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  • So I understand that this meeting was planned,

    譯者: Chih-Yuan Jen (任致遠) 審譯者: Shelley Krishna Tsang

  • and the slogan was From Was to Still.

    我知道這場講座是活動的一部分

  • And I am illustrating Still.

    活動標語是「從『曾經』到『延續』」

  • Which, of course, I am not agreeing with because,

    而我是「延續」的長青代表

  • although I am 94, I am not still working.

    當然,我並不同意這個題目

  • And anybody who asks me, "Are you still doing this or that?"

    雖然我已經94歲了,不表示我是「繼續」工作

  • I don't answer because I'm not doing things still, I'm doing it like I always did.

    如果有人問我「你還繼續工作嗎?」

  • I still have -- or did I use the word still? I didn't mean that.

    我並不回答,因為我並不是「延續」我以前做的事,而是我就和以前的我一樣

  • (Laughter)

    我還繼續 -- 我剛剛是用了「繼續」這個詞嗎? 我不是這個意思

  • I have my file which is called To Do. I have my plans.

    (笑聲)

  • I have my clients. I am doing my work like I always did.

    我有我待辦的任務,我有我的計畫

  • So this takes care of my age.

    我有我的客戶。我一如往常地做這份工作。

  • I want to show you my work so you know what I am doing and why I am here.

    這讓我能像以前一樣充滿活力

  • This was about 1925.

    我將呈現我的作品,讓你們了解我的工作以及我到這裡分享的原因

  • All of these things were made during the last 75 years.

    這是發表於1925年

  • (Laughter)

    這些作品都是發表於...過去75年

  • (Applause)

    (笑聲)

  • But, of course, I'm working since 25,

    (掌聲)

  • doing more or less what you see here. This is Castleton China.

    不過當然,我從25歲就開始設計

  • This was an exhibition at the Museum of Modern Art.

    所做的差不多如你們這裡所見到的。這是卡斯爾頓瓷器

  • This is now for sale at the Metropolitan Museum.

    它曾經是現代藝術博物館的展覽品

  • This is still at the Metropolitan Museum now for sale.

    現在則陳列在大都會藝術博物館販售

  • This is a portrait of my daughter and myself.

    它現在還在那裡待價而沽

  • (Applause)

    這是仿擬女兒和我的模樣

  • These were just some of the things I've made.

    (掌聲)

  • I made hundreds of them for the last 75 years.

    這些只是我的作品中的一部分

  • I call myself a maker of things.

    在過去75年,我創作了上百個作品

  • I don't call myself an industrial designer because I'm other things.

    我稱自己為這些作品的「創作者」

  • Industrial designers want to make novel things.

    我不會稱自己為「工藝設計師」,因為我不太一樣

  • Novelty is a concept of commerce, not an aesthetic concept.

    工藝設計師想要做出新奇的東西

  • The industrial design magazine, I believe, is called "Innovation."

    「新奇」是商業的概念,而不是美學的概念

  • Innovation is not part of the aim of my work.

    有本工藝設計的雜誌,我記得是叫作「創新」

  • Well, makers of things: they make things more beautiful, more elegant,

    但創新並非我設計的目的

  • more comfortable than just the craftsmen do.

    所謂創作者,相較於那些工匠的作品,他們創作的東西更漂亮

  • I have so much to say. I have to think what I am going to say.

    更優雅、更舒適

  • Well, to describe our profession otherwise,

    我有好多話想說。我必須要想想我現在要說什麼

  • we are actually concerned with the playful search for beauty.

    換個方式描述我們的專業

  • That means the playful search for beauty was called the first activity of Man.

    我們實際上關心的是,對於美麗事物的玩樂探索

  • Sarah Smith, who was a mathematics professor at MIT, wrote,

    這意味著,對美的玩樂探索,即是人類發展的第一個活動

  • "The playful search for beauty was Man's first activity --

    Sarah Smith,一位麻省理工的數學教授,寫道

  • that all useful qualities and all material qualities

    「人類的第一個活動,就是對於美麗事物的玩耍探索 --

  • were developed from the playful search for beauty."

