central Bank.

順帶一提，我們現在正在中央銀行大樓裡。

You see, history's rich in irony.

-- 你瞧，歷史充斥著諷刺 --

We're standing today in the Central Bank,

我們現在身處的中央銀行，

and the Central Bank is responsible for a lot of the things I'm going to be speaking about.

要為我接下來要描述的鬧劇負最大的責任。

Okay? We're talking about irresponsibility in public office.

可以嗎？我們在探討關於公職人員的不負責。

We're speaking about the fact that across the terrace,

我們在說在陽台對面的隔壁 那座塔就是財政部的事實，

the next tower is the Ministry of Finance,

我們在說在陽台對面的隔壁 那座塔就是財政部的事實，

and there's a lot of connection with us today,

而我們今天有很多關聯性， 所以我們要用你們的節奏來演說。好嗎？

so we're speaking within your temple today. Okay?

而我們今天有很多關聯性， 所以我們要用你們的節奏來演說。好嗎？

(Applause)

(掌聲)

The first thing I want to talk about is that

我想要說的第一件事情是， 當這些錢在大約40年前流進我們的國家時，

when all of this money flowed into our country about 40 years ago,

我想要說的第一件事情是， 當這些錢在大約40年前流進我們的國家時，

we embarked, the government of the day embarked

我們和當時的政府從事了一系列的 政府和政府間的協商，使得國家能快速發展。

on a series of government-to-government arrangements

我們和當時的政府從事了一系列的 政府和政府間的協商，使得國家能快速發展。

to have rapidly develop the country.

我們和當時的政府從事了一系列的 政府和政府間的協商，使得國家能快速發展。

And some of the largest projects in the country

政府和一些世界上最先進國家的 政府間的協商建構了國家裡一些最大型的計畫，

were being constructed through government-to-government arrangements

政府和一些世界上最先進國家的 政府間的協商建構了國家裡一些最大型的計畫，

with some of the leading countries in the world,

政府和一些世界上最先進國家的 政府間的協商建構了國家裡一些最大型的計畫，

the United States and Britain and France and so on and so on.

美國、英國，和法國等等的國家......

As I said, even this building we're standing in -- that's one of the ironies --

如同我所說，即使是我們身處的這棟建築 --它就是其中一個諷刺--

this building was part of that series of complexes,

它是一系列複雜關係的其中一員，

what they called the Twin Towers.

他們把這複雜關係稱為雙子星大樓。

It became so outrageous, the whole situation,

它變得令人無法忍受， 整個情況讓我們得任命調查委員會，

that in fact a commission of inquiry was appointed,

它變得令人無法忍受， 整個情況讓我們得任命調查委員會，

and it reported in 1982, 30 years ago it reported --

而委員會在1982年提出了報告， 30年前它提出了報告--

the Ballah Report -- 30 years ago,

Ballah報告--30年前，政府之間的協商立刻就停止了。

and immediately the government-to-government arrangements were stopped.

Ballah報告--30年前，政府之間的協商立刻就停止了。

The then-Prime Minister went to Parliament

然後總理在國會發表了一個預算的演說， 他說了一些我永遠無法忘記的事。

to give a budget speech, and he said some things that I'll never forget.

然後總理在國會發表了一個預算的演說， 他說了一些我永遠無法忘記的事。

They went right in here. I was a young man at the time.

它們令我印象深刻。我當時是個年輕人。 它深深刻在我心裡。

It went right into my heart.

它們令我印象深刻。我當時是個年輕人。 它深深刻在我心裡。

And he said that, in fact — Let me see if this thing works.

他說：事實上--我看看這能不能用。

Are we getting a, yeah?—

有了嗎？有了--

That's what he told us.

