(Laughter)

我本來以為那裡會有一個講臺的，所以現在我有點害怕了。

Chris asked me to tell again how we found the structure of DNA.

（笑聲）

And since, you know, I follow his orders, I'll do it.

克里斯邀請我再講一次我們破解 DNA 結構的經過。

But it slightly bores me.

因為我遵照他的指示，所以我就來了。

(Laughter)

但這令我感到有些無趣。

And, you know, I wrote a book. So I'll say something --

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

你知道的，我已經寫了一本關於這個發現的書。所以我將說說...

-- I'll say a little about, you know, how the discovery was made,

（笑聲）

and why Francis and I found it.

我將簡單提一下那次發現的經過，

And then, I hope maybe I have at least five minutes to say

以及令法蘭西斯與我做出這項發現的原因。

what makes me tick now.

然後我希望至少能有五分鐘的剩餘時間，

In back of me is a picture of me when I was 17.

讓我談談我現在的興趣所在。

I was at the University of Chicago, in my third year,

我身後是一張我 17 歲時的照片。

and I was in my third year because the University of Chicago

我那時在芝加哥大學，讀大三。

let you in after two years of high school.

我之所以能在 17 歲時就讀大三，是因為芝加哥大學

So you -- it was fun to get away from high school -- (Laughter) --

在我讀了兩年高中之後就錄取我了。

because I was very small, and I was no good in sports,

擺脫高中生活對我來說樂趣無窮，

or anything like that.

因為我長得很矮小，又不擅長體育，

But I should say that my background -- my father was, you know,

或任何跟體能有關的特長。

raised to be an Episcopalian and Republican,

但我得提一下我的生長背景：我的父親從小到大

but after one year of college, he became an atheist and a Democrat.

都是一名聖公會教徒和共和黨員。

(Laughter)

結果才上了一年大學，他變成了一名民主黨員與無神論者。

And my mother was Irish Catholic,

（笑聲）

and -- but she didn't take religion too seriously.

我母親是愛爾蘭天主教徒，

And by the age of 11, I was no longer going to Sunday Mass,

但她沒把宗教看得很重。

and going on birdwatching walks with my father.

所以 11 歲那年開始，我就不再去做禮拜了，

So early on, I heard of Charles Darwin.

反而是跟我的父親去到處賞鳥。

I guess, you know, he was the big hero.

因此我很早就聽說過達爾文，

And, you know, you understand life as it now exists through evolution.

我想，他是我心中的大英雄。

And at the University of Chicago I was a zoology major,

你們也都知道現今的生命是通過漫長的演化而來的。

and thought I would end up, you know, if I was bright enough,

而我當時在芝加哥大學又是主修動物學，

maybe getting a Ph.D. from Cornell in ornithology.

所以我就想，要是我夠聰明的話，

Then, in the Chicago paper, there was a review of a book

搞不好最後能從康乃爾大學拿個鳥類學博士學位。

called "What is Life?" by the great physicist, Schrodinger.

恰巧當時在芝加哥的報紙上有一篇書評，

And that, of course, had been a question I wanted to know.

是由偉大的物理學家薛丁格寫的一本叫做《何謂生命？》的書。

You know, Darwin explained life after it got started,

當然了，那也是我一直都在探索的一個問題。

but what was the essence of life?

達爾文是解釋了生命的演變沒錯，

And Schrodinger said the essence was information

但生命的本質到底是什麼呢？

present in our chromosomes, and it had to be present

薛丁格認為這本質就是資訊，

on a molecule. I'd never really thought of molecules before.

我們染色體裡的資訊，而且這些資訊必須由分子來承載。

You know chromosomes, but this was a molecule,

我之前從沒認真思考過分子的可能，

and somehow all the information was probably present

大家都聽過染色體，但我們現在是在說一個分子，

in some digital form. And there was the big question

而且不知怎地，所有資訊都可能以數位的形式

of, how did you copy the information?

儲存在這分子中。然後，問題就來了，

So that was the book. And so, from that moment on,

你要怎麼複製這些資訊呢？

I wanted to be a geneticist --

那本書就是討論這些問題。所以從那時起，

understand the gene and, through that, understand life.