    任何實用的價值和任何物質的價值

  • These are tiles. The word, "playful" is a necessary aspect of our work

    都是源自於此。」

  • because, actually, one of our problems is that we have to make,

    這些就是設計的基石。這個字,「玩」,是我們這行的必備

  • produce, lovely things throughout all of life, and this for me is now 75 years.

    因為,我們最大的挑戰就是我們必須

  • So how can you, without drying up,

    創作出討人喜愛的東西,費盡畢生心力。而對我來說,「畢生」已經是75年了

  • make things with the same pleasure, as a gift to others, for so long?

    所以你如何才能避免創意枯竭

  • The playful is therefore an important part of our quality as designer.

    源源不絕地用同樣的熱情創作,每次都像是給心儀的人禮物般,永不疲倦?

  • Let me tell you some about my life.

    所以,玩心是設計者素質高下的要素

  • As I said, I started to do these things 75 years ago.

    我來談談我的人生吧

  • My first exhibition in the United States

    如同我剛剛所說的,我已經從業75年

  • was at the Sesquicentennial exhibition in 1926 --

    我在美國第一次有作品展出

  • that the Hungarian government sent one of my hand-drawn pieces as part of the exhibit.

    是1926年,美國獨立150周年特展 --

  • My work actually took me through many countries,

    匈牙利政府提供了一件我的手繪作品參展

  • and showed me a great part of the world.

    我的作品帶領我環遊各國

  • This is not that they took me -- the work didn't take me --

    讓我見識世界

  • I made the things particularly because I wanted to use them to see the world.

    這不是指它們真的帶領我 -- 我的作品並沒有「帶著」我 --

  • I was incredibly curious to see the world, and I made all these things,

    我創作這些作品,是因為我希望透過它們看看世界

  • which then finally did take me to see many countries and many cultures.

    我對世界充滿好奇,於是我做出這些作品

  • I started as an apprentice to a Hungarian craftsman,

    它們也真的引領我去認識許多國家和文化

  • and this taught me what the guild system was in Middle Ages.

    我剛入行時,是拜一位匈牙利師傅為師

  • The guild system: that means when I was an apprentice,

    這讓我領略到,中世紀時手工業的行規

  • I had to apprentice myself in order to become a pottery master.

    行規指的是,當我還是個學徒

  • In my shop where I studied, or learned, there was a traditional hierarchy

    我必須拜師學藝,以成為一個陶器師傅

  • of master, journeyman and learned worker, and apprentice,

    在我受訓求學的工房,有著傳統的師徒階級制

  • and I worked as the apprentice.

    分作師傅、資深工藝師、學長和學徒

  • The work as an apprentice was very primitive.

    而我當時還只是個學徒

  • That means I had to actually learn every aspect of making pottery by hand.

    一個學徒要做的事情是很原始粗重的

  • We mashed the clay with our feet when it came from the hillside.

    意思是,我必須親手操作每一個製作陶器的流程

  • After that, it had to be kneaded. It had to then go in, kind of, a mangle.

    我們用的黏土來自山上,先經過腳踩

  • And then finally it was prepared for the throwing.

    接著揉捏,然後經過壓榨機處理

  • And there I really worked as an apprentice.

    最後就是拋摔

  • My master took me to set ovens

    這些就是我作為學徒所要做的事

  • because this was part of oven-making, oven-setting, in the time.

    我的師父還會領我去搭建窯爐

  • And finally, I had received a document

    當時這是學徒一定要做的

  • that I had accomplished my apprenticeship successfully,

    最後,我領到一份證書

  • that I had behaved morally, and this document was given to me

    證明我已順利完成我的學徒訓練

  • by the Guild of Roof-Coverers, Rail-Diggers, Oven-Setters,

    並學習不倦、尊師重道,就可以得到這份證書

  • Chimney Sweeps and Potters.

    授予我證書的權威代表,包括鋪設屋頂的工人、鐵路工人、搭建烤爐的工人

  • (Laughter)

    清理煙囪的工人,以及燒陶師傅

  • I also got at the time a workbook which explained my rights

    (笑聲)

  • and my working conditions, and I still have that workbook.