這就是他告訴我們的。

He told us that, in fact,

他告訴我們，事實上，我們所花的石油美金--納稅人的錢--每三塊就有兩塊被浪費掉或是被偷。

two out of every three dollars of our petrodollars

他告訴我們，事實上，我們所花的石油美金--納稅人的錢--每三塊就有兩塊被浪費掉或是被偷。

that we spent, the taxpayers' money,

他告訴我們，事實上，我們所花的石油美金--納稅人的錢--每三塊就有兩塊被浪費掉或是被偷。

was wasted or stolen.

他告訴我們，事實上，我們所花的油元--納稅人的錢--每三塊就有兩塊被浪費掉或是被偷。

So the 10 or 15 percent is pure mischief.

所以這10%或15%就是一場純粹的鬧劇。

As we say, it's a nancy-story. Forget it.

如同我們說的，這是一個nancy-story。算了。

That's for little children. We are big people,

那是說給小孩聽的。我們是大人了，我們正試著面對我們的社會發生的事。

and we're trying to deal with what's happening in our society.

那是說給小孩聽的。我們是大人了，我們正試著面對我們的社會發生的事。

Okay? This is the size of the problem.

好嗎？這個問題就是這麼大。

Okay? Two thirds of the money stolen or wasted.

好嗎？三分之二的錢不是被浪費掉就是被偷。

That was 30 years ago. 1982 was Ballah.

那是30年前了。1982是Ballah年。

So what has changed?

那麼有什麼改變了呢？

I don't like to bring up embarrassing secrets

我並不想在國際聽眾面前提起丟臉的秘密， 但是我必須這麼做。

to an international audience, but I have to.

我並不想在國際聽眾面前提起丟臉的秘密， 但是我必須這麼做。

Four months ago, we suffered a constitutional outrage in this country.

四個月之前，我們遭受了憲法暴行的打擊。

We call it the Section 34 fiasco, the Section 34 fiasco,

我們稱之為第34款的慘敗，第34款的慘敗，這是一條可疑的法律，我要很肯定地說，這是一條可疑的法律，

a suspicious piece of law, and I'm going to say it like it is,

我們稱之為第34款的慘敗，第34款的慘敗，這是一條可疑的法律，我要很肯定地說，這是一條可疑的法律，

a suspicious piece of law

我們稱之為第34款的慘敗，第34款的慘敗，這是一條可疑的法律，我要很肯定地說，這是一條可疑的法律，

was passed at a suspicious time

它在可疑的時間通過，就為了放走一些嫌疑犯。(笑聲)

to free some suspects. (Laughter)

它在可疑的時間通過，就為了放走一些嫌疑犯。(笑聲)

And it was called, those people are called

這些人被稱為Piarco機場被告。

the Piarco Airport accused.

這些人被稱為Piarco機場被告。

I'm going to have my own lexicon speaking here today.

我今天要用我自己的話來說。

They are the Piarco Airport accused.

他們叫做Piarco機場被告。

It was a constitutional outrage of the first order,

那是第一級的憲法暴行， 而我把它稱為使國會墮落的陰謀。

and I have labeled it the Plot to Pervert Parliament.

那是第一級的憲法暴行， 而我把它稱為使國會墮落的陰謀。

Our highest institution in our country was perverted.

我們國家的最高機關墮落了。

We are dealing with perverts here

出於經濟和財務上的天性， 我們正在面對這些墮落的事。

of an economic and financial nature.

出於經濟和財務上的天性， 我們正在面對這些墮落的事。

Do you get how serious this problem is?

你們知道這個問題有多麼嚴重嗎？

There was massive protest. A lot of us in this room

這是大規模的抗爭。在這房間裡的 很多人用不同的方式參與了這個抗爭。

took part in the protest in different forms.

這是大規模的抗爭。在這房間裡的 很多人用不同的方式參與了這個抗爭。

Most importantly, the American embassy complained,

最重要的是，美國大使抱怨了， 因此國會很快地重新召開了。

so Parliament was swiftly reconvened,

最重要的是，美國大使抱怨了， 因此國會很快地重新召開了。

and the law was reversed, it was repealed.