我就立志要成為一名遺傳學家，

So I had, you know, a hero at a distance.

通過了解基因來認識生命。

It wasn't a baseball player; it was Linus Pauling.

因此，我有了仰慕的偶像。

And so I applied to Caltech and they turned me down.

不是什麼棒球明星，而是化學家鮑林。

(Laughter)

所以我就申請進入加州理工學院，然後被拒絕了。

So I went to Indiana,

（笑聲）

which was actually as good as Caltech in genetics,

因此我去了印第安納大學，

and besides, they had a really good basketball team. (Laughter)

其實那裡的遺傳學研究和加州理工學院一樣好，

So I had a really quite happy life at Indiana.

除此以外，他們有個非常棒的籃球隊。

And it was at Indiana I got the impression

所以我在那裡的生活也非常愉快。

that, you know, the gene was likely to be DNA.

而且正是在印第安納的時候，我開始覺得

And so when I got my Ph.D., I should go and search for DNA.

DNA 很有可能就是我們的基因。

So I first went to Copenhagen because I thought, well,

因此等我拿到博士學位後，我應該去研究 DNA。

maybe I could become a biochemist,

哥本哈根成了我的第一站，因為我覺得

but I discovered biochemistry was very boring.

也許我可以成為一個生化學家。

It wasn't going anywhere toward, you know, saying what the gene was;

但後來我發現生化真的是相當無趣。

it was just nuclear science. And oh, that's the book, little book.

生化研究對於了解基因的本質完全無關，

You can read it in about two hours.

它就好像是另一種原子科學。哦，原子科學就是我之前提到的那本書，

And -- but then I went to a meeting in Italy.

不長，兩個小時就可以讀完。

And there was an unexpected speaker who wasn't on the program,

但我之後在義大利參加一個會議的時候，

and he talked about DNA.

遇到了一個原本不在節目單上的講者，

And this was Maurice Wilkins. He was trained as a physicist,

他演講的主題恰好是 DNA。

and after the war he wanted to do biophysics, and he picked DNA

那是莫里斯‧威爾金斯，物理學家出身。

because DNA had been determined at the Rockefeller Institute

二戰後他決定從事生物物理研究，而 DNA 正是他的研究對象，

to possibly be the genetic molecules on the chromosomes.

因為當時洛克菲勒研究所已經發現

Most people believed it was proteins.

染色體上的遺傳物質很有可能就是 DNA，

But Wilkins, you know, thought DNA was the best bet,

但多數人認為應該是蛋白質。

and he showed this x-ray photograph.

不過威爾金斯還是認為 DNA 才最有可能是遺傳物質，

Sort of crystalline. So DNA had a structure,

並且展示了這張 X 光照片。

even though it owed it to probably different molecules

有點像個結晶體。所以DNA是有這樣的一個結構，

carrying different sets of instructions.

儘管說不同的分子

So there was something universal about the DNA molecule.

攜帶著不同的指令，

So I wanted to work with him, but he didn't want a former birdwatcher,

但這些 DNA 分子具有某種一致性。

and I ended up in Cambridge, England.

所以我當時就想跟他合作，但他並不需要一個退休鳥類觀察家。

So I went to Cambridge,

所以我到了英國劍橋。

because it was really the best place in the world then

我之所以會去劍橋，

for x-ray crystallography. And x-ray crystallography is now a subject

是因為那裡是當時研究射線晶體學的最好地方。

in, you know, chemistry departments.

現在的射線晶體學，

I mean, in those days it was the domain of the physicists.

通常是化學系中的一個研究主題。

So the best place for x-ray crystallography

不過在當時，那可是物理學家的天下。

was at the Cavendish Laboratory at Cambridge.

所以研究射線晶體學最好的地方

And there I met Francis Crick.

是劍橋的卡文迪許實驗室。

I went there without knowing him. He was 35. I was 23.

而我就是在那遇見了法蘭西斯‧克立克。

And within a day, we had decided that

當時我並不認識他。他當年 35 歲，我 23 歲。

maybe we could take a shortcut to finding the structure of DNA.