    我當時還收到一本手冊,說明學徒的權利

  • First I set up a shop in my own garden,

    以及工作待遇。這本手冊,直到現在我都還留著

  • and made pottery which I sold on the marketplace in Budapest.

    學徒畢業後,我先在自己的庭院裡設立一個工作室

  • And there I was sitting, and my then-boyfriend --

    然後在布達佩斯販售我的陶藝作品

  • I didn't mean it was a boyfriend like it is meant today --

    我坐在那裡,而我當時的男友 --

  • but my boyfriend and I sat at the market and sold the pots.

    我所說的男友,並不是今天大家所講的那種「男友」 --

  • My mother thought that this was not very proper,

    我的男友和我一起坐在市場攤位,販售陶器

  • so she sat with us to add propriety to this activity.

    我母親認為這不太妥當

  • (Laughter)

    所以她也來和我們坐在一起,讓這一切「妥當」一點

  • However, after a while there was a new factory being built in Budapest,

    (笑聲)

  • a pottery factory, a large one.

    好景不常,沒多久布達佩斯就出現了一座新的工廠

  • And I visited it with several ladies, and asked all sorts of questions of the director.

    一座陶器工廠,好大一座

  • Then the director asked me, why do you ask all these questions?

    我和幾個女孩子一起去參觀,纏著工廠的主任問個不停

  • I said, I also have a pottery.

    那個主任就反問我,為什麼對這些事情這麼好奇?

  • So he asked me, could he please visit me, and then finally he did,

    我回答,因為我也有座工房

  • and explained to me that what I did now in my shop was an anachronism,

    他詢問我是否能拜訪我的工作室,他也真的來了

  • that the industrial revolution had broken out,

    並且向我解釋,說像我這樣的工作模式已經落伍了

  • and that I rather should join the factory.

    工業時代已經來臨

  • There he made an art department for me where I worked for several months.

    我應該要加入工廠的行列

  • However, everybody in the factory spent his time at the art department.

    於是他為我創立了一個藝術部門,我也在那裡工作了幾個月

  • The director there said there were several women casting

    然而,工廠內的每個人都開始花時間在藝術組的任務上

  • and producing my designs now in molds, and this was sold also to America.

    主任說,有幾個女工在...鑄造

  • I remember that it was quite successful.

    鑄模來製造我的設計作品,並銷到美國

  • However, the director, the chemist, model maker -- everybody --

    我記得在當時還蠻成功的

  • concerned himself much more with the art department --

    可是,無論是主任、化學研究員、製模工人等 -- 工廠裡的每個人 --

  • that means, with my work -- than making toilets,

    都以為自己是藝術組的一員 --

  • so finally they got a letter from the center, from the bank who owned the factory,

    以為我設計的作品也是他們的作品 -- 而自己不再是製造馬桶的成員

  • saying, make toilet-setting behind the art department, and that was my end.

    後來他們就收到總部寄來的消息,是擁有公司所有權的銀行寄發的

  • So this gave me the possibility because now I was a journeyman,

    內容說到,把藝術組歸到馬桶裝設組的管理麾下,於是這也成為我這份工作的句點。

  • and journeymen also take their satchel and go to see the world.

    這樣讓我在成為資深工藝師之後,

  • So as a journeyman, I put an ad into the paper that I had studied,

    有機會帶著行囊去巡訪世界。

  • that I was a down-to-earth potter's journeyman

    我在報上登了一則廣告,簡介我的資深工藝師身分、學歷

  • and I was looking for a job as a journeyman.

    說明我是一個穩紮穩打的陶藝師

  • And I got several answers, and I accepted the one

    希望尋找一份資深工藝師的職務

  • which was farthest from home and practically, I thought, halfway to America.

    我得到一些回音,並且接受了其中一個工作

  • And that was in Hamburg.

    它的位置距離我家最遠,而且在我心目中,那幾乎是從家裡到美國路途的一半

  • Then I first took this job in Hamburg, at an art pottery

    它位於德國漢堡

  • where everything was done on the wheel,

    我在這間位於漢堡的陶藝工房工作

  • and so I worked in a shop where there were several potters.