這條法律被推翻了，被廢除了。

That's the word lawyers use. It was repealed.

律師們是這樣說的。它被廢除了。

But the point is

但重點是，國會在整個事件中被矇騙了， 因為事情的真相是，

that Parliament was outwitted in the whole course of events,

但重點是，國會在整個事件中被矇騙了， 因為事情的真相是，

because what really happened is that,

但重點是，國會在整個事件中被矇騙了， 因為事情的真相是，

because of the suspicious passage of that law,

這條以可疑方式通過的法律 在我們慶祝50周年獨立紀念的周末開始生效，

the law was actually passed into effect

這條以可疑方式通過的法律 在我們慶祝50周年獨立紀念的周末開始生效，

on the weekend we celebrated our 50th anniversary of independence,

這條以可疑方式通過的法律 在我們慶祝50周年獨立紀念的周末開始生效，

our jubilee of independence.

這條以可疑方式通過的法律 在我們慶祝50周年獨立紀念的周末開始生效，

So that is the kind of outrage of the thing.

這就是憲法暴行的樣子。

It was kind of a nasty way to get maturation, but we got it,

那是一種變成熟的骯髒方法，但是我們確實變成熟了，因為我們都了解，

because we all understood it,

那是一種變成熟的骯髒方法，但是我們確實變成熟了，因為我們都了解，

and for the first time that I could remember,

而那也是我記憶中第一次對這個貪污有大規模的抗爭。

there were mass protests against this corruption.

而那也是我記憶中第一次對這個貪污有大規模的抗爭。

And that gave me a lot of hope. Okay?

而那給了我很大的希望。好嗎？

Those of us who are, sometimes you feel like

有時候你會覺得你在單打獨鬥。

you're a little bit on your own doing some of this work.

有時候你會覺得你在單打獨鬥。

That passage of the law and the repeal of the law

這條法律的通過和廢除壯大了Piarco機場被告。

fortified the case of the Piarco Airport accused.

這條法律的通過和廢除壯大了Piarco機場被告。

So it was one of those really superior double bluff kind of things that took place.

所以這不過是所有虛張聲勢的事情中的其中之一。

But what were they accused of?

但是他們被指控了什麼？

What was it that they were accused of?

他們究竟被指控了什麼？

I'm being a bit mysterious for those of you out there. What were they accused of?

對你們之中有些人來說我在故弄玄虛。 他們被指控了什麼？

We were trying to build, or reconstruct largely,

我們試著要建造，或是重建一座已經過時的機場。

an airport that had grown outdated.

我們試著要建造，或是重建一座已經過時的機場。

The entire project cost about 1.6 billion dollars,

這整個計畫花費大約16億千里達和托巴哥幣。

Trinidad and Tobago dollars,

這整個計畫花費大約16億千里達和托巴哥幣。

and in fact, we had a lot of bid-rigging

而事實上，上演了很多操縱投標、可疑行為、貪污行為。

and suspicious activity, corrupt activity took place.

而事實上，上演了很多操縱投標、可疑行為、貪污行為。

And to get an idea of what it consisted of,

要了解細節並建立和這第二個 沒什麼大不了的迷思之間的關聯，

and to put it in context in relationship to this whole

要了解細節並建立和這第二個 沒什麼大不了的迷思之間的關聯，

second myth about it being no big thing,

要了解細節並建立和這第二個 沒什麼大不了的迷思之間的關聯，

we can look at this second slide here.

我們可以看看第二張投影片。

And what we have here -- I am not saying so,

這裡說到--這不是我說的， 這是一個檢察官寫的。是他說的。

this is the Director of Public Prosecutions in a written statement. He said so.

這裡說到--這不是我說的， 這是一個檢察官寫的。是他說的。

And he's telling us that for the $1.6 billion cost of the project,

他告訴了我們在這16億當中， 有10億可以追朔到海外銀行帳戶。

one billion dollars has been traced

他告訴了我們在這16億當中， 有10億可以追朔到海外銀行帳戶。

to offshore bank accounts.