不過一天之內，我們就決定

Not solve it like, you know, in rigorous fashion, but build a model,

也許我們可以通過一條捷徑來破解 DNA 的結構。

an electro-model, using some coordinates of, you know,

並不是以一般嚴謹死板的方法來解答這個問題，而是直接建造一個結構模型。

length, all that sort of stuff from x-ray photographs.

用X光照片裡的那些長度坐標什麼的

But just ask what the molecule -- how should it fold up?

來建造電子模型。

And the reason for doing so, at the center of this photograph,

直接思考這個分子應該怎麼折疊？

is Linus Pauling. About six months before, he proposed

為什麼我們會想走捷徑？這個照片中間的那位

the alpha helical structure for proteins. And in doing so,

就是鮑林。大概六個月前，他已經提出了

he banished the man out on the right,

蛋白質的阿爾法螺旋結構。也正因此，

Sir Lawrence Bragg, who was the Cavendish professor.

他徹底擊垮了站在他右邊的勞倫斯‧布拉格爵士。

This is a photograph several years later,

布拉格當時是卡文迪許實驗室的教授。

when Bragg had cause to smile.

這張照片是幾年後拍的，

He certainly wasn't smiling when I got there,

布拉格只是強顏歡笑。

because he was somewhat humiliated by Pauling getting the alpha helix,

我剛到那裡的時候，他可是完全笑不出來。

and the Cambridge people failing because they weren't chemists.

因為他覺得讓鮑林搶先發表阿爾法螺旋結構讓他丟臉了，

And certainly, neither Crick or I were chemists,

劍橋人輸在他們並不是化學家。

so we tried to build a model. And he knew, Francis knew Wilkins.

當然了，我和克立克也不是化學家。

So Wilkins said he thought it was the helix.

所以我們才想要直接搭建模型。而布拉格知道法蘭西斯與威爾金斯是舊識。

X-ray diagram, he thought was comparable with the helix.

威爾金斯當時覺得 DNA 應該是個螺旋結構，

So we built a three-stranded model.

他覺得那個 X 光圖片看上去像是個螺旋。

The people from London came up.

所以我們建了個三股螺旋結構。

Wilkins and this collaborator, or possible collaborator,

倫敦的那幫人就過來看，

Rosalind Franklin, came up and sort of laughed at our model.

威爾金斯和他（可能）的合作夥伴羅莎琳‧富蘭克林，

They said it was lousy, and it was.

過來看過我們的模型後，對它有點嗤之以鼻。

So we were told to build no more models; we were incompetent.

他們覺得我們的模型爛透了，我也承認。

(Laughter)

他們告訴我們不要再造模型了，我們沒這個能力。

And so we didn't build any models,

（笑聲）

and Francis sort of continued to work on proteins.

於是乎，我們就不再造模型了。

And basically, I did nothing. And -- except read.

法蘭西斯重拾蛋白質的研究。

You know, basically, reading is a good thing; you get facts.

我則是除了讀書以外，什麼都沒做。

And we kept telling the people in London

要知道讀書是件好事，你可以增長知識。

that Linus Pauling's going to move on to DNA.

我們當時就一直告訴倫敦的那些人，

If DNA is that important, Linus will know it.

鮑林要著手研究 DNA 了。

He'll build a model, and then we're going to be scooped.

如果 DNA 真的那麼重要的話，鮑林會發現什麼的。

And, in fact, he'd written the people in London:

他肯定會建造一個模型，到時候我們一定會輸的。

Could he see their x-ray photograph?

事實上，他的確是給倫敦的人寫了封信，

And they had the wisdom to say "no." So he didn't have it.

他想看看他們的 X 光照片。

But there was ones in the literature.

還好他們有拒絕的智慧。因此他沒看到那張照片。

Actually, Linus didn't look at them that carefully.

不過當時各種文獻中都有類似的照片，

But about, oh, 15 months after I got to Cambridge,

事實上鮑林也沒有仔細地去研究那些照片。

a rumor began to appear from Linus Pauling's son,

可是在我到了劍橋 15 個月後，

who was in Cambridge, that his father was now working on DNA.

鮑林在劍橋的兒子開始散播傳聞，

And so, one day Peter came in and he said he was Peter Pauling,

說他的爸爸正在研究 DNA。

and he gave me a copy of his father's manuscripts.