    在這裡,所有的作品都是在轆轤上操作

  • And the first day, I was coming to take my place at the turntable --

    我與其他幾個工藝師一起工作

  • there were three or four turntables -- and one of them, behind where I was sitting,

    上工第一天,我正要選擇要使用的轆轤 --

  • was a hunchback, a deaf-mute hunchback, who smelled very bad.

    總共大概有三到四個 --發現其中一個陶藝師在我身後

  • So I doused him in cologne every day, which he thought was very nice,

    他是個駝子,既聾又啞,還散發濃濃臭味

  • and therefore he brought bread and butter every day,

    於是我每天朝他噴灑古龍水,他也感到很開心

  • which I had to eat out of courtesy.

    作為回報,他每天買了麵包和奶油來

  • The first day I came to work in this shop

    我也很禮貌地吃了

  • there was on my wheel a surprise for me.

    我工作的第一天

  • My colleagues had thoughtfully put on the wheel where I was supposed to work

    有個驚喜在我的轤轆上等著我

  • a very nicely modeled natural man's organs.

    我的同事們在我要用來工作的轤轆上,貼心地擺上

  • (Laughter)

    一個非常逼真的陽具模型

  • After I brushed them off with a hand motion, they were very --

    (笑聲)

  • I finally was now accepted, and worked there for some six months.

    在我手一揮把它拍開後,他們感到非常 --

  • This was my first job.

    我終於被他們接納,在那裡工作了約六個月

  • If I go on like this, you will be here till midnight.

    這就是我的第一份工作

  • (Laughter)

    如果我繼續用這樣的進度講故事,你們到半夜都走不了

  • (Applause)

    (笑聲)

  • So I will try speed it up a little

    (掌聲)

  • (Laughter)

    所以我會試著加快一點

  • Moderator: Eva, we have about five minutes.

    (笑聲)

  • (Laughter)

    主持人:Eva,我們大概只剩五分鐘

  • Eva Zeisel: Are you sure?

    (笑聲)

  • Moderator: Yes, I am sure.

    Eva Zeisel: 你是認真的嗎?

  • EZ: Well, if you are sure,

    主持人:對,我很確定

  • I have to tell you that within five minutes I will talk very fast.

    EZ:好吧,如果你確定的話

  • And actually, my work took me to many countries

    我必須告訴你們,在接下來的五分鐘我會講得非常快

  • because I used my work to fill my curiosity.

    事實上,我的工作讓我造訪了許多國家

  • And among other things, other countries I worked, was in the Soviet Union,

    我藉由工作滿足我的好奇心

  • where I worked from '32 to '37 -- actually, to '36.

    在這些作品、這些旅居過的國家中,我曾在蘇聯工作

  • I was finally there, although I had nothing to do -- I was a foreign expert.

    從1932到1937年 -- 應該是1936年

  • I became art director of the china and glass industry,

    我終於到了蘇聯,雖然我也沒有特殊的期待或目的 -- 我算是外國專家

  • and eventually under Stalin's purges -- at the beginning of Stalin's purges,

    在那裡擔任陶瓷和玻璃工業的藝術總監

  • I didn't know that hundreds of thousands of innocent people were arrested.

    後來在史達林的整肅之下 -- 史達林剛開始實施整肅運動時

  • So I was arrested quite early in Stalin's purges,

    我並不知道成千上萬的無辜民眾被銬上手撩

  • and spent 16 months in a Russian prison.

    所以在大整肅期間,我是最早被逮捕的其中一人

  • The accusation was that I had successfully prepared an Attentat on Stalin's life.

    在俄國監獄蹲了16個月

  • This was a very dangerous accusation.

    我的罪名是,預謀行刺史達林

  • And if this is the end of my five minutes, I want to tell you that

    這是很嚴重的指控

  • I actually did survive, which was a surprise.

    如果這是我演講的最後5分鐘,我想要分享這件事

  • But since I survived and I'm here,

    我很訝異自己後來竟大難不死

  • and since this is the end of the five minutes, I will --

    不過既然我度過這個難關,來到了這裡

  • Moderator: Tell me when your last trip to Russia was.

    既然這是最後五分鐘,我要 --

  • Weren't you there recently?

    主持人:請告訴我們妳最近一次到俄國是什麼時候