他告訴了我們在這16億當中， 有10億可以追朔到海外銀行帳戶。

One billion dollars of our taxpayers' money

納稅人的錢有10億在海外的銀行帳戶。

has been located in offshore bank accounts.

納稅人的錢有10億在海外的銀行帳戶。

Being the kind of suspicious person I am,

身為一個多疑的人，我受到打擊了，我要暫停一下。

I am outraged at that, and I'm going to pause here,

身為一個多疑的人，我受到打擊了，我要暫停一下。

I'm going to pause now and again and bring in different things.

我要暫停一下，講一些不同的東西。

I'm going to pause here and bring in something I saw

我要講一些我去年11月在華爾街所看到的東西。我當時在祖柯蒂公園(Zuccotti Park，佔領華爾街行動的大本營)。

in November last year at Wall Street. I was at Zuccotti Park.

我要講一些我去年11月在華爾街所看到的東西。我當時在祖柯蒂公園(Zuccotti Park，佔領華爾街行動的大本營)。

It was autumn. It was cool. It was damp. It was getting dark.

當時是秋天，很涼爽、潮濕，天快暗了。

And I was walking around with the protesters

我和抗議人士走在一起，看著拿著"一個華爾街"、"佔領華爾街"牌子的人走來走去。

looking at the One Wall Street, Occupy Wall Street movement walking around.

我和抗議人士走在一起，看著拿著"一個華爾街"、"佔領華爾街"牌子的人走來走去。

And there was a lady with a sign, a very simple sign,

有一位女士拿著一塊很簡單的牌子，他是一位憔悴的金髮女士，

a kind of battered-looking blonde lady,

有一位女士拿著一塊很簡單的牌子，他是一位憔悴的金髮女士，

and the sign was made out of Bristol board, as we say in these parts,

那塊牌子是用所謂的優質紙板和麥克筆做的。

and it was made with a marker.

那塊牌子是用所謂的優質紙板和麥克筆做的。

And what it said on that sign hit me right in the center.

那塊牌子上面寫的字深深觸動了我。

It said, "If you're not outraged, you haven't been paying attention."

它寫著：如果你不覺得被暴行侵犯了， 那你根本不關心這件事。

If you're not outraged by all of this, you haven't been paying attention.

它寫著：如果你不覺得被暴行侵犯了， 那你根本不關心這件事。

So listen up, because we're getting into even deeper waters.

所以仔細聽，因為我們都深陷其中。

My brain started thinking.

我開始思考。

Well, what if --

呃，如果--

because I'm suspicious like that. I read a lot of spy novels and stuff.

我就是這麼一個多疑的人， 我讀過很多間諜小說之類的東西。

What if -- (Laughter)

如果--(笑聲)

But to make it in these wrongs,

但是要如此，你就得讀很多間諜小說 然後照著上面寫的做，對吧？

you have to read a lot of spy novels

但是要如此，你就得讀很多間諜小說 然後照著上面寫的做，對吧？

and follow some of that stuff, right? (Laughter)

但是要如此，你就得讀很多間諜小說 然後照著上面寫的做，對吧？

But what if this wasn't the first time?

如果這不是第一次呢？

What if this is just the first time

如果這些事情是第一次被抓到呢？

that the so-and-sos had been caught?

如果這些事情是第一次被抓到呢？

What if it had happened before? How would I find out?

如果之前就發生過呢？我要怎麼知道？

Now, the previous two examples I gave

好，我給的兩個例子是關於建設部分的貪污，好嗎？

were to do with construction sector corruption, okay?

好，我給的兩個例子是關於建設部分的貪污，好嗎？

And I have the privilege at this time

我現在有領導聯合諮詢評議會(Joint Consultative Council)的權利，它是非營利的。

to lead the Joint Consultative Council, which is a not-for-profit.