結果有一天彼得找到我，他說他是彼得‧鮑林，

And boy, I was scared because I thought, you know, we may be scooped.

然後他就給了我一份他老爸論文初稿的副本。

I have nothing to do, no qualifications for anything.

我當時就嚇傻了，我以為他比我們搶先一步。

(Laughter)

我沒有了目標，一無是處的。這下子可完了。

And so there was the paper, and he proposed a three-stranded structure.

（笑聲）

And I read it, and it was just -- it was crap.

這就是那篇論文，他在裡面提出了一個三股的結構，

(Laughter)

我讀完之後覺得這篇論文簡直就是垃圾。

So this was, you know, unexpected from the world's --

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

對於他這位世界知名的學者來說，有失水準。

-- and so, it was held together by hydrogen bonds

（笑聲）

between phosphate groups.

他認為 DNA 是通過磷酸基之間的氫鍵

Well, if the peak pH that cells have is around seven,

所組合起來的。

those hydrogen bonds couldn't exist.

可是，如果細胞中的 pH 值大概是在 7 左右的話，

We rushed over to the chemistry department and said,

那些氫鍵根本就無法存在嘛。

"Could Pauling be right?" And Alex Hust said, "No." So we were happy.

我們直奔化學系，問那裡的人：「鮑林有可能是正確的嗎？」

(Laughter)

亞歷克斯回答說：「沒可能！」我們這下可樂壞了。

And, you know, we were still in the game, but we were frightened

（笑聲）

that somebody at Caltech would tell Linus that he was wrong.

我們還是有機會的，不過我們也是有點擔心。

And so Bragg said, "Build models."

擔心加州工學院的那些人會告訴鮑林他搞錯了。

And a month after we got the Pauling manuscript --

於是布拉格就說：「我們得造模型。」

I should say I took the manuscript to London, and showed the people.

在我們收到鮑林初稿的一個月後，

Well, I said, Linus was wrong and that we're still in the game

我該提一下，我把初稿帶到了倫敦，給那裡的人看過。

and that they should immediately start building models.

我跟他們說鮑林錯了，我們還有機會。

But Wilkins said "no." Rosalind Franklin was leaving in about two months,

因此他們應該馬上開始建造模型。

and after she left he would start building models.

但威爾金斯拒絕了。而羅莎琳再兩個月左右就要離開了，

And so I came back with that news to Cambridge,

等她走後，他就會開始造模型。

and Bragg said, "Build models."

沒辦法，我只能把消息如實地傳達給劍橋，

Well, of course, I wanted to build models.

而布拉格還是說：「造—模—型」

And there's a picture of Rosalind. She really, you know,

當然了，我是一直都想要建造模型的。

in one sense she was a chemist,

這是羅莎琳的照片。她其實，怎麼說呢，

but really she would have been trained --

就某個程度上來說，是個化學家。

she didn't know any organic chemistry or quantum chemistry.

但其實，她只是...

She was a crystallographer.

她對有機化學或量子化學一竅不通。

And I think part of the reason she didn't want to build models

她只是一個結晶學家。

was, she wasn't a chemist, whereas Pauling was a chemist.

而且我覺得她不想建造模型的一部分原因

And so Crick and I, you know, started building models,

就是因為她不是化學家，而鮑林則是位十足的化學家。

and I'd learned a little chemistry, but not enough.

於是克立克和我就開始建造模型。

Well, we got the answer on the 28th February '53.

我學過一點化學，但不夠用。

And it was because of a rule, which, to me, is a very good rule:

不管怎樣，我們在 1953 年的 2 月 28 日終於破解了 DNA 的謎團。

Never be the brightest person in a room, and we weren't.

這一切都是因為我始終堅信的一條法則：

We weren't the best chemists in the room.

永遠別做最聰明的人，我們也的確不是。

I went in and showed them a pairing I'd done,

我們不是那裡最優秀的化學家。

and Jerry Donohue -- he was a chemist -- he said, it's wrong.

我有一次把我剛剛做好的分子配對圖給那些化學家們看，

You've got -- the hydrogen atoms are in the wrong place.

唐納修 — 一名化學家 — 看了之後就說：「你畫錯了。

I just put them down like they were in the books.

你把氫原子放錯地方了。」

He said they were wrong.

我是按照書裡面畫的。

So the next day, you know, after I thought, "Well, he might be right."

他說那書上畫錯了。

So I changed the locations, and then we found the base pairing,

於是隔天，我想了想：「搞不好他是對的。」

and Francis immediately said the chains run in absolute directions.

所以我更改了氫原子的位置，然後我們就發現了鹼基配對的規則，

And we knew we were right.

而法蘭西斯也立即意識到，雙螺旋鏈可以此方式無限延伸。

So it was a pretty, you know, it all happened in about two hours.

我們當時就知道我們肯定是對的。

From nothing to thing.

這真是太美了，我是說，而這一切就發生在兩個小時間。

And we knew it was big because, you know, if you just put A next to T

從無到有。

and G next to C, you have a copying mechanism.

我們也知道這是個重大的發現，因為如果你把 A 鹼基和 T 鹼基放在一起，

So we saw how genetic information is carried.

G 和 C 放在一起，你就可以實現 DNA 的複製了。

It's the order of the four bases.

所以我們了解了遺傳資訊是如何被儲存的。

So in a sense, it is a sort of digital-type information.

就是利用這 4 個鹼基的排列組合。

And you copy it by going from strand-separating.

所以說，這也算得上是一種數位化的資訊。

So, you know, if it didn't work this way, you might as well believe it,

把這螺旋的兩股分開，就可以開始複製了。

because you didn't have any other scheme.

就算它不是這麼回事，我們也只能相信它是這麼回事，

(Laughter)

因為你也沒有什麼其他的選擇。

But that's not the way most scientists think.

（笑聲）

Most scientists are really rather dull.

但大多數的科學家都不是這麼想的，

They said, we won't think about it until we know it's right.

大多數的科學家都是相當呆板的。

But, you know, we thought, well, it's at least 95 percent right or 99 percent right.

他們認為，除非被證實是對的，不然他們是不會考慮的。

So think about it. The next five years,

但我們知道這理論至少是 95% 甚至是 99% 正確的。

there were essentially something like five references

所以想想看，在隨後的五年裡，

to our work in "Nature" -- none.

我們在《自然》雜誌中所提出的理論

And so we were left by ourselves,

只被引用了五次。

and trying to do the last part of the trio: how do you --

沒辦法，我們只能靠自己了。

what does this genetic information do?

而我們也只剩下一個待解決的問題—

It was pretty obvious that it provided the information

這些遺傳資訊到底是用來做什麼的呢？

to an RNA molecule, and then how do you go from RNA to protein?

很明顯地，它為 RNA 分子提供資訊，

For about three years we just -- I tried to solve the structure of RNA.

但這資訊又是怎樣從 RNA 傳達到蛋白質的呢？

It didn't yield. It didn't give good x-ray photographs.

我用了大概三年的時間，希望能破解 RNA 的結構，

I was decidedly unhappy; a girl didn't marry me.

但是卻一無所獲。RNA 的 X 光片毫無價值。

It was really, you know, sort of a shitty time.

我是相當得不開心。我愛的女人又不想嫁給我。

(Laughter)

那真是一段黑暗的時期。

So there's a picture of Francis and I before I met the girl,

（笑聲）

so I'm still looking happy.

這裡有一張我和法蘭西斯的照片，是在我遇到那個女人之前拍的，

(Laughter)

所以我看起來還很開心。

But there is what we did when we didn't know

（笑聲）

where to go forward: we formed a club and called it the RNA Tie Club.

當我們不知道下一步該怎麼走的時候，

George Gamow, also a great physicist, he designed the tie.

我們成立了一個俱樂部，稱作「RNA 領帶團」。

He was one of the members. The question was:

偉大的物理學家喬治‧伽莫夫負責設計領帶。

How do you go from a four-letter code

他也是我們的團員之一。我們探討的問題是：

to the 20-letter code of proteins?

由四個字母組成的 DNA 密碼

Feynman was a member, and Teller, and friends of Gamow.

是怎麼轉變成由 20 個字母組成的蛋白質密碼呢？