我現在有領導聯合諮詢評議會(Joint Consultative Council)的權利，它是非營利的。

We're at jcc.org.tt, and we have the -- we are the leaders

我們的網站是jcc.org.tt，而且我們這些領導人正在努力想出一套新的公眾採購系統。

in the struggle to produce a new public procurement system

我們的網站是jcc.org.tt，而且我們這些領導人正在努力想出一套新的公開採購系統來顯示公眾的錢是如何運作的。

about how public money is transacted.

我們的網站是jcc.org.tt，而且我們這些領導人正在努力想出一套新的公開採購系統來顯示公眾的錢是如何運作的。

So those of you interested in finding out more about it,

如果你有興趣知道更多、想加入我們， 或者是想連署我們的訴求，請著手去做吧。

or joining us or signing up on any of our petitions, please get involved.

如果你有興趣知道更多、想加入我們， 或者是想連署我們的訴求，請著手去做吧。

But I'm going to segue to another thing that relates,

我想轉到一另外一個相關的話題， 因為我個人進行了一個超過三年半的活動。

because one of my private campaigns I've been conducting

我想轉到一另外一個相關的話題， 因為我個人進行了一個超過三年半的活動。

for over three and a half years

這個活動是為了CL Financial的紓困透明化和問責制度。

is for transparency and accountability

這個活動是為了CL Financial的紓困透明化和問責制度。

around the bailout of CL Financial.

這個活動是為了CL Financial的紓困透明化和問責制度。

CL Financial is the Caribbean's largest ever conglomerate, okay?

CL Financial是加勒比海有史以來 最大最牢不可破的金融保險公司，好嗎？

And without getting into all of the details,

簡單的來說，據說它倒了--我用字很謹慎-- 據說它在09年1月的時候倒了，

it is said to have collapsed — I'm using my words very carefully —

簡單的來說，據說它倒了--我用字很謹慎-- 據說它在09年1月的時候倒了，

it's said to have collapsed in January of '09,

簡單的來說，據說它倒了--我用字很謹慎-- 據說它在09年1月的時候倒了，

which is just coming up to nearly four years.

才快要四年前而已。

In an unprecedented fit of generosity --

史無前例的慷慨行為--而你必須懷疑這些人--

and you have to be very suspicious about these people --

史無前例的慷慨行為--而你必須懷疑這些人--

in an unprecedented — and I'm using that word carefully —

史無前例的慷慨行為--我用字非常謹慎--

unprecedented fit of generosity, the government of the day

史無前例的慷慨行為--政府簽訂、立了書面承諾，替所有債權人還債。

signed, made a written commitment, to repay all of the creditors.

史無前例的慷慨行為--政府簽訂、立了書面承諾，替所有債權人還債。

And I can tell you without fear of contradiction

我能大膽地告訴你，這種事情從來沒在這個星球上其他地方發生過。

that hasn't happened anywhere else on the planet.

我能大膽地告訴你，這種事情從來沒在這個星球上其他地方發生過。

Let's understand, because we lack context.

因為我們不知道背景，所以我們要去了解它。

People are telling us it's just like Wall Street. It's not just like Wall Street.

有人告訴我們這就像是在華爾街。這不像是在華爾街。

Trinidad and Tobago is like a place with different laws of physics or biology or something.

千里達和托巴哥就像是一個擁有不同物理或是生物學或其他定律的地方。

It's not just like anywhere. (Applause)

完全不像其他地方。(掌聲)

It's not just like anywhere. It's not just like anywhere.

完全不像其他地方。完全不像其他地方。

Here is here, and out there is out there. Okay?

這裡就是這裡，其他地方就是其他地方。好嗎？

I'm serious now.

我是認真的。

Listen. They've had bailouts on Wall Street.

聽著，紓困在華爾街發生過。

They've had bailouts in London.

紓困在倫敦發生